No regard...for the desire of women

Lisa

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we dont all state our opinions as fact. and most of us try to be consistant even with oir opinions.
Sure you do....just because you can get a website to agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it isn’t still an opinion you have. We can all get websites that agree with what we say.
 





justjess

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Sure you do....just because you can get a website to agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it isn’t still an opinion you have. We can all get websites that agree with what we say.
there are facts and then there are opinions lisa. i present facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

1 in 5 women are r*pe victims. fact supported by research.

muslim women are being abused by the burqa. opiniom suppprtef by nothing.

if you had multiple studies finding muslim women themselves feel this way it would atleast be a start. all you have, however, is YOUR feelings. and you are not a muslim woman or someone deeply involved in the community so your feeling is worthless.
 





Lisa

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there are facts and then there are opinions lisa. i present facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

1 in 5 women are r*pe victims. fact supported by research.

muslim women are being abused by the burqa. opiniom suppprtef by nothing.

if you had multiple studies finding muslim women themselves feel this way it would atleast be a start. all you have, however, is YOUR feelings. and you are not a muslim woman or someone deeply involved in the community so your feeling is worthless.
I don’t think my opinion is worthless..that’s just your opinion...but it must mean something to you, you’re always arguing with me, haha!

We might have multiple studies of women feeling that way if they weren’t scared to death for their lives..

Then there are biased facts and opinions..The opioid thing in another thread comes to mind.
 





justjess

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ive known numerous women who voluntarily put on the burqa. late life reverts. single no husbands.

you have no reason to believe women would lie anonympusly and confidentially. thats just your justification.

and when other women tell ypu the edicts abput women in christianity make them uncomfortable or led tp abuse in their own lives ypu discount them.. so not consistant. but you will never see that so whatever
 





Lisa

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ive known numerous women who voluntarily put on the burqa. late life reverts. single no husbands.

you have no reason to believe women would lie anonympusly and confidentially. thats just your justification.

and when other women tell ypu the edicts abput women in christianity make them uncomfortable or led tp abuse in their own lives ypu discount them.. so not consistant. but you will never see that so whatever
I think fear is a great motivator for keeping quiet. If you think your husband can find out your secret and confidential words, you aren’t gonna say anything. They are abused women.

That’s because you only bring them up to deflect what’s being done to muslim women. I already said that it’s wrong to treat women oppressively but I think muslim women are a big sign of not regarding the desire of women. Even their appearance is taken from them in a cloth prison.
 





justjess

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I think fear is a great motivator for keeping quiet. If you think your husband can find out your secret and confidential words, you aren’t gonna say anything. They are abused women.

That’s because you only bring them up to deflect what’s being done to muslim women. I already said that it’s wrong to treat women oppressively but I think muslim women are a big sign of not regarding the desire of women. Even their appearance is taken from them in a cloth prison.
i bring it up all the time lisa. im a feminist. im consistant with that. you cant condemn one faith for doing something to women that they all do. condemn them all. or none.

the burka is just one expression of a problem that goes way deeper and pervades all aspects of society and every religion. and im all for self determination.. if your cool with following biblical edicts on women i believe to be sexist thats yourr business. if muslim women are cool with muslim edicts i feel are sexist towards women thats their business. none of it should be legislated either way.. i wouldnt support legislation forcing you to work outside the home, that would be just as wrong as a religion telling you that you cant
 





Lisa

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none of it should be legislated either way.. i wouldnt support legislation forcing you to work outside the home, that would be just as wrong as a religion telling you that you cant
You’re back to that now :rolleyes: lol!
 





DevaWolf

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I think the muslims do more to demean and repress women, honestly and it starts with the burka and trying to erase them entirely.
And yes, I would say that any other group trying to repress women are also walking in the footsteps of the antichrist, trying to disregard the desire of women.
Being the 85th wife of the 'prophet' Warren Jeffs for example and not being allowed off his compound, is not worse or better than wearing a burqa and being the 4th wife of an Imam. At least the Imam is limited to 4 wives by the Quran. OK, one wears a burqa, the other isn't allowed off the premises of the prophet, but in my eyes they are exactly the same. There is no rational reason why Islam would be worse.
 





Lisa

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Never underestimate the power of concubinage as a cultural tour de force. Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines. I suspect, somewhat as a result, he wrote some rather good, erotic poetry, called the Song of Solomon, in the otherwise at times boring Bible. :cool:.
I was gonna answer..but I have you on ignore ;)
 





DesertRose

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Even their appearance is taken from them in a cloth prison.
It is very difficult to talk sense or come to an understanding with someone who is has a very simplistic sense of nuance but we can try.
Lisa do you know that the burqah or the conventional term niqab is not the standard of Islam?
There is no teaching that says the face veil is compulsory and we have already established that there are zero punishments in this life or the next for not wearing the veil in total.

In ancient times this was called purdah and it was practiced in Persia (present day Iran) and South Asia. It was cultural in that Hindu and Persian upper class women observed it while women from lower classes in most countries did not have this custom. It was the cultural custom of these areas of the world in ancient times before Islam.
Niqab for me is akin to Catholic priests/nuns taking the vow of chastity taken to please their lord. Extra and may appear unnecessary or extreme for the rest of the world but it is not the standard of all Catholics....niqab is an extra step taken by some women who want to please God.
Now as an American you should believe in the sovereignty of individuals, right?Therefore, It is their right to do so! Whether you and I agree or not is irrelevant. If a sister wants to go this extra mile to feel close to God that is her prerogative.

I actually have a friend who chose this for herself and she has a very lovely life, many friends, a warm spiritual relationship with God from what I can gather and a kind and loving husband. You do not know the lived experiences of this woman.
Do not get fixated with the illusions of your supposition and mind.

Edited:Correction You like to bring up Afghanistan. Someone brought up Afghamistan.
How horrible to use a war-torn society as an example.
If a society is war-torn the sense of well being and security is gone.
There are soldiers who r*pe at will, how fast would you wear that full veil if you were there?
When invasion, domination and r*pe become the norm what would you do?
As sister @manama said this was not the case before with Afghanistan before the great powers decided to intervene and create havoc.
It is easy to disdain the choices of others and pronounce judgement but you do not know their reasoning.
Have humility!
If God judged the way you do on the superficial and not intent I would despair for humanity.
May God Make us wiser! Ameen.
This is truly my last comment, God willing, I still think it is bait thread.
Interesting to see you get continually caught up in argumentation :p You have stamina! You can do it!:D
 





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Lisa

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Never underestimate the power of concubinage as a cultural tour de force. Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines. I suspect, somewhat as a result, he wrote some rather good, erotic poetry, called the Song of Solomon, in the otherwise at times boring Bible :cool:.
I never thought the Bible was boring..there always something to learn.

I don’t remember seeing where the Bible says to have many wives or concubines..but I can’t say the same about islam.
 





Lisa

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Interesting to see you get continually caught up in argumentation :p You have stamina! You can do it!:D
What can I say...everyone likes to talk to me, which is why I’m the superstar I am today....:D

You like to bring up Afghanistan
Do I, I don’t recall having brought up Afghanistan before.

I still think it is bait thread.
Not at all..but the islam part seems to be the main focus though I did talk about other things.

It is very difficult to talk sense or with come to an understanding with someone who is has a very simplistic sense of nuance but we can try.
You are so good to try...hopefully I will get it since this is your very last post on this thread. ;)

Lisa do you know that the burqah or the conventional term niqab is not the standard of Islam?
There is no teaching that says the face veil is compulsory and we have already established that there are zero punishments in this life or the next for wearing the veil in total.
That’s amazing because there’s a lot of pictures all over the internet of women wearing them.

In ancient times this was called purdah and it was practiced in Persia (present day Iran)
Interesting
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manama

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I don’t remember seeing where the Bible says to have many wives or concubines..but I can’t say the same about islam.
Neither does Islam. It only says that the limit is four and if you decide to have multiple wives and you aren't just to them or fulfill their rights, hell is waiting for you. It gives proper rules to follow if you decide to marry multiple people.

Christianity doesn't forbid marrying multiple women and i'm pretty sure it gives no limits. Atleast Islam is realistic and gives guidelines. Polygamous relationships have existed since ancient times and they exist now between people who aren't even religious. Pretending that they don't exist outside of Muslim communities is just plain ignorance.

Falling in love with more than one person is normal and not a sin. But most people pursue it as cheating. Islam tells us not to do that, to be transparent and if you want to pursue it, you can do so legally and rightfully with the consent of all parties involved.
 





justjess

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Neither does Islam. It only says that the limit is four and if you decide to have multiple wives and you aren't just to them or fulfill their rights, hell is waiting for you. It gives proper rules to follow if you decide to marry multiple people.

Christianity doesn't forbid marrying multiple women and i'm pretty sure it gives no limits. Atleast Islam is realistic and gives guidelines. Polygamous relationships have existed since ancient times and they exist now between people who aren't even religious. Pretending that they don't exist outside of Muslim communities is just plain ignorance.

Falling in love with more than one person is normal and not a sin. But most people pursue it as cheating. Islam tells us not to do that, to be transparent and if you want to pursue it, you can do so legally and rightfully with the consent of all parties involved.
to be fair... that needs to be qualified with "if your a man"
 





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