Neturei Karta: Hasidic Jews Who Oppose State Of Israel.

Lisa

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The synagogue of satan...wonder what they think when God says that the land was an everlasting possession? (Sorry if that is answered in the video...I don't have time to watch it.)
 

Mr. Blah

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The synagogue of satan...wonder what they think when God says that the land was an everlasting possession? (Sorry if that is answered in the video...I don't have time to watch it.)
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

Genesis 17:8
 
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Oh do I await the day they admit they're all converts :D

With that aside, Im not sure how they can be "against" their own people owning the land if they say the bible is about them...
 

Mr. Blah

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Those pesky anti-semites!

#antisemitism
Funny, the NK group joins those pro-Palestine "antisemitic" group.

In the end of demonstration, we could see debate between a secular pro-Israel Jewish couple with some NK demonstrators.
 

Mr. Blah

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Oh do I await the day they admit they're all converts :D

With that aside, Im not sure how they can be "against" their own people owning the land if they say the bible is about them...
They oppose the human efforts to reconquer the Land of Israel.

Instead, they would wait for the coming of Messiah first, then they would support the State of Israel.
 

Serveto

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BTW, are there Zionist Christians in VCF?
As I understand, Zionism, in all forms, secular, Christian or other, is, to NK, a new, much-despised, particularly infectious strain of "Hellenism," designed to undermine the "true" Israel they claim to represent. Gush Emunim, NK's counterpart, and others of their (ultra-orthodox) type consider Christian and other Zionists, including Yair Lapid's secularist Yesh Atid Party, as the donkey {click here} -dumb ass probably goes without saying- upon which their Messiah is presently, if at times slowly, riding into Jerusalem, according to scripture and prophecy.
"We [Israeli secularists] are not the Messiah's donkey," Lapid went on to say [to the ultra-Orthodox heredim, in and out of Knesset]. "That is what we have been for too long. It won't bring the Messiah. It will keep the Messiah away. Anyone who accuses others of incitement is merely adding to the hatred in Israel, and adding to hatred keeps the Messiah away."
Source
 
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Mr. Blah

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The synagogue of satan...wonder what they think when God says that the land was an everlasting possession? (Sorry if that is answered in the video...I don't have time to watch it.)
Who is "the synagogue of satan"?
 

rainerann

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It's referencing a verse from Revelation 3:9 "Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."

It means that they are Jews acting in disobedience. It doesn't mean they are fake or nothing. It was directly referencing the church of Philadelphia at one point. More than likely it is talking about Jews persecuting the church with either false teaching or some other form of manipulations.

It is my theory that this verse is explaining how the Catholic Church began with influence from the ones who call themselves Jews and that the Catholic Church could be called the synogogue of satan.

One reason I believe this is because the Catholic Church hides many documents in a vault and were given authority to do this by becoming joined with Rome. This was a way to oppress the church and keep Christianity from spreading, which was the desire of the Jews in origin According to the gospels. Pilate did not set out to crucify Christ. The Jewish leaders did to stop people from following Christ. They have never stopped doing this ever since. This is why there should never be such a thing as a Zionist Christian. It is the same as joining oneself with an enemy.

I love the anitzionist movement in the Jewish community. The world feels a little bit safer from the wrath of god because of them. Everyone else is labelled and antisemite if they do. But, how can a Jew be called an antisemite and if they don't agree with what is happening in Israel, we should listen to what they have to say, but so many people don't. This means their message is even more legitimate. They are a small voice that few people hear before the prophecy is fulfilled that will not be changed. We spend so much time learning in church about people like Elijah who was the only one who didn't worship Baal, but we can't see how this applies today with this subject. This is evidence that the apostacy is taking place. I really think the churches support of Israel is the falling away described in the bible.

I donate money to them and support them when I can even. I really don't understand how the church doesn't realize they have a much more biblically centered message. If we to support the Jewish community as Christians, we should be supporting the ones who are basically waiting for the return of Christ.

This is why I think their message is more biblical. When they describe waiting for the messiah, it mirrors the prophecy of the return of Christ. It is basically one and the same thing. In general the antizionist Jews have a much better understanding of scripture than the often atheist Jews promoting Israel, but few people will listen to them because the Jews returning to Israel is more of a spectacle. It is similar to people wanting to watch the super bowl rather than learn something important or useful. The Jews returning to Israel is entertaining basically. It is a show.
 
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Mr. Blah

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It's referencing a verse from Revelation 3:9 "Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."

It means that they are Jews acting in disobedience. It doesn't mean they are fake or nothing. It was directly referencing the church of Philadelphia at one point. More than likely it is talking about Jews persecuting the church with either false teaching or some other form of manipulations.

It is my theory that this verse is explaining how the Catholic Church began with influence from the ones who call themselves Jews and that the Catholic Church could be called the synogogue of satan.

One reason I believe this is because the Catholic Church hides many documents in a vault and were given authority to do this by becoming joined with Rome. This was a way to oppress the church and keep Christianity from spreading, which was the desire of the Jews in origin According to the gospels. Pilate did not set out to crucify Christ. The Jewish leaders did to stop people from following Christ. They have never stopped doing this ever since. This is why there should never be such a thing as a Zionist Christian. It is the same as joining oneself with an enemy.

I love the anitzionist movement in the Jewish community. The world feels a little bit safer from the wrath of god because of them. Everyone else is labelled and antisemite if they do. But, how can a Jew be called an antisemite and if they don't agree with what is happening in Israel, we should listen to what they have to say, but so many people don't. This means their message is even more legitimate, in my opinion. They are a small voice that few people hear before the prophecy is fulfilled that will not be changed. We spend so much time learning in church about people like Elijah who was the only one who didn't worship Baal, but we can't see how this applies today with this subject. This is evidence that the apostacy is taking place. I really think the churches support of Israel is the falling away described in the bible.

I donate money to them and support them when I can even. I really don't understand how the church doesn't realize they have a much more biblically centered message.
But, is it written in the Scripture that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever?

The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." - Genesis 17:8
 

Serveto

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But, is it written in the Scripture that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever?

The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." - Genesis 17:8
As I read it, the Biblical covenant, in this case, was established with Abraham, without a Jew in sight. Jews, to the extent that they can be traced to Judah, one of the twelve sons of Jacob (Israel), son of Isaac, son of Abraham, are only a subset of Israel. Nowhere, in that chapter, do I hear exclusive reference to Jews as such.
 

rainerann

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But, is it written in the Scripture that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever?

The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." - Genesis 17:8
Right, but they were also removed from the land because of judgement for their sins. This judgement doesn't mean the verse is no longer true. It means that returning to the land is dependent upon the decision of God to remove this judgement. This is the message of antizionists who don't believe it is time to return. The Messiah will come and restore the land of Israel, which means that the land will be cleaned of unrighteousness and there will no longer be anything that causes offence.

These are the signs that will indicate that the land has been restored. Israel means something. It means a place where there is justice. It doesn't mean land of bulldozers and walls. The Jewish rabbis who oppose the current state of Israel know that what god has promised will be beautiful when it is fulfilled the same way we know that it will be beautiful when Christ returns. What we see now is not beautiful at all.
 

Mr. Blah

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The Biblical covenant, in this case, was established with Abraham, without a Jew in sight. Jews, to the extent that they can be traced to Judah, one of the twelve sons of Jacob (Israel), son of Isaac, son of Abraham, are only a subset of Israel. Nowhere, in that chapter, do I hear exclusive reference to Jews as such.
.... to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.

And this is "everlasting possession".
Everlasting is forever, regardless the Jews/Israelites want to obey or to disobey the term of the covenant.
 

Mr. Blah

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Right, but they were also removed from the land because of judgement for their sins. This judgement doesn't mean the verse is no longer true. It means that returning to the land is dependent upon the decision of God to remove this judgement. This is the message of antizionists who don't believe it is time to return. The Messiah will come and restore the land of Israel, which means that the land will be cleaned of unrighteousness and there will no longer be anything that causes offence.

These are the signs that will indicate that the land has been restored. Israel means something. It means a place where there is justice. It doesn't mean land of bulldozers and walls. The Jewish rabbis who oppose the current state of Israel know that what god has promised will be beautiful when it is fulfilled the same way we know that it will be beautiful when Christ returns. What we see now is not beautiful at all.
Isaiah 66:8

Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.

The Christian Zionists often cite this verse as the prophecy of the birth of the State of Israel.

A modern nation needs a secular governmental structure (and the ancient nation needs it too - kings, ministers, armies, etc.)
It must be the present State of Israel.
 

Serveto

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@Mr. Blah
The question was ...
But, is it written in the Scripture that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever?
My answer was that the Jews, to the extent that they can be traced to Judah, are a subset of Israel, not the sum total. Therefore, nowhere do I read, in your cited Genesis source, that the "Land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever." I grant that the source does refer to Abraham's descendants, but Jews are not the sum total of those descendants.
 
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The synagogue of satan...wonder what they think when God says that the land was an everlasting possession? (Sorry if that is answered in the video...I don't have time to watch it.)
Lisa, I wish for once you would stop making ignorant comments that are wrong on so many levels.
Honestly, how do you do this? You believe in the bible, don't you?

1) The synagogue of satan were the jews who believed in their own superiority and righteousness. They didn't believe they were sinful, but always thought GOD was on their side.

When Jesus encountered them, they told him "we're the descendants of Abraham" ie referring to their bloodline as their source of righteousness.
to which Jesus said "God could raise sons of Abraham from these stones" "you're the sons of satan".

Jeremiah the prophet, encountered them. They had false prophets appointed over them who would walk around saying 'peace peace' ie God is on our side, we're righteous etc.
What did they do to Jeremiah? he was beaten, rejected etc.



2) This group of jews truely believes only the messiah can bring about the REAL zion foretold in the prophecies.
We're talking about a future zion, without borders....protected by God.

Zechariah 4
'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ saith the Lord of hosts.



These particular jews, do not believe in Jesus, however they clearly recognise that an Israel protected by WALLS and state of the art technology/weapons (one of the best airforces in the world)...is def NOT 'messianic israel'
 

rainerann

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A modern nation needs a secular governmental structure because His kingdom is not of this world for one. For two, the prophecy can't be fulfilled without this and His word will not be changed. Therefore, neither apply to the fulfillment of this verse regarding Israel. They apply to the conditions for the fulfillment of the prophecy to reveal mystery babylon. What you are saying is that the state of Israel could be mystery babylon if they are meeting these conditions. No where does the revelation mention the presence of the state of Israel or the fulfillment of this prophecy in Isaiah.

What the verse in Isaiah is saying is that the restoration of Israel will defy the natural process of building a city. It says that people know a city can't be born in a day or built in a moment, but Israel will be. As soon as labor begins, it will be born.

Therefore the years of struggle in the present state of Israel prove that it is not the fulfillment of this verse. Their wishy washy position on creating a two state solution prove this isn't fulfilled.

When Israel is restored, there will be no discussion of a two state solution, the land will be given to them. It won't have to be taken. That is what the verse is saying.
 
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