Mystery Babylon Revealed in Just Two Verses

[Maldarker]

The crowns on the heads over the horns could most literally mean the royal hierarchy of the secret order of Lucifer’s descendants directing the other Angelic offspring.

We know that Jesus was through Mary marrying Joseph, resolving the legacy of Angelic descendant King David, yet spoke of not holding fast to genealogical lines as denoting authority, for a purpose: He had to come in that form but of a virgin, as Eve had been the first of before the fall, to unlock entrance for these dueling offspring of Eve; Cain was firstborn of Adam and Eve post banishment from Eden but was a seed from “The Apple” in Eve? Suddenly, after interacting with The Serpent, they knew about procreation but were innocent of their “nakedness” before.

Was Cain a “cuckoo” of the “dragon/serpant” or Lucifer? Is that communicated in Cain’s instinct for an offering? Did God know and was he telling us with this passage?

It’s one of the more perplexing entries: Why was Abel favored? Was he the natural offspring as initially meant to be? Wasn’t Cain’s offering less violent?

But we must remember that this world is not the end; goodness is in obedience to God not absence of violence.

Cain gave offerings of fruit/vegetation, which are primary producers: they get their energy from The Sun. Was this evidence of Cain’s Luciferian instinct and genetic “knowledge”? Was his non violence actually evidence of his partial angelic origin?

Abel crushed the primary producer and slay the one who ate from Earth’s “consummation” with The Sun. Later, Jesus would be slain as a “lamb” to complete the cycle God determined was the inly thing that could open Heaven back up for fallen humanity.

That dragon is lord of the heads, crowns and horns. The “dragon”, serpant is the head. Then there are major royal families and minor nobles.

You forget the import of LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD who gives life to this blood see genesis "breath of life" life is in the blood etc. Abel knew the importance of "life" how its easy to sacrifice grain that gives multiple seeds in the head for planting where as the animal sacfrice is more resources to maintain etc making it more of a worh offering to GOD its the whole of the widow giving a mite and GOD sees that as a great sacrifice....you for get this point.

 

[YokeFellow]

Euphemisms people. Look for them.

Mountains in the Bible often represent the Male Phallus. When Moses went to the top of Mt Sinai, he went to retrieve God's Seed to bring it down to God's Wife.

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God."

The 'Head' of the Mountain is where the Seed is cast from. OK? Do you get it? Do I need to post pictures?

Moses then proceeds to bring God's Seed to the Bride, the WOMB, but what is Moses greeted with?

'

Whoops! Wrong Womb!!!

God's Seed ended up meeting the Womb of Horus. Hat-Hor.

God's Wife is playing the Harlot!

What does Moses do with God's Seed?

Exodus 32:19
"And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."

God's Seed was cast to the Earth.

This brings us to Hagar the Egyptian Woman...

Galatians 4:25
"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children."

Mount Sinai is a picture of what happened in Mt Sinai and the sin of the Golden Hathor... Hagar.

There was a conception that took place. Study your Old Testaments people.

Anyhoo...

The 'Seven Mountains' on which Mystery Babylon 'sits' are seven Phalluses that she FORNICATED WITH to conceive the Seven Antichrists of Bible History...



I would strongly suggest you folks reading this thread to avoid False Doctrines of those that completely ignore the Old Testament as if all of that History does not matter. Again, those that point their hypocritical fingers at the Catholic Church while ignoring every other False Church should try pointing it at their own 'Chruch' for once.

That is all.

 

[YokeFellow]

You forget the import of LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD who gives life to this blood see genesis "breath of life" life is in the blood etc. Abel knew the importance of "life" how its easy to sacrifice grain that gives multiple seeds in the head for planting where as the animal sacfrice is more resources to maintain etc making it more of a worh offering to GOD its the whole of the widow giving a mite and GOD sees that as a great sacrifice....you for get this point.

Here is a related verse...

1 John 5:8
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Where?

"IN" Earth.

 

[Maldarker]

Here is a related verse...

1 John 5:8
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Where?

"IN" Earth.

And so is this a related verse

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

...suppose you'll say cain is the first vampire.... seems where your headed in your logical jump just wondering

 

[phipps]

@ARose

What is peculiar, is that “sons of God” look upon the daughters of humans as if they are of a different kind. A different thing, origin than they are from.

The Bible tells us in Genesis 6:2, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." (KJV). The sons of God did not look at the daughters of men like they were a different kind. The sons of God desired the the daughters of men because they were beautiful people. The NKJV says, "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

When John is confused and falls down to worship an angel, it is at his “feet”. The angel tells him he is merely a fellow servant, bretheren, not to be worshipped. He is a formed being that John has the tongue to speak to and understand.

John bows down to worship the angel because he must have been magnificent to look at. But yeah the angel is a created being who cannot be worshipped.

We know that Angels do not marry, that there is no desire for fleshly prompts in heaven but that doesn’t clarify what happens on Earth in a fallen state and exactly what Lucifer and his followers’ forbidden interactions with humans fully were. Angels have free will. They are capable of defying God just as humans are. An impossible activity would not have to be forbidden as a direction to will.

According to the Bible fallen angels were thrown to this earth with their leader Satan who is the root of all evil and are what brought sin to this earth and have been causing havoc ever since. Revelation 12:12 says, "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” They are the ones that tempt us and we see this with Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness.

Yes angels have free will just as we do. All created intelligent beings of God have free will and are therefore capable of defying God as Satan and third of the angels did in heaven and as many human beings do as Adam and Eve did and the rest of humanity have too. However that does not mean they can do what God never created them to do. Angels were not created to procreate with themselves or any other of God's created beings. They do not have that ability and I thank God for that. What would this sinful earth be like if they could procreate and sire offspring with humans? I don't even want to imagine!

We are given information in the bible about Lucifer falling to Earth, this place, this realm, this state. He is roaming, present.

He fell to this Earth after he was thrown out of heaven with a third of the angels, true. And he and and all the fallen angels still have all their created powers with them. But they are mostly in the spiritual realm.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, the angels are seen as in human form enough that townspeople think they are able to fornicate with them, whether or not they actually could. If they were formless energy as visitors, would the people make such a mistake?

Angels fallen and unfallen are spiritual beings. They are not flesh. They are all around us now, but we cannot see them. They generally remain in their spiritual form and have no physical integration in our world. They were created higher than human beings and have capabilities that we are not capable of. For example they are physically brilliant. When Jesus rose from the dead, the angel who came from heaven had a countenance “like lightning” and “clothing as white as snow” (Matthew 28:3). Angels are also fast. “The living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning” (Ezekiel 1:14). They move faster than the speed of light. Daniel’s experience with an angel: “While I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering” (Daniel 9:21). Daniel prayed to God and while he was still praying God sent an angel from heaven, thousands of light-years away, to Daniel’s side. That’s fast! They are very powerful and excel in strength too. One angel killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night (2 Kings 19:35, Psalm 103:20). We read that some angels have wings. And of course they can appear and disappear at will.

At Jesus’ tomb, the angels speak and appear to be approached as if they have a humanlike form.

Angels also have bodies, although they are not mortal like our own; they live in a dimension we find hard to comprehend. Interestingly, the apostle Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). At the resurrection we will be given new bodies that, like the angels, will never die. Angels are capable of eating our food as they did when they appeared to Abraham and Lot but that does not mean they can procreate and do other things like humans..

I posted this somewhere in this forum before but I will post here too.

"Even if angels (fallen and unfallen) wanted to marry and have babies, they couldn’t; they don’t have human DNA. It would be easier for a jellyfish to marry a mountain goat than for angels to marry people. Thus, it doesn’t make practical sense to believe that our passage in Genesis refers to the marriage of angels, fallen or holy, to humans.

"Angels are not born; they are created. If God wanted more angels, He wouldn’t need to marry them off to humans or other angels to reproduce. He could create them from scratch. Speaking of Lucifer, God said, “The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created" (Ezekiel 28:13).

"Moreover, Jesus tells us plainly that angels do not marry. God intended for children to be born within marriage. Marriage is a uniquely human institution, reserved for mankind. “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Mark and Luke suggest the same thing: “Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God” (Luke 20:36; some translations render it “sons of God”)." When the righteous will be resurrected and go to heaven with Christ, they will be like the angels who cannot marry or be given in marriage. They too won't be able to procreate.

So there is something to be said about this realm and how these beings are to enter it from another in a human like form.

Yes there is something to be said about it definitely. They can appear human like but that doesn't mean they are capable of doing everything that humans can do. When angels appear human like to people, there is a reason for it. God has sent them to minister, give a message or help His people. After they fulfil their purpose they disappear back to their spiritual realm working for the salvation of mankind because they are ministering spirits after all.

These are not speculative opinions, they are the truth of God's Word.

 

[ARose]

@ARose


The Bible tells us in Genesis 6:2, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." (KJV). The sons of God did not look at the daughters of men like they were a different kind. The sons of God desired the the daughters of men because they were beautiful people. The NKJV says, "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."


John bows down to worship the angel because he must have been magnificent to look at. But yeah the angel is a created being who cannot be worshipped.


According to the Bible fallen angels were thrown to this earth with their leader Satan who is the root of all evil and are what brought sin to this earth and have been causing havoc ever since. Revelation 12:12 says, "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” They are the ones that tempt us and we see this with Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness.

Yes angels have free will just as we do. All created intelligent beings of God have free will and are therefore capable of defying God as Satan and third of the angels did in heaven and as many human beings do as Adam and Eve did and the rest of humanity have too. However that does not mean they can do what God never created them to do. Angels were not created to procreate with themselves or any other of God's created beings. They do not have that ability and I thank God for that. What would this sinful earth be like if they could procreate and sire offspring with humans? I don't even want to imagine!


He fell to this Earth after he was thrown out of heaven with a third of the angels, true. And he and and all the fallen angels still have all their created powers with them. But they are mostly in the spiritual realm.


Angels fallen and unfallen are spiritual beings. They are not flesh. They are all around us now, but we cannot see them. They generally remain in their spiritual form and have no physical integration in our world. They were created higher than human beings and have capabilities that we are not capable of. For example they are physically brilliant. When Jesus rose from the dead, the angel who came from heaven had a countenance “like lightning” and “clothing as white as snow” (Matthew 28:3). Angels are also fast. “The living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning” (Ezekiel 1:14). They move faster than the speed of light. Daniel’s experience with an angel: “While I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering” (Daniel 9:21). Daniel prayed to God and while he was still praying God sent an angel from heaven, thousands of light-years away, to Daniel’s side. That’s fast! They are very powerful and excel in strength too. One angel killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night (2 Kings 19:35, Psalm 103:20). We read that some angels have wings. And of course they can appear and disappear at will.


Angels also have bodies, although they are not mortal like our own; they live in a dimension we find hard to comprehend. Interestingly, the apostle Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). At the resurrection we will be given new bodies that, like the angels, will never die. Angels are capable of eating our food as they did when they appeared to Abraham and Lot but that does not mean they can procreate and do other things like humans..

I posted this somewhere in this forum before but I will post here too.

"Even if angels (fallen and unfallen) wanted to marry and have babies, they couldn’t; they don’t have human DNA. It would be easier for a jellyfish to marry a mountain goat than for angels to marry people. Thus, it doesn’t make practical sense to believe that our passage in Genesis refers to the marriage of angels, fallen or holy, to humans.

"Angels are not born; they are created. If God wanted more angels, He wouldn’t need to marry them off to humans or other angels to reproduce. He could create them from scratch. Speaking of Lucifer, God said, “The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created" (Ezekiel 28:13).

"Moreover, Jesus tells us plainly that angels do not marry. God intended for children to be born within marriage. Marriage is a uniquely human institution, reserved for mankind. “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Mark and Luke suggest the same thing: “Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God” (Luke 20:36; some translations render it “sons of God”)." When the righteous will be resurrected and go to heaven with Christ, they will be like the angels who cannot marry or be given in marriage. They too won't be able to procreate.


Yes there is something to be said about it definitely. They can appear human like but that doesn't mean they capable of doing everything that humans can do. When angels appear human like to people, there is a reason for it. God has sent them to minister, give a message or help His people. After they fulfil their purpose they disappear back to their spiritual realm working for the salvation of mankind because they are ministering spirits after all.

These are not speculative opinions, they are the truth of God's Word.

“The Sons of God” are presented as somehow separate from “The Daughters of Men.” Am I missing a spiritual change, a new classification that changes a son of man to a son of God?

What is this distinction? Have you found an entry that explains this because I have not.

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah recognized figures that appeared like beings they wanted to fornicate with; have I missed other beings that humans have had relations with besides “The Sons if God”?

Were they desiring to have sex with ambiguous brilliance or beings they found beautiful in a form that seemed compatible with any type of human intercourse, however fruitless and regarding those who thought of them as an opposite sex, unable to truly copulate.

This episode can’t just be ignored; they saw formed beings that they called to be brought out. It seems unlikely they were lusting after formless beings.

 

[ARose]

@ARose


The Bible tells us in Genesis 6:2, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." (KJV). The sons of God did not look at the daughters of men like they were a different kind. The sons of God desired the the daughters of men because they were beautiful people. The NKJV says, "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."


John bows down to worship the angel because he must have been magnificent to look at. But yeah the angel is a created being who cannot be worshipped.


According to the Bible fallen angels were thrown to this earth with their leader Satan who is the root of all evil and are what brought sin to this earth and have been causing havoc ever since. Revelation 12:12 says, "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” They are the ones that tempt us and we see this with Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness.

Yes angels have free will just as we do. All created intelligent beings of God have free will and are therefore capable of defying God as Satan and third of the angels did in heaven and as many human beings do as Adam and Eve did and the rest of humanity have too. However that does not mean they can do what God never created them to do. Angels were not created to procreate with themselves or any other of God's created beings. They do not have that ability and I thank God for that. What would this sinful earth be like if they could procreate and sire offspring with humans? I don't even want to imagine!


He fell to this Earth after he was thrown out of heaven with a third of the angels, true. And he and and all the fallen angels still have all their created powers with them. But they are mostly in the spiritual realm.


Angels fallen and unfallen are spiritual beings. They are not flesh. They are all around us now, but we cannot see them. They generally remain in their spiritual form and have no physical integration in our world. They were created higher than human beings and have capabilities that we are not capable of. For example they are physically brilliant. When Jesus rose from the dead, the angel who came from heaven had a countenance “like lightning” and “clothing as white as snow” (Matthew 28:3). Angels are also fast. “The living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning” (Ezekiel 1:14). They move faster than the speed of light. Daniel’s experience with an angel: “While I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering” (Daniel 9:21). Daniel prayed to God and while he was still praying God sent an angel from heaven, thousands of light-years away, to Daniel’s side. That’s fast! They are very powerful and excel in strength too. One angel killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night (2 Kings 19:35, Psalm 103:20). We read that some angels have wings. And of course they can appear and disappear at will.


Angels also have bodies, although they are not mortal like our own; they live in a dimension we find hard to comprehend. Interestingly, the apostle Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). At the resurrection we will be given new bodies that, like the angels, will never die. Angels are capable of eating our food as they did when they appeared to Abraham and Lot but that does not mean they can procreate and do other things like humans..

I posted this somewhere in this forum before but I will post here too.

"Even if angels (fallen and unfallen) wanted to marry and have babies, they couldn’t; they don’t have human DNA. It would be easier for a jellyfish to marry a mountain goat than for angels to marry people. Thus, it doesn’t make practical sense to believe that our passage in Genesis refers to the marriage of angels, fallen or holy, to humans.

"Angels are not born; they are created. If God wanted more angels, He wouldn’t need to marry them off to humans or other angels to reproduce. He could create them from scratch. Speaking of Lucifer, God said, “The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created" (Ezekiel 28:13).

"Moreover, Jesus tells us plainly that angels do not marry. God intended for children to be born within marriage. Marriage is a uniquely human institution, reserved for mankind. “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Mark and Luke suggest the same thing: “Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God” (Luke 20:36; some translations render it “sons of God”)." When the righteous will be resurrected and go to heaven with Christ, they will be like the angels who cannot marry or be given in marriage. They too won't be able to procreate.


Yes there is something to be said about it definitely. They can appear human like but that doesn't mean they capable of doing everything that humans can do. When angels appear human like to people, there is a reason for it. God has sent them to minister, give a message or help His people. After they fulfil their purpose they disappear back to their spiritual realm working for the salvation of mankind because they are ministering spirits after all.

These are not speculative opinions, they are the truth of God's Word.

Also, it is recurring that humans in the Bible respond to angels with awe and fear of their brilliance, visual impact but they are described in a way that leads us to presume they are dazzling or terrifying in a beautiful or fascinating way, rather than horrifying in the impact of their repulsiveness.

I believe for them to seem beautiful they’d, generally, have to have some kind of comfortable familiarity of form. They are not repellent, they garner attention from the humans they approach.

That doesn’t eliminate the Biblical truth of what they are but it does raise questions about if there are forms they’re allowed when they have a task from God that must be performed in this realm.

 

[phipps]

great post.

Phipps: I personally believe nephilim are the result of an unnatural union between the fallen angels and humans; our nature has been perverted by sin, in a sense we are fallen ourselves (flesh orientated nature), living in a fallen world.

If you believe that nephilim were the result of the unnatural union between fallen angels and humans then I'm afraid the belief does not stem from the Bible. As I posted above to @ARose, all angels, fallen and unfallen were not created with the ability to procreate. They cannot and do not have sex. When Satan and a third of the angels rebelled in heaven and lost the war, they were thrown out of heaven to this earth. And they still had all the powers they were created with and used them for sinful purposes that God never intended them to be used for. However Satan and all the fallen angels did not develop other powers on their own after they sinned. If they could not procreate with themselves (they are all created) how could they procreate with humans? Do angels even have the same DNA make up as human beings? It is simply impossible for them to sire any offspring with human beings.

The Bible also tells us that nephilim existed before and after the flood. Were they all offspring of fallen angels and humans? The Bible tells us Goliath was a giant/nephilim and not once is it suggested he was offspring of fallen angels. He was as human as you and me except a giant and he was killed by David. in fact the giants of the Bible were defeated by the Israelites and other tribes that were pagan. I write about this all in my thread "The Giants/Nephilim in the Bible." If you want to know the truth about nephilim according to the Bible then I suggest you read my posts there.

And the seven mountains in Rome does not preclude 7 mountains elsewhere in the world with a nefarious false church that seduces the masses (gosh, prosperity gospel and the Kanye West's of the world are seducing Christians everywhere just to name one); we are only ever coming from our limited perspectives, not God's scope of geography...as well as our own cognitive biases.

No but if you study end time prophecy in the Bible, the only power that fits all the points of the little horn power of Daniel 7, the first beast of Revelation 13 and Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. That is no coincidence because there are no coincidences in the Bible. There maybe seven mountains elsewhere in the world that seduce the masses but they do not fit all the points that the Bible gives us about the Papacy.

I absolutely agree the book of Enoch is a book of titillation; it is far more exciting to read about demons and their powers than the sobering read that is conviction of sin in the Holy Bible... a doctrine of devils is always going to seduce our fallen natures compared with the truth.

I agree but if you believe nephilim were the result of the unnatural union between fallen angels and humans, then you agree with the book Enoch because that is where that false doctrine comes from. Its not from the Bible at all.

The Bible does not make it clear about angels and human fornication; mere speculation that it is impossible is again limiting God and fitting Him into our intellectual box.

How is it limiting God to tell His truth that nowhere in the Bible does fornication between fallen angels and human beings ever take place. It is not speculation either. Not once does the Bible even imply nephilim were anything other than human beings before and after the flood. I will repost something I posted about the sons of God in my thread:

"Many Christians believe Genesis 6:4 indicates that the sons of God were fallen angels. There is a plausible argument that the phrase “sons of God” refers to angels when it is used in Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7. Although its a phrase used for unfallen angels, those still loyal to God. That point is clear in Job 1:6 and 2:1 where there was a meeting in heaven and the sons of God came before the Lord. Satan appears at both meetings but not once is he called a son of God. Both verses make it a point to say, "and Satan also came among them" and "and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord." Satan is not counted among the "sons of God" because he isn't one."

The term "sons of God" is a term of endearment for righteous beings and humans. God never uses it for fallen angels of disobedient humans.

Here are more examples from the Bible:

- The most important Person known as the Son of God is Jesus Christ.

- Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

- Matthew 5:44-45, "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

- John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.” Notice that there were those who were not sons of God, but that through receiving Him became sons of God.

- Sometimes the Bible uses children of God, "For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26). It is by faith that a man or woman becomes a “child of God.” (See also Isaiah 56:5; Philippians 2:15.)

The inescapable conclusion from these verses and others is that the sons of God in Genesis 6 refers to the righteous children of God not fallen angels.

After all the Egyptian deities are all hybrids, and what ever was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah (the Bible speaks of sexual perversion and wickedness and many Christians have popularised it as a case against homosexuality, however it is not ALL that was going on to rouse God's rage) was clearly worse than what is going on today otherwise cities would be abolished by the same logic that ended this city?

In all the history of mankind since Adam and Eve were created, hybrid human beings have never existed in this world. EVER. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were as human as you and me. God destroyed them because of their horrible sins and He had very good reason why He made such a judgement on those two cities just like He did with the flood and other genocides, but not once is it said or implied that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were anything other than human. To say otherwise is to put words in God's mouth, the author of the Bible.

I think we as humans are far too conceited about our modern life as being sophisticated (technological and genetic engineering advances to name a few) and fail to realise that we must have been far more advanced pre-flood to the point of blasphemous ingenuity far worse than anything we see today;

For me that is not the issue at all. The issue is there are some Christians that believe the Bible is God message to us. They believe it is the infallible truth of God yet believe in doctrines that are not of God including the one of nephilim being offspring of fallen angels and human beings. This doctrine is not biblical at all.

I mean God wiped out the entire world with a flood that shook the earth's plates compressing bone in the troughs that today read as millions of years old (carbon dating), an affect that can only be replicated through extreme pressure. He only left one family! What on earth must we have been up to worse than now!

I don't know if the antediluvians before the flood sinned worse than now. The Bible does say their thoughts were evil continually and God regretted why He ever created mankind. However if God had not destroyed this earth with a flood, given the state of this world now it would have been in a worse state. I don't want to imagine what that would be like.

What does the devil do to mock the Lord the most? He perverts God's creation and his original design and order. I speculate, but I believe perverting God's perfect and natural designs through genetic and epigenetic (including spiritual) hybridism and such debauchery, would be high on His reset button?

Yes the devil mocks God in all manner of ways but the devil is a created being and has limitations. He nor the other fallen angels can procreate hybrid people and its not through lack of trying. If he could why wouldn't we have hybrid people teaming this earth now? Its simply impossible.

Note: these are speculative opinions only so chill

We should not speculate when it comes to God's Word. We should make sure we have the truth on each subject.

 

[phipps]

@ARose

“The Sons of God” are presented as somehow separate from “The Daughters of Men.” Am I missing a spiritual change, a new classification that changes a son of man to a son of God?

They are separate because the term sons of God is a term of endearment for righteous people. I just posted above about the sons of God so I will repost here too.

"Many Christians believe Genesis 6:4 indicates that the sons of God were fallen angels. There is a plausible argument that the phrase “sons of God” refers to angels when it is used in Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7. Although its a phrase used for unfallen angels, those still loyal to God. That point is clear in Job 1:6 and 2:1 where there was a meeting in heaven and the sons of God came before the Lord. Satan appears at both meetings but not once is he called a son of God. Both verses make it a point to say, "and Satan also came among them" and "and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord." Satan is not counted among the "sons of God" because he isn't one."

The term "sons of God" is a term of endearment for righteous beings and humans. God never uses it for fallen angels of disobedient humans.

Here are more examples from the Bible:

The most important Person known as the Son of God is Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

Matthew 5:44-45, "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.” Notice that there were those who were not sons of God, but that through receiving Him became sons of God.

Sometimes the Bible uses children of God, "For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26). It is by faith that a man or woman becomes a “child of God.” (See also Isaiah 56:5; Philippians 2:15.)

The inescapable conclusion from these verses and others is that the sons of God in Genesis 6 refers to the righteous children of God not fallen angels.

What is this distinction? Have you found an entry that explains this because I have not.

The distinction is the sons of men were righteous people and daughters of men weren't. After they marry (which angels can't do) immediately in Genesis 6:3 the Lord says, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” God gave mankind 120 years to change and come back to Him.

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah recognized figures that appeared like beings they wanted to fornicate with; have I missed other beings that humans have had relations with besides “The Sons if God”?

The angels of God who came to save Lot and his family appeared human like that they even ate the food Lot offered them. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah lusted after what they thought were people like them. They didn't know they were angels that is why Genesis 19:4-5 says, "Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.” However these were holy angels and they blinded the people.

As I've posted above the sons of God were human, as human as you and me and nowhere does the Bible say they weren't. That comes from outside the Bible from the book of Enoch.

Were they desiring to have sex with ambiguous brilliance or beings they found beautiful in a form that seemed compatible with any type of human intercourse, however fruitless and regarding those who thought of them as an opposite sex, unable to truly copulate.

I should have explained better. The sons of God who were righteous men were desiring unrighteous people who did not submit or live according to the will of God. This is something the Bible warns us about. Not to marry the unconverted or the unbelieving. All throughout the Bible God warned His people about mixing with and marrying unbelievers. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 says, "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” Therefore “Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty.”

So the result of the intermarriages between the sons of God and the daughters of men was not only giants, but sorrow. Why? Because the daughters of men influenced the sons of God instead of the other way round. Unfortunately that is always how things end up whenever believers marry unbelievers. Israel is a good example of that. They always ended up taking the beliefs and customs of the idolaters they mixed with and married.

This episode can’t just be ignored; they saw formed beings that they called to be brought out. It seems unlikely they were lusting after formless beings.

No it can't but I explained the whole situation above. They were lusting after what they thought were people like them because the angels appeared human-like.

 

[phipps]

@ARose

Also, it is recurring that humans in the Bible respond to angels with awe and fear of their brilliance, visual impact but they are described in a way that leads us to presume they are dazzling or terrifying in a beautiful or fascinating way, rather than horrifying in the impact of their repulsiveness.

True.

I believe for them to seem beautiful they’d, generally, have to have some kind of comfortable familiarity of form. They are not repellent, they garner attention from the humans they approach.

Holy angels do have comfortability and familiarity. From the stories I've read of people encountering them, they are not scary or repellent at all because they are always in human form.

That doesn’t eliminate the Biblical truth of what they are but it does raise questions about if there are forms they’re allowed when they have a task from God that must be performed in this realm.

I don't know. I don't want to speculate beyond what the Bible teaches us about how they appear to people in this world.

 

[ARose]

@ARose


True.


Holy angels do have comfortability and familiarity. From the stories I've read of people encountering them, they are not scary or repellent at all because they are always in human form.


I don't know. I don't want to speculate beyond what the Bible teaches us about how they appear to people in this world.

[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your responses and so much Biblical clarity, phipps!

There are many indications that many of the most powerful and wealthy families in the World are Luciferian.

As they are following a liar, it wouldn’t be uncharacteristic of who they follow to deceive them with lies and false promises.

They seem to put a great deal of weight in “The Book of Enoch”. You see the themes in their art, naming and lifestyles.There are hints of who they follow in their gardens and on their family arms.




But I want God’s direction not Satan’s.

 

[Oceanic]

Just an FYI...

Whatever your feelings are towards Mystery Babylon, you should make an attempt to show some Love. After all, She is the Mother that helped bring you into this word. You are made from the Dust of the Earth, Her Earth. The 'Clay'. You share the same DNA with Her. You drank from Her Golden Cup to incarnate into this world. The Cup of Gethsemane. The Forbidden Fruit.

The bottom line is this...

Mystery Babylon is SAVED in the end.

Did you figure that into your Doctrine? That is correct. She will become Born Again...

Revelation 19:7
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready."

She is not thrown into the Lake of Fire where the Devil, Beast and False Prophet are. Mystery Babylon, your Earthly Mother, goes to Heaven...

Revelation 19:8
"And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

Did your 'Church in a Can' ever teach you this?

What will your Mom think when she reviews your records? Did you show any gratitude? Did you show any Love as Jesus teaches?

Or will you record be filled with hatred for New Jerusalem's previous life as Mother of the Human Race?

You should follow the advice of your signature, but you do not. I have provided some of the most incredible Revelations One could ever receive, and you scoff at every one of them. It really says much about that organization you are in.

View attachment 80010

Actually, the point of Babylon is supposed to be evil, that's why God is destroying it in the first place.

In Revelation, just after Babylon falls in John's vision, he tells his future (chosen) descendants, "Rejoice over her, thou heaven (heaven has multiple meanings, in this case, John is calling his fellow chosen brothers and sisters "heaven" because God looks upon them with favor and love) and apostles and prophets, for God has AVENGED you!"

So if God has avenged his people from Babylon, it wouldn't make since for it to rise again. God says EARTH will be renewed, ("behold, I make all things new") but not Babylon. Many scriptures even state Babylon will continue to burn, and the smoke will rise forever and ever because God has remembered her iniquities.

The first verse you provided is saying that AFTER all the punishments have hit those opposed to God, his people should now get ready to unite together, as they used a metaphor like how a bride gets prepared for her husband. This verse is actually them celebrating the fall of Babylon.

The verses beforehand even says all the angels, the 24 elders, and the "heaven" which is God's people, have rejoiced exactly after Babylon has received punishment. THEN the angel tells John to write down that the righteous ones will now be preparing to come together, as everything has been said and done.

Revelation chapter 19 goes on to talk about Jesus coming to earth to begin Armageddon, while his people are fighting with him, coming along behind him on horses hence "blessed are those who are invited to the supper of the lamb!" Continue reading, and you'll see it says an angel is even calling upon all birds of the earth to fill their stomachs with the flesh of the evil ones.

Eventually, Armageddon begins and we already know who wins.

But yeah. Revelation chapter 19 is all about Babylon's defeat and God's people taking their positions for the new millennium.

 

[Oceanic]

Euphemisms people. Look for them.

Mountains in the Bible often represent the Male Phallus. When Moses went to the top of Mt Sinai, he went to retrieve God's Seed to bring it down to God's Wife.

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God."

The 'Head' of the Mountain is where the Seed is cast from. OK? Do you get it? Do I need to post pictures?

Moses then proceeds to bring God's Seed to the Bride, the WOMB, but what is Moses greeted with?

View attachment 80038'

Whoops! Wrong Womb!!!

God's Seed ended up meeting the Womb of Horus. Hat-Hor.

God's Wife is playing the Harlot!

What does Moses do with God's Seed?

Exodus 32:19
"And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."

God's Seed was cast to the Earth.

This brings us to Hagar the Egyptian Woman...

Galatians 4:25
"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children."

Mount Sinai is a picture of what happened in Mt Sinai and the sin of the Golden Hathor... Hagar.

There was a conception that took place. Study your Old Testaments people.

Anyhoo...

The 'Seven Mountains' on which Mystery Babylon 'sits' are seven Phalluses that she FORNICATED WITH to conceive the Seven Antichrists of Bible History...

View attachment 80039

I would strongly suggest you folks reading this thread to avoid False Doctrines of those that completely ignore the Old Testament as if all of that History does not matter. Again, those that point their hypocritical fingers at the Catholic Church while ignoring every other False Church should try pointing it at their own 'Chruch' for once.

That is all.

On the topic of God's seed, I strongly believe his people pre-existed in heaven before he even created the earth. The chosen ones; their spirits were already alive before that heavenly war broke out. It's a theory I think is totally plausible. If you read Genesis carefully, the war breaks out AFTER God creates the earth, not before. That is why he sent the rebellious spirits UNTO EARTH because it was newly created.

Some of those devils ended up on land, some ended up in the sea, some landed in rivers- we know many of them must be chained up spiritually since lots of them will be unleashed for a certain period of time during the tribulation.

But whatever happened during that war in heaven, we have little to no knowledge about. And I strongly believe souls can regenerate. Not reincarnate, but regenerate. As in- my spiritual attributes were within my ancestors, and they regenerated into ME, hundreds of years later. Something like that. I guess the saying "old soul" would apply to this.

So some people ask, "I thought the earth was originally supposed to be a perfect place for us before the fall" I think whatever happened in the war must've gave us a chance to do some...experiencing and a "starting over" kind of thing on this earthly realm. I don't know how to explain it very well, but the war affected us and now...we're here, only temporarily.

We have souls, which is energy, and energy never dies. All I know is that if you're from Satan's bloodline, you have no hope in any capacity. God's people get to return to their original destination after this earth is gone or re-made if you will.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

the word 'All' means ALL

Ok, i havent read this entire thread yet, but i just have to say that the word "all" doesnt always mean ALL in the Bible.

For example, in Daniel 3:7 it says that when "all" the people heard the music they "all" fell down to worship the golden image, but in Daniel 3:12-3:18 we find out that Daniel's 3 friends did NOT worship the image, and therefore ALL doesn't mean ALL all the time.

 

[julia7771]

We should not speculate when it comes to God's Word. We should make sure we have the truth on each subject.

Relax. Jesus is the Truth, not you. this is a discussion, a supposed safe place to discuss and learn. im completely open to different insights as long as they are Biblical. I draw my own insight from this:


The three primary views on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to the first theory is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with this is in Matthew 22:30, which indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender or are able to reproduce. The other two views do not present this problem.

The weakness of views 2) and 3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.

As previously noted, the weakness of the first view is that Matthew 22:30 declares, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” However, the text does not say “angels are not able to marry.” Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the “angels in heaven.” It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.

View 1) is the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction. Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6). Earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudepigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. However, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.

This does not make me a disciple of Enoch, Satan infuses truth with lies all the time, and I most certainly have never or will never read that book.

oh and:


Definition of speculate

intransitive verb

1a : to meditate on or ponder a subject

certainly the opposite of to decree as the word of God and disseminate as such

Settle down. you lot are horribly bitter and nasty on this thread.

 

[ARose]

Relax. Jesus is the Truth, not you. this is a discussion, a supposed safe place to discuss and learn. im completely open to different insights as long as they are Biblical. I draw my own insight from this:


The three primary views on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to the first theory is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with this is in Matthew 22:30, which indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender or are able to reproduce. The other two views do not present this problem.

The weakness of views 2) and 3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.

As previously noted, the weakness of the first view is that Matthew 22:30 declares, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” However, the text does not say “angels are not able to marry.” Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the “angels in heaven.” It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.

View 1) is the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction. Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6). Earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudepigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. However, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.

This does not make me a disciple of Enoch, Satan infuses truth with lies all the time, and I most certainly have never or will never read that book.

oh and:


Definition of speculate

intransitive verb

1a : to meditate on or ponder a subject

certainly the opposite of to decree as the word of God and disseminate as such

Settle down. you lot are horribly bitter and nasty on this thread.

You mention the point I find not settled, which is the different state of angels in Heaven and how they appear in human form when they visit humans.

We know we will be in spirit form with God but our spirit is in flesh, on Earth. We will not be married in Heaven but we marry on Earth.

Angels spend most of their existence not in this realm except when God gives them a messenger task. We do not pray to Angels, we pray to God and he determines if an angel is in need for a task.

But I have not read in The Bible about humans being able to summon angels independent of a task God has directed all parties to do.

This is another reason I wonder if “Sons of God” meant angels who were only to visit for a specific task, who violated God’s orders about the strict purpose of visitations. A sort of “Go in, deliver your message and come back.” He did not make them to remain in this world and their human form should just be to get our attention, install comfort instead of fear, so the message can be delivered or watch can be kept.

Was part of the rebellion interacting with humans outside of these strict rules for taking human form to enter this world (that form again, only intended for the purpose of not blinding and terrifying humans with their perplexing strangeness)?

As you’ve mentioned Julia, God did not forbid powerful and/or royal men from marrying “peasants.”

And there is no doubt from our reading that while the visitors at Sodom and Gomorrah were angels and not human, the people were not confused about their looking human, in a tangible and believable enough human form, that they actually thought they’d be able to physically fornicate with them.

Also, speaking of Sodom and Gomorrah, grotesque and unnatural sexual relations was enough for God to direct the angels to destroy the place to zapped dust.

What would be even worse in God’s eyes, than humans behaving immorally with each other? Enough to have him flood the whole world, after casting the first generation out of Eden for the first act of profound disobedience?

I’d think if the angels abandoned their directive and were conspiring together with humans in grave disobedience against God is the sort of thing he’d nearly wipe out the world for.

I don’t know the full mechanics of God’s design. I don’t know if God sees the same boundaries as I do. That’s why it was absurd that Eve would fall for the lie that God didn’t have his reasons for his instructions, as if we could navigate and even dominate his own creation without him.

I do not know all his reasons for restricting angels to their role, what he has given them in his goodness that we don’t have and fully why Lucifer’s rebellion was such an ingratitude. Angels were tasked to serve us but God doesn’t enslave and his judgement is always fair.

 

[ARose]

Something that phipps wrote that stuck with me, is being grateful we can’t open a new plane of sin outside the human realm by throwing illicit angel interactions into the mix.

And I know what he or she means; there is a peace to removing this possibility.

But the stress of trying to understand an alternative makes me wonder if this is my soul recognizing where God did not want humans to tread, that certain lines were not intended to be crossed through disobedience, causing confusion and unease.

I did not post those sculptures of Lucifer to glamorize the figure but to show where the path leads for families that fall into that trap of thinking they share a path with angels and are somehow operating outside of God’s use and his use, alone: Angel worship.

It seems to me that these powerful families are in illicit communications with some being that is somehow supernatural and that being has inspired them to create or invest in art that presents angels in a worldly, even carnal way and that that depiction represents part of a family story.

 

[phipps]

@julia7771, this is going to be a long response.

Relax. Jesus is the Truth, not you. this is a discussion, a supposed safe place to discuss and learn. im completely open to different insights as long as they are Biblical. I draw my own insight from this:

I take Jesus and His truth seriously since its about my salvation and eternal destiny. I am aware this is a discussion nor did I think it was anything other than a discussion. However that shouldn't mean I don't tell the truth of Jesus does it? I am not open to different insights when it comes to the truth of Jesus. There is the truth, then there is false doctrine. Remember the one that Babylon makes the world drunk with? I don't want to be drunk with false doctrine.

The three primary views on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to the first theory is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with this is in Matthew 22:30, which indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender or are able to reproduce. The other two views do not present this problem.

1- Nowhere in the Bible are fallen angels known as the sons of God. As I told you before that comes from the book of Enoch which is not part of the inspired Word of God.

2- I didn't mention this one but in the Bible some of Israel's kings as the representatives of the people were called sons of God in a special way (1 Chronicles 22:9-10, Psalms 2:7, 89:26-27).

3- This is biblical. There is limited information on this but from the little information we have, it is clear to see that the descendants of Seth were the sons of God and the descendants of Cain were the daughters of men.

After Cain killed Abel, God gave Adam and Eve another son, Seth. He began to have children of his own, and they “began to call on the name of the Lord” (Genesis 4:25-26). And from what we’ve seen in the Bible, those who call on the name of the Lord are called the sons of God.

Meanwhile Cain had been banished from God’s presence. He settled “in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch” (Genesis 4:16-18).

So we can see the two lineages from Seth and Cain. Sadly, people from both lineages began to intermingle. The sons of God and daughters of men became familiar with each other, even friendly. Whatever the case, soon the descendants of Seth, or sons of God, began to marry the daughters of men, or the descendants of Cain.

It is not true that the term sons of God refers only to angels in the Old Testament. I've just mentioned above that some Israelite kings were also called sons of God. Israel as God's chosen nation was called the the first born son of God too (Exodus 4:22). As I posted in my previous post to you, the term "sons of God" refers to righteous angels and people in the Bible. All those who call on the name of Lord whether they are angels or people are sons of God. I also mentioned that in Job 1:6 and 2:1; 38:7, Satan is not referred to as a son of God. They make a point to say "and Satan also came among them" and "and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord." Why? Because Satan and all the fallen angels do not call on the Lord's name do they?

Nothing written about angels in the Bible suggests they have genders. When they appear in human form they may appear as men and they are referred to by male pronouns but they are genderless.

The weakness of views 2) and 3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.”

All throughout mankind's history humans have had giant offspring. I post about it in my thread about nephilim in this post here. In the the Bible the nephilim/giants that existed after the flood were the Anakim (Numbers 13:31-33, Deuteronomy 1:28, 9:28), the Emites/Emim (Deuteronomy 2:10-11), the Zamzummites/Zamzummim (Deuteronomy 2:20-21) and the Rephaites (Genesis 14:5-6). One of the Rephaites was Og, King of Bashan. Scripture records that his bed was made of iron and was more than thirteen feet long and six feet wide (Deuteronomy 3:11).

"Of course, the Anakites, and the other tall, strong Canaanites, were mortal and could be defeated in battle. The Moabites, descendants of Lot, defeated and displaced the Emites, and the Ammonites, descended from Lot by a different son, defeated and displaced the Zamzummites. Israel’s victory over King Og was celebrated in song and story, and is mentioned at seders to this day (Psalm 135:10, 11; 136:17-22; Nehemiah 9:22).

"The land of the Anakites was given to Caleb, one of the spies who was undaunted by the great size and strength of the Canaanites. In fact, Caleb and Joshua almost wiped out the Anakites. They drove the survivors out of the Hebron area and into Philistine cities of Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod (Joshua 11:21-22; 15:13-14).

"Later, we find the remnant of the Anakites joining the Philistines and waging war against Israel. Goliath, young David’s adversary, was from Gath and was apparently descended from the Anakites who fled to Philistia. Goliath was six cubits and a span tall (1 Samuel 17:4). If a cubit was eighteen inches, Goliath was over nine feet tall; a twenty-one-inch cubit would make him over eleven feet tall.

"David’s combat with Goliath was not Israel’s only encounter with the giants of Gath. Four other Philistine fighters are identified as “sons of Rapha,” indicating that they were giants:

2 Samuel 21:16-21, "Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, “You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.” Now it happened afterward that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbechai the Hushathite killed Saph, who was one of the sons of the giant. Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam. Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant. So when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea, David’s brother, killed him."

Summary

"Moses wrote that giants lived before the Flood; he used the term "Nephilim" to describe them. When the Israelites found nine-foot-tall men living in Canaan, they associated them with the Nephilim that Moses had written about. But the Nephilim that the Israelites encountered in Canaan cannot have been the descendants of a discrete group that lived before the flood, because everyone who lived before the flood was destroyed in it, except for Noah and his family. And these Nephilim were not superhuman, because the Israelites defeated them and drove the survivors to the Philistine cities (and sometimes had to fight their descendants several generations later, as David fought Goliath).

"A reasonable conclusion from the biblical witness is that people who lived before the flood were of extremely large stature, and that very tall people persisted, in pockets and isolated areas, for more than a thousand years after the flood. The tribes of giants that Israel encountered in Canaan were some of these people."

This all comes from my thread about nephilim.

I also post about giants from more recent history to our time here. Who do you think produced the giants after the flood up to our times? It was normal human beings who have the genes. Just like normal human beings can produce dwarfs because its in their genes.

Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.

The connection between Genesis 6:1-4 and Genesis 6:5-7 is that after the sons of God married the daughters of men, sin increased in the world. Then God said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). God gave man 120 years to repent and come back to Him so they could avoid the destruction of the flood which He had told them was going to happen through Noah. During the 120 years Noah built the ark and preached to the antediluvians about the coming flood but they mocked and laughed at him. Why? Because it had never rained in those days. The Bible says, "before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground" (Genesis 2:5-6). God made provision so that a lot of people could be saved but they would not. In other words, the ark was big enough to take a lot of people.

Lets read directly from the Bible why God destroyed this earth with a flood. Genesis 6:5-7 says, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” When God made us, we were supposed to reflect His Image, He made us to be holy, happy creatures. When humans began to think selfish, evil thoughts continually, it broke His Heart. And so God said He would destroy man whom He had created. I mean He's the Creator. God abhors sin very much and He could not stand just how sinful the antediluvians were. They must have been so corrupted in their ways that in order to correct the situation, God had to to destroy both them and the earth.

As previously noted, the weakness of the first view is that Matthew 22:30 declares, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” However, the text does not say “angels are not able to marry.” Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the “angels in heaven.” It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.

When God created the angels they were all holy until Lucifer brought sin into heaven. After he was thrown out of heaven with a third of all the angels do you think God then chose to create in the fallen angels the ability for them to procreate? The Bible says no such thing. Humans are able to procreate because God created that ability in us. Angels whether fallen or unfallen cannot and do not procreate with themselves or humans because God did not create that ability in them. Plus angels are not human and therefore cannot produce offspring with us. Humans can only procreate with themselves.

While Satan and his angels dedicate all their time and effort to disrupt God's plan they cannot create abilities in themselves or others that they were not created with in the first place can they? They have limitations as created beings even though they are a little higher than us. They cannot have sexual relations with each other let alone with humans. They are not sexual beings at all nor do they have sexual parts.

View 1) is the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5).

Yes angels can appear in human physical form, it still doesn't make them human does it? Angels are higher beings than us and have incredible powers that they even appear in human form but it doesn't make them human nor can they do everything human beings can do which includes procreation. Only mankind was told to be fruitful and multiply.

The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction.

Just because the men in Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the angels doesn't mean and is not even remotely suggested that the angels could have sex with them. The angels appeared in human form so the people of Sodom and Gomorrah did not know they were angels. Angels cannot and have never replicated human sexuality and reproduction ever. Its not something they can do.

Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6).

Jude 6 which says, "And the angels kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" is not talking about angels being imprisoned because they procreated with human beings and sired offspring (you've made the up haven't you?). That is impossible for them to do and they never have according to the Bible. Angels being in bondage in Jude 6 means that they are in bondage because they are restricted to this planet.

Remember when the demons possessed the man by the Sea of Galilee (Luke 8:26-39)? They said, "Jesus, have you come to torment us before the time?" It says they're reserved for judgment they know that they are chained to this world by circumstances waiting for their judgment. And the only thing they can do for their "prison recreation" is to tempt and torment people to try and take humans with them for they know their time is short. That's why they plead, "If you're going to cast us out of the man, at least let us possess the pigs."

Satan and his angels are restricted to this planet. And compared to the glory of God's presence where they used to live, can you imagine how dark this world is? When it speaks of chains of darkness, it's making a contrast from their first estate, which is the presence of God and the brilliant glory brighter than the sun.

Earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudepigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. However, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.

I have read some of the apocryphal and pseudepigraphal writings (including the book of Enoch) and they contradict the Bible on many things so that makes them false books. As for the Hebrew writers, if they agreed that the sons of God were fallen angels then they too contradicted the Bible. And obviously their writings are not in the Bible. The sons of God as fallen angels having a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis is not based on God's Word. Its based on uninspired books that have nothing to do with God and His Word.

This does not make me a disciple of Enoch, Satan infuses truth with lies all the time, and I most certainly have never or will never read that book.

I didn't say you were a disciple of Enoch (whoever that Enoch was), I said, "you agree with the book Enoch because that is where that false doctrine comes from. Its not from the Bible at all."

oh and:


Definition of speculate

intransitive verb

1a : to meditate on or ponder a subject

certainly the opposite of to decree as the word of God and disseminate as such

You seem better at English than I am so I wonder where you got that definition of speculate from. I have looked up several dictionaries online and the first definition of speculate is "to form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence." Oxford learners dictionaries says it means "the act of forming opinions about what has happened or what might happen without knowing all the facts." Certainly that is what it means when I use the word as are you lol! And you are speculating on this subject because you have no firm evidence from God's Word to prove your doctrine. It comes from outside the Word of God.

Settle down. you lot are horribly bitter and nasty on this thread.

I may have been candid with you but that doesn't make me horribly bitter and nasty. Telling the truth of God's Word does not make a person bitter and nasty and I am settled down thank you!

Bye.

 

[Oceanic]

I just want to say it's worth mentioning that there's different types of "slavery" in the Bible. And there's a difference between being a slave and being a servant. Angels are servants. God's people are servants.

 

[ARose]

I’m at peace with what God determined for me to know. I have no interest to seek alleged “understanding” of scripture outside scripture. I do not feel compelled to seek claimed epilogues or prologues. I do not seek Biblical knowledge, I seek obedience. Jesus is enough.

Regarding Revelations, I do wonder what major power players in this world have told themselves based on perceived elevated “enlightenment” from interpreting The Bible and potential demonic influence they have allowed into their lives from disobeying God.

That is the beginning and end of my interest in understanding theories about origins and claims of Angelic ancestry or allegiance by many power families.