My critics to the "Believe in Science!" and Coronavac

Mr.Anderson

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Update: Every elderly in my family including my parents have gotten vaccinated and are fine, nobody got autism lol.
One of my grandma took the first dose, she had some problems after it =/
She is ok now, but my aunts won't take her to the second shot.

Now my other grandma is under the bureaucratical procedures to take her first shot, I hope she will be ok.
 

Mr.Anderson

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@Aero Can't say I don't agree with you. Still, taking a rushed medicine that even it's own creators won't take responsability for its side effects or guarantee its effectivity is a bit unnerving, in a sense it's not different than drinking snake oil 'cept it is more fancy. It's like selling overpriced gamer girl bath water to someone in the desert just because it is an emergency. I guess that in the end there is not much to do but comply with it.

@The Agrarian

An example on the reliability of source material. There are so many ways to mess up with it and no one would ever know... I've written just two papers in my life, and if I wanted to mess up with some numbers no one would ever know because no one today in the scientific community is willing to repeat the experiments to check the results

WhatsApp Image 2021-03-12 at 09.43.14.jpeg
 

The Agrarian

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@Aero Can't say I don't agree with you. Still, taking a rushed medicine that even it's own creators won't take responsability for its side effects or guarantee its effectivity is a bit unnerving, in a sense it's not different than drinking snake oil 'cept it is more fancy. It's like selling overpriced gamer girl bath water to someone in the desert just because it is an emergency. I guess that in the end there is not much to do but comply with it.

@The Agrarian

An example on the reliability of source material. There are so many ways to mess up with it and no one would ever know... I've written just two papers in my life, and if I wanted to mess up with some numbers no one would ever know because no one today in the scientific community is willing to repeat the experiments to check the results

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It's insane how the general public just takes the title "Doctor" as some kind of modern High Priest.

Scientists are human. There is money in scientific R&D. There are politics involved in the "correct" scientic conclusion. There is money AND politics involved at universities where people become scientists. Anyone who ISN'T skeptical of the professional-class really needs an exercise in critical observation.
 

Aero

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@Aero Can't say I don't agree with you. Still, taking a rushed medicine that even it's own creators won't take responsability for its side effects or guarantee its effectivity is a bit unnerving, in a sense it's not different than drinking snake oil 'cept it is more fancy. It's like selling overpriced gamer girl bath water to someone in the desert just because it is an emergency. I guess that in the end there is not much to do but comply with it.
It's not snake oil if it works.

Obviously, there are better tools for the job, though. Covid-19 has probably sent holistic medicine back by 10 years. That's not even factoring in the economics side of it.
 

A Freeman

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People can talk all they want about the alleged efficacy of vaccinations, while conveniently overlooking the never-ending list of direct adverse effects (aka "side effects"), which include death.

This goes for ALL vaccines which, combined with other medical errors, are the #1 cause of death in multiple countries, including the U.S. The "CovID-19" vaccine is no exception, other than it was more recklessly rushed to market at record speed.

FACT: The so-called virus that is referred to as "SARS-CoV-2", which supposedly produces the condition being referred to as "CovID-19" has never been isolated, i.e. it has never been separated from any tissue sample and positively identified by the standard protocol known as Koch's postulates.

FACT: Along with having never been positively identified or proven to even exist, "SARS-CoV-2" has never been successfully used to infect a healthy volunteer (also part of the standard protocol using Koch's postulates).

FACT: There is no known test to diagnose whether someone has "CovID-19". The PCR is NOT a test, nor was it ever designed to be a diagnostic tool. Furthermore, it's impossible to test for something that you cannot even prove exists.

FACT: There is no known evidence that what is being referred to as "SARS-CoV-2" ("CovID-19") can actually be spread through contact with bodily fluids of any kind.

FACT: It should be self-evident that if one cannot prove the existence of some alleged disease causing organism, nor that it can infect a healthy cell, and cannot test for it or provide any evidence about how it might spread, it is impossible to develop a "cure" for it.

FACT: No vaccine or pharmaceutical drug of any kind has ever "cured" anyone of anything, so any made-up efficacy studies making claims that we've eradicated other viruses, e.g. the "measles virus" -- which has now been proven not to exist and thus no longer has any legal standing -- are provably false.

FACT: The pharmaceutical company executives have admitted that taking their vaccines won't prevent anyone from getting "SARS-CoV-2" ("CovID-19").

FACT: Today (2005) Americans spend over $2 trillion per year on healthcare so that they may enjoy lifespans that are shorter than 30 other countries around the world and infant mortality rates higher than 20 other developed countries. We consume over half of all the drugs manufactured in the world, picking from over 200,000 non-prescription and over 30,000 prescription drugs that are available. Doctors facilitate this process by writing over 3 billion prescriptions annually. In addition, despite all of these efforts and all of the research money that has gone into fighting cancer, our chances of dying from cancer are no better than they were in 1950. Please research this for yourself if you are skeptical—but conduct your research outside the reach of the “doctored” AMA results and studies.

FACT: Any honest look at the record of medical treatments and vaccines for MMR, HPV, HIV, etc. should leave no doubt that we are injuring, maiming and murdering men, women and young children by the hundreds of thousands. Why would a new vaccine for "CovID-19" be any different, other than to be even more deadly than all the others before it?

FACT: The medical and pharmaceutical industry does NOT make money off of healthy people. They therefore need to perpetuate sickness with their treatments to keep their trillion dollar/pound/shekel/euro industry booming. Drugs, vaccinations and expensive medical procedures are a very lucrative business, with doctors being worshiped these days as "gods", when most of them are, in fact, nothing more than glorified drug pushers.

If someone takes an honest look at these facts, and still believes they should get vaccinated, for "CovID-19" or for anything else, then they deserve what they get.

Please use your God-given common-sense to very carefully research the facts for yourselves, as if your lives depend upon it, which of course they do. If these vaccines were beneficial to human health they would NOT be hurting and killing people. Period.
 
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manama

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One of my grandma took the first dose, she had some problems after it =/
She is ok now, but my aunts won't take her to the second shot.

Now my other grandma is under the bureaucratical procedures to take her first shot, I hope she will be ok.
Pretty sure staying with one shot is more likely to mess up her insides then taking both. Its like taking half the course instead of full course when antibiotics have been prescribed, does more harm than good. Either take both shots or none.
 

A Freeman

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Taking twice as much of the poison (all vaccines are poisonous to the human body, which is why they invoke the body's natural immune response) will only do twice as much damage. If the grandmother has already experienced direct, adverse effects from the first vaccine, how much more evidence does she need not to take the second one?

How many more elderly people need to die from the vaccine before people get it?
 

AmazingGrace

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I've just heard that in the retirement home where my grandma is waiting for a room for years, 13 elderly people recently died. This last year no significant increase in number of deaths, and after vaccination 13 people (if I count correctly it's approximately 1/4 of residents, but I could be wrong). To this day I was taking everything I've read about deaths connected to cov vacc with a grain of salt, but I guess not any longer.
 

The Agrarian

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Taking twice as much of the poison (all vaccines are poisonous to the human body, which is why they invoke the body's natural immune response) will only do twice as much damage. If the grandmother has already experienced direct, adverse effects from the first vaccine, how much more evidence does she need not to take the second one?

How many more elderly people need to die from the vaccine before people get it?
You might this interesting:
This doctor in Poland mocked vaccine skeptics, takes the jab, straight-up dies after getting said jab. The local press is trying to reframe the story but it went viral in Eastern Europe.

 

manama

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You might this interesting:
This doctor in Poland mocked vaccine skeptics, takes the jab, straight-up dies after getting said jab. The local press is trying to reframe the story but it went viral in Eastern Europe.

He was a heart patient and had suffered cardiac arrest before. Anybody who knows what a heart attack is usually knows that the third one is often fatal which is exactly what happened. He died month after vaccination, not "straight up dies after jab".

Stop trying to twist an innocent death to fit your narrative, it is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
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williejonesjr

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While I was in pharmacy school we have been taught about two disasters in recent medicine story. First was the talidomide disaster and then the Tuskegee Experiment.

First I'll write some stuff and then connect them all later, right? So don't become confused.

The "science is always right" hysteria -

The common populace think it is a folly to be distrutful of vaccines, specially the new coronavac, and they keep repeating the motto "believe in science!" or "but it is backed up by science!" or similar.

Well, it might have been a valid point until the early 2000's where the science in general was still young, specially considering the exponential growth of new discoveries. This same exponential rate of new inventions gave birth to the somewhat famous "publish or perish" mentality that plagues the academic world nowadays. It was already a problem when I started college back in 2009, it is a worse problem by now.

Publish or Perish, Publication Bias, Replication Crisis, Negative Results and so many others are just some of the current problems that the scientific community faces right now. It has come to a point that even if a paper is published we can't be sure that it is true or not after all. Today's science has become a business and not a sincere try to understand nature.

The Tuskegee and Guatemala Experiments -

The Tuskegee University, somewhere in Alabama, realized an experiment that ran from 1932 to 1972 using the local black community. First they innoculated local black people with sifilis without their consent and then simply let the disease go untreated to see how it would develop. Meanwhile, the people envolved with the tuskegee experiment did the same in Guatemala, with the local government approval.

They lied to the locals, saying that they were receiving free health care when they were actually being used as lab rats.

The Talidomide Crisis -

Talidomide was an antiemetic drug that was widely used around the 60's. It came in two forms, the L-Talidomide and the D-Talidomide. Both were synthetised at the same time, and it was a pain in the ass to separate them. So they just put them two togheter in the pill and sold it. While one of the forms of the talidomide was deemed safe, the other one had no effect besides being teratogenic. Lots of babies were born with birth defects and this disaster led to the clinical experiments that we use today. But it took a real long time until the link between the drug and the birth defects was made.

What I mean by telling you all of this -

The point here is: we've seen the government experimenting with people before, more than once. We can't really trust scientific papers anymore, and they are rushing the coronavac and we can't be sure of the future damage they will bring. What makes me more worried is that there were at least three drugs that were controversial about their effectiveness (Ivermectine, Hydroxicloroquine and Nitazoxamide) but at least here in my city worked damm well fine. Any treatment besides Remdensivir and the Vaccine are bashed by scientific papers while the later are pushed and rushed to disregarding what history has taught us. It is almost like we are part of a worldwide tuskegee experiment.

And regarding the coronavac itself: a pregnant woman can't use the rubella vaccine because it might cause miscarriage. I had a cousin who had a miscarriage because she took a shot and didn't knew she was pregnant. Also it is well known that the dengue fever models we have right now might cause even worse problems later on, and the scientists still didn't figured how to solve them.

In a sense, the guys who say "trust the science" actually are missing important lessons that history and science itself has taught us.

And as final worlds: if any of you or people you know still believe this is nuts, what would you think if you lived in the 40's and someone told you that the USA was working a bomb that could level a whole city in a matter of seconds? And how did they hid project Manhattan for so long? Experiment Tuskegee dragged on for 40 years dammit.
Trust the science = trust the marketing
 

A Freeman

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He was a heart patient and had suffered cardiac arrest before. Anybody who knows what a heart attack is usually knows that the third one is often fatal which is exactly what happened. He died month after vaccination, not "straight up dies after jab".

Stop trying to twist an innocent death to fit your narrative, it is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
According to the article:

Dr. Witold Rogiewicz's first vaccination: 4 January 2021

Dr. Witold Rogiewicz's second vaccination: 26 January 2021

Dr. Witold Rogiewicz's death: 15 February 2021

One of the listed direct, adverse effects of the vaccine: death.

From another article on the incident at: https://freedomfirstnetwork.com/2021/03/doctor-who-mocked-coronavirus-vaccine-refusers-dies-days-after-getting-jabbed --

The official story is that Dr. Rogiewicz died of “heart failure,” but it is painfully obvious that he suffered the most serious adverse event of all associated with the vaccine: death.

-------

What should hopefully also be painfully obvious is that anyone whose body is already weakened by a pre-existing condition will be less able to fight off being poisoned. Dr. Witold Rogiewicz received the second dose of poison on 26 January 2021, and died less than 3 weeks later, when his body reacted to the cumulative effect of the poisoning by having another heart-attack (MI).

As has been reported, several versions of the vaccine have caused widespread clotting issues, so it isn't surprising that the poisonous vaccine precipitated the heart-attack. In fact it's the only logical explanation. It's also Divine Justice.

There have been hundreds of thousands of deaths by a variety of different causes over the past year or so across the globe, including motorcycle and car crashes, where the victims' official cause of death was listed as "CovID-19". Even those who have died within hours of taking the vaccine have reportedly been listed as "CovID-19 deaths", to hide the toxic nature of the vaccine. The vaccine has also had devastating effects on the elderly in nursing homes, likewise because their bodies were already in a weakened state, and could not overcome the poison. And sadly, many of the elderly were not given any choice, and were too weak to fight back.

This truth may be very difficult for someone in the medical profession to hear, but it is what everyone in the medical profession NEEDS to hear.
 

manama

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Who to believe? The man's own daughter citing his medical history or random antivax sites who don't understand basic virology?
 

Mr.Anderson

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random antivax sites who don't understand basic virology
This isn't an antivax rant. The covid vaccine in particular, all of them, are just way too young to be deployed in such a careless way and neither the government nor the labs are willing to be liable of any kind of side or adverse effects. All the other drugs being used today are constantly monitorated for unespected adverse effects, that's why we know that one day you're taking your osteoporosis drug and the other day your whole dang face collapse from the inside out.

Pregnant women can't take rubella vaccine, people with lupus can't take measles vaccine, dengue fever vaccines have been in development for over 10 years and it still isn't ready because they can make the disease worse instead of immunizing you against it. And still, we have over 4 types of covid vaccine and all of them are just perfect.

I'm not even opposing taking it if you want to. It's just that this gross superestimation of the safety (i'm not even glossing effectiveness) is bothering me, a lot. Heck, even pfizer itself don't underestimate their other medicine like they are doing with the vaccine, if you search on how those little medication inserts are done you'll see what I mean. This is dangerous because if we oversee connections between preexisting conditions vs. vaccinations we might end up with a unrefined, dangerous vaccine in the market.

If you don't brush your teeth you'll end up with a rotten heart, FFS. These are two unseemingly unrelated conditions at first sight and still they are connected.

Am I that hard to understand?
 

manama

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This isn't an antivax rant. The covid vaccine in particular, all of them, are just way too young to be deployed in such a careless way and neither the government nor the labs are willing to be liable of any kind of side or adverse effects. All the other drugs being used today are constantly monitorated for unespected adverse effects, that's why we know that one day you're taking your osteoporosis drug and the other day your whole dang face collapse from the inside out.

Pregnant women can't take rubella vaccine, people with lupus can't take measles vaccine, dengue fever vaccines have been in development for over 10 years and it still isn't ready because they can make the disease worse instead of immunizing you against it. And still, we have over 4 types of covid vaccine and all of them are just perfect.

I'm not even opposing taking it if you want to. It's just that this gross superestimation of the safety (i'm not even glossing effectiveness) is bothering me, a lot. Heck, even pfizer itself don't underestimate their other medicine like they are doing with the vaccine, if you search on how those little medication inserts are done you'll see what I mean. This is dangerous because if we oversee connections between preexisting conditions vs. vaccinations we might end up with a unrefined, dangerous vaccine in the market.

If you don't brush your teeth you'll end up with a rotten heart, FFS. These are two unseemingly unrelated conditions at first sight and still they are connected.

Am I that hard to understand?
I'm talking to the person quoting sites with blatant misinformation about a man's death when his own family has said otherwise.
Covid vaccine in particular has problems, yes. Plus there are way too many types of covid vaccines out in the market now, each different from the other thus would react differently. You can quote actual reasons for problem with the vaccine without twisting an innocent man's death to fit the narrative.
 

The Agrarian

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This isn't an antivax rant. The covid vaccine in particular, all of them, are just way too young to be deployed in such a careless way and neither the government nor the labs are willing to be liable of any kind of side or adverse effects. All the other drugs being used today are constantly monitorated for unespected adverse effects, that's why we know that one day you're taking your osteoporosis drug and the other day your whole dang face collapse from the inside out.

Pregnant women can't take rubella vaccine, people with lupus can't take measles vaccine, dengue fever vaccines have been in development for over 10 years and it still isn't ready because they can make the disease worse instead of immunizing you against it. And still, we have over 4 types of covid vaccine and all of them are just perfect.

I'm not even opposing taking it if you want to. It's just that this gross superestimation of the safety (i'm not even glossing effectiveness) is bothering me, a lot. Heck, even pfizer itself don't underestimate their other medicine like they are doing with the vaccine, if you search on how those little medication inserts are done you'll see what I mean. This is dangerous because if we oversee connections between preexisting conditions vs. vaccinations we might end up with a unrefined, dangerous vaccine in the market.

If you don't brush your teeth you'll end up with a rotten heart, FFS. These are two unseemingly unrelated conditions at first sight and still they are connected.

Am I that hard to understand?
Not even the experts "trust the experts". They accelerated the development and distribution without any thought of public welfare in a totally irresponsible manner.

I think in few years we're gonna be reaping the nasty consequences ten-fold.

 

The Agrarian

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I'm talking to the person quoting sites with blatant misinformation about a man's death when his own family has said otherwise.
Covid vaccine in particular has problems, yes. Plus there are way too many types of covid vaccines out in the market now, each different from the other thus would react differently. You can quote actual reasons for problem with the vaccine without twisting an innocent man's death to fit the narrative.
You do realize his family has a vested interest in refusing to criticize the vaccination program, right?
 

manama

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You do realize his family has a vested interest in refusing to criticize the vaccination program, right?
All of them got vaccinated as well. And they probably know more about their dad's medical history than you.
 
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It's insane how the general public just takes the title "Doctor" as some kind of modern High Priest.

Scientists are human. There is money in scientific R&D. There are politics involved in the "correct" scientic conclusion. There is money AND politics involved at universities where people become scientists. Anyone who ISN'T skeptical of the professional-class really needs an exercise in critical observation.
100% Agree - not all MDs, PhDs, Nurses are created equally. I will say I hold Pharmacists to a higher standard ;-) due to the level of chemistry required and that by itself tends to weed out those, let’s just say, not so bright... But absolutely this is true and critical for people to understand.
 

B_JMNN

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The funny thing to me is that Science is like a new religion. You put faith in it, you believe in it, and you trust it. Just like how people whom are spiritual/religious all put trust, faith, and believe in a higher power.

Science, I figured, is how we can explain the physical reality of the world we live in. The things we can touch, taste, feel, see and hear. Like how Music Theory is used to explain Music, but is not the definition to how Music should be played, and how some music is harder to transcribe. Just like how some Science and Theories are hard to prove.
 
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