Misconceptions About Wicca

[DesertRose]

You might want to look into how incantation actually works.

Walaykumusalaam brother, I did and the system (the people on our path) use to counteract magic utilizes Quranic verses and supplications/prayers not incantations. I personally, would never accept any other means especially using words I do not understand etc as a treatment
“And We send down of the Qur’an that which is a healing and a mercy for the believers”
[Surah Al Israa : 82]
https://islamqa.info/en/12918
posted a new video on this at the Islamic videos thread.

 

[grateful servant]

You're being paranoid. That's not Tanya / tatalina

Yes it is.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Walaykumusalaam brother, I did and the system (the people on our path) use to counteract magic utilizes Quranic verses and supplications/prayers not incantations. I personally, would never accept any other means especially using words I do not understand etc as a treatment
“And We send down of the Qur’an that which is a healing and a mercy for the believers”
[Surah Al Israa : 82]
https://islamqa.info/en/12918
posted a new video on this at the Islamic videos thread.

The word ruqya means incantations
Look it up in Hadith
The prophet Saw used the Quran Quran if verses but his ruling was that any type was allowed as long as it contained no shirk or evil/harm.
Ie for healing it was allowed.

Also the defenition of ruqya is....incantation hence ruqya is def magic.

 

[DesertRose]

The word ruqya means incantations
Look it up in Hadith
The prophet Saw used the Quran Quran if verses but his ruling was that any type was allowed as long as it contained no shirk or evil/harm.
Ie for healing it was allowed.

Also the defenition of ruqya is....incantation hence ruqya is def magic.

Ruqyah - Spiritual Healing would be better words to use than the English word incantation.
https://www.missionislam.com/health/ruqiyahrecitation.html
Excerpt
Ruqyah is commonly translated in English as "incantation" which carries a negative meaning, since the word incantation is usually associated with magic, spells, and witchcraft. However, Ruqyah in Islam is the recitation of Qur'an, seeking of refuge, remembrance and supplications that are used as a means of treating sicknesses and other problems.)

Ruqyah are of two types:

1) Ruqyah Ash Shar'eeya (DR: shariah means Islamic jurisprudence)
2) Ruqyah Ash Shirkiyah (shirk means associating partners to Allah)

Ar-Ruqyah Ash Shar'eeyah : mentioned above, it has three conditions. Ibn Hajar (rahimuhullah) said there is a consensus on the using of Ruqyah if three conditions are met:

1) It must be with the speech of Allah (Qur'aan) and his names and attributes.

2) It must be in the Arabic language, or what is known to be its meaning in other languages.

3) To believe that Ruqyah has no benefit by itself, but the benefits are from Allah.

This type of Ruqyah is permissible and is the main subject of this topic.

Ar Ruqyah Ash Shirkiyah: this contradicts the conditions of Ruqyah Ash Shar'eeyah and has in it Shirk, associating partners with Allah. It leads a person to his destruction in this life and the next and increases calamities and sicknesses. This type of Ruqyah is prohibited, from the statement of the Prophet (saws) This type includes: Magic (whether learning, practicing, or teaching it), Fortune telling, Horoscopes, superstitious belief, and at-Tameemah ( charms and amulets).

 

[Aero]

I just find some of your claims too outrageous not to challenge them. Maybe, you are just kidding when you make these claims. Are you? Or are you a warlock? A cult lead with a following other than here or whatever it was you said. Or an MKUV hoping they don't tap into your super soldier side? I need a scorecard...but it is all cool if this is your thing.

I am pretty sure if you went to the ole doc with the questions you listed...

But are we Illuminati witches and warlocks?

Like have any of you ever suffered some type of damage to one eye?

Have one lazy eye as a child?

Do you glow in the dark?

Do you have tourette syndrome?

Does your skin ever feel like it's melting off, or transforming?

...might raise an eyebrow or two. That is why I asked if you were kidding and I just don't get the joke. I really like the glow in the dark question. I have seen some people glow at raves and all but ...

Sorry for sidetracking the thread. I have seen a coven of Wiccans on a regular basis at a river near my house. There is a network of sites on a popular river with plenty of woods art each one. They do love their nature and occasional nighttime gatherings.

Yes we know. We have heard you, all of the dozen or so times you have said the same thing. You are clearly not interested in this type of subject matter. You think common Mk Ultra themes are outrageous.

I guess it is kind of outrageous to think somebody would scream at a child. Telling the kid they are going to eat their heart out. But it happened to a lot of us. And there isn't much else I can say to you, other than go fuck yourself.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@DesertRose
Ruqyah simply means 'incantation'. Ruqyah ash Shariah is like saying 'lawful incantations'.

Here's the best hadith presenting it's proper context.

(11) Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported I had a maternal uncle who treated the sting of the scorpion with the help of incantation. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade incantation. He came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, you forbade to practise incantation, whereas I employ it for curing the sting of the scorpion, whereupon he said: He who amongst you is capable of employing it as a means to do good should do that. (Book #026, Hadith #5454)

The issue here is that the term ruqyah is neither negative or positive on it's own but of course the prophet SAW separated what was good from the bad.
Incantation is definitely magic.
We use the Quran for our incantations and there are people who practice hoodoo who use the bible, esp the psalms.

You say 'spiritual healing' ....i say 'white magic'
it's the same thing.
As long as it contains no harm and no shirk, it is all lawful.

I'm a christian and I agree with Islam on this one, there is N O "good" magic, all is evil and God sees it as dispicable and revolting. As do I.

The topic of 'magic' is huge today amongst muslims because these days it is widespread due to the gradual decline of proper islam.
A lot of fake faith healers appear and they practice deception in order to con people for money/control etc.
As a result of this a few conscientious muslims have written that all types of 'magic' is 'sihr' (which really refers to black magic ie the type that harms, summons evil entities etc) and that there is no 'good magic'.
some may have been outright skeptics but some did it in order to protect people from fake faith healers.

However
'magic' is simply anything meta that causes physical results.
so here we're talking about 'incantations'.
i've presented my pov of the topic of 'ruqyah' (incantations) where you have a good type and a forbidden type. The rule is simple, if it contains traces of polythiesm (this inc calling on entities) or it causes any harm..it is haram.

In hebrew the word for incantation is 'lachash'
http://bibleapps.com/hebrew/3908.htm
it has both good and bad implications obv dependong on how it's used
as ive said in islam the ruling is simple, as long as it contains no evil or polythiesm it is allowed in islam.

eg
Isaiah 26:16
16 O LORD , they sought You in distress; They could only whisper a prayer, Your chastening was upon them.
referring to incantations

 

[Etagloc]

Mhmm... suuuuure.... sounds like witchcraft if you ask me!!! burn him at the steak!!!!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I find your comments about mental illness to be over the line.

And once again it's someone on my nuts like Crowley, but I'm the cultist?

Mk Ultra isn't hard to explain. My heart was cannibalized as a child. You just either have rocks for brains or are the most tone deaf person in the world.

If anyone has truly been through MK Ultra, I would imagine it would be a 'defining' experience, and that many other experiences would be re-interpreted in the light of that memory?

 

[The Zone]

Yes we know. We have heard you, all of the dozen or so times you have said the same thing. You are clearly not interested in this type of subject matter. You think common Mk Ultra themes are outrageous.

I guess it is kind of outrageous to think somebody would scream at a child. Telling the kid they are going to eat their heart out. But it happened to a lot of us. And there isn't much else I can say to you, other than go fuck yourself.

Wow, triggered, I guess. Where have I ever said I do not buy into MK Ultra?

I am truly sorry if you were abused as a child and I am not trying to make that seem trivial in any way and feel for any person who has been. However, I think you underestimate that many others went through traumatic experiences as well.

Plus, are you talking MK or Wicca for I am confused? You really are attributing a lot to me which is not true while I have merely quoted your claims. Dude, if you are going to discuss some things, it will be met with occasional skepticism and retort.

You are more than welcome to challenge my personal claims and analogies as well. And what is this we have heard you? Who is we? . Don't play the victim, man. You make a lot of good analogies at times but then kind of kill it with some added stuff which is not exactly the norm.

I am just the kind of person who remembers things people say . While I think all you mentioned can be true in the cases of people, I just have a hard time thinking one person can have all of this at play in real life.

You seem very sensitive for somebody who makes such strong comments, so with that said, I will try to lay off. But, just be real man. I am not trying to run you off and you are established here and like to post a lot. Have at it, but I challenge many claims here, so I am not just picking on you but comments which are fair game. And, again, it is not personal. It's the things you say sometime that get me going, not you as a person...the same kind of person I would give a helping hand to if they were truly in need as I would anyone.

I have no issue with anyone talking about Wicca or any other religion. Also, healthy or not -- I'd be all over that steak Etagloc pictured.

 

[grateful servant]

0 _o tsk tsk.

Do not attack forum members on a personal level. This includes insults, name calling, flaming, baiting and repeated harassment.
Do not create alternate or "sock puppet" accounts. This will result in the permanent ban of all accounts.

 

[DesertRose]

Brother that the interpreters use a loaded English word incantations is lamentable, however I see that you differentiated the practices which is good.
Like you I find that the masses have become deluded between the permissible and impermissible methods of healing unfortunately.

 

[Aero]

TheZone is fine. He is just seriously out of his depth in these kind of discussions. And I'm fine to help anyone learn, even if it gets a bit frustrating at times. Like how I'm not supposed to play the victim, but nobody will believe me if I don't. That doesn't make sense, but I've talked about this a little bit before. The child personality in me is the victim.

When I see "we" I'm talking about other child victims of MK. And while I don't know them personally, the themes and symbols are all over their art. I can cite countless song lyrics and imagery for you, but that's something anyone with Google can find out on their own. And yes it's hard to imagine how "one" person can have all that shit going on in their life. But again that's why some people are out of their depth. Multiple personalities means we aren't one person. We have many lives going on at once.

Lastly MK doesn't relate to Wicca per say. But it relates to the ancient art of magic. So they are both connected to the same esoteric knowledge. Chakras, auras, demonology, and rituals are all part of MK Ultra. They didn't target kids hearts for fun. They did it to create an alter ego, a monster of an alter ego actually.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

TheZone is fine. He is just seriously out of his depth in these kind of discussions. And I'm fine to help anyone learn, even if it gets a bit frustrating at times. Like how I'm not supposed to play the victim, but nobody will believe me if I don't. That doesn't make sense, but I've talked about this a little bit before. The child personality in me is the victim.

When I see "we" I'm talking about other child victims of MK. And while I don't know them personally, the themes and symbols are all over their art. I can cite countless song lyrics and imagery for you, but that's something anyone with Google can find out on their own. And yes it's hard to imagine how "one" person can have all that shit going on in their life. But again that's why some people are out of their depth. Multiple personalities means we aren't one person. We have many lives going on at once.

Lastly MK doesn't relate to Wicca per say. But it relates to the ancient art of magic. So they are both connected to the same esoteric knowledge. Chakras, auras, demonology, and rituals are all part of MK Ultra. They didn't target kids hearts for fun. They did it to create an alter ego, a monster of an alter ego actually.

If you've been through this Aero, I'm really sorry for what it has taken from you. I understand about triggers and weak areas. Having not been through a fraction of that trauma, there are still things that push mine and leave me feeling almost like a bystander in my communication patterns. Knowing this I guard against it as well as I can.

I remember a phrase "the banality of evil" and catching up here the sheer dullness of sin is evident.

I remember reading this quote years ago when reading "That Hideous Strength" and not fully understanding it...

"Have you ever noticed,” said Dimble, “that the universe, and every bit of the universe is always hardening and narrowing and coming to a point?”
His wife waited as those wait who know by long experience the mental processes of the person who is talking to them.
“I mean this,” said Dimble in answer to the question she had not asked. “If you dip into any college, or school, or parish, or family – anything you like – at a given point in its history, you always find that there was a time before that point when there was more elbow room and contrasts weren’t quite so sharp; and that there’s going to be a time after that point when there is even less room for indecision and choices are even more momentous. Good is always getting better and bad is always getting worse: the possibilities of even apparent neutrality are always diminishing. The whole thing is sorting itself out all the time, coming to a point, getting sharper and harder."

C.S. Lewis, That Hideous Strength

 

[Faker He-Man]

Yeah, I normally do not post these kind of things on a gut. I have just seen the former enough to know she has no good intent other than serving her own needs. It is not her style to stay away for long. I would not call seeing trends paranoid, but apologies if this is indeed a new poster and feel free to remove my post. I don't think I am the only one to notice the possibility tho.

Full confession: I had the same hunch before checking. Strangely it turns out there were at least two separate individuals posting from that account, so we were both correct. All posts are gone now, so too late to know for sure who was whom (oh well, it's not as if I would've cared enough to find out anyway)

 

[The Zone]

I don't see that it was two different people at all. Maybe one of her alters, but that was 100% Annabelle. Where do you get that it was two different people?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't see that it was two different people at all. Maybe one of her alters, but that was 100% Annabelle. Where do you get that it was two different people?

I wouldn't want to comment on the identity of "Annabelle Walker" other than to say my parents used to hold a Bible study at their house. One week a guy came who was a long term Heroin addict and he wanted to come out of it. He came to a saving faith in Jesus and at the same time he came off Heroin with no cold turkey.

Talk about a 'wow' moment!

Everyone thought this was great and he was held up as a shining example of the power of God... Till he got tempted and went back to the drugs. It was tempting to write him off and think some people are beyond forgiveness and help.

The story had a sequel however, the guy knew that he had taken the wrong road and after a binge that nearly killed him he went into rehab, and this time with the coldest of turkeys, came through, even went to Bible school and is a Christian minister today.

My point is that we should not be too quick to judge. All sin is black in the eyes of a holy God, and all of us need forgiveness and grace.

 

[The Zone]

I wouldn't want to comment on the identity of "Annabelle Walker" other than to say my parents used to hold a Bible study at their house. One week a guy came who was a long term Heroin addict and he wanted to come out of it. He came to a saving faith in Jesus and at the same time he came off Heroin with no cold turkey.

Talk about a 'wow' moment!

Everyone thought this was great and he was held up as a shining example of the power of God... Till he got tempted and went back to the drugs. It was tempting to write him off and think some people are beyond forgiveness and help.

The story had a sequel however, the guy knew that he had taken the wrong road and after a binge that nearly killed him he went into rehab, and this time with the coldest of turkeys, came through, even went to Bible school and is a Christian minister today.

My point is that we should not be too quick to judge. All sin is black in the eyes of a holy God, and all of us need forgiveness and grace.

I get what you are saying and agree that people can come to Christ or religion. On the other hand, they can go full on black. People in this forum welcomed A at first. There was no witch hunt or judgement cast her way. But then she started showing a side of her that was the very definition of deception. She has a long history here where her intent is to hurt others and blame them for her personal issues. Some people need more help than just coming to God. They need mental health. They also have to want that help and seek it with a true heart.

I agree that God has not given up on her and hope she knows that, but she has also had numerous counts of fake atonement. That said, she has a long ways to go to earn real trust. I am not sure if you saw how dark here comments were and the pictures she showed and threats she made before they were removed. If you want an example, I cut and pasted some of them I can send you. You would have thought her to be demon and not human.

While Christ or God can cast these out and make a person whole by His choosing, it does not alter the fact that her negative energy drains every soul here with evil intent. There was a time when I felt for her and still do, but God also warns us of picking up snakes with the common sense he allowed us. If it is His will for her to come about then I am all for that. But a person who disrupts things as she does belongs in a room until better away from those she can and willingly does harm to.

Lastly, I more than understand I have my own sins to contend with but I in no way try to lay that at others feet save God nor does anyone else here on the whole. This forum is about sharing and learning/ Any one individual who comes in and makes the whole place about them needs the discipline they get. And they need to stay away until they get the help they so desperately need. Some people are simply capable of giving any religion they choose a bad rap, even Wiccans. If a person truly wants help, they don't go about getting it in a forum like this, but granted, could be spurred on by an act of kindness in one. The question is, how many acts of kindness are necessary? And how many people do we stand by and watch get hurt and insulted for a single persons rage? Why should we be forced to live in their unhappy madness and constantly have to wash all that negative energy off?

 

[JoChris]

I get what you are saying and agree that people can come to Christ or religion. On the other hand, they can go full on black. People in this forum welcomed A at first. There was no witch hunt or judgement cast her way. But then she started showing a side of her that was the very definition of deception. She has a long history here where her intent is to hurt others and blame them for her personal issues. Some people need more help than just coming to God. They need mental health. They also have to want that help and seek it with a true heart.

I agree that God has not given up on her and hope she knows that, but she has also had numerous counts of fake atonement. That said, she has a long ways to go to earn real trust. I am not sure if you saw how dark here comments were and the pictures she showed and threats she made before they were removed. If you want an example, I cut and pasted some of them I can send you. You would have thought her to be demon and not human.

While Christ or God can cast these out and make a person whole by His choosing, it does not alter the fact that her negative energy drains every soul here with evil intent. There was a time when I felt for her and still do, but God also warns us of picking up snakes with the common sense he allowed us. If it is His will for her to come about then I am all for that. But a person who disrupts things as she does belongs in a room until better away from those she can and willingly does harm to.

Lastly, I more than understand I have my own sins to contend with but I in no way try to lay that at others feet save God nor does anyone else here on the whole. This forum is about sharing and learning and any one individual who comes in and makes the whole place about them self needs the discipline they get and to stay away until they get the help they so desperately need. Some people are simply capable of giving any religion they choose a bad rap, even Wiccans. If a person truly wants help, they don;t go about getting it in a forum but could be spurred on by an act of kindness in one. The question is, how many acts of kindness is necessary? And how many people do we stand by and watch get hurt and insulted for a single person? Why should we be forced to live in their unhappy madness and constantly have to wash all that negative energy off?

I think both you and Red Sky are right.The most unloveable backsliders and repeat offenders can be forgiven by God, but they may need to bear the actual consequences of their sins and wrongdoings despite being forgiven.

Forgiveness is a gift, trust needs to be earned. I don't know how any person could earn that trust back from other people, the content was so evil and malicious.

 

[grateful servant]

Full confession: I had the same hunch before checking. Strangely it turns out there were at least two separate individuals posting from that account, so we were both correct. All posts are gone now, so too late to know for sure who was whom (oh well, it's not as if I would've cared enough to find out anyway)

how did you check? You mean there's a way to see where a post is coming from or do you have to be IT savvy to know? Just curious...

 

[Faker He-Man]

Telepathy. I understand if you all think I am insane.