METAPHYSICAL OBJECTS OF POWER DISCUSSION

[JoChris]

I have also studied both fathers of modern psychology - what do you make of Jung's interest in the Occult? Would you interpret it as being the psychological equivalent of writing 'here be dragons' on a map where term 'occult' is merely a substitutionary term for the lack of knowledge of something beyond our reach?

Carl Jung was involved with the occult. He had "a spirit guide" he claimed was imaginary but yet real.
From New Age friendly site. http://philipcoppens.com/jung.html
From Christian site:http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/jungleg.html

 

[manama]

They are real and a big problem in the south asia
The black magicians aka satan worshippers act as good religious priests and give people this talismans to "Solve" their problem which ends up destroying the person's life
Its such a huge problem that in KSA they arrest or execute the black magicians
the talisman or amulet acts like a instruction for the demons
Many religious people here warn people against these because the talisman works by the magician doing all sort of evil stuff and worshipping demons and in return the demons agree to do the job by destroying the lives of the person having the amulet and even sometimes possessing him

My own mother told me that my grandfather used to be very sick and the doctors couldnt find any problem since every test came back showing no problem, it got really worse and he used to feel pain and then numbness in his body over and over again and this continued till he died.
After his funeral when my mother and grandma decided to clean the house they found weird black demon type small dolls with needles embedded in them in the same places my granddad used to feel pain in.

In the hospital i work at (nurse) there was a case where a man has breathing problems and extreme pain anyhow something happened and they did surgery and during surgery the doctors found actual chains wrapped around the guy's esophagus like actual thin iron chains and turns out the guy had a talisman with similar chain around it in his house smh

When me and my family moved to our new house during cleaning we found a bunch of pages with quranic or biblical verses the difference being that in the entire verses God's name was replaced with Satan's name and also there were weird writings and names and images including animals with stars in them it was really scary and we had to talk to an imam who made us wash the pages with water and recite Quran in house and it got me really excited about wanting to know more about this stuff BUT bad decision , the videos of explanation gave me nightmares

 

[JoChris]

... it got me really excited about wanting to know more about this stuff BUT bad decision , the videos of explanation gave me nightmares

After I had read a chapter in a book about alternative spiritual practices I felt very troubled and unsettled for days after. I had to repent and ask for God's forgiveness for my excessive curiousity about areas I knew full well are condemned in the bible.

Books, videos etc about the occult are not neutral information sources. They are indoctrination tools. If they don't convince you to join in, they'll torment you for not joining in. It's playing with fire literally.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yeah I probably would actually. I think his interest in the Occult came from his subconscious, or the collective unconscious. Which is out of reach, but we can understand the symbols and gain knowledge from it.

It's not fresh in my brain but Lacan had a lot of ideas about the subconscious I like. He's hard to understand though

My wife did a Psychology degree and two Post-Grad courses in the subject when we were first married. I ended up researching and reading a lot of their ideas. I could see the logic and elegance if their arguments...

However -

I have to say that I came to the conclusion that Freud reinterpreted the soul from from an atheistic framework whilst Jung embraced his esoteric research and was seduced by deceiving spirits. If their starting points were correct the ideas they built on them would have merit, however, if those basic assumptions are in error, then theories built on them will be in error also.

As such, godless forms of Psychology may actually be a flimsy house built on shaky foundations (presuming God is real and the Bible is his revelation of himself - perhaps an unproven assumption for discussion on a different thread!)

 

[manama]

After I had read a chapter in a book about alternative spiritual practices I felt very troubled and unsettled for days after. I had to repent and ask for God's forgiveness for my excessive curiousity about areas I knew full well are condemned in the bible.

Books, videos etc about the occult are not neutral information sources. They are indoctrination tools. If they don't convince you to join in, they'll torment you for not joining in. It's playing with fire literally.

Most videos i watched were actually religious since they were telling us ho this stuff works and why we should stay away from them or how to recognize them etc since like i said its a huge problem in middle east and south asia but it was still scary nonethless

 

[JoChris]

That is interesting. Why do you think it is more common there than in most Western countries?

 

[manama]

That is interesting. Why do you think it is more common there than in most Western countries?

It happens in the western countries as well but since most people don't believe in it
they cant actually sell the talisman etc and thus nobody cares

whereas in south asian countries there is this retarded jealousy people have that you have to be the very best in family etc then also most people think that talisman are part of religion
and its weird that even some muslims believe in it even though islam says that going to a magician and seeking his help kills your prayers for 40 days but people still do it thinking its okay and also because most magicians are disguised as religious priests
Another thing is most these magicians/occult people are from poor families and they make satan their lord and seek his help for money and fame

And there are people who are so overcome with jealousy and envy and hatred that they intentionally go to these satan worshippers and give them huge sum of money just so the magician can destroy someone who they hate

 

[UnspokenSoliloquy]

It happens in the western countries as well but since most people don't believe in it
they cant actually sell the talisman etc and thus nobody cares

whereas in south asian countries there is this retarded jealousy people have that you have to be the very best in family etc then also most people think that talisman are part of religion
and its weird that even some muslims believe in it even though islam says that going to a magician and seeking his help kills your prayers for 40 days but people still do it thinking its okay and also because most magicians are disguised as religious priests
Another thing is most these magicians/occult people are from poor families and they make satan their lord and seek his help for money and fame

And there are people who are so overcome with jealousy and envy and hatred that they intentionally go to these satan worshippers and give them huge sum of money just so the magician can destroy someone who they hate

wow thanks for shining a light on these practices.

 

[Aero]

My wife did a Psychology degree and two Post-Grad courses in the subject when we were first married. I ended up researching and reading a lot of their ideas. I could see the logic and elegance if their arguments...

However -

I have to say that I came to the conclusion that Freud reinterpreted the soul from from an atheistic framework whilst Jung embraced his esoteric research and was seduced by deceiving spirits. If their starting points were correct the ideas they built on them would have merit, however, if those basic assumptions are in error, then theories built on them will be in error also.

As such, godless forms of Psychology may actually be a flimsy house built on shaky foundations (presuming God is real and the Bible is his revelation of himself - perhaps an unproven assumption for discussion on a different thread!)

"Symbols in fact envelop the life of man in a network so total that they join together ... the shape of his destiny"

God is only a symbol if we are talking about what's real. It's a meaningless formula that a person can call anything. "Hell" is more real in that imaginary sense. But what's really real when it comes to religion is the subliminal messaging of the church. It shouldn't matter if psychology is godless, they want you as a patient, not as a convert.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

"Symbols in fact envelop the life of man in a network so total that they join together ... the shape of his destiny"

God is only a symbol if we are talking about what's real. It's a meaningless formula that a person can call anything.

I agree in the sense that if somebody deifies anything, be it a man, a woman, money, or any other thing, it becomes his/her god. God Forbid though!

Have you ever tried like feeling the Presence of The One Who's Sight is on every particle of the universe, and accepting to let Him into your heart, like just simply believing that He Ever Watches and Hears and Maintains everything constantly?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"Symbols in fact envelop the life of man in a network so total that they join together ... the shape of his destiny"

God is only a symbol if we are talking about what's real. It's a meaningless formula that a person can call anything. "Hell" is more real in that imaginary sense. But what's really real when it comes to religion is the subliminal messaging of the church. It shouldn't matter if psychology is godless, they want you as a patient, not as a convert.

Quite poetic Aero, but I'm not quite clear on what you mean?

 

[Aero]

I just mean symbols rule the world. When Jung traveled the world and saw wildly different civilizations performing similar rituals to him, he was on to something. A boy in Europe doing the same rituals as shaman in Africa. Once you see the symbols, patterns emerge.

We can choose to ignore, or not see the unseen. But it's there and the subconscious means everything. You ask if I've tried to feel the "god particle" and I have tried. I went as deep into my own mind as a person could go. Maybe even further.

 

[Camidria]

A boy in Europe doing the same rituals as shaman in Africa.

That is just more proof to me that the same demons are propagating the same type of worship to a specific fallen angel that acts like those people's "deity" under different names

 

[Aero]

That is just more proof to me that the same demons are propagating the same type of worship to a specific fallen angel that acts like those people's "deity" under different names

Yes, Jung said that the Gods of old have simply been replaced. By drugs, alcohol, ideologies and systems. Hidden in all these things people cling to is some influence. I know it's there. I can't even talk or write about demons

 

[Camidria]

I can't even talk or write about demons

Why not?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I just mean symbols rule the world. When Jung traveled the world and saw wildly different civilizations performing similar rituals to him, he was on to something. A boy in Europe doing the same rituals as shaman in Africa. Once you see the symbols, patterns emerge.

We can choose to ignore, or not see the unseen. But it's there and the subconscious means everything. You ask if I've tried to feel the "god particle" and I have tried. I went as deep into my own mind as a person could go. Maybe even further.

'Symbols rule the world, not words or laws'... Now where have I heard that one before!?

In just the short amount of time I have been researching these topics I have seen the star of Ishtar in various guises, the Oroboros, Hermes Trismagistis 'As above, so below', the Swastika, even Osiris and the Djedd pillar cropping up as a light sabre in the hands if a Jedi knight!!!

This common language also equates to disparate cultures who, without apparent contact all seemed to have a bit of a phase on building pyramids...

But surely this leads to the question - why? So, over to the floor - why the symbols? Do they rule? Do they represent a ruler? Are they just popular designs? Opinions welcome!

 

[Camidria]

So, over to the floor - why the symbols? Do they rule? Do they represent a ruler? Are they just popular designs? Opinions welcome!

Perhaps it has to do with this spiritual rule of satan that things must be revealed in a concealed way, so he uses symbols and hidden meanings to that effect?

 

[Aero]

Pretty sure the reason for symbolism does have to do with an ancient language. The language of the animals, that at one time every human understood. But the art has mostly been lost, except for the Luciferians. Maybe I read that on this site, either way it makes sense.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Pretty sure the reason for symbolism does have to do with an ancient language. The language of the animals, that at one time every human understood. But the art has mostly been lost, except for the Luciferians. Maybe I read that on this site, either way it makes sense.

I once played a game called 'Assassins Creed' when I was fast asleep to the messages coming through the entertainment industry. I can remember being barely troubled as the 'creed' was repeated endlessly through the game characters 'nothing is true, everything is permitted'. I say that because the game involved past lives, an 'animus' or device to access these ancestral memories etc. There were strong tones of dualism, end justifying the means and a very odd, almost inverted version of the run up to the book of Revelation as the back story holding it together...

Why do I bring this up? I came across the Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer and Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell where he discusses his theory of the journey of the archetypal hero found in world mythologies. This second book even ended up becoming a template for screenwriters to follow in 'The Writers Journey' where producers of stories for stage and screen follow this well trodden path.

One thing I picked up quickly on the VC website is how repetitive the themes of the 'elite' actually were. Most so called creative work seemed to be another opportunity to wheel out the same old ideas!

Thinking of symbols 'ruling' I couldn't help picture in my minds eye wartime Germany where everything seemed emblazened with the swastika. An uninformed alien landing in Cologne in 1943 could be forgiven for thinking that the country was ruled by them. In truth they were the chosen symbols of the regimen of the National Socialist Party.

In the same way, were the Bible to be believed, man turned over his dominion to the 'god of this world', Lucifer, the self styled 'light bringer'. Just like Hitler, throughout time and place he has draped his symbols and repeated his themes.

Interestingly, the oldest theme of all seems to be apotheosis, or ascention to godhood. This one seems to have infernal fingerprints all over it as that was the original lie. It might also be the final lie that gets embraced by those who reject Jesus and want to be little 'gods' themselves. I guess everyone comes to the point where they make their mind up which side they are on...

 

[manama]

Aww~ there is so much wrong with most games who have a strong lore but that is what makes me love them more