Men are socialized to be rapists

rex

Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
15
The ideal rejection is graceful, grateful, validating, without condescension, without making the man unwelcome in general. When the effort itself is accepted, the effect is disarming. "I'll take in your advances, now you respect my boundaries." It's harder to resist this request when you're treated like a buddy. Model what you expect to see, and you don't even have to get riled up. In my experience it's the best-looking broads that most typically resort to this. Perhaps because they deal with it so much they figure out the path of least resistance, or maybe they get exhausted to the point that they deplete whatever toxic fuel is left in the tank.

If anyone's "afraid" of escalating to harsh language, that is a personal issue in itself.

A real man would immediately recognize and own up to the fact that it was their own behavior that put the other person in an uncomfortable situation in the first place, even if it was completely unintentional
This statement is what actually infantilizes the woman in this situation. The fantasy that you are "made" to feel a certain way by someone's words. To relinquish responsibility for one's thoughts, but simultaneously to dictate the narrative.

Beavis and Butt-Head i loved watching them and thought they were cool.
Holy shit that is so bizarre. Beavis and Butt-Head are shambling, giggling caricatures of stupid losers.
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,766
Likes
7,175
You have a lot of thoughts about how women should “gracefully” reject you... but seemingly refuse to listen to women’s thoughts of how to respectfully approach them.

@yiksmes the entire story you gave indicates only one thing to me. You lack confidence. Men who are successful with women only differ from men who are unsuccessful in that ONE thing. Lack of confidence can be overcome as a woman gets to know you and respects who you are, it can not be overcome by trying to mimic it with some tacky/rude/aggressive pickup tactic
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
909
Likes
1,405
This statement is what actually infantilizes the woman in this situation. The fantasy that you are "made" to feel a certain way by someone's words. To relinquish responsibility for one's thoughts, but simultaneously to dictate the narrative.
Bullshit, you don't get to decide what type of situation makes someone else uncomfortable. Well, technically you can do that if you want to, but it goes against basic human decency since it's highly inconsiderate to put someone else in that position just because you think they are over-reacting.

It's also a lot more than words that define an interaction, by the way. My wife deals with this crap all the time from random men. It's a real creeped-out feeling, like something is not right, and you can't just invalidate it by turning it around and blaming the woman who is already on high alert for her own safety. People have the right to feel relatively safe in public, and you don't get to decide what does or doesn't constitute an uncomfortable situation on behalf of women, sorry.
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,766
Likes
7,175
Personally i think most cat-callers are either drunk, nonchalant or inexperienced.

I remember myself when new term in school started, there was many new students and one girl in particular was very pretty.
I was shy and inexperienced but i thought to myself: Either i do something or i will always be a quitter.

So i said something like: Hey baby or Dayum you're fine! (I don't remember) and she replied: "Ew gross!"
I took it to heart and never spoke to her like that anymore and learned my lesson that cat-calling don't work..

If i would blame myself and ask myself who i imitated then it probably be:
Beavis and Butt-Head i loved watching them and thought they were cool.

But anyway i never dated that girl but i would always buy her flowers on her birthday even though she dated my previous class-mate The Italian Black belt Stallion of the school =))

After few years they broke up and he dated my primary school friend (i gave her few good words about him before they started) and i found out from her that apparently his previous girl always complained on why he couldn't be nice like me. ^_^

So my point is, sometimes we just in a good mood or in a silly mode, we see a beautiful girl and just don't know the right way to give her a compliment...

Sometimes we see a girl dressed in revealing clothes and just want to do a wolf whistle and just don't care of the reaction.
A song comes to mind: Express yourself...

Sometimes we just drunk and stupid... Being in those types of places and cat-calling actually worked positively few times, some actually took it as a compliment and we had good times and memories...

But that's me! Others are different...
Some go negative, some don't care of the reaction and some actually get smiles and other positive reactions..

Most of the girls i was friends with, when they complained about the cat-calling, the number one problem for them was
is that most of the cat-calling was from old men builders.. They didn't mind if they were young and alright looking.

So again, for every person it's different. It's what's in the heart..
We should strive to understand each other instead of hyper judging..

This thought policing mentality is gonna cost us our freedom some day once they go deeper, exploit it and turn it into something else.
I'm afraid the world is gonna turn into something like when you see someone with a beautiful smile, it might make your day, you want to give something back, you near a shop, you buy a flower, give it to a girl who made you smile, blush, walk away, she misunderstands you or she crazy and screams: R*pe!
And a innocent person is in trouble...

Anyway what im trying to say is: We are all different and so are our intentions..

And i'm sorry if you get harassed by cat-calls when you walk down the street, my advice is: Just ignore them and avoid eye contact.
Same goes when your a cute couple walking down the street.
Cute couples get cat called?? News to me...

I agree that I think the backlash against cat calling is overblown. Someone whistling at you or saying hi when you walk past or even damn as you described above is no harm no foul. But you have some men who when that juvenile approach is not acknowledged or reciprocated become hostile and overbearing and clearly not respecting boundaries or your right as a human being to not be interested you are talking about something else entirely. It is no longer a cat call, the cat call is just the catalyst.
 





rex

Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
15
You have a lot of thoughts about how women should “gracefully” reject you... but seemingly refuse to listen to women’s thoughts of how to respectfully approach them.
Complaining about being approached doesn't constitute a guideline for approaching.

Not that I would trust women's "stay cucked" advice, thank you very much.
@yiksmes the entire story you gave indicates only one thing to me. You lack confidence. Men who are successful with women only differ from men who are unsuccessful in that ONE thing. Lack of confidence can be overcome as a woman gets to know you and respects who you are, it can not be overcome by trying to mimic it with some tacky/rude/aggressive pickup tactic
Sorry, you can't solely credit what goes on between the ears. Confidence comes out in different ways for people of different mentality. It's what you see - the behavior - and only that, which makes a difference, because that's all you see. Some are better at confidence signaling than others because they tune their behavior to the recipient's confidence signal receptors. If the internal framework for how confidence manifests is out of synch, then appearing confident is difficult and requires manipulating how one acts. Hell, you might look more confident by trying to appear whiny. So go on, mock whatever obviously "beta" behavior you wish, while you keep ignoring the sly bullshit posturing (conscious or not) of the confidence signals that manage to turn you on.
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,766
Likes
7,175
You won’t trust women. Won’t listen to women. Blah blah blah..

And then wonder why women don’t want to sleep with you? :rolleyes:

And I’m sorry to break it to you... but true confidence is magnetic. You can try to mimic it like an autistic mimics social interactions but it will always be obvious that it’s fake. And fake is a turn off.
 





Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
780
Likes
1,659
Holy shit I didn't know those groups of people represent worldviews. You seem really good at pulling together a coherent worldview from mere collections of personal history, observation, and strategy. Can't view the facts in isolation. I actually wonder if this is a natural process you are drawn to repeat, or a developed technique.
You're correct. I don't have all the information to judge fully judge your worldview by this isolated conversation. But considering that keep defending what seems to be a worldview of someone who really doesn't how healthy adult relationships really work... What am I supposed to think? At least concerning your worldview on relationships, anyway.

Thank you for defining entitlement. Now since you think it's a good idea to bring it up for some reason, maybe you can point out stuff like who is entitled, how you see that, why entitlement develops, answer "so what", "ok now what".
"So what?" If someone feels entitled to another person's body, that's a bad thing. It means, no matter how much they believe they might, they don't view that person as a full individual. In a world full of dehumanization, on almost every level of society, we need to work towards caring for people more.

"What now?"

Change. Realize you cam and that you'll be a happier person for it.

[/QUOTE]I believe the best rebuttal to this is Green Eggs And Ham.
Holy shit, is Dr Seuss socializing men to be rapists?[/QUOTE]

The rebuttal was you using your chess allegory. Do you want a better one? Give me something better to work with.
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
909
Likes
1,405
Complaining about being approached doesn't constitute a guideline for approaching.
If you are really interested in some advice, here it is:

You NEED to start by reversing your lousy attitude

But when it comes to seduction the prevailing expectation is that at the slightest hint of disinterest from the other, you erase yourself and fade into the background like that Homer Simpson Backing Off Into The Bushes gif.
This is a terrible attitude to have when approaching women. Maybe she is just having a bad day and the best impression you can make is to just back off completely. Don't assume things about people. Don't be shallow. Have better intentions. Be respectful and intend to make her day better, not worse, no matter what happens after the initial approach. You seem very attached to what the outcome will be. The best attitude is to completely detach yourself from caring about what happens next. It seems from some of your comments that you think if you can push her buttons the right way you will get a predictable result, but that's the exact opposite of how it works.
 





yiksmes

Established
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
390
Likes
792
Cute couples get cat called?? News to me...
Not Cat-called, i meant when a cute couple walking down the street and get harassed..
It's either someone cat-calling your girlfriend disrespecting you(both), or when you get them stare down looks..
Basically either provoking you or straight down bullying picking a fight..
It depends on who you meet when you're out walking in the street or park..
Some might even ask for a light or cigarette and then start provoking you..
It usually happens when there are more than 2 i guess, maybe i can call it a gang mentality...

That's what i meant..

@yiksmes the entire story you gave indicates only one thing to me. You lack confidence. Men who are successful with women only differ from men who are unsuccessful in that ONE thing. Lack of confidence can be overcome as a woman gets to know you and respects who you are, it can not be overcome by trying to mimic it with some tacky/rude/aggressive pickup tactic

Lacking confidence was my main point, sorry i didn't verse it right, but it was an example of someone who is "inexperienced"
That's why i was talking about "school" and "Beavis and Butthead" and also mentioned i was only 13 years old.. (about)

I grew out of that stage but some don't and still act immature.
But being immature is not a crime..
When you can't control yourself, get triggered and start being aggressive or violent that's when the danger comes in and can even escalate to a crime..
But that's unavoidable sometimes, it's just bad people..

So in other words what i meant was: There are innocent cat-callers and bad or toxic ones..

agree that I think the backlash against cat calling is overblown. Someone whistling at you or saying hi when you walk past or even damn as you described above is no harm no foul. But you have some men who when that juvenile approach is not acknowledged or reciprocated become hostile and overbearing and clearly not respecting boundaries or your right as a human being to not be interested you are talking about something else entirely. It is no longer a cat call, the cat call is just the catalyst.
Yes, exactly that..

That's all i wanted to hear, i just want people to know that not all 98% of men are like that.. (The toxic ones).

Good fruits and bad fruits in both sexes...

These men vs women arguments will never ever come to good fruit.

We people or humans are equally good and bad. - And may i add that one sex can be pro good or pro bad in a certain field and another sex can be pro good or pro bad in another field.. - Life
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,766
Likes
7,175
The overwhelming majority of people in these conversations know that. No one thinks that it’s ALL or even most men (and vice versa). The problem is a couple bad apples spoil the whole bunch....

We’ve had horrible experiences with men. We’ve been hurt. It makes us guarded and defensive. That’s a normal reaction. You can’t blame us (talking about women and men in general no one specific).

That’s a problem men are going to have to handle internally. If other men are making men in general look bad then something needs to be done about those offending men. Disavow then, when you see them at the bar doing these things intervene/call them out - shame them - something!

What happens now is a culture of tacit approval. By saying nothing they think their behavior is condoned. When it’s only women complaining (who they don’t respect to begin with) we end up with groups of men convinced women are just miserable harpies that need to be tamed and gamed and they will never acknowledge there’s an actual problem.
 





Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
3,051
Likes
4,332
The overwhelming majority of people in these conversations know that. No one thinks that it’s ALL or even most men (and vice versa). The problem is a couple bad apples spoil the whole bunch....
What happens now is a culture of tacit approval. By saying nothing they think their behavior is condoned. When it’s only women complaining (who they don’t respect to begin with) we end up with groups of men convinced women are just miserable harpies that need to be tamed and gamed and they will never acknowledge there’s an actual problem.
ok, so by your logic, should all women have to speak up every time one of their own behaves badly? theres a lot of those bad apples, but do you need to be vocal about them on a daily basis so men do not lump all women together?

That’s a problem men are going to have to handle internally. If other men are making men in general look bad then something needs to be done about those offending men. Disavow then, when you see them at the bar doing these things intervene/call them out - shame them - something!
does every muslim need to speak up every time there is a r*pe of a european in sweden by another muslim? what about the average jew on the street-- does he need to be apologetic on a daily basis, letting everyone know that his fellow tribesmen in hollywood, the media, and the banking system are ruining society?
 





Last edited:
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,766
Likes
7,175
ok, so by your logic, should all women have to speak up every time one of their own behaves badly? and what about evil, manipulative ? theres a lot of those bad apples, but do you need to be vocal about them on a daily basis so men do not lump all women together?



does every muslim need to speak up every time there is a r*pe of a european in sweden by another muslim? what about the average jew on the street-- does he need to be apologetic on a daily basis, letting everyone know that his fellow tribesmen in hollywood, the media, and the banking system are ruining society?
If you knew me personally you’d know very well that I don’t keep my mouth shut... I’m assuming that can be easily inferred here even without knowing me personally.

And yes I do think we should ALL be holding each other accountable for bad behavior. I don’t think your everyday Muslim or Jew needs to personally disavow or call people out on their shit that they aren’t seeing or exposed to personally - your confusing my micro point here with a macro argument. If they did it wouldn’t hurt but that isn’t what I was saying.

Also I will say this. Women suck. I don’t really like women despite being one because they do sucker shit. However, there is a huge difference here that you are ignoring. Men aren’t generally walking around feeling fearful for their safety because of the suckiness of women. They aren’t scared they are going to be raped or groped or sexually abused. 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted, 1 in 6 are raped. This is terrifying. This is societal level trauma. From the time we are kids we are ingrained with fear - the messages start young and are unfortunately necessary.

If we (women) are sitting here telling you we are hurt and we are scared would it kill you (General you) as a good MAN to stand up and do something about it? To call out the bad behavior? To see a guy in a bar or on the streets accosting a woman who clearly isn’t comfortable and say something? To tell your friends their shit isn’t cool? These men don’t listen to us, they don’t respect us. Us telling them does nothing but enrage them... we need help. But when the “good guys” refuse to help, or ignore it, or shrug it off, or become defensive themselves the only message it’s sending us is it’s right to be fearful, it’s right to assume. Because how good of a guy are you if you can hear what we are saying, witness it yourself and DO NOTHING.


Also I’m going to have to get back to you in the other thread: going to take some time to put that together.
 





Glad 2 know

Established
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
483
Likes
492
I am a man and do see that the way women are often viewed as male property leads to r*pe and other destructive outcomes for women.
If women are objectified, their humanity is taken from them and they become playthings for men. As long as the idea exists that men are naturally better at things (through religion and science alike) , women will be valued less and treated as lesser.

I try to do my part to make women feel valued and respected, and I know enough men who do the same but they are not at all the majority even if conservatives in the US think so. I can't speak for what it is like in the US, but here in Europe the women's rights movement has only made life better for both sexes.
You're so right Devawolf. So many men and women have been desensitized. Men think women are property and can be treated as such, no voice and no rights. The women think they have to be quiet and do everything a man says even if it's wrong.
Thank you for being a true human being and doing your part :)
 





Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,311
Likes
8,540
This is ridiculous that this thread even continues to pop up.

If you look at an old-school (exaggerated) ideal of masculinity- Superman- is there anything about being a rapist in Superman's character? In John Wayne's character? In Malcolm X's character?

If you really believes this balony, either you are a male feminist type who is so determined to grovel to women that you are willing to lie for the sake of a ridiculous anti-God political agenda or you're simply not a guy.

A person who really thinks like this and genuinely believes this and isn't a deranged Antifa type is someone who doesn't have male anatomy and who knows nothing about what it's actually like to be a man.

Honestly, this kind of stuff is driven by envy. The same man-hating feminists who push this stuff are the same who want to be our sex and slavishly imitate every habit of my sex.
 





Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
780
Likes
1,659
This is ridiculous that this thread even continues to pop up.

If you look at an old-school (exaggerated) ideal of masculinity- Superman- is there anything about being a rapist in Superman's character? In John Wayne's character? In Malcolm X's character?
Superman? There's nothing wrong with Superman. He's an idealized version of positive masculine archetypes.

John Wayne? Malcolm X? Like most people, they were flawed. They have some positive traits. And some negative ones. John Wayne had some pretty disturbing views of black people.

But hey, let's keep pretending every supposed masculine trait is positive.
 





rex

Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
15
Bullshit, you don't get to decide what type of situation makes someone else uncomfortable.
Here we have it, ladies and gentlemen. For all the talk of entitlement, here's the one substantiated example of entitlement. Bells and whistles.

Not this other stuff referred by Corvus "swish-swash with my magic wand, entitlement be over there *points wand*" Metus. Your definitions are fine but not visibly applicable. "Entitlement bad" but what entitlement where? The dictionary doesn't tell you how the world works.

Now I said
But when it comes to seduction the prevailing expectation is that at the slightest hint of disinterest from the other, you erase yourself and fade into the background like that Homer Simpson Backing Off Into The Bushes gif.
Evidence? Anyone that goes "erm, not really" is instantly vilified.
Your response
This is a terrible attitude to have when approaching women.
There is no attitude here. This is an appraisal of the cultural climate. It is either accurate or inaccurate, and cannot be good or bad, nor victim/entitled. Notice I talk about evidence up there. Evidence in this thread, and in links people provide. This is a realm of facts, not opinion.

You've seen expectations discussed and manifested. But, I am specific and to the point about what these expectations are, where others avoid the uncomfortable reality of these expectations by downplaying, using sarcasm, obsessively justifying, etc.

You can't bear to let the expectation just stay in the limelight for a moment, no, it has to have Butthurt and Shaming jumping up and down next to it, like helicopter parents.
This is kind of a true comment, although I think it's something everyone should do. Attributing it to getting laid seems a little weird though...
How is it the least bit weird?
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
909
Likes
1,405
Here we have it, ladies and gentlemen. For all the talk of entitlement, here's the one substantiated example of entitlement. Bells and whistles.

Not this other stuff referred by Corvus "swish-swash with my magic wand, entitlement be over there *points wand*" Metus. Your definitions are fine but not visibly applicable. "Entitlement bad" but what entitlement where? The dictionary doesn't tell you how the world works.

Now I said

Your response

There is no attitude here. This is an appraisal of the cultural climate. It is either accurate or inaccurate, and cannot be good or bad, nor victim/entitled. Notice I talk about evidence up there. Evidence in this thread, and in links people provide. This is a realm of facts, not opinion.

You've seen expectations discussed and manifested. But, I am specific and to the point about what these expectations are, where others avoid the uncomfortable reality of these expectations by downplaying, using sarcasm, obsessively justifying, etc.

You can't bear to let the expectation just stay in the limelight for a moment, no, it has to have Butthurt and Shaming jumping up and down next to it, like helicopter parents.

How is it the least bit weird?
I’m not denying the FACT that women will usually want to be left alone and not be chatted up by a stranger. Respecting their wishes is somehow becoming more socially acceptable.. weird how that works, eh?

If you’re not equally ready to “fade away into the bushes like Homer” wtf are you even doing? Can’t even take a hint? You CAN take the hint but selfishly pursue them anyway? This is the attitude I’m referring to. You should lose it if you don’t like striking out w women.
 





rex

Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
15
In a way it is weird. You know, disrespecting certain wishes has always been and continues to be unacceptable as it should.
The reactionary attitude that you DO seem to be promoting crowds out any middle ground between pursuit and disengagement. It also renders anything but complete and wholesale rejection as unbearable responsibility for the woman, as opposed to (common?) courtesy.
What I find easy to challenge is the presumption that everyone's out for their own good and willing to sacrifice any amount of another's for it. This amounts to instant rejection of any persuasion. With men being the pursuers, this conveniently puts them in the eternally selfish camp.