Men are socialized to be rapists

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#81
By whom exactly are paranoid women made to think that?

Because men are ofcourse never part of a reason why a women could be scared.
You clearly have no idea about the lived experience of many women who get daily catcalls and other sexual intimidation. There are plenty of studies on that though, if you care to read them.
So true!

 





rex

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#82
How do you reconcile this view with millions of incels. Where are their gateways to guilt-free, socially supported, inconsequential r*pe. Men are socialized to kill themselves, more like.

You can see what the real social teachings are, in this very thread. That even expressing sexual interest is an immoral, trauma-inflicting act of intimidation. The priorities are clearly laid out: The cost of stifling a primary life drive for men pales in comparison to the sin of "making" women feel uncomfortable.

The male shaming you see above is the dominant modality, not some uprising against the status quo. That the OP was not laughed out of the thread is evidence. Try looking under your nose. Can't rely on the exasperated venting of poor sods to make your case. Or point to rich dicks who live in their own elite bubble.
 





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#86

it might be unwelcome, but its free speech. impolite speech, but free speech nonetheless.

now, from a morally appropriate point of view:
suggestive comments are one thing, and she makes a point, but if a guy smiles and says, "have a nice evening!" or "how you doing?" thats offensive to a good looking girl? lighten up. whats next, staring and double takes are off limits?

regardless of the videos dismissal of it (not surprisingly, its too touchy for them to discuss), latinos and blacks do this more often than whites. its a cultural thing.
 





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#87
I don’t really care about catcalling. I don’t think it’s a big deal. But you do have guys that will catcall, you ignore them and then they get hostile. That’s a problem.

I don’t think banning catcalling will solve that problem and aside from being correlated I don’t think it causes it.
 





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#88
I don’t really care about catcalling. I don’t think it’s a big deal. But you do have guys that will catcall, you ignore them and then they get hostile. That’s a problem.

I don’t think banning catcalling will solve that problem and aside from being correlated I don’t think it causes it.
i dont think its a big deal either, but i see the womens POV that it can be annoying. a guy getting genuinely hostile or confrontational is taking it way too far. i agree. men who do this are slimy. but how many of those catcallers are of this type? i honestly dont think its a great number of them.
i wouldnt have an issue with the police making this a sting operation for sexual predators.
 





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#89
I think the theory/idea behind it is kinda like “broken windows” policing, which also went way too far.
 





lovesoul

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#90
I came accross this amazing thread on twitter about r*pe culture. She hit the nail on the head.
It's the metoo era and I think it's amazing that women are able to speak up about their asaults BUT there is still a lot of focus on victims of assaults and not enough on the perpetrators of assault who are generally men (98% of them). There are ton of videos on the internet about women speaking about their experiences but videos about men speaking rationally about r*pe culture has been nearly impossible to find.
Generally 98% of men? Might I ask where you found that stat? In the meantime... this was a surprising find. A feminist founded a study that showed that women are up there in being the perpetrators, of men, for r*pe at 79.2%. If r*pe is going to be discussed, then we need to recognize both men and women. Linking article with link of study and sources below...

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/
 





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#91
r*pe is about power, same with sexual assault and catcalling. It's all about men exerting their power over women by invading their space and their bodies. I don't agree with the idea that catcalling isn't important because as soon as we start framing certain acts of sexism as "acceptable" it becomes a slippery slope.
 





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#92
Generally 98% of men? Might I ask where you found that stat? In the meantime... this was a surprising find. A feminist founded a study that showed that women are up there in being the perpetrators, of men, for r*pe at 79.2%. If r*pe is going to be discussed, then we need to recognize both men and women. Linking article with link of study and sources below...

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/
Yeah pretty sure you read that article wrong. Of men who reported being sexually assaulted 79.2% was done by women ( non penetrative assault btw), still as the article clearly states the vast majority of sexual assault victims are women.
 





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#93
now, from a morally appropriate point of view:
suggestive comments are one thing, and she makes a point, but if a guy smiles and says, "have a nice evening!" or "how you doing?" thats offensive to a good looking girl? lighten up. whats next, staring and double takes are off limits?

regardless of the videos dismissal of it (not surprisingly, its too touchy for them to discuss), latinos and blacks do this more often than whites. its a cultural thing.
I agree with this, that saying "Good Morning", "Good Evening", "How you doing?" and smiling is all right. It's more the whistling and the inappropriate staring and the following (the guy who walked with her), inappropriate comments, etc. For example, one time a boy told me "I like your t and a." That was not appropriate. I pretended to ignore it and was shocked that it was even said since I was obese at the time, not that it wouldn't still be inappropriate if I were smaller.

The video surprised me a bit since I thought most people in New York City tried not to look at one another and generally leave each other alone. That's a stereotype I have, that people in NYC are unfriendly, cold and dismissive.
 





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#94
How is catcalling an “act of sexism”? Yeah it can be but generally it isn’t, imo.

Umm... ny’ers are extremely friendly. You might be thinking of the dickhead wasps in midtown Manhattan, rich spoiled snobs. But that video was Harlem I believe.
 





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#95
By whom exactly are paranoid women made to think that?

Because men are ofcourse never part of a reason why a women could be scared.
You clearly have no idea about the lived experience of many women who get daily catcalls and other sexual intimidation. There are plenty of studies on that though, if you care to read them.
cat calls are not r*pe, "sexual intimidation" sounds like a term that can be misused by paranoid gynocrats to justify unwarranted Social Justice behavior.
 





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#97
How do you reconcile this view with millions of incels. Where are their gateways to guilt-free, socially supported, inconsequential r*pe. Men are socialized to kill themselves, more like.
The rise of so-called incels comes from young men measuring their self-worth on sexual conquest, feeling they don't measure up to social standards of masculinity. For some, it can be connected to deliberating anxiety and depression but the vast majority of incels are just self-entitled.

Incel culture is a great example of why men are conditioned to believe they deserve sex since it's filled with folks that talk about how great it would be if the government issues sex slaves and downplay the pain sexual assault and r*pe causes. I'm not saying all incels are bad... But good folks should get the hell out of that community.

You can see what the real social teachings are, in this very thread. That even expressing sexual interest is an immoral, trauma-inflicting act of intimidation. The priorities are clearly laid out: The cost of stifling a primary life drive for men pales in comparison to the sin of "making" women feel uncomfortable.
Catcalling can make you sleazy but it isn't inherently wrong. But if a woman tells you to stop, or acts uncomfortable and you keep at it... Yeah. And there's a lot of ways to meet women without coming off as creepy, too. It's not that hard to find out of someone is into; whether you're a guy or a girl. And whether you're a guy or girl, if you don't take people NOT being into graciously... Well, people aren't going to find you attractive.


The male shaming you see above is the dominant modality, not some uprising against the status quo. That the OP was not laughed out of the thread is evidence. Try looking under your nose. Can't rely on the exasperated venting of poor sods to make your case. Or point to rich dicks who live in their own elite bubble.
Men aren't getting shamed for being men. Some men are being shamed for being jerks. If you think it's totally cool for men to make unwanted advances towards women is totally what makes a man a man... Reconsider your idea of masculinity.
 





lovesoul

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#98
Yeah pretty sure you read that article wrong. Of men who reported being sexually assaulted 79.2% was done by women ( non penetrative assault btw), still as the article clearly states the vast majority of sexual assault victims are women.
No, I didn't read it wrong. It clearly states, “the form of nonconsensual sex that men are much more likely to experience in their lifetime ... 79.2% of victimized men reported female perpetrators.”
 





rex

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#99
The rise of so-called incels comes from young men measuring their self-worth on sexual conquest, feeling they don't measure up to social standards of masculinity.
This is like sniping at lonely people for desiring companionship or family. Make up your mind, is it good or bad to downplay pain? Or does it depend on gender?

I was actually referring to the factual status that goes beyond the self-identified groups you have in mind, same way you can be promiscuous without identifying with slut culture. Bottom line: not rapists, by definition. I'm not even debating "the vast majority" of them, but all of them: If you're entitled to something you take it. Action (or lack thereof) speaks louder than words.

But since you mention the "community", that they want government handouts shows their deference to acceptable forms of influence/coersion, government being one, but not r*pe, r*pe being unacceptable even among anonymous and unaccountable groups that should be the most suggestible to it. How could they miss this omnipresent r*pe near everyone else is getting in on.

I can't even tell if you're self-aware in how you're mentally infusing toxicity and selfishness into the predominantly male act of pursuit, barely more intrusive/tenacious/unwanted than other attention-sucking things we easily tolerate from strangers and companions, and thus propagating the typical sentiment, as antithetical to r*pe culture as you can get. Who's socializing men to be rapists? Sure ain't you.
 





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This is like sniping at lonely people for desiring companionship or family. Make up your mind, is it good or bad to downplay pain? Or does it depend on gender?
Again, I feel genuinely bad for the incels that have severe social anxiety that limits their growth. Hell, I sympathize with them. Once upon a time, I was in their shoes. It took me a lot to overcome my own issues and I'm well aware not everyone can do that. I wouldn't have without a strong support network.

But most incels are narcissists who create their own hell. They are Elliot Rodger-types.

I was actually referring to the factual status that goes beyond the self-identified groups you have in mind, same way you can be promiscuous without identifying with slut culture. Bottom line: not rapists, by definition. I'm not even debating "the vast majority" of them, but all of them: If you're entitled to something you take it. Action (or lack thereof) speaks louder than words.
Incel is like any other subculture. You're only one if you identify as one. And you can be self-entitled without "taking" things. I also don't think you know what the term self-entitled means.

But since you mention the "community", that they want government handouts shows their deference to acceptable forms of influence/coersion, government being one, but not r*pe, r*pe being unacceptable even among anonymous and unaccountable groups that should be the most suggestible to it. How could they miss this omnipresent r*pe near everyone else is getting in on.
Their desire for rationed women shows their complete acceptance of r*pe. Since you know, sexual slavery is r*pe. And if they want to justify r*pe just because everyone else is getting laid by they aren't but won't get a hooker or an "ugly" girl at a bar... Well, why the fuck should I feel bad?

I can't even tell if you're self-aware in how you're mentally infusing toxicity and selfishness into the predominantly male act of pursuit[/quote]

I'm not demonizing men pursuing women. Men are free to do that. No one here says it's a bad thing. No one is saying that you can't. Hell, no one's saying you can't even catcall women you feel are attractive. All some people say is certain approaches aren't good and that society, as a whole, conditions men to feel entitled to women's bodies.

That's not saying you can't date or chase skirts.






barely more intrusive/tenacious/unwanted than other attention-sucking things we easily tolerate from strangers and companions, and thus propagating the typical sentiment, as antithetical to r*pe culture as you can get
Google r*pe culture. Try to understand what it means. It doesn't mean what you thing it does.


Who's socializing men to be rapists? Sure ain't you.
I'd hope not. But I ain't exactly a social influencer.