Men are socialized to be rapists

DevaWolf

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#21
It’s literally all around you..
I am a man and do see that the way women are often viewed as male property leads to r*pe and other destructive outcomes for women.
If women are objectified, their humanity is taken from them and they become playthings for men. As long as the idea exists that men are naturally better at things (through religion and science alike) , women will be valued less and treated as lesser.

I try to do my part to make women feel valued and respected, and I know enough men who do the same but they are not at all the majority even if conservatives in the US think so. I can't speak for what it is like in the US, but here in Europe the women's rights movement has only made life better for both sexes.
 





Wigi

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#22
To say 'men are socialized to become rapists' is like saying 'women are socialized to become harlots because of their looks'.

It's not a good thing to put a burden on men like that.

I think women are objectified by the medias and it's pushed by the entertainment industry.
During decades, medias valued women by their ability to create covetousness in men and they still do that to sell products.

Since people's behaviors are greatly affected by the pop culture, young generation think it's part of the culture to think that way.

In my opinion, current feminist trend that ask women to be more assertive in a sexual way won't help at all.
 





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#23
Toxic masculinity IS NOT an attack on manhood, as a whole.
Disagree.

Toxic masculinity IS NOT an attack on male identity.
Disagree..

Toxic masculinity IS NOT an attack on virtues that have been traditionally been coded as masculine such as courage, honor, assertiveness, and integrity.
Disagree...

Toxic masculinity IS an attack on traits that are considered masculine that HURT both the men that engage in them and others. Aggressiveness in situations that don't require such behavior, suppressing emotions based on ludicrous concepts such as "boys don't cry", or the constant desire to dominate.

Toxic masculinity IS a perversion of REAL masculinity, created by a system that wants men to be angry so they join the army and kill for their government without even asking what they are fighting for.

If you don't think r*pe culture exists...Well, as others have said... We have r*pe jokes. We have people telling r*pe victims they shouldn't have had drinks with that man or shouldn't have worn a skirt that short instead of telling the rapist he shouldn't have raped.
Well theres a ground level way to look at things and a skyview level way to look at things. The skyview level to look at this "toxic masculinity" concept is to understand that it benefits those in power to have weaker, less masculine, feminized men. Thats what its about . Engineering men to be weaker so the potential resistance is weaker.

Are there toxic men? Of course. Are there men that do toxic things? Absolutely. But the SAME applies to women. But nowadays, only men are being attacked. Why? Because they're social engineering society. At the very least as a person that understands what this website is about, you have to look behind the curtain. You cant always, go by whats happening on stage..

I don't believe you're a bad guy, dude... But instead of hating on concepts, I'd recommend actually looking into them and trying to understand them and what people actually mean by them. And it's not an issue with just you; a lot of people on this forum take ideas that have been appropriated by liberal media and twisted into something else in a deliberate attempt to push people away from the concepts.
Yea and its like wise. But I disagree. These concepts effect me if the people around believe in them and act or think on them.

If you want to take down any society you take out the man. The elite are using feminism to do that. Split upthe man and woman, use the woman thru feminism to debase the man, then drop the woman and feminism when they’re done with that. It’s a war theyre waging on all fronts but to be on a website like this and not look behind the curtains seems irresponsible...
 





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#25
You can disagree if you want, but on an objective level, you're wrong. Sure, you might be able to find a fringe radfem that agrees with you... But when the vast majority of people talk about "toxic masculinity", they mean everything I just said.

But you know what? I'm going to play a bit of a game with you. I'm going to embrace toxic masculine, to rebuke your points... To show you exactly what people mean when they discuss toxic masculinity.


Well theres a ground level way to look at things and a skyview level way to look at things. The skyview level to look at this "toxic masculinity" concept is to understand that it benefits those in power to have weaker, less masculine, feminized men. Thats what its about . Engineering men to be weaker so the potential resistance is weaker.
"Feminized men"? Shut the fuck up. Anyone who I've ever heard go on about "feminized men" have been biggest fucking bitches I've ever met in my life.. Being a 4chan poster or an armchair pundit who talks strongly about being a "real man" doesn't make you a real fucking man. I'd bet most of them never been in a fucking fight and would be the first to rat to the cops if someone punched them for talking shit. Chest-pounding, "real men" and fucking pussies that don't know a goddamn thing about actually being a real man.


Do you get it? See unneeded aggression? The desire to dominate? That's toxic masculinity.


Are there toxic men? Of course. Are there men that do toxic things? Absolutely. But the SAME applies to women. But nowadays, only men are being attacked. Why? Because they're social engineering society. At the very least as a person that understands what this website is about, you have to look behind the curtain. You cant always, go by whats happening on stage..
Feminists call the toxic things that women do "internalized misogyny". And I've look behind the curtain. Do you know what I saw? Tyrants of all sorts; the current status quo and all the lesser powers struggling to overtake them so they can sit at the throne. And the only way I can think to overcome that is to melt the throne and the crown in slag and reforge it all into tools for the workers.


Yea and its like wise. But I disagree. These concepts effect me if the people around believe in them and act or think on them.

If you want to take down any society you take out the man. The elite are using feminism to do that. Split upthe man and woman, use the woman thru feminism to debase the man, then drop the woman and feminism when they’re done with that. It’s a war theyre waging on all fronts but to be on a website like this and not look behind the curtains seems irresponsible...
If you want to take down society, you divide the people. Men ain't special. Neither are women. And you, because of your unwillingness to actually learn what feminism is, feeling like feminism is some assault on your masculinity are helping them. The very powers you claim to be against.
 





Wigi

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#26
Do you get it? See unneeded aggression? The desire to dominate? That's toxic masculinity.
But the way you've answered has nothing to do with a toxic form of masculinity.
Being a jerk or a keyboard warrior on the internet has nothing to do with a toxic masculinity and guess what? Women can also 'talk shit' on the internet and in real life to be assertive about their feminism.

I would like to know what you've understood of feminism and in what way it is necessary in order to fix 'men socialized to be rapists' knowing that these behaviors were promoted and normalized in movies, pop music ect.
 





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#28
I am a man and do see that the way women are often viewed as male property leads to r*pe and other destructive outcomes for women.
If women are objectified, their humanity is taken from them and they become playthings for men. As long as the idea exists that men are naturally better at things (through religion and science alike) , women will be valued less and treated as lesser.

I try to do my part to make women feel valued and respected, and I know enough men who do the same but they are not at all the majority even if conservatives in the US think so. I can't speak for what it is like in the US, but here in Europe the women's rights movement has only made life better for both sexes.
this was a reasonable response.

HOWEVER... there are differences between the sexes. and of course both sexes deserve respect. men are naturally better at certain things and women are naturally better at other things. thats a fact. men and women are equal, but they have different strengths. with those different strengths, they are better suited for different roles. the right understands that-- the left refuses to acknowledge it due to third wave feminism social programming.
 





Wigi

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#31
I think the term “toxic masculinity” just elicits a knee jerk defensive reaction from men. Much like “vasectomy” apparantly...
The problem is semantic.
When you're arguing that some toxic behaviors are inherent to a group because of their gender, skin color ect despite the fact that toxicity has everything to do with culture, it's not really surprising to have a reaction.

But I wonder if people are willing to colonize lands to explain 'toxic masculinity' in middle eastern, African and Asian countries to teach them the benefits and the moral superiority of feminism that 'toxic males' failed to see.

It would be interesting to watch them starting with Pakistanis or North Africans immigrants because when migrants commit crimes and r*pe women in the midst of streets, it's not good to judge them because.. you know what I mean.
Even feminists think it's wrong to judge their culture:
http://www.outono.net/elentir/2018/...o-abused-her-daughter-to-avoid-his-expulsion/
 





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#32
A lot of ppl seem to think that you have to beat someone up and rip off their clothes for it to be considered r*pe. Or rapists are marginals who hide behind the bushes and only come out at night.
I'm sure a lot of people who have been manipulated or coerced into sex wouldn't call it r*pe because it wasn't as black and white as our culture like to portray it.
I've had older women say that marital r*pe wasn't a thing beacuse husbands own their wife's body.
 





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#33
I am a man and do see that the way women are often viewed as male property leads to r*pe and other destructive outcomes for women.
If women are objectified, their humanity is taken from them and they become playthings for men. As long as the idea exists that men are naturally better at things (through religion and science alike) , women will be valued less and treated as lesser.

That's true and if you are a woman you're just someone's daughter and then you become someone's wife. You don't have your own identity. Only place where there is a r*pe culture for men is the prison because they're considered second class citizens. But for women it's everywhere. r*pe culture is used as a tool to control women and make sure they're taking less space. As long as girls are told to wtach what they wear or how they act in the public space to avoid male violence it assures they stay docile and fearful. Fear is known to be the most powerful tool to control a group of people.
 





Wigi

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#34
But for women it's everywhere. r*pe culture is used as a tool to control women and make sure they're taking less space.
If there was a r*pe culture, it would be as legal as abortion. People conflate sex culture with r*pe culture. r*pe is one consequence of this sex culture rooted in hedonism.
 





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#35
yes he was but one man but plenty of men have defended his comments as a joke which shows there is a rae culture, its ok to joke about a terrible act.
r*pe jokes are everywhere, even the president of the united states has been caught joking abut sexual assault, grabbing womens genitalia with out permission.
if this man ad made the comments about not raping then maybe raping the female mp then everyone turned around and said he was sick, he is in need of help and it was not ok, you would have been right. but they didnt they defended him, there sir you have r*pe culture
No. An unknown and probably unfunny comic making a possibly unfunny joke doesn’t mean all or most men are socialized to be raipists...
 





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#36
You can disagree if you want, but on an objective level, you're wrong. Sure, you might be able to find a fringe radfem that agrees with you... But when the vast majority of people talk about "toxic masculinity", they mean everything I just said.

But you know what? I'm going to play a bit of a game with you. I'm going to embrace toxic masculine, to rebuke your points... To show you exactly what people mean when they discuss toxic masculinity.




"Feminized men"? Shut the fuck up. Anyone who I've ever heard go on about "feminized men" have been biggest fucking bitches I've ever met in my life.. Being a 4chan poster or an armchair pundit who talks strongly about being a "real man" doesn't make you a real fucking man. I'd bet most of them never been in a fucking fight and would be the first to rat to the cops if someone punched them for talking shit. Chest-pounding, "real men" and fucking pussies that don't know a goddamn thing about actually being a real man.


Do you get it? See unneeded aggression? The desire to dominate? That's toxic masculinity.
What you did there has nothing to do with masculinity. It’s you over exaggerating masculine stereotypes to make a point.


Feminists call the toxic things that women do "internalized misogyny". And I've look behind the curtain. Do you know what I saw? Tyrants of all sorts; the current status quo and all the lesser powers struggling to overtake them so they can sit at the throne. And the only way I can think to overcome that is to melt the throne and the crown in slag and reforge it all into tools for the workers.
Which comes off like: Men are doing something to women that women are internalizing. If there’s a toxic masculinity there should be an equal term of the feminine aspect. Not a term to which you can blame someone else for your toxicity
(You in general not specific)

If you want to take down society, you divide the people. Men ain't special. Neither are women. And you, because of your unwillingness to actually learn what feminism is, feeling like feminism is some assault on your masculinity are helping them. The very powers you claim to be against.
Nobody fears women or children when it comes to revolutions or social resistance. That’s why in war they kill off the men and keep the women and children for a servant class.
 





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#38
What you did there has nothing to do with masculinity. It’s you over exaggerating masculine stereotypes to make a point.




Which comes off like: Men are doing something to women that women are internalizing. If there’s a toxic masculinity there should be an equal term of the feminine aspect. Not a term to which you can blame someone else for your toxicity
(You in general not specific)



Nobody fears women or children when it comes to revolutions or social resistance. That’s why in war they kill off the men and keep the women and children for a servant class.
Or r*pe them.... quite frequently actually.
 





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#39
If there was a r*pe culture, it would be as legal as abortion. People conflate sex culture with r*pe culture. r*pe is one consequence of this sex culture rooted in hedonism.
How many rapists get prosecuted? How many that are prosecuted get actual jail time? The rates are abysmal and the punishments when they even get them are a joke. RESEARCH is your friend.
 





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#40
i was living abroad during the brock turner news, so i wasnt aware of it.
and no, i dont pay attention to it anyway.
If you aren’t paying attention do you really think your qualified to say it doesn’t exist?

I don’t pay attention to “false flags” so I don’t offer my opinion generally. I can’t give a qualified opinion (911 excepted).

When a man purposely plies a woman with alcohol until the point of incoherence with the express purpose of getting her drunk enough to have sex with her, yes it’s r*pe. Please look up the legal definitions.

Or how about rapists getting off because the girl was drunk? Do you know how frequently that happens? Let’s see... I was raped when I was black out drunk and passed out by a man who was supposed to be my friend. No one believed me or thought it was r*pe cuz I was drunk. Yet I was literally unconscious. So it was my fault. I shouldn’t have drank. It wasn’t r*pe I just was stupid and had bad consequences for my stupidity. Never mind I was a virgin, never mind everyone knew I would have never willingly done anything with this guy. So yes.. that’s r*pe culture.
 





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