Medical Website Indulges Trans Community With New Term For Female Genitalia

polymoog

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Well, if some pre-op transwoman wants to refer to his penis as a girl dick, or a pre-op transman wants to refer to his vagina as a front hole... Again, why should I give a fuck? Since this sort of thing would only come up if you know, you're having sex with a trans person, or for some reason talking about your junk. In which case, it should be a non-issue.

there is nothing to prevent this new term from becoming a mainstream politically correct term that is foisted upon the general population.

we have already covered the fact that a person can face fines for discrimination for calling a person the wrong pronoun, so yes, it is an issue when new terms arise. today... with terms like this being changed, everyone being offended by everything and the right lawyer prosecuting, one could be facing a hate speech crime in the near future.
 

mecca

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we have already covered the fact that a person can face fines for discrimination for calling a person the wrong pronoun
That isn't true. Transgender people were just added to the list of groups that can't be discriminated against for being who they are. Businesses can't turn you away for being trans. Only in cases of legally defined harassment with malicious intent and discrimination against transgender people can there be consequences.
 

mecca

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O how I wish you were right, but I assure you-- based on the history of political correctness, the expectation is there.
We'll see who's right then... the only time you would even be talking to a trans person about their genitals is if you are in a sexual relationship with them. I also want to point out that not all trans people even feel the need to use different language.
 
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It's true. Leftists are always fascists. Good catch! :)
If this is true, why does every source consider fascism to be a far-right ideology? But let's pretend for a moment, that you're correct, let's go back to that Rothbrand quote.

“One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that, for the first time in my memory, we, ‘our side,’ had captured a crucial word from the enemy . . . ‘Libertarians’ . . . had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over...”
I doubt you'd argue that capitalist libertarianism is right-wing. And there you have someone bragging how he's hijacked a term formally used by anarchists to be used by capitalists. Words have power and everyone tries to change the meaning of words. So... You don't really have a high horse to sit on, chief.
 
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there is nothing to prevent this new term from becoming a mainstream politically correct term that is foisted upon the general population.
These terms will only come into play if you're having sex with a transgendered person and more specifically, a transgendered person that wants to uses these terms. Otherwise, it's not going to be an issue... And if you're in a sexual relationship with a transgendered person, I'm going to sure as hell hope you respect whatever they want to call their genitalia. I mean, if you're dating a girl that doesn't want to call her vagina a cunt, you're not going to keep referring to it as that are you?

Same thing.

we have already covered the fact that a person can face fines for discrimination for calling a person the wrong pronoun, so yes, it is an issue when new terms arise. today... with terms like this being changed, everyone being offended by everything and the right lawyer prosecuting, one could be facing a hate speech crime in the near future.
Those laws only affect deliberate misgendering. If you do it accidentally, you're not going to get in trouble And if you deliberately misgender, repeatedly, you're deliberately harassing someone. I would be no different than if you kept calling an Arab "Mohammad" even if he gave you his real name or even an Irish guy "Pat". You're being an asshole and if you're going out of your way to be an asshole, why should anyone feel bad you're getting sued?
 

polymoog

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Corvus Metus: These terms will only come into play if you're having sex with a transgendered person and more specifically, a transgendered person that wants to uses these terms. Otherwise, it's not going to be an issue...

you do not know that as a fact. it will be a term we will be asked to use "to be sensitive".



Those laws only affect deliberate misgendering. If you do it accidentally, you're not going to get in trouble And if you deliberately misgender, repeatedly, you're deliberately harassing someone. I would be no different than if you kept calling an Arab "Mohammad" even if he gave you his real name or even an Irish guy "Pat". You're being an asshole and if you're going out of your way to be an asshole, why should anyone feel bad you're getting sued?


being a "back hole" is covered by the first amendment. once upon a time, we used the phrase "sticks and stones" to remind us, but common sense has disappeared years ago. slander, libel, and harrassment have laws already in the law books. as we have discussed, additional special laws were added for trans people. special rights for special groups is flat out wrong.
 
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[QUOTE="polymoog, post: 153024, member: 552"

you do not know that as a fact. it will be a term we will be asked to use "to be sensitive".[/QUOTE]

...it's common sense? Since you know, unless you've having sex with someone, you shouldn't be talking about some's junk?



being a "back hole" is covered by the first amendment. once upon a time, we used the phrase "sticks and stones" to remind us, but common sense has disappeared years ago. slander, libel, and harrassment have laws already in the law books. as we have discussed, additional special laws were added for trans people. special rights for special groups is flat out wrong.
Maybe they wouldn't need special rights if people, you know, actually respected them as human beings and didn't treat them like shit. Besides, the first amdentment only covers federal laws, not state laws, which unless the Supreme Court declares New York's law unconsitutional... It isn't unconstitutional. You might not like it, you might think it's a stupid law, but since it's not CONGRESS making this law, it doesn't apply. For the record, I think it's a dumb law, too.... But at the same time, I'm not going to cry foul for anyone who falls victim to it, no more than I cry foul if someone talks shit in a bar and gets punched in the nose.
 

elsbet

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We'll see who's right then... the only time you would even be talking to a trans person about their genitals is if you are in a sexual relationship with them. I also want to point out that not all trans people even feel the need to use different language.
They may not feel the need, but it's being encouraged nonetheless-- and I am right.

They are quick to mention, in spite of the disclaimer you're parroting, that “Front hole,” as another term for vagina, is also used by the National Institutes of Health, Human Rights Campaign, BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth journal, and Fenway Health in collaboration with Harvard Medical School, the National LGBT Health Education Center, and the Massachusetts League of Community Health Centers. So to say its use is meant to be limited is nonsense. Wait till you get to sit through corporate 'sensitivity training' and you'll see that nothing is really off the table.

I echo @Thunderian 's sentiment, at this point.

Save us, Lord.
 

Thunderian

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If this is true, why does every source consider fascism to be a far-right ideology?
Of course, you realize that fascist isn't just a political term.

Definitions of fascist


Leftists are always fascists. They try and control every little thing.

People like me enjoy as much freedom as we can get. That's why we hate leftism. It's a fascist system run by back holes.
 

polymoog

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For the record, I think it's a dumb law, too.... But at the same time, I'm not going to cry foul for anyone who falls victim to it, no more than I cry foul if someone talks shit in a bar and gets punched in the nose.
no one deserves to be physically attacked for ANYthing someone else said. "sticks and stones", remember? anyone is free to walk away from the offending comments.
 

The Zone

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I love how some are using the term far right when there are only a few fringe groups there. The right is just mildly conservative compared to some countries. The left has been taken over by making it up as you go types. They want to flip everything on its head and that sounds a lot like other subject matter discussed here. Most hard demonstrators on the left are brainwashed beyond even fitting in with any known society. They struggle to get along or go with the flow. Some are speaking of words here, when the left wants to squelch free speech all together into groupthink and take away words or destroy old ones, again, making up new ones as they go. This all leads back to the maddening PC culture where the world would be turned into a circus if they had their way. Satan loves a good freak show and the chaos.
 
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mecca

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So to say its use is meant to be limited is nonsense.
It literally is meant to be limited. It only applies to a small number of transgender people and transgender people are already an extreme minority. It will never come up except in an extremely limited circumstance that most people won't encounter.
and I am right.
I doubt that... Are you going to be in a sexual relationship with someone who happens to be transgender anytime soon?
Save us, Lord.
Why is difference a bad thing that people need to be saved from? People call their own genitals what they want within their own relationships, how is that a big deal? It doesn't affect me.
 
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elsbet

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It literally is meant to be limited.
:rolleyes: It already is not, if what I've reposted is true. You've LITERALLY (I think we should both enjoy that word to its fullest) said nothing new, here, and I don't think you *really* read a word I wrote.

... how is that a big deal? It doesn't affect me.
And yet, here we are. You've missed my point, and the point of the thread. Literally.

In theory, it does sound like what you're arguing-- however... experience has shown that it often plays out quite differently.

All points made in last post.. I wont repeat them, except for this-- the way the article was originally written led people to believe (and rightfully so) that this is the new terminology for all, so trans people dont feel bad (or whatever the justification may be)... so much so that the article has since been rewritten. So.. no need for the vapors. Let's hope it falls flat and ends there-- I can't imagine anyone over 25 using these terms anyway. They sound like like they were invented by perverted 12 year olds.


 

mecca

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Let's hope it falls flat and ends there
It already has but you're the one saying that everyone will be forced to use these terms in place of the medical terms. I'm saying that's not going to happen because no one is going to be casually discussing transgender people's genitals in their day to day lives.
 
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elsbet

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It already has but you're the one saying that everyone will be forced to use these terms in place of the medical terms. I'm saying that's not going to happen because no one is going to be casually discussing transgender people's genitals in their day to day lives.
No I didn't... I said PC.

But you... you've said the same thing three times now. I should have quoted your entire post for your own benefit. Let me take you through Dr. Suess style.

Not limited where?

mecca said:
It only applies to a small number of transgender people and transgender people are already an extreme minority.
Not limited ... ^ there ^

It's already permeated to the universities and the health organizations, ie the medical community. How long have you been on this thread?

Now... say it again, babe. :D
 

Violette

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You're right that body positivity is necessary and that society should be more accepting of people's different body types instead of pushing them to try to look a certain way, and many trans people do struggle with their body image... but transgender people are still mentally the gender that they see themselves as... they can't really change that regardless of what their body looks like. It's really not the same as an eating disorder... they can improve their eating disorders but they will still be trans.
if they can’t change that regardless of what their bodies look like then what’s the point of altering their bodies then? I’m fairly confident a lot of them are confused about their gender because they didn’t fit the mold of what society deemed appropriate for their sex. They weren’t very manly or feminine so they felt they must be in the wrong body. Male and female aren’t on one spectrum with manly men on one side and girly girls at the other spectrum. When you view it that way it’s bound to be confusing in the middle. It’s two totally different spectrums that reflect your sex. Also the premise between being trans and having an ED is pretty similar if not the same. Making drastic and potentially harmful changes to your body to satisfy a delusion.
I do think that greater acceptance would probably reduce some of their need to change themselves and make them feel a bit more comfortable with simply being different but their differences are still there... that's what makes them transgender and they still feel the need to present as their gender identity. That itself is what makes them feel good about their body/appearance and they really shouldn't be restricted from doing that. If their dysphoria is alleviated they can feel more like themselves and be happy about who they are.
They should feel good about their appearance but at what price? Being dependent upon hormones your whole life doesn’t seem safe to me. Birth control has been on the market as safe for a long time but it makes women have horrible mood swings and has very harmful long term effects. I can’t imagine that taking hormones that arent naturally compatible with your biology is all that safe. They are actively making an effort to make it legal for children under 16 to start hormone therapy to make their transition seamless even though the majority of gender confused children change their mind. We know kids can’t consent to sex but they’re some how able to consent to changing their gender?

Transgender people were and are still a small minority but in the past they didn't have any awareness about their issues and they didn't have nearly as many options for help. Transgender people should be able to use the tools we now have to help their condition depending on their personal needs. Also people have to actually be diagnosed with gender dysphoria to be transgender and receive any kind of medical treatment... it's not as widespread as the politicized hype might make it seem, they are still a definite minority. Greater awareness of what transgender people are and what they go through doesn't cause non-trans people to become transgender.
People do not have to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria to be trans or to get medical treatment, there’s ways to bypass that actually. I can think of 8 trans people off the type of my head that I know personally three of which that started transition within the past couple of years. That’s a large amount for a group that’s supposedly not growing and only 1% of the population. There’s always been that small population of people who legitimately are trans but there’s a growing amount of people who do it not because they hate their bodies but because they “feel more positively” about being the opposite sex....they just want boobs or a penis, they’re using body parts like accessories and that is perverse. I don’t even live in a big city but I’ve noticed a pretty big rise in the amount of trans people I see in everyday life. The people we associate ourselves with and our environments as a whole has a huge impact on our sexuality and overall identity so yes the way we view and accept certain ideologies certainly have an influence on what we find acceptable for ourselves.
 

mecca

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if they can’t change that regardless of what their bodies look like then what’s the point of altering their bodies then?
Because they have dysphoria about what their body actually looks like. And they also have social dysphoria when people don't see them as the gender they are. But transitioning does not look the same for every trans person... some do not get any surgeries at all... it depends on the specific needs of the individual.

That's why I said that if gender roles/stereotypes are reduced, there would probably be a reduction in the more serious aspects of transitioning because transgender people's social dysphoria would probably be reduced at least somewhat.. But their body dysphoria would still be there and they would still want to transition in some way. Even just changing their name and pronouns is a form of transitioning. For some people that's enough but for others it isn't.
I’m fairly confident a lot of them are confused about their gender because they didn’t fit the mold of what society deemed appropriate for their sex.
Plenty of people don't fit the mold but they might call themselves a "feminine man" or a "masculine woman"... most don't think that they are in the wrong body because they don't actually have a problem with their body, they have a problem with how society is trying to push them into a box based on their sex. But actual transgender people, regardless of gender roles, don't feel comfortable with the way their body reflects their biological sex.

Even if super strict gender roles were completely removed, trans people would still be trans because something in their brain is telling them that they should be the opposite sex. Regardless of what society says it means to be a man or a woman, they still feel like they should be on the other side.

I've heard transgender people say that they actually only felt comfortable enough to break gender stereotypes after they transitioned because they feel more secure in their own self/identity and they no longer feel the need to overcompensate.
Also the premise between being trans and having an ED is pretty similar if not the same.
You would think that because they appear to be similar externally, but the methods used to treat eating disorders don't actually work to alleviate gender dysphoria in transgender people.
Being dependent upon hormones your whole life doesn’t seem safe to me.
It is safe, you have to be evaluated beforehand for any abnormal conditions you might have that can be worsened by taking hormones... and those people who are unable to take it because it would hurt them just have to find other ways to cope. But the rest of the people who are able to take hormones actually take them because they need them. The benefits of taking hormones greatly outweighs any risk that it might have for them. It improves their lives and helps them function... if they didn't take them, they would have a lower quality of life.
They are actively making an effort to make it legal for children under 16 to start hormone therapy to make their transition seamless even though the majority of gender confused children change their mind.
That's a difficult topic because it is hard for children who have gender dysphoria to simply wait for over 10 years to start transitioning... but the actual process of determining if a child is transgender is a very involved one and the ones who would just change their minds aren't going on hormones. If a child seems to be transgender, they don't start off with giving them hormones. They do still have to wait a number of years to accurately determine if the child will stay that way. Only when medical professionals are certain that a child is actually trans will they actually start recommending transitioning. And the transitioning process for young people doesn't get to any irreversible aspects until they are older.
there’s a growing amount of people who do it not because they hate their bodies but because they “feel more positively” about being the opposite sex....they just want boobs or a penis, they’re using body parts like accessories
Well I don't think that's beneficial and I think people should make sure that they are serious about transitioning before they do it. If you have no dysphoria about your body and no real need or desire to change your body, then I don't see why you would transition at all. If transitioning would be unnecessary for a fulfilling life, I would not consider it to be the best choice for someone.

I do want to point out that truly believing your life would be much better if you were living as the opposite sex is a form of dysphoria... but if it is not intense dysphoria and it doesn't make you feel wrong about your body, then I personally think those people could do without transitioning. But ultimately if someone is certain that transitioning will be beneficial to them, I can't bar them from doing that.
 
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