Mass expulsion under way as Israel plans to deport 40,000 Africans

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#63
None of that matters.
I agree. Secularly, it doesnt matter. But since Douglas tried to use the bible as justification, I just thought I should point out what other parts of it says. If he had took your stance then I wouldnt have said what I did because you're right. It doesnt matter (secularly wise).

The present sovereign nation of Israel has been recognized as such by the international community for 70 years. They can be secular and have gay parades every day of the week if they want to. It doesn't change their legal status as a nation.
Well some consider what man (i.e. the "International community")recognizes as binding and others consider what God recognizes as binding. Tomato Tomahto I guess. So you're correct that they can be secular and gay just as other nations are. But the "Israel" of the bible? Nope.
 





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#64
God is not done yet, The whole of Revelation from chapter 4 through 21 is when God will allow tribulation to separate the Israel of God by the preaching of the 144,000 Jews. Israel is by no means given a pass of their sins except by the blood of Christ. (Rom. 9:6-13), Not all Israel are Israelis. There are seven Judgments in Scripture. One of them will be the Judgment of Israel as individuals. (Psalms 50:16-22) and the results of that Judgment (Ezek. 20:38). Jew or Gentile sin is sin and will be judgement upon all who do not repent.
But God said that when they obeyed He'd gather them. Thats not mentioned in Revelations, but is referenced in places such as Deuteronomy, 1st or 2nd Chronicles, Jeremiah etc. He didnt say He'd gather them in disobedience, bring them into the land, watch them defile His land (again) and then go from there.

If we're going to use the "the land was promised to them by God" explanation, then I think we should take all of these things into account. If we dont believe the bible, then, well they went to war and won so to the victor goes the spoils.

Actually KM, God said He would bring them back to their land in spite of themselves to show that He is God and for His own name....not because they were obedient, (Ezekiel 36:18-36)
The problem is, Chapter 20 says that God will bring Israel into the wilderness to where they will meet Him face to face(vs 35). He then says He will purge the rebels from their midst BEFORE they enter the land(vs 38). This obviously did not happen unless we consider the God of Abraham as supportive of homosexuality and racism.

And I bring this up only to people who try to use the bible as justification of that state of Israel. To those who are secular, the Israeli's (who really came from Eastern Europe), came and conquered so if the world considers that okay, then its okay...
 





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#65
She’s the VC version of Carrie White
Fortunately for all of us, including the real Carrie Whites, "Greater is He that is within us than he that is in the world".

I believe in forgiveness, deliverance and redemption (and I suspect you do too!)

Perhaps the message of the Jews is that there was nothing "special" about them and they haven't been particularly holy. The disciples were a mixed bag too. None of us are much better. It is perhaps easy to sit in judgement over all of us but I still remember watching an advert where I understood Matthew 7:12.

 





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#67
Fortunately for all of us, including the real Carrie Whites, "Greater is He that is within us than he that is in the world".

I believe in forgiveness, deliverance and redemption (and I suspect you do too!)

Perhaps the message of the Jews is that there was nothing "special" about them and they haven't been particularly holy. The disciples were a mixed bag too. None of us are much better. It is perhaps easy to sit in judgement over all of us but I still remember watching an advert where I understood Matthew 7:12.

You’re someone I will always respect and admire because your are truly Christ like and I hope I can achieve that someday. I just have lost all patience, respect, and compassion with Tanya. I even apologized to her privately because I felt bad for being rude to her but she crossed a line when she posted one of our members’ information publically as well lots of pictures of gore. I can forgive her but I won’t forget.
 





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#68
You’re someone I will always respect and admire because your are truly Christ like and I hope I can achieve that someday. I just have lost all patience, respect, and compassion with Tanya. I even apologized to her privately because I felt bad for being rude to her but she crossed a line when she posted one of our members’ information publically as well lots of pictures of gore. I can forgive her but I won’t forget.
I was "bad news" before I hit a bump in the road and God dealt with me about five years ago now, @Violette - these days I tend go with the advice of John Wayne ;-)

85a07e44d65619bb552e542f24aad06e.jpg

Sometimes we are the one who is hurt. Sometimes we are the ones who do the hurting. We deserve judgement, we need Grace.

 





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#69
And I bring this up only to people who try to use the bible as justification of that state of Israel. To those who are secular, the Israeli's (who really came from Eastern Europe), came and conquered so if the world considers that okay, then its okay...
Hi KM, They came from where they were scattered to. There is not enough room to quote all the Scriptures, But study these few (Deut. 28:63-68) (Ezekiel Chapter 36).
 





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#70
Hi KM, They came from where they were scattered to. There is not enough room to quote all the Scriptures, But study these few (Deut. 28:63-68) (Ezekiel Chapter 36).
But if its them being regathered then you would have to also include the part in Ezekiel 20 about them seeing God face to face in the wilderness BEFORE entering the land. Or where Deuteronomy 30 says they'd be gathered WHEN they obey. Neither of these things happened so we're to base it as biblical because simply there is a nation called Israel filled with people who are secular and not based on what God said would happen?

And if I took it a step further, we could also point out how some/most of them claim to be Ashkenazi Jews, when "their" scriptures say Ashkenaz came Japheth

Genesis 10
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

Nothing about the nation/state Israel fits what the bible says would happen...
 





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#71
Are you for real?

Lol....and on the 8th day God decided to declare that Israel should have It's own patch of land....which would be bigger than Texas.

What type of Bible do you read?... I want one.

Your Thunderbots younger brother aren't you?

I suppose God organised these meetings also?

I just wanted to acknowledge that we share a similar taste in YouTube channels, though I disagree with their perspective on Israel.
 





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#72
But if its them being regathered then you would have to also include the part in Ezekiel 20 about them seeing God face to face in the wilderness BEFORE entering the land. Or where Deuteronomy 30 says they'd be gathered WHEN they obey. Neither of these things happened so we're to base it as biblical because simply there is a nation called Israel filled with people who are secular and not based on what God said would happen?

And if I took it a step further, we could also point out how some/most of them claim to be Ashkenazi Jews, when "their" scriptures say Ashkenaz came Japheth

Genesis 10
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

Nothing about the nation/state Israel fits what the bible says would happen...
Psalm 102 as a pattern of WW2, restoration and as an end times sign perhaps?

Psalm 102 King James Version (KJV)
102 Hear my prayer, O Lord, and let my cry come unto thee.

2 Hide not thy face from me in the day when I am in trouble; incline thine ear unto me: in the day when I call answer me speedily.

3 For my days are consumed like smoke, and my bones are burned as an hearth.

4 My heart is smitten, and withered like grass; so that I forget to eat my bread.

5 By reason of the voice of my groaning my bones cleave to my skin.

6 I am like a pelican of the wilderness: I am like an owl of the desert.

7 I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.

8 Mine enemies reproach me all the day; and they that are mad against me are sworn against me.

9 For I have eaten ashes like bread, and mingled my drink with weeping.

10 Because of thine indignation and thy wrath: for thou hast lifted me up, and cast me down.

11 My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.

12 But thou, O Lord, shall endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.

13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

14 For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof.

15 So the heathen shall fear the name of the Lord, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.

16 When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.

17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer.

18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the Lord.

19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the Lordbehold the earth;

20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;

21 To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem;

22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the Lord.

23 He weakened my strength in the way; he shortened my days.

24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.

25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

28 The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.
 





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#73
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/m...lans-deport-40000-african-migrants-2016476429

Mass expulsion under way as Israel plans to deport 40,000 Africans
#Refugees
Eritrean and Sudanese asylum seekers in Israel will be forced to accept a plane ticket to unsafe countries or face indefinite prison


Togod Omar has been waiting for a decision on his asylum application for five years (Tessa Fox/MEE)

TEL AVIV - Togod Omar was an activist in Sudan for five years, speaking out on democracy and labour issues, until his activities were brought to the attention of the Sudanese dictatorship.
"[The government] started attacking us and killing our friends inside the university. When they killed a friend of mine in front of my eyes, it was the final moment [for me]. I knew I had to hide myself," Omar told Middle East Eye.
Omar went into hiding for 10 months. "My life was in danger," Omar explained.
Government security personnel would frequently go to Omar's house looking for him. "They would ask my mother, ‘Where is Togod? We want him.'" The security forces would also stop Omar's brother on the way home from school and ask where he was.
Omar faced two choices: join the rebels and fight against the army or flee his homeland. "I thought a lot about what it means for me to take a weapon and kill people. I decided it wasn't an option for me."
As he didn't have a passport, Omar asked his uncle to help him buy a fake. In 2011, he used it to cross into Egypt and eventually into Israel, where he has lived for the past seven years.
Leave or be imprisoned
Israel plans to deport 40,000 African asylum seekers, with stories just like Omar's, starting in April this year.
They will be presented with the option of either accepting $3,500 and a plane ticket to an undefined country or an indefinite jail sentence.
The majority of asylum seekers entered Israel between 2006 and 2012 before a fence was built, closing off the route on the Egyptian border.

According to the Hotline for Refugees and Migrants, an average of only 0.15 percent of people filing asylum claims are recognised as refugees in Israel. The majority of asylum seekers in Israel - 73 percent - are from Eritrea and 19 percent are from Sudan.
Omar didn't originally plan to go to Israel. He believed he would face deportation in Egypt if he tried to seek asylum there.
"In 2005, the Egyptian government killed many Sudanese youth trying to deport them back to Sudan. Our country is cooperating with their government. They are going to deport you as long as you speak loudly against the Sudanese government," Omar said, explaining what made him continue through the Sinai.
"They tortured us there. We were without food or water for many days," Omar said, describing the route to Israel. "Many friends died on the way to here. It was very difficult in Sinai. The way to Israel was not simple."
Living a temporary existence
Now sitting in a community centre in Tel Aviv, behind the central bus stop, Omar is just about to give his weekly Hebrew lesson to other asylum seekers.
It's the same bus stop all asylum seekers crossing the Egyptian border were given a one-way ticket to upon arriving in Israel.
'They have no social welfare, no rights or insurances. Life is very hard'​

- Dror Sadot, spokesperson for Hotline for Refugees and Migrants
Dror Sadot, spokesperson for the Hotline for Refugees and Migrants, said the majority of asylum seekers continue to remain in the same area, without access to services.
"They have no social welfare, no rights or insurances. Life is very hard," Sadot told MEE.
While asylum seekers wait in Israel for their application to be checked, they are granted a temporary protection visa, or as Israel calls it a ‘temporary delay of deportation'.
According to Hotline it's a "legal status that denies them all rights except the right to remain in Israel until their deportation is made possible".
A long-devised plan
Sadot said Israel has been trying to enact the current deportation plan since 2014, offering the same amount of money to leave voluntarily.
In 2015, the Israeli government stepped up the pressure. "Either they go to a third country or they'll be in prison," he said.
The new plan, Sadot said, made its way through the Supreme Court for two years until a verdict came out at the end of last year.
Read more ►​

"It said that Israel can theoretically undertake this procedure, but only if those third countries are willing to accept those people against their will," Sadot said.
Under the prior agreement, Rwanda, for example, was only going to accept people if they wanted to go there.
ASSAF's (Aid Organisation for Refugees and Asylum Seekers in Israel) public advocacy coordinator, Adi Drori-Avraham, confirmed that the new strategy has been on the table for a long time.
"It's just an escalation of the policy. Now there's talk of forcibly putting people on planes," Drori-Avraham told MEE.
'Refugees twice'
The countries the asylum seekers will be deported to remain classified. There has been wide speculation that deals are being made with Rwanda and Uganda, although these countrieshave denied they are involved.
Sadot has major concerns with deporting asylum seekers to unsafe countries.
Through testimonies gathered by Hotline for Refugees and Migrants and various other refugee groups, Sadot shows that people who previously arrived in Rwanda or Uganda through the agreement with Israel have once again been smuggled out of the country.
"All their documents are taken away, [people in the third countries] know they are coming with cash Israel gave them, so they're made to pay smugglers to get them out of the country again because they have no work permit and no refugee status there," Sadot explained.
Israel's notorious Holot detention centre in the Negev desert (AFP)
"What's safe about that? They have to do their journeys all over again. Now they're refugees twice, because no one granted them legitimate status."
Uganda may have denied being part of the arrangement, but "we know they've received thousands of people in the last few years", she said.
Sitting in a cafe just up the road from the central bus station in Tel Aviv, Eritrean asylum seeker Teklit Michael described Israel's plan to pay Africans to leave the country as "legal human trafficking".
"I've paid people-smugglers, now Israel is paying to smuggle me back. I know how it works," Michael told MEE.
"Don't deport me to another country," Michael said, as if speaking to an Israeli officer.
"You have to start from the beginning, from scratch. Wait until my country is safe, and then deport me back to my home country. I have family and friends there."
No option to return home
For now, returning to Eritrea is out of the question for Michael. "For me, it's death, because I'm an activist and I open my mouth," Michael said.
Eritrea has no judiciary, has never had democratic elections and citizens are forced to perform national service with no end date.
"They are a recruit for life," Hotline's Sadot said. "It's more like slavery. Some spend 20 to 40 years without seeing their families. They don't get paid. It's not like there's a war in Eritrea right now, so they're just building roads."
Every month, more than 1,000 soldiers flee national service and their homeland of Eritrea.
Amnesty has said the system amounts to "forced labour on a national scale".
Michael was forced to join the Eritrean army when he was 17. "I wanted to continue my studies and my sports. They refused, they wanted me to be a soldier and a slave," he explained.
Michael left the military base when he was 19 and tried to cross the border to Sudan. "[The Eritrean army] shot three bullets at me, but I ran away and they missed," Michael said.
In total, he paid $2,000 for people-smugglers across the border into Egypt and then into Israel. Michael has now lived in Israel for 10 years.
Ignoring asylum requests
But Israel believes people fleeing the military are not refugees, and are instead deserters, Sadot explains. So all Eritrean asylum applications are automatically rejected.
In comparison, the majority of countries around the world grant refugee status to 90 percent of Eritreans, according to Hotline.
Michael applied for asylum four years ago and is still awaiting an answer.
Teklit Michael fled Eritrea 10 years ago and he is still waiting for refugee status (Tessa Fox/MEE)
Omar sought asylum five years ago. "In the beginning, I thought maybe Israel was a democratic country. Until now, I have no answer from the government," Omar said, pointing to the systematic handling of refugees in Israel.
Israel only made it possible in 2013 for people from Eritrea and Sudan to apply for asylum.
"Then we see Israel just ignoring these requests, systematically," Sadot said, referring to the years living in limbo.
For now, both Michael and Omar appear somewhat safe from deportation. "Whoever has an open asylum application is temporarily protected," Drori-Avraham said.
This isn't comforting news though, considering the rejection rate and the possibility of rejections being made more swiftly now Israel has a finalised deportation order.
'This is about skin colour'
"For today, I'm not affected, but they want to deport every African. This is their plan. This is about skin colour. All the system is based on racism," Michael said.
Omar isn't comforted by the exception clause. "They can target everybody," Omar said.
He explained each migrant is on the same temporary visa, whether they have sought asylum or not. "They're very dynamic visas, sometimes it's three months, two months, sometimes one week."
'I can't say I'm happy here. Maybe I can smile, but I can't laugh'​

- Omar, Sudanese asylum seeker
Like Michael, Omar mentions that the intimidation of the African community has been going on for years. "Each time you renew your visa, they say it's not your country and you have to go back to Africa," Omar said.
Asylum seekers and African migrants say they are worn down by the situation in Israel. "A lot of people are against you," Omar said.
"I can't say I'm happy here. Maybe I can smile, but I can't laugh."
Omar believes the majority of Sudanese people in the diaspora are waiting for the government in Khartoum to collapse so they can return home. "To be in your homeland is the happiest place you could be. I have no future here in Israel."
This article is available in French on Middle East Eye French edition.
People should stay where they were born. Especially not come to Israel, which is a pretty racist state
 





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#74
But if its them being regathered then you would have to also include the part in Ezekiel 20 about them seeing God face to face in the wilderness BEFORE entering the land. Or where Deuteronomy 30 says they'd be gathered WHEN they obey. Neither of these things happened so we're to base it as biblical because simply there is a nation called Israel filled with people who are secular and not based on what God said would happen?

And if I took it a step further, we could also point out how some/most of them claim to be Ashkenazi Jews, when "their" scriptures say Ashkenaz came Japheth

Genesis 10
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

Nothing about the nation/state Israel fits what the bible says would happen...
Many of the prophecies are dual and speaking of different events and times in the same Scripture. A good example is Isaiah 61:1-3 with Luke 4:18-19.
 





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#75
Psalm 102 as a pattern of WW2, restoration and as an end times sign perhaps?

Psalm 102 King James Version (KJV)
102 Hear my prayer, O Lord, and let my cry come unto thee.

2 Hide not thy face from me in the day when I am in trouble; incline thine ear unto me: in the day when I call answer me speedily.

3 For my days are consumed like smoke, and my bones are burned as an hearth.

4 My heart is smitten, and withered like grass; so that I forget to eat my bread.

5 By reason of the voice of my groaning my bones cleave to my skin.

6 I am like a pelican of the wilderness: I am like an owl of the desert.

7 I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.

8 Mine enemies reproach me all the day; and they that are mad against me are sworn against me.

9 For I have eaten ashes like bread, and mingled my drink with weeping.

10 Because of thine indignation and thy wrath: for thou hast lifted me up, and cast me down.

11 My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.

12 But thou, O Lord, shall endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.

13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

14 For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof.

15 So the heathen shall fear the name of the Lord, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.

16 When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.

17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer.

18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the Lord.

19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the Lordbehold the earth;

20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;

21 To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem;

22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the Lord.

23 He weakened my strength in the way; he shortened my days.

24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.

25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

28 The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.
Honestly I dont see it.
 





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#77
Many of the prophecies are dual and speaking of different events and times in the same Scripture. A good example is Isaiah 61:1-3 with Luke 4:18-19.
Theres nothing biblical about the same prophecies happening twice...

Thats like saying in your belief system that Jesus will come and die for people's sins twice. You wouldnt say that because it doesnt make sense but you'll say it here because the "regathering of Israel" in regards to the nation/state of Israel doesnt make sense when comparing it with what God said in the old testament.

Of course to each their own...
 





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#78
Check the possible Hebrew meanings on "the generation to come", have a look at Matthew 24 and you might see it.
I always thought if anything, Matthew 24 referred to the temple being destroyed so Im still having a hard time making that connection to WW2. But maybe its my beliefs about the things I posted thats stopping me from seeing what you do...
 





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#79
Theres nothing biblical about the same prophecies happening twice...
Not sure what you are saying here. You missed the proof of the post. The Lord will do what he promised, but people have other ideas of what God should do...and are against Israel. We have different teachers. One day we will be rewarded or chastised for what was in our hearts.