Man Forcefully Dragged Off Overbooked United Flight

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,516
KM, you're not listening, and you're not making sense.

The accusation was that racism in the US is an institutionalized, pervasive and coordinated plan to keep the black man down, and when all the legislation and programs are listed whose goal it is to combat racist actions, you pivot and say that none of this eliminates racism in the heart.

Well it may be a shock to you, but these things aren't intended to eliminate racism in the heart. They are intended to prevent the racism in people's hearts from having a severely adverse effect on other people. Why the US would waste so much time and energy keeping black people down and no other race doesn't make any sense, either, but we can leave that for now.

Now it's on you to explain how a supposedly completely racist country has managed to pass law after law after law protecting black people from racist actions, and how this same country has elected not only a black president, but routinely has black people in every facet of government and public service. These are not the actions of a country where racism is carrying the day, so either learn to deal with and incorporate facts into your worldview, or find stupider people to discuss these matters with.
 
Last edited:

rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,573
Can you elaborate on the point you're making with the class in regards to racism not going away with legislation? Im having trouble connecting your story with my opinion that legislation on a piece of paper doesnt erase the hate that is in one's heart. COINTELPRO, in my opinion, show America's determination on disrupting the uplifting of the black community. The Black Panther Party was on the way to being a self sufficient force in their Oakland community by providing FREE breakfasts, health checkups, as well as self policing their communities. Now a non-racist society that wants equality for everyone and doesnt want people asking for handouts would applaud these activities right? If your class covered them, Im sure you're aware of what actually happened.

When theres an issue, its usually two sides on one extreme or the other, with the truth somewhere in the middle. So while I definitely see blacks who will trip over a rock and blame white supremacy or steal and say the whiteman made them do it, I also see those whites who rather cover their eyes in regards to history and pretend as if it has NO effect on today and that every claim of racism is "pulling the race card". I try to stay in the middle somewhere, acknowledging the obstacles that Im up against, but taking responsibility in regards to doing my best to avoid/overcome them. Some blacks are like that, others rather play the victim the whole time. At the end of the day though, the history of America kind of explains itself. And I personally cannot believe that 400 years of continuous hate/discrimination/oppression, disappeared in the 60's and 70's with the stroke(s) of a pen in regards to legislation.
I don't think an example of the treatment of the Black Panther party is a fair comparison to what I said. This event would still have taken place before about 15 years before I was born. The change in legislation has changed hearts for people who were raised in a different generation after this all took place. Each generation will continue to change because of this. I don't believe this is evidence that change did not take place in people hearts at all.

I do remember learning about the Black Panther party. The early movement is very cool. My class in college was more about promoting that kind of behavior within the black community. He would emphasize the structure that used to exist that allowed black people to survive so many years of racism with such dignity. He believed that the breakdown of this structure that accomplished so much during the time of movements like the Black Panther movement, was what needed to be restored. As a result of this, I do feel that more African American centered education should be offered at the college level and in younger grade levels. High school should offer African American history as well. This would help continue changing things and develop a sense of identity for African Americans as a part of American history.

I actually strongly support this because my teacher would explain how being taken as slaves erased their sense of history and culture to a certain extent. It would help to restore this by offering more African American history. I also support finding a way to provide restitution in some way since this was never fulfilled when slavery ended. So not everyone still carries the belief that black people have enough and shouldn't complain. However, not everything is still created by racism either. Some things will just still take time to accomplish. If I ran for president, this is what I would want to do. I don't think I am the only one, but some things take time to manifest.

Therefore, it was always more than a piece of legislation to begin with, and 20 years after the civil rights movements reflects this by the drastic changes in curriculum that promoted the belief that the civil rights movement benefited everyone. My generation was able to enjoy these things and they have influenced our worldview in a new way. Things are not the same as they were and it has nothing to do with legislation. That was only a part of it.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
2,345
KM, you're not listening, and you're not making sense.

The accusation was that racism in the US is an institutionalized, pervasive and coordinated plan to keep the black man down, and when all the legislation and programs are listed whose goal it is to combat racist actions, you pivot and say that none of this eliminates racism in the heart.

Well it may be a shock to you, but these things aren't intended to eliminate racism in the heart. They are intended to prevent the racism in people's hearts from having a severely adverse on other people. Why the US would waste so much time and energy keeping black people down and no other race doesn't make any sense, either, but we can leave that for now.

Now it's on you to explain how a supposedly completely racist country has managed to pass law after law after law protecting black people from racist actions, and how this same country has elected not only a black president, but routinely has black people in every facet of government and public service. These are not the actions of a country where racism is carrying the day, so either learn to deal with and incorporate facts into your worldview, or find stupider people to discuss these matters with.
If you want to know why they focused/focus on holding down blacks, why dont you google Cointelpro and see what exactly they were trying to stop the rise of? I'd say it myself but you know theres that saying about messengers and not shooting or something. But I guess once copro disbands all the black social movements of the civil rights movement that aimed to uplift the black community (more or less)and kills/jails the leaders, THEN they can aim to be equal?

So its not that Im not making sense, its just that you didnt want to respond to what I said. I get that you want to defend America and all that it stands for but I have to call a spade a spade. Remember that guy who said you'll know them by their fruits? Now what kind of "fruits" does America have on its hands in regards to black people? Do I think the hate that produced whatever "fruits" you say (good or bad) America has shown, got erased because some laws were passed? No. Without mentioning that alot of the laws you brought were in the 1800's when it was still legal to lynch blacks as well as findings that say that blacks are given more time than whites even when committing the same crimes. In all, simply pointing to laws being passed is hardly "proof" of America's equality. Because the people who are behind the law's hearts need to change before anything can really change. Because when no one's looking who's to say they act according to how they're supposed to? That goes for anyone from police, to judges, to ultimately the elite who I do not know if you believe in or not.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
2,345
I don't think an example of the treatment of the Black Panther party is a fair comparison to what I said. This event would still have taken place before about 15 years before I was born. The change in legislation has changed hearts for people who were raised in a different generation after this all took place. Each generation will continue to change because of this. I don't believe this is evidence that change did not take place in people hearts at all.

I do remember learning about the Black Panther party. The early movement is very cool. My class in college was more about promoting that kind of behavior within the black community. He would emphasize the structure that used to exist that allowed black people to survive so many years of racism with such dignity. He believed that the breakdown of this structure that accomplished so much during the time of movements like the Black Panther movement, was what needed to be restored. As a result of this, I do feel that more African American centered education should be offered at the college level and in younger grade levels. High school should offer African American history as well. This would help continue changing things and develop a sense of identity for African Americans as a part of American history.

I actually strongly support this because my teacher would explain how being taken as slaves erased their sense of history and culture to a certain extent. It would help to restore this by offering more African American history. I also support finding a way to provide restitution in some way since this was never fulfilled when slavery ended. So not everyone still carries the belief that black people have enough and shouldn't complain. However, not everything is still created by racism either. Some things will just still take time to accomplish. If I ran for president, this is what I would want to do. I don't think I am the only one, but some things take time to manifest.

Therefore, it was always more than a piece of legislation to begin with, and 20 years after the civil rights movements reflects this by the drastic changes in curriculum that promoted the belief that the civil rights movement benefited everyone. My generation was able to enjoy these things and they have influenced our worldview in a new way. Things are not the same as they were and it has nothing to do with legislation. That was only a part of it.
Essentially its like you're saying 15-30 years erased 300-400 years and that being taught about slavery and how it was bad means that theres no systematic racism. Or from the go'vt's perspective, once we disband the social movements, THEN we can get to making things equal. The panther stuff shows that at least 40 years ago, the goal was to stifle blacks, and I dont think I've seen anything in the last 40 years to show that that has changed. The war on drugs contradicts that belief imo. But maybe you're saying that people in general are less racist and maybe thats true, but I dont think the system has changed one bit. Its just that instead of being out in the open, its more behind the scenes now. Thats just my view though but when I see things like Eric Garner being choked to death by a cop with 8 more watching, and actually see people supporting the cop's side of things? I think my view is supported. Or when they come out with stats that blacks are given more time than whites when charged with the same crime...
 
Top