Man Forcefully Dragged Off Overbooked United Flight

Etagloc

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I agree with the OP. I'm sure that the conditions were real. But the amount of attention and the outrage being encouraged by the media is making me suspect that this is a unique twist on agitprop. Remember, this was not an issue of overbooking, which the news keeps saying that it was (actually they were making room for employees). I have to wonder what effects might this story cause if so?
There doesn't need to be a conspiracy in order to create racial tension. It's been around for something like 500 years, Trump has made it worse and it's simply not going anywhere. Dealing with racism is simply a reality for minorities, it's not in the imagination. But sometimes you don't know a person's motivation and it can play with your mind. It's an aspect of racism that I don't really hear talked about.
 

bbsion

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There doesn't need to be a conspiracy in order to create racial tension. It's been around for something like 500 years, Trump has made it worse and it's simply not going anywhere. Dealing with racism is simply a reality for minorities, it's not in the imagination. But sometimes you don't know a person's motivation and it can play with your mind. It's an aspect of racism that I don't really hear talked about.
I do believe racism is real and it is a problem. But it's not a problem on the scale of what the media wants to make us believe. They exaggerate a problem to either distract the masses or to heard the masses toward a specific end goal. The media always putting racism front and center and blowing it out of proportion makes the problem worse. And "they" know that.

Anywhere I've lived and anywhere I've traveled I have personally never seen blatant acts of racism. Especially not the likes of what is reported in the news. I do not deny that it exists... only that it's not as common and not as big a problem as we perceive sometimes. Sometimes someone being rude is not even racism, it's just someone having a bad day and being human.
 

Etagloc

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I do believe racism is real and it is a problem. But it's not a problem on the scale of what the media wants to make us believe. They exaggerate a problem to either distract the masses or to heard the masses toward a specific end goal. The media always putting racism front and center and blowing it out of proportion makes the problem worse. And "they" know that.

Anywhere I've lived and anywhere I've traveled I have personally never seen blatant acts of racism. Especially not the likes of what is reported in the news. I do not deny that it exists... only that it's not as common and not as big a problem as we perceive sometimes. Sometimes someone being rude is not even racism, it's just someone having a bad day and being human.
SHOCKING NEWS OF THE DAY: WHITE PERSON NOT PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT RACISM
 

Thunderian

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If America is as racist as we are all expected to believe, how have Asians become so successful in America? They are better educated and make more money than any other race. The guy who was kicked off the plane wasn't some coolie on his way to a work camp to build a railroad for the white man. He was a doctor.

From an article on the subject:

Asian-Americans, like Jews, are indeed a problem for the “social-justice” brigade. I mean, how on earth have both ethnic groups done so well in such a profoundly racist society? How have bigoted white people allowed these minorities to do so well — even to the point of earning more, on average, than whites? Asian-Americans, for example, have been subject to some of the most brutal oppression, racial hatred, and open discrimination over the years. In the late 19th century, as most worked in hard labor, they were subject to lynchings and violence across the American West and laws that prohibited their employment. They were banned from immigrating to the U.S. in 1924. Japanese-American citizens were forced into internment camps during the Second World War, and subjected to hideous, racist propaganda after Pearl Harbor. Yet, today, Asian-Americans are among the most prosperous, well-educated, and successful ethnic groups in America. What gives? It couldn’t possibly be that they maintained solid two-parent family structures, had social networks that looked after one another, placed enormous emphasis on education and hard work, and thereby turned false, negative stereotypes into true, positive ones, could it? It couldn’t be that all whites are not racists or that the American dream still lives?
 

Etagloc

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Minorities have been concerned about racism for hundreds of years.... way before anyone knew what a social justice warrior is. It's very easy for white people to downplay racism. They're not the ones who have to deal with it. For them it's a mere theoretical issue.

Who is it that actually knows what minorities experience? Minorities or white people?

White people can try to give lectures on what they don't know about but don't get mad when minorities take it as a joke. If the white people who downplay racism were another race, there's a 99.999% chance they'd see things very differently.
 

rainerann

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You can really find this anywhere if you google it so I will not really bother citing a link to any specific news site.

What happened: United Airlines needed to open up 4 seats for their employees because they overbooked the flight. Apparently this happens often enough and they usually offer compensation for anyone who voluntarily gives up their seat. On this flight no one voluntarily gave up their seat. So the airline stated they needed to use an algorithm to randomly select the people who would need to get off the flight. They did so. One of the people asked to leave the flight was a 69 year man. He refused and stated that he is a doctor and has patients that he needs to see the next day so he cannot get off. They called security to remove him from the flight because he became irate. As he is being forcefully removed he bangs his head on one of the arms of the chairs and starts to bleed. They continue to drag the "irate" man down the aisle while everyone watches and records it with their phones. Apparently, some of the accounts from passengers was that the man was yelling something like "it's because I am Chinese". Also, I guess everyone that witnessed it was disturbed and felt like the man was wronged. After the man was dragged off, he apparently was able to run back on to the plane and up and down the aisles saying "I need to get home", over and over again.

Problems I see: I think there are too many issues with this whole story. At first glance I felt like that man was mistreated and felt bad for him. But after taking a closer look I kinda feel like this event was staged. I am not sure if the man was in on it or not. Is this another "race" issue that needed to rise up in the media? Apparently many Chinese people are upset over the events. Many claiming to boycott United Airlines. Others speaking out about being discriminated against. Racism in the media gets a lot of attention after all. Did this happen on "United" airlines to show how un"United" we are? Why did not a single passenger stand up and say, "Hey! Hows about you stop treating that old man like that and let me take his place. I'll get off the plane."?? Why did they not let him stay on the flight if he indeed was a doctor and had patients to see the next day? I guess they offered $800 in vouchers for passengers to get off the plane and make room for their employees. You mean absolutely NO ONE jumped on that even after being "disturbed" by the mistreatment of a 69 year old Chinese doctor? Most clips I've watched seem to be partial clips with edited audio. Maybe someone did offer and that was something they did not want heard in the news? Also, after being so forcefully removed from the plane... did the guards just leave him in the terminal, brush it off, and leave? How did he get back on to make such a dramatic scene

I know this might seem insignificant... probably because it is. But, it's still news nonetheless and I think I am either cursed or blessed by not believing everything I see in the news.

Any opinions or thoughts to add?
I think you make a fantastic point. Why didn't anyone volunteer to give up there seat when they heard the man give his reason for not wanting to give up his seat. People are selfish. I am guessing that there is at least one person on that plane who would not have been inconvenienced by waiting for another flight. That bothers me. I would have given up my seat if I saw something like that.
 
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I do believe racism is real and it is a problem. But it's not a problem on the scale of what the media wants to make us believe. They exaggerate a problem to either distract the masses or to heard the masses toward a specific end goal. The media always putting racism front and center and blowing it out of proportion makes the problem worse. And "they" know that.

Anywhere I've lived and anywhere I've traveled I have personally never seen blatant acts of racism. Especially not the likes of what is reported in the news. I do not deny that it exists... only that it's not as common and not as big a problem as we perceive sometimes. Sometimes someone being rude is not even racism, it's just someone having a bad day and being human.
The media usually overfocuses on possible acts of blatant racism, but not the systematic aspects of racism. The systematic aspect of racism is very real and still very alive. Since its not "acceptable" anymore to be blatantly racist, they changed to doing it covertly.
 

Thunderian

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Because America is particularly concerned with being racist against blacks/hispanics/arabs....Asians, not so much...
So America is racist against everyone but Asians now? When did that change, and what were the circumstances?
 

Etagloc

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So America is racist against everyone but Asians now? When did that change, and what were the circumstances?
This is exactly why I'm not out to debate this stuff. What Koncrete mentioned is just common sense amongst minorities. You don't even have to explain it when you're talking to minorities. Whereas for you it's- gasp- brand new information. What's very old news for minorities is brand new information for you. Stick to what you know.
 

Etagloc

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Just to illustrate how old this is- not saying I agree with his approach but Ice Cube was addressing this in like.... 1992. Also, look up the term "model minority". You can't try to teach calculus if you haven't even got arithmetic down.
 

Thunderian

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This is exactly why I'm not out to debate this stuff. What Koncrete mentioned is just common sense amongst minorities. You don't even have to explain it when you're talking to minorities. Whereas for you it's- gasp- brand new information. What's very old news for minorities is brand new information for you. Stick to what you know.
Common sense amongst all minorities except Asians, right? You are making a lot of assumptions about what I know and don't know. What if I said to a black guy that he wasn't allowed to talk about something or repeat facts because he was black?

And you refuse to address the point, which is that Asians have endured incredible racism but have somehow managed to thrive in spite of it. Racism by white people doesn't distinguish between races -- white racists are racist against everyone who is not white. The idea that racist white people have somehow gotten over their racism toward Asians but have retained it for blacks and latinos is almost too stupid to countenance.

No one is saying that racism doesn't exist, but the notion that America is just too racist for anyone but white people to succeed does not reflect reality at all. How does a black man become president of a racist nation? How do Asians become richer and better educated than most white people? Maybe a better question would be, how is it that after almost 60 years of affirmative action and equal rights legislation in the US, the black community is measurably worse off than they were in 1960?

Maybe the answer isn't handouts. Maybe the answer is to let blacks find their own level of success for themselves -- just as Asians, Jews, Indians, Irish and everyone else who has been discriminated against in the US have -- without any "help" from the government.
 

Etagloc

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Common sense amongst all minorities except Asians, right? You are making a lot of assumptions about what I know and don't know. What if I said to a black guy that he wasn't allowed to talk about something or repeat facts because he was black?

And you refuse to address the point, which is that Asians have endured incredible racism but have somehow managed to thrive in spite of it. Racism by white people doesn't distinguish between races -- white racists are racist against everyone who is not white. The idea that racist white people have somehow gotten over their racism toward Asians but have retained it for blacks and latinos is almost too stupid to countenance.

No one is saying that racism doesn't exist, but the notion that America is just too racist for anyone but white people to succeed does not reflect reality at all. How does a black man become president of a racist nation? How do Asians become richer and better educated than most white people? Maybe a better question would be, how is it that after almost 60 years of affirmative action and equal rights legislation in the US, the black community is measurably worse off than they were in 1960?

Maybe the answer isn't handouts. Maybe the answer is to let blacks find their own level of success for themselves -- just as Asians, Jews, Indians, Irish and everyone else who has been discriminated against in the US have -- without any "help" from the government.
The issue is not you being white. I really don't care if someone is white. I'm not against white people. I've said on this site how I admire Zizek, Jose Ortega y Gassett, Jacques Ellul, Hegel.

Now, just for fun, let's imagine Jacques Ellul and Hegel lived in the same time period. Ellul was French and Hegel was German. Suppose Hegel wrote a treatise on "What is it like to be German" and talked about what life is like for Germans. Suppose Ellul- the French philosopher- wrote a treatise totally disagreeing with Hegel and saying "no, THIS is what it's like to be a German".

As a French person, it already would be somewhat ridiculous for Ellul to try to say what being German is like. I mean maybe if he took some real interest in German culture and really intensely studied it, he could develop some theories but he'll never understand it like a German will. If I want to know about being German, I'm going to ask Hegel. I'm not gonna ask Ellul. Ellul knows nothing about being German. When he goes to sleep, he's French. When he wakes up, he's still French. If I want to know about growing up in France, I'm not going to ask somebody who grew up in Italy.

It would be extremely boorish for a French person to tell a German what being German is like.

Someone might say this is racist and- in a certain technical sense I think it is racist. But it's reality. A French person shouldn't walk up to a group of German people and try to tell them what being German is like. It would be extremely arrogant and presumptuous for a French person to assume he knows about being German better than Germans know about being German.

As far as the Asian thing, as I said- Ice Cube was addressing it in like 1992.

Here is Atlantic running a story about the same thing Koncrete was talking about
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/professional-burdens-model-minority-asian-americans/485492/

The fact that it's news to you shows that you're out of touch when it comes to these issues.

Also I have no idea why you brought up handouts. I wasn't mentioning anything about handouts. That's a totally different issue. When a doctor notices there's a disease- that disease is objectively there. It objectively exists. It's not some illusion within the doctor's perception. You identify the disease. That is the essential first step. What you do about the disease..... that's a whole other issue.
 
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Thunderian

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But I'm not telling black people what it's like to be black, and I'm not saying that racism is a myth. I am saying that the evidence that America is just a big, bad racist country does not exist. I am as big a fan of Ice Cube as the next guy, but the facts don't lie.
 

Thunderian

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Maybe the normal people aren't racist but the systems are.
Don't believe the hype, mecca. America has done nothing but try and institutionalize fair treatment and equality for blacks under it's legal and welfare systems. If blacks choose to focus on the racist actions of a minority of jerks instead of taking the opportunities that are available to them, they have no one to blame but themselves and those in their own community who promote the idea that the deck is eternally, systematically stacked against black people.

What legislation, constitutional amendments, executive orders and specially created bureaucratic departments do you feel are missing in the US today? What would you add to the following list? By the way, I have not included the court decisions in the US made on behalf of blacks because it took the character count of the post too high.

Bills signed into law
U.S. Constitutional Amendments
Executive Orders and Proclamations
Federal bureaucracy
 
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