Man at filthy New Mexico compound was training kids to commit school shootings, prosecutors say

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#21
I do wonder, though, if Siraj Wahhaj had been Schlomo ben Rosenstein, and his dad been Rabbi Schlomo ben Rosenstein, former head of the American Jewish Congress and now leader of a big New York synagogue, what your take on this would be. :)
What a clever and manipulative thing to say. I would be equally interested in what your take would be on something like this if you weren't so predictably clever and manipulative.
 





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#22
What a clever and manipulative thing to say. I would be equally interested in what your take would be on something like this if you weren't so predictably clever and manipulative.
If this was a Jew instead of a Muslim, my opinion would be exactly the same. A father is grieving because his namesake son and two of his daughters are in jail, and his grandson is dead, and I feel bad for him. Something clearly went wrong in their lives.
 





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#23
If this was a Jew instead of a Muslim, my opinion would be exactly the same. A father is grieving because his namesake son and two of his daughters are in jail, and his grandson is dead, and I feel bad for him. Something clearly went wrong in their lives.
So then, since you are in such a balanced and objective zone. How do you think people should respond to the headlines of Muslim extremists training school shooters? In a climate, where there is so much division created over a topic like this, what response do you think Fox News is trying to elicit with a headline like this, and how would you encourage someone to see a different perspective since this is just such a tragic scenario according to your own assessment?

Do you think it is responsible of the media to create a headline like this if this is simply a tragic case of a broken man? Would you like religious affiliation to be recognized in headlines for all shooting innocents? For example, “Christian extremist is training school shooters.”

If there isn’t supposed to be a connection to his religious affiliation, and there isn’t a reason to make an association between the actions of this man and his religious affiliation, why do you think this is included in the headline? Would you agree that if it was any other religious affiliation, it would not be included in the headline? What do you think that means and who is the target audience that causes this distinction to be included?

Would you also agree that a situation like this highlights that the mainstream media is producing propaganda? This is what I think this example clearly shows. Whether this was a threat, MK ultra or whatever, he is still being used by the media headline to create a response that he doesn’t have a say in. If the man was broken, suffering, and probably not a real threat. Why does fox call him a Muslim extremist? Who does this benefit? You have a background in journalism. If you were responsible for writing this article, what would your headline be? How does a journalist responsibly report on something like this considering the present climate? How do you think we are being damaged by the media right now when they choose to create headlines like this?

There are so many facets to a story like this, which is why I decided to create a topic for this incident.
 





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#24
So then, since you are in such a balanced and objective zone. How do you think people should respond to the headlines of Muslim extremists training school shooters? In a climate, where there is so much division created over a topic like this, what response do you think Fox News is trying to elicit with a headline like this, and how would you encourage someone to see a different perspective since this is just such a tragic scenario according to your own assessment?

Do you think it is responsible of the media to create a headline like this if this is simply a tragic case of a broken man? Would you like religious affiliation to be recognized in headlines for all shooting innocents? For example, “Christian extremist is training school shooters.”

If there isn’t supposed to be a connection to his religious affiliation, and there isn’t a reason to make an association between the actions of this man and his religious affiliation, why do you think this is included in the headline? Would you agree that if it was any other religious affiliation, it would not be included in the headline? What do you think that means and who is the target audience that causes this distinction to be included?

Would you also agree that a situation like this highlights that the mainstream media is producing propaganda? This is what I think this example clearly shows. Whether this was a threat, MK ultra or whatever, he is still being used by the media headline to create a response that he doesn’t have a say in. If the man was broken, suffering, and probably not a real threat. Why does fox call him a Muslim extremist? Who does this benefit? You have a background in journalism. If you were responsible for writing this article, what would your headline be? How does a journalist responsibly report on something like this considering the present climate? How do you think we are being damaged by the media right now when they choose to create headlines like this?

There are so many facets to a story like this, which is why I decided to create a topic for this incident.
I would report this exactly as I have in this thread. It's definitely news that his father is who he is, and since his version of Islam is apparently informing the way he's going about things, that is legitimately part of the story as well.

One thing I have noticed in the coverage is that, as much as Fox and the NY Post and some other outlets are bullhorning that he's a Muslim, there are others that seem to be just as studiously avoiding it. Now why would they leave such a big part of the story out?

The fact is that all media outlets have an agenda, but it's clear on stories like this that it's not always the same one.
 





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#26
Now why would they leave such a big part of the story out?
Every time a white dude shoots down kids and theaters full of people why do the leave out the part that he's mostly likely a "Christian" or an atheist?

While we're at it when news channels talk about Hollywood and or celebrity parties why don't they ever state the fact that it's mostly Jewish people attending and hosting these parties where young teenage boys are paraded around as some kind of sex objects?
 





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#27
Just in case anyone has missed it the multiple other times I've said so, I condemn without reservation or qualification any violent or hateful acts committed by anyone, of any religion, in the name of God. I've yet to see any non-Christians on this board agree with that statement, so people can make of that what they will.

In the case of this guy, his actions and words are clearly an extension of his religious beliefs. Why would we pretend they are not?
 





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#28
In the case of this guy, his actions and words are clearly an extension of his religious beliefs. Why would we pretend they are not?
There's the forthcoming statement that I was expecting. This is not what you said earlier. You said earlier that your comments didn't have anything to do with labeling this as something associated with religious affiliation. You were just innocently clarifying what the article didn't confirm. You weren't trying to point out that he was Muslim because this was significant or suggesting that this was the motivation behind this.

Specifically, you described the man as, "

Siraj Wahhaj, Jr. sounds like a mess, in comparison. He was living in squalor in East Methville, New Mexico, with his sisters and eleven starving children. He wasn't training anyone. He was failing. And now he's in jail and will most likely be charged with the murder of his own handicapped son. It's all pretty tragic, and I feel bad for his dad.

Anyway, that is the story I was following. The camp was never going to produce a school shooter, and if MKUltra still exists in the way people think it does, let's give them a little more credit than this. I wasn't making any kind of statement about Muslims or drawing any undue connection to anything. I was just aware of a lot more information than your source seemed to be, and I was adding what I knew to the pile."

Would you like to revise this statement to include your additional comments about his actions are an extension of his religious beliefs? Do you think considering the circumstances of this event and the apparent mental instability of this man that is not an extension of his religious beliefs, that it is responsible for the media to include "Muslim extremist" in the headline? Who is the target audience for this headline?

Specifically, what words or actions relating to this situation are an extension of his religious beliefs?
 





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#29
"The compound was found on property that was owned by a couple, Tanya and Jason Badger, according to documents released by court officials. The Badgers told news outlets that they had tried to get authorities to help them get the group out.

“We had told them several times that you know they’re not tenants, they’re not paying this rent, they’re squatters, they’re there illegally — I don’t want them there,” Jason Badger told CNN.

It was unclear why an eviction noticed filed by Badger against Morton was dismissed by a judge in June, according to court records."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ompound/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d4e7bf4a5086

I still think there are signs of MK ultra regarding this case. Authorities should have investigated this sooner since the owners of the property seemed to have filed a complaint about them. They should have never been allowed to stay on the property to begin with.
 





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#30
@rainerann, is it so beyond reasonability that he could be a Muslim, and an extremist, and also pose very little threat to anyone but his own family? What I mean to say is that he's not part of any great Muslim terror conspiracy, and I base this on the fact that they were starving. This was not a Muslim terrorist training camp, no matter what Fox might be saying.

According to the mother of his now dead toddler son, he kidnapped the boy to perform an exorcism on him. The boy was severely disabled, suffered from seizures and could not walk or do anything for himself. His father's solution to this was to perform a "spiritual" action to drive the evil spirits out. This is most likely what killed him. Does that not seem like an extreme religious act to you?

Maybe you can explain why you feel this is unrelated to his faith, and not a bizarre and horrible extreme that he went to because of his beliefs.
 





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#31
Maybe you can explain why you feel this is unrelated to his faith, and not a bizarre and horrible extreme that he went to because of his beliefs.
Oh Thunderious if I could I would send Sasha Baron Cohen to prank you as he has pranked many of your brothers and sister pro Israeli envangelicals..

Provide the proof if you wish to keep linking Islam to the actions of deranged folks.
The onus is on you not rainner.
 





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#32
@rainerann, is it so beyond reasonability that he could be a Muslim, and an extremist, and also pose very little threat to anyone but his own family? What I mean to say is that he's not part of any great Muslim terror conspiracy, and I base this on the fact that they were starving. This was not a Muslim terrorist training camp, no matter what Fox might be saying.

According to the mother of his now dead toddler son, he kidnapped the boy to perform an exorcism on him. The boy was severely disabled, suffered from seizures and could not walk or do anything for himself. His father's solution to this was to perform a "spiritual" action to drive the evil spirits out. This is most likely what killed him. Does that not seem like an extreme religious act to you?

Maybe you can explain why you feel this is unrelated to his faith, and not a bizarre and horrible extreme that he went to because of his beliefs.
You're avoiding the question. I asked, "Do you think considering the circumstances of this event and the apparent mental instability of this man that is not an extension of his religious beliefs, that it is responsible for the media to include "Muslim extremist" in the headline? Who is the target audience for this headline?"

Answering questions like this is part of the reason for creating this thread. If you don't want to answer the question, this is fine, but that is the point. You have a guy who was illegally living on someone else's land even though an eviction notice was given. The authorities ignored this, and then when they finally addressed the situation, they release headlines about a Muslim extremist training school shooters. This man is technically American since he is the son of a New York Iman and this story actually presents the conclusion to the case of the disabled son who went missing. So there are several other ways to report on this story.

For example, an appropriate title would be "Disabled son of Georgia woman found on make shift compound".

The article could continue. "The son of a Georgia woman who was reported missing a while ago, was found on such a such a date. The child had been kidnapped by the father who appeared desperate to find a solution to his son's disability. Stress and the belief that medicine was not an efficient solution to the child's condition may have led him to consider an extreme religious position that caused him to seek exorcism for his child.

It is unclear how this led to a motivation to establish a compound that appears to have been training school shooters. We will update you with further information and insight from therapists and specialists on this subject later today."

It is just really not that hard Thunderian. You could simply answer the question already. I will answer another one of my questions by saying that I do not think that it is responsible to report on circumstances the way they did. There is nothing that says division like using identity politics to report the news.
 





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#33
@rainerann, I've already noted media agenda. From what I've seen, there are some outlets who are playing up the Muslim angle, and some who are ignoring it altogether.

Fox, etc. knows who their target audience is, and so do CNN and the others. That's not hard to fathom, is it? That is certainly why outlets are either focusing on, or ignoring, the fact that this guy is a Muslim.

I'm not sure what else you want me to say about this. When I first saw the story, my initial reaction was not the one Fox is promoting, but the one I have explained already. I won't be repeating myself.
 





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#34
Oh Thunderious if I could I would send Sasha Baron Cohen to prank you as he has pranked many of your brothers and sister pro Israeli envangelicals..

Provide the proof if you wish to keep linking Islam to the actions of deranged folks.
The onus is on you not rainner.
Are you saying this guy didn't practise some form of Islam?
 





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#35
Are you saying this guy didn't practise some form of Islam?
You screech that Judaism and all jews are not responsible for the actions of the deranged folks ( I Agree) but are so eager to link Islam to the actions of criminals. You are boring and predictable.:rolleyes:. Hypocritical stances.
 





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#36
You screech that Judaism and alll jews are not responsible for the actions of the deranged folks ( I Agree) but are so eager to link Islam to the actions of criminals. You are boring and predictable.:rolleyes:. Hypocritical stances.
Straw man about the screeching, and I didn't link him to Islam. He is a Muslim, but it's not the main part of the story, as far as I'm concerned, and I've been pretty clear about that.

What's boring is you guys making every thread about me.
 





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#37
NO what you were implying is evident for all to see,

Are you saying this guy didn't practise some form of Islam?
and I didn't link him to Islam. He is a Muslim, but it's not the main part of the story, as far as I'm concerned, and I've been pretty clear about that.
What's boring is you guys making every thread about me.
huh who made the thread about you I was just responding to your thought to rainner....
It is good for people to see your twisted ways.;)
 





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Futility

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#40
I think we lost sight on the point that this has nothing to do with MKULTRA, I mean people really believe they just put a brainwashing facility on some people's land? Or that it is just one guy and his relatives?