Light > Darkness

DavidSon

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It is quite simple. The unseen God is God the Father (1st person of the Trinity) and/ or God the Holy Spirit (3rd person of the Trinity).
Jesus, the begotten Son of God (second person of the Trinity) is God made flesh. https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-is-god.htm

(Self-proclaimed) prophet Muhammad did not see the Light. Now he is in eternal darkness, just like all Muslims will be if they never believe in the Light.
The trinity again? Man that theology is as stale as it ever was. What you said is so simple minded I had to look up the exact history of the theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

The word trinity isn't in the bible. Christ tells his disciples in Matthew 28 to go out, "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." There's no reference of the doctrine, besides a few ante-nicenes, before arguments made by the 3rd century church father Tertullian:

"He explicitly defined the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and defended his theology against "Praxeas",[31] though he noted that the majority of the believers in his day found issue with his doctrine."

As with all the conventional precepts that were instituted by pope constantine at the roman councils, there were severe opponents to the concept. This is an interesting part of the story:

"Later, at the First Council of Constantinople (381), the Nicene Creed would be expanded, known as Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, by saying that the Holy Spirit is worshiped and glorified together with the Father and the Son (συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον), suggesting that he was also consubstantial with them:"

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; (...) And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets (...). — Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed

Like I said, the churches of today nothing but reformed roman catholiscism. Their carnal minds can't see beyond the flesh, so every subtle mystery (like light and darkness) can only be understood relative to the sayings of some dim-witted theologian.

Also JoChris, you disrespect a man of God, one of the most important figures in world history, which is nonsense.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@DavidSon

"in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." There's no reference of the doctrine, besides a few ante-nicenes, before arguments made by the 3rd century church father Tertullian"

As a student of the Bible, can you honestly say that you can read it with an open heart and not get a sense of the "Mystery of the Godhead"?

Might it also be clear that there is often no need to state the obvious till the obvious becomes something people want to deny?

How many threads are out there saying "Freemasonry is a bad thing"? Some time back, before Freemasonry was less public, there was less need to address it.

In the face of early church heresies, some of the doctrines that the first believers took as axiomatic required re-stating and these became formalised in "creeds".
 
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JoChris

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The trinity again? Man that theology is as stale as it ever was. What you said is so simple minded I had to look up the exact history of the theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

The word trinity isn't in the bible. Christ tells his disciples in Matthew 28 to go out, "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." There's no reference of the doctrine, besides a few ante-nicenes, before arguments made by the 3rd century church father Tertullian:

"He explicitly defined the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and defended his theology against "Praxeas",[31] though he noted that the majority of the believers in his day found issue with his doctrine."

As with all the conventional precepts that were instituted by pope constantine at the roman councils, there were severe opponents to the concept. This is an interesting part of the story:

"Later, at the First Council of Constantinople (381), the Nicene Creed would be expanded, known as Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, by saying that the Holy Spirit is worshiped and glorified together with the Father and the Son (συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον), suggesting that he was also consubstantial with them:"

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; (...) And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets (...). — Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed

Like I said, the churches of today nothing but reformed roman catholiscism. Their carnal minds can't see beyond the flesh, so every subtle mystery (like light and darkness) can only be understood relative to the frsayings of some dim-witted theologian.

Also JoChris, you disrespect a man of God, one of the most important figures in world history, which is nonsense.
Your last point first: a man born in approximately the 6th century AD contradicted witnesses of Christ who wrote the books in 1st century AD. Muhammad contradicts the bible. He is NOT a man of the one true God. Fact. He was deluded.

There are bible verses which present the doctrine that the word Trinity was later formed by Tertullian, born in 160 AD, the ***SECOND*** century, died around 225 AD. https://www.ccel.org/ccel/tertullian

His actual writings on the Trinity here, would have been written before 210 AD going on his biography . Very early 3rd century. https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.ii.html

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD, the FOURTH century. That makes Tertullian's writings much older than people like yourself are trying to suggest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#History

Bible verses which support Trinity doctrine. https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-The-Trinity/

Christians should put truth before diplomacy.
 

DavidSon

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@DavidSon

"in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." There's no reference of the doctrine, besides a few ante-nicenes, before arguments made by the 3rd century church father Tertullian"

As a student of the Bible, can you honestly say that you can read it with an open heart and not get a sense of the "Mystery of the Godhead"?

Might it also be clear that there is often no need to state the obvious till the obvious becomes something people want to deny?

How many threads are out there saying "Freemasonry is a bad thing"? Some time back, before Freemasonry was less public, there was less need to address it.

In the face of early church heresies, some of the doctrines that the first believers took ax axiomatic required re-stating and these became formalised in "creeds".
Definately, it's a powerful phrase. I only wanted to point out that in a side discussion about seeing God, the concept (which is a personal belief from just one segment of Christianity) is a really poor argument to explain something that is impossible.

Not sure what you mean by the obvious. Are you saying it's become popular to question conventional Christian philosophy?

As for the "creeds", I'm finding myself drawn to searching out the views of other ancient Believers beside the Jewish, Pauline, and Hellenistic groups. Sorry I'm conflating this thread with the "many churches" discussion but it's a fact there are hundreds and hundreds of denominations. To paraphrase what Etagloc just said, the arrogance that our interpretation is the only supreme one truth- I find annoying.
 

Awoken2

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You're making everything objective but that is like passive escapism or something. Me killing you might be fine for some but might upset others but it's all relative lol. It's all relative.
Unless I am mistaken the poster was simply quoting from the Kybalion and not making any personal claim.

The Kybalion contains the "hidden knowledge" which Freemasonry holds as their Gospel such as the 7 Hermetic principles. It is this type of information and knowledge which explains the term occultists.

The chap only put up one quote and he was rounded on by Red and Elsbet wanting to do the semantics thing over the wording.

As much as it is difficult to stomach it is these very principles which have brought the world to the point it is today. The people in charge are occultists so they don't see bad as being bad, it's just another perspective of good.

Let's take the Georgia Guidestones as an example. Some people think the message is good and other people think the message is bad. It's the same message.

I could go on but the main point is that I don't think it was fair that the poster was jumped on just for quoting one paragraph of the Kybalion.

As you go up the Masonic order to positions of real power you cannot do so without learning the "value" of the 7 Hermetic principles. This is what we are living with today....good is bad, wrong is right, as above so below.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Unless I am mistaken the poster was simply quoting from the Kybalion and not making any personal claim.

The Kybalion contains the "hidden knowledge" which Freemasonry holds as their Gospel such as the 7 Hermetic principles. It is this type of information and knowledge which explains the term occultists.

The chap only put up one quote and he was rounded on by Red and Elsbet wanting to do the semantics thing over the wording.

As much as it is difficult to stomach it is these very principles which have brought the world to the point it is today. The people in charge are occultists so they don't see bad as being bad, it's just another perspective of good.

Let's take the Georgia Guidestones as an example. Some people think the message is good and other people think the message is bad. It's the same message.

I could go on but the main point is that I don't think it was fair that the poster was jumped on just for quoting one paragraph of the Kybalion.

As you go up the Masonic order to positions of real power you cannot do so without learning the "value" of the 7 Hermetic principles. This is what we are living with today....good is bad, wrong is right, as above so below.
I was just trying to address the rather obvious error in the thinking of the Kybalion - I don't think I was rounding on @Alanantic personally...
 

Awoken2

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I was just trying to address the rather obvious error in the thinking of the Kybalion - I don't think I was rounding on @Alanantic personally...
Would it not be more constructive to question why then is it that the most powerful men in the world are all being spellbound by a book which has a dangerously skewed way of looking at things? Would this not have huge repurcussions for us all?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Would it not be more constructive to question why then is it that the most powerful men in the world are all being spellbound by a book which has a dangerously skewed way of looking at things? Would this not have huge repurcussions for us all?
With respect, I hear a lot from you about what you are against. Would you like to share what you are for? What would represent "light" to you?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Why did you just ignore my point and try and switch focus to my personal beliefs?
Because your point goes to a question for wider study - have we got reason to believe the Bible is true? I could tell you a good many reasons why I believe it to be so, and why Jesus himself IS the "Light of the World". At present you appear to reject this, but rather than slug out the issue above (which seems to be the crux of how we interpret things differently) I wanted to ask you if you had a perspective (even a tentative one) that had anything to offer you or others by way of an alternative "light".
 

Damien50

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Unless I am mistaken the poster was simply quoting from the Kybalion and not making any personal claim.

The Kybalion contains the "hidden knowledge" which Freemasonry holds as their Gospel such as the 7 Hermetic principles. It is this type of information and knowledge which explains the term occultists.

The chap only put up one quote and he was rounded on by Red and Elsbet wanting to do the semantics thing over the wording.

As much as it is difficult to stomach it is these very principles which have brought the world to the point it is today. The people in charge are occultists so they don't see bad as being bad, it's just another perspective of good.

Let's take the Georgia Guidestones as an example. Some people think the message is good and other people think the message is bad. It's the same message.

I could go on but the main point is that I don't think it was fair that the poster was jumped on just for quoting one paragraph of the Kybalion.

As you go up the Masonic order to positions of real power you cannot do so without learning the "value" of the 7 Hermetic principles. This is what we are living with today....good is bad, wrong is right, as above so below.
Read what I quoted from him. It wasn't about the quote but rather his endorsing of it.
 
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"Everything is dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites;
like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in
degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be
reconciled." — The Kybalion.
"Repent or perish!" -- The Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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You know nothing! You do not even believe in Christ.
In a parallel universe, a person might not believe in apples, and become so convinced by his reading on their impossibility that he comes to think that anyone claiming to have ate one is just pretending. Such a line would simply not work, even on a little child who might look on with curiosity as the "apple denier" tried to talk them out of their lunch.

If you have been born again, you will have had an encounter with God no less real. It must be frustrating, weary, and singularly unrewarding work to try to talk Christians out of Christ!
 
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