LGBTQ activists block Tel Aviv Pride March: 'There is no pride in occupation'

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#41
"As long as you stay away from ultra religious areas you won’t face persecution."
The ultra-religious are not he only people with these attitudes, and its prevalent in non-orthodox controlled areas as well. Its not the lgbt oasis you are presenting it to be.
It is compared to their neighbors. So, show me where gays are being persecuted in Israel? I’ve never presented an lgbt oasis, that doesn’t exist, but there are places that are much safer and more accepting than others. Do you deny this?
 





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#42
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Thanks DR. I was referring to people being falsely accused of public acts tho.
There are serious rules for this. The rules are being misapplied in this day and age. The last time we had Islamic rule was 100 years ago.

I’m not on a witch hunt for Muslims and their beliefs.
No worries not feeling hunted.
We do not hide our beliefs.

I just believe gays would have an easier life in Israel than any Islamic society.
Not surprised if true although I agree with TT there are rules against this in Judaism.
 





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#43
"As long as you stay away from ultra religious areas you won’t face persecution."
The ultra-religious are not he only people with these attitudes, and its prevalent in non-orthodox controlled areas as well. Its not the lgbt oasis you are presenting it to be.
One question. Have you ever been there?
 





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#44
Is it necessary? They could easily just accuse them of something if they suspect them of it. It’s just like when blacks use to get lynched for things they didn’t even do.
If they accuse them there needs to be 4 trusthworthy witnesses to have witnessed the act. Also, evidence from within homes is not valid because under Islamic law spying is illegal. The only way anyone could be accused of sodomy if it's done outside the home and in a public place and there has to be 4 witnesses who personally witnessed it.

To this date I don't know of one case within the Islamic world where someone was punished for being a homosexual. If you know of such a case I would love to see it. It can be from any Islamic country or time period.
 





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#45
If they accuse them there needs to be 4 trusthworthy witnesses to have witnessed the act. Also, evidence from within homes is not valid because under Islamic law spying is illegal. The only way anyone could be accused of sodomy if it's done outside the home and in a public place and there has to be 4 witnesses who personally witnessed it.

To this date I don't know of one case within the Islamic world where someone was punished for being a homosexual. If you know of such a case I would love to see it. It can be from any Islamic country or time period.
A LGBT person living in an Islamic society is the only one who could really answer that best but there are examples. You have to acknowledge that lgbt people are not a protected group. They’re disowned from their families so violence against them goes unreported and doesn’t get investigated. It’s the same as sex workers here, displaced people are easy targets for violence. If people get imprisoned on false allegations to punish them for being gay then I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they would murdered for it too. That’s why I compared it to lynching. Prejudice corrupts the law all the time. I don’t really see the difference between them being killed for being a homosexual and doing what gay people do? It’s just dog whistle politics really. Gay people have been hung and beheaded in Islamic countries. Are these people really having sex in public in countries they know they’d get murdered for it if caught? That’s crazy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/militia-lgbt-iraq-report-gay-lesbian-persecution
“Past and present killing sprees against LGBT Iraqis have taken place with total impunity,” it said. “No one has been held accountable for the murders, and the previous government rejected calls to even investigate violence based on actual or perceived sexual and gender non-conformity.”

On 15 May this year, Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq – the most powerful Iranian backed militia group in Iraq – displayed wanted posters in Baghdad of 23 men it said were gay and another man accused of having long hair. One month later, two allegedly gay youths, aged between 15 and 17, were attacked and beheaded with their heads thrown in a rubbish bin, said a witness to the attack. A subsequent attack on a Baghdad brothel, thought to have been carried out by the same militia, killed about 34 people, most of them women.
 





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#46
A LGBT person living in an Islamic society is the only one who could really answer that best but there are examples. You have to acknowledge that lgbt people are not a protected group. They’re disowned from their families so violence against them goes unreported and don’t get investigated. It’s the same as sex workers here, displaced people are easy targets for violence. If people get imprisoned on false allegations to punish them for being gay then I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they would murdered for it too. That’s why I compared it to lynching. Prejudice corrupts the law all the time. I don’t really see the difference between them being killed for being a homosexual and doing what gay people do? It’s just dog whistle politics really. Gay people have been hung and beheaded in Islamic countries. Are these people really having sex in public in countries they know they’d get murdered for it if caught? That’s crazy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/militia-lgbt-iraq-report-gay-lesbian-persecution
I'll reply to this tomorrow. Peace be upon you.
 





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#48
If they accuse them there needs to be 4 trusthworthy witnesses to have witnessed the act. Also, evidence from within homes is not valid because under Islamic law spying is illegal. The only way anyone could be accused of sodomy if it's done outside the home and in a public place and there has to be 4 witnesses who personally witnessed it.

To this date I don't know of one case within the Islamic world where someone was punished for being a homosexual. If you know of such a case I would love to see it. It can be from any Islamic country or time period.
From 2016 HERE
 





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#49
Romans 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


ramadan quiz night

Q: Which penalty was it
a) the annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrah
b) aids
c) the holocoast
d) james corden

?
 





mecca

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#50
In Gaza and other Islamic regimes, homosexuals are executed. It's called murder and it's a form of persecution.
When did I say anything about the way gays are treated in other places? That in no way negates Israel's propaganda technique of exploiting the gay rights movement in order to appear progressive. Israel is a fascist state and holding/allowing gay parades doesn't excuse them of their actions against Palestinians.
 





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#51
When did I say anything about the way gays are treated in other places? That in no way negates Israel's propaganda technique of exploiting the gay rights movement in order to appear progressive. Israel is a fascist state and holding/allowing gay parades doesn't excuse them of their actions against Palestinians.
If you can connect gay rights and the plight of the Palestinians then I certainly can as well!
 





mecca

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#54
another man accused of having long hair
Wtf, that's not grounds to murder someone.
One month later, two allegedly gay youths, aged between 15 and 17, were attacked and beheaded with their heads thrown in a rubbish bin, said a witness to the attack. A subsequent attack on a Baghdad brothel, thought to have been carried out by the same militia, killed about 34 people, most of them women.
Wow, they were children.
 





mecca

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#55
What's it about then, if not gay rights in Israel? The title is literally about a pride march in Tel Aviv.
It's about Israel using gay rights as a PR stunt to appear like they care about minority rights while simultaneously denying and violating Palestinian rights (in the most horrible ways).
 





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#56
It's about Israel using gay rights as a PR stunt to appear like they care about minority rights while simultaneously denying and violating Palestinian rights (in the most horrible ways).
But they're not doing that, mecca. Gaza would have open borders and all the prosperity they wanted if they would stop attacking Israel. Don't mistake Israel's defense of it's own people as an attack on the Palestinians.

The accusation of pinkwashing is just another way to smear Israel. I'm sorry to see you fall for it.
 





mecca

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#57
Lmao, simply looking at their actions is not smearing them. They are a fascist state that is literally murdering and imprisoning Palestinians and stealing Palestinian lands while simultaneously claiming to be progressive and care about minorities.
 





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#58
They are a fascist state that is literally murdering and imprisoning Palestinians and stealing Palestinian lands while simultaneously claiming to be progressive and care about minorities.
That's a smear, because Israel is not doing that.
 





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#60
Let's hope it isn't that perverse-- Sodom and Gomorrah's offenses went well beyond homosexuality. I don't think they were accused of "pinkwashing" or faking it, either.
If you read the story in Genesis, Lot even tells them to take his daughters and do whatever they want to them......
but 'just dont do it to men'
which shows he was even willing to tolerate them sodomising his daughters but it was homosexuality that bothered him more than anything.

Romans 1 explains the process of how a society 'turns' that way.
It is just like how in islam you have 3 states of mind. Islam, hawa and jahilliya ie purity, pasion and ignorance.
This is in hinduism as the 3 gunas, sattva, rajas and tamas.

So basically 'forgetting God' they left the state of purity, fell into 'passion'...but passion combined with ignorance was the next step. Homosexuality is just one of many other projections of that state.
In hinduism, an entire society can enter into either of these states collectively...ie posess certain types of qualities/defects.

Here's what they say about tamas/darkness. Btw this quote is from the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna speaks on the matter...Krishna is a Jesus like figure in their religion. This is a relatively long read but only two small parts of the book.

Purity, Passion and Ignorance are the Qualities which the Law of nature bringeth forth.
They fetter the free Spirit in all beings.
O Sinless One! Of these, Purity, being luminous, strong and invulnerable, binds one by its
yearning for happiness and illumination.
Passion, engendered by thirst for pleasure and attachment, binds the soul through its
fondness for activity.
But Ignorance, the product of darkness, stupefies the senses in all embodied beings,
binding them by chains of folly, indolence and lethargy.
Purity brings happiness, Passion commotion, and Ignorance, which obscures wisdom,
leads to a life of failure.
O Prince! Purity prevails when Passion and Ignorance are overcome; Passion, when Purity
and Ignorance are overcome; and Ignorance when it overcomes Purity and Passion.
When the light of knowledge gleams forth from all the gates of the body, then be sure that
Purity prevails.
O best of Indians! Avarice, the impulse to act and the beginning of action itself are all due
to the dominance of Passion.
Darkness, stagnation, folly and infatuationare the result of the dominance of Ignorance,
O joy of the Kuru-clan!
When Purity prevails, the soul on quitting the body passes on to the pure regions where
live those who know the Highest.
When Passion prevails, the soul is reborn among those who love activity; when Ignorance
rules, it enters the wombs of the ignorant.
They say the fruit of a meritorious action is spotless and full of purity; the outcome of
Passion is misery, and of Ignorance darkness.
Purity engenders Wisdom, Passion avarice, and Ignorance folly, infatuation and darkness
When Purity is in the ascendant, the man evolves; when Passion, he neither evolves nor
degenerates; when Ignorance, he is lost.
As soon as man understands that it is only the Qualities which act and nothing else, and
perceives That which is beyond, he attains My divine nature.

When the soul transcends the Qualities, which are the real cause of physical existence,
then, freed from birth and death, from old age and misery, he quaffs the nectar of
immortality.

Arjuna asked: My Lord! By what signs can he who has transcended the Qualities be
recognized? How does he act? How does he live beyond them?
Lord Shri Krishna replied: O Prince! He who shuns not the Quality which is present, and
longs not for that which is absent;
He who maintains an attitude of indifference, who is not disturbed by the Qualities, who
realises that it is only they who act, and remains calm;
Who accepts pain and pleasure as it comes, is centred in his Self, to whom a piece of clay
or stone or gold are the same, who neither likes nor dislikes, who is steadfast, indifferent
alike to praise or censure;
Who looks equally upon honour and dishonour, loves friends and foes alike, abandons all
initiative, such is he who transcends the Qualities.
And he who serves Me and only Me, with unfaltering devotion, shall overcome the
Qualities, and become One with the Eternal.
For I am the Home of the Spirit, the continual Source of immortality, of eternal
Righteousness and of infinite Joy.”


.........................................................................................................................

The godless do not know how to act or how to renounce. They have neither purity nor
truth. They do not understand the right principles of conduct.
They say the universe is an accident with no purpose and no God. Life is created by sexual
union, a product of lust and nothing else.
Thinking thus, these degraded souls, these enemies of mankind – whose intelligence is
negligible and whose deeds are monstrous – come into the world only to destroy.
Giving themselves up to insatiable passions, hypocritical, self-sufficient and arrogant,
cherishing false conception founded on delusion, they work only to carry out their own
unholy purposes.
Poring anxiously over evil resolutions, which only end in death; seeking only the
gratification of desire as the highest goal; seeing nothing beyond;
Caught in the toils of a hundred vain hopes, the slaves of passion and wrath, they
accumulate hoards of unjust wealth, only to pander to their sensual desire.
This I have gained today; tomorrow I will gratify another desire; this wealth is mine now,
the rest shall be mine ere long;
I have slain one enemy, I will slay the others also; I am worthy to enjoy, I am the
Almighty, I am perfect, powerful and happy;
I am rich, I am well-bred; who is there to compare with me? I will sacrifice, I will give,
I will pay – and I will enjoy. Thus blinded by Ignorance,
Perplexed by discordant thoughts, entangled in the snares of desire, infatuated by passion,
they sink into the horrors of hell. Self-conceited, stubborn, rich, proud and insolent, they make a display of their patronage,
disregarding the rules of decency.
Puffed up by power and inordinate conceit, swayed by lust and wrath, these wicked
people hate Me Who am within them, as I am within all.
Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a
continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.
So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me,
O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.
The gates of hell are three: lust, wrath and avarice. They destroy the Self. Avoid them.
These are the gates which lead to darkness; if a man avoid them he will ensure his own
welfare, and in the end will attain his liberation.
But he who neglects the commands of the scriptures, and follows the promptings of
passion, he does not attain perfection, happiness or the final goal.
Therefore whenever there is doubt whether thou shouldst do a thing or not, let the
scriptures guide thy conduct. In the light of the scriptures shouldst thou labour the whole
of thy life.”
Btw, if you thought of this as the Logos speaking and instead of krishna these were the words of Jesus, it wouldn't be wrong to me, it's the 'universal consciousness' speaking.


I do not expect you to agree with the sentence above but I would hope one day more christians 'see the bigger picture' in this...and one of the things I particularly liked about what Paul said in Romans 1 was how it matched (on a small level) what i've just quoted.
Even despite christianity or judaism not having this 3 guna/quality system outlined specifically, Paul mentioned them.

ie

PURITY
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


PASSION
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.


DARKNESS
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.