Let's get something straight

[TMT]

Matthew 12 36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Romans 4 11-12"It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.” 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God."


Better begin practising knee bends.

The disciples didn't record the message right. And everything Paul wrote may as well be discounted as it so far from the truth.

 

[TokiEl]

Please read my two posts on the matrix.

Hi i read the short version and must say you have a way with words.

But when you believe what is written in the Bible then you are no longer bound by the matrix or illusion which blinds the unbelievers.

John 8 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

[TokiEl]

The disciples didn't record the message right. And everything Paul wrote may as well be discounted as it so far from the truth.

Who says that the disciples didn't record the message right and that everything Paul wrote may as well be discounted ?

Where did you hear this ?

 

[TMT]

Who says that the disciples didn't record the message right and that everything Paul wrote may as well be discounted ?

Where did you hear this ?

You only have to look and be ready for what you see, put aside all the conditioning and dogma and it will be come apparent. Meditate on the words themselves. Good luck.

 

[TokiEl]

If the disciples were saying that awful stuff about women that I spoke of in the longer thread, it's obvious they didn't get it right IMO.

You know women's liberation movement was sponsored by the Rockefeller Foundation ?

Employ and tax both parents so big gov can raise the children in propaganda workshops.

 

[TokiEl]

You only have to look and be ready for what you see, put aside all the conditioning and dogma and it will be come apparent. Meditate on the words themselves. Good luck.

Trust me the Bible is true. You just got to trust me on this. OK ?

 

[TMT]

Trust me the Bible is true. You just got to trust me on this. OK ?

No,sir.

 

[TokiEl]

Yes, I know feminism was sponsored by the CIA to break up the family unit, tax more people, and so on. I don't agree with it in that regard.

But that's different to a disciple thinking he can say "Shut the fuck up, woman! You must submit to me!" The feminist movement isn't actually the same as true equality, neither is what the disciples said. True equality is a goal we can only strive for right now, but one we shall achieve.

Look the God given role of woman was to be companion helper and mother.

Two equal heads of the house is a recipe for quarrel and conflict.

 

[TokiEl]

I generally believe women are happy to submit to respectful authority and that's cool...

But these passages...

(Shut the fuck up, woman!):
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”

(You must submit to me!):
1 Timothy 2:11-12: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”

... These are not respectful authority and these do not come from God or Jesus. "I do not permit a woman to teach..." - I say to that speaker - "who the f--- are you?" [hey, I'm trying!] To give an example, I've learnt so much about conspiracies and spirituality from my aunt. Whoever said these things is definitely NOT a true follower of Christ's teachings....Jesus would be spinning in his tomb, if he was still there...

This was Paul's will for the churches he started and so we must respect that.

The role of women today is more like men but just 100 years ago women was subservient to men as they had been for thousands of years.

 

[TokiEl]

Paul is not Jesus, therefore this is not Christianity. Personally, I don't respect a man who comes out with this nonsense (I mean Paul, not you). I am reminded of an incident I had with the "Reverend" David <last name withheld> in HMP Oakwood when he told me not to say "bollocks", quoting something from Romans about how an unclean word shouldn't come out of my mouth (or something), yet he turned out to be one of the biggest insincere hypocrites who failed to follow the teachings of Christ that I've ever met.

Women may have been subservient to men for thousands of years but I still maintain this isn't the way things should be, or the way it shall be in the future.

You obviously have your opinions, and I have mine, and they don't match up, so how about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that? I think we've both made our points to each other.

Today there is a gov push to extinguish the differences between men and women which began with the women's liberation movement. So the old roles of man and woman have been progressed to the point that those words would soon vanish from the vocabulary.

Is this a good thing ? That men can be women and women can be men and soon both men and women will be given a new neutral name.

It's a big social experiment for sure but what do God think about it ?

 

[TonyVanDam]

I see/hear many people attacking the religion that's why. Some express great disdain toward it, without knowing much about it they make a judgment call.

Judaism & Islam gets attack all the time as well. It's not just Christianity.

 

[mecca]

Whoever said these things is definitely NOT a true follower of Christ's teachings....Jesus would be spinning in his tomb, if he was still there...

True, the real God isn't sexist.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

True, the real God isn't sexist.

Question: "Does a wife have to submit to her husband?"

Answer: Submission is an important issue in relation to marriage. Here is the plain biblical command: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything” (Ephesians 5:22–24).

Even before sin entered the world, there was still the principle of the headship of the husband (1 Timothy 2:13). Adam was created first, and Eve was created to be a "helper" for Adam (Genesis 2:18–20). God has established several types of authority in the world: governments to enforce justice in society and provide protection; pastors to lead and feed the sheep of God; husbands to love and nurture their wives; and fathers to admonish their children. In each case, submission is required: citizen to government, flock to shepherd, wife to husband, child to father.

The Greek word translated “submit,” hupotasso, is the continuing form of the verb. This means that submitting to God, the government, a pastor, or a husband is not a one-time act. It is a continual attitude, which becomes a pattern of behavior.

First, of course, we are responsible to submit to God, which is the only way we can truly obey Him (James 1:21; 4:7). And each Christian should live in humble, ready submission to others (Ephesians 5:21). In regards to submission within the family unit, 1 Corinthians 11:2–3, says that the husband is to submit to Christ (as Christ did to God the Father) and the wife is to submit to her husband.

There is much misunderstanding in our world today about the roles of husband and wife within a marriage. Even when the biblical roles are properly understood, many choose to reject them in favor of a supposed “emancipation” of women, with the result that the family unit is torn apart. It’s no surprise that the world rejects God’s design, but God’s people should be joyfully celebrating that design.

Submit is not a bad word. Submission is not a reflection of inferiority or lesser worth. Christ constantly submitted Himself to the will of the Father (Luke 22:42; John 5:30), without giving up an iota of His worth.

To counter the world’s misinformation concerning a wife’s submission to her husband, we should carefully note the following in Ephesians 5:22–24: 1) A wife is to submit to one man (her husband), not to every man. The rule to submit does not extend to a woman’s place in society at large. 2) A wife is to willingly submit to her husband in personal obedience to the Lord Jesus. She submits to her husband because she loves Jesus. 3) The example of a wife’s submission is that of the church to Christ. 4) There is nothing said of the wife’s abilities, talents, or worth; the fact that she submits to her own husband does not imply that she is inferior or less worthy in any way. Also notice that there are no qualifiers to the command to submit, except “in everything.” So, the husband does not have to pass an aptitude test or an intelligence test before his wife submits. It may be a fact that she is better qualified than he to lead in many ways, but she chooses to follow the Lord’s instruction by submitting to her husband’s leadership. In so doing, a godly wife can even win her unbelieving husband to the Lord “without words” simply by her holy behavior (1 Peter 3:1).

Submission should be a natural response to loving leadership. When a husband loves his wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25—33), then submission is a natural response from a wife to her husband. But, regardless of the husband’s love or lack thereof, the wife is commanded to submit “as to the Lord” (verse 22). This means that her obedience to God—her acceptance of His plan—will result in her submission to her husband. The “as to the Lord” comparison also reminds the wife that there is a higher authority to whom she is responsible. Thus, she is under no obligation to disobey civil law or God’s law in the name of “submission” to her husband. She submits in things that are right and lawful and God-honoring. Of course, she does not “submit” to abuse—that is not right or lawful or God-honoring. To try to use the principle of “submission” to justify abuse is to twist Scripture and promote evil.

The submission of the wife to the husband in Ephesians 5 does not allow the husband to be selfish or domineering. His command is to love (verse 25), and he is responsible before God to fulfill that command. The husband must exercise his authority wisely, graciously, and in the fear of the God to whom he must give an account.

When a wife is loved by her husband as the church is loved by Christ, submission is not difficult. Ephesians 5:24 says, “Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” In a marriage, submission is a position of giving honor and respect to the husband (see Ephesians 5:33) and completing what he is lacking in. It is God’s wise plan for how the family should function.

Commentator Matthew Henry wrote, “The woman was made out of Adam’s side. She was not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.” The immediate context of the commands to the husband and wife in Ephesians 5:19–33 involves the filling of the Spirit. Spirit-filled believers are to be worshipful (5:19), thankful (5:20), and submissive (5:21). Paul then follows this line of thought on Spirit-filled living and applies it to wives in verses 22–24. A wife should submit to her husband, not because women are inferior (the Bible never teaches that), but because that is how God designed the marital relationship to function.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/wives-submit.html

 

[TMT]

Question: "Does a wife have to submit to her husband?"

Answer: Submission is an important issue in relation to marriage. Here is the plain biblical command: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything” (Ephesians 5:22–24).

Even before sin entered the world, there was still the principle of the headship of the husband (1 Timothy 2:13). Adam was created first, and Eve was created to be a "helper" for Adam (Genesis 2:18–20). God has established several types of authority in the world: governments to enforce justice in society and provide protection; pastors to lead and feed the sheep of God; husbands to love and nurture their wives; and fathers to admonish their children. In each case, submission is required: citizen to government, flock to shepherd, wife to husband, child to father.

The Greek word translated “submit,” hupotasso, is the continuing form of the verb. This means that submitting to God, the government, a pastor, or a husband is not a one-time act. It is a continual attitude, which becomes a pattern of behavior.

First, of course, we are responsible to submit to God, which is the only way we can truly obey Him (James 1:21; 4:7). And each Christian should live in humble, ready submission to others (Ephesians 5:21). In regards to submission within the family unit, 1 Corinthians 11:2–3, says that the husband is to submit to Christ (as Christ did to God the Father) and the wife is to submit to her husband.

There is much misunderstanding in our world today about the roles of husband and wife within a marriage. Even when the biblical roles are properly understood, many choose to reject them in favor of a supposed “emancipation” of women, with the result that the family unit is torn apart. It’s no surprise that the world rejects God’s design, but God’s people should be joyfully celebrating that design.

Submit is not a bad word. Submission is not a reflection of inferiority or lesser worth. Christ constantly submitted Himself to the will of the Father (Luke 22:42; John 5:30), without giving up an iota of His worth.

To counter the world’s misinformation concerning a wife’s submission to her husband, we should carefully note the following in Ephesians 5:22–24: 1) A wife is to submit to one man (her husband), not to every man. The rule to submit does not extend to a woman’s place in society at large. 2) A wife is to willingly submit to her husband in personal obedience to the Lord Jesus. She submits to her husband because she loves Jesus. 3) The example of a wife’s submission is that of the church to Christ. 4) There is nothing said of the wife’s abilities, talents, or worth; the fact that she submits to her own husband does not imply that she is inferior or less worthy in any way. Also notice that there are no qualifiers to the command to submit, except “in everything.” So, the husband does not have to pass an aptitude test or an intelligence test before his wife submits. It may be a fact that she is better qualified than he to lead in many ways, but she chooses to follow the Lord’s instruction by submitting to her husband’s leadership. In so doing, a godly wife can even win her unbelieving husband to the Lord “without words” simply by her holy behavior (1 Peter 3:1).

Submission should be a natural response to loving leadership. When a husband loves his wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25—33), then submission is a natural response from a wife to her husband. But, regardless of the husband’s love or lack thereof, the wife is commanded to submit “as to the Lord” (verse 22). This means that her obedience to God—her acceptance of His plan—will result in her submission to her husband. The “as to the Lord” comparison also reminds the wife that there is a higher authority to whom she is responsible. Thus, she is under no obligation to disobey civil law or God’s law in the name of “submission” to her husband. She submits in things that are right and lawful and God-honoring. Of course, she does not “submit” to abuse—that is not right or lawful or God-honoring. To try to use the principle of “submission” to justify abuse is to twist Scripture and promote evil.

The submission of the wife to the husband in Ephesians 5 does not allow the husband to be selfish or domineering. His command is to love (verse 25), and he is responsible before God to fulfill that command. The husband must exercise his authority wisely, graciously, and in the fear of the God to whom he must give an account.

When a wife is loved by her husband as the church is loved by Christ, submission is not difficult. Ephesians 5:24 says, “Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” In a marriage, submission is a position of giving honor and respect to the husband (see Ephesians 5:33) and completing what he is lacking in. It is God’s wise plan for how the family should function.

Commentator Matthew Henry wrote, “The woman was made out of Adam’s side. She was not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.” The immediate context of the commands to the husband and wife in Ephesians 5:19–33 involves the filling of the Spirit. Spirit-filled believers are to be worshipful (5:19), thankful (5:20), and submissive (5:21). Paul then follows this line of thought on Spirit-filled living and applies it to wives in verses 22–24. A wife should submit to her husband, not because women are inferior (the Bible never teaches that), but because that is how God designed the marital relationship to function.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/wives-submit.html

That's a lot of work. It'd be easier to tie her up and put her in a mask if you need to feel powerful.

 

[mecca]

The husband must exercise his authority

Husbands shouldn't have authority over their wives. Both people are human beings deserving of the same level of respect, no one should be reduced to a subordinate role of order following. Either both "submit" to God, or they don't... but man is never worthy of worship or submission. Humans have no right to be inherently above other humans in authority or any other position. Men are not more fit to be rulers, women are not made to be "companions" or "helpers". Both men and women are complete human beings and neither should be reduced to a lesser role of simply helping someone else to exercise their true humanity. Both people have their own goals and both should help each other to reach them.

Claiming that husbands have authority over their wives but wives don't have authority over their husbands is the same as claiming that women are inferior and unequal. Women are not men's property and there should be no expectation of submission to authority within a marriage. A marriage is supposed to be an intimate and loving relationship not a dictatorship or a government.

God has established several types of authority in the world: governments to enforce justice in society and provide protection

God didn't create any of our corrupt governments. Governments are a human invention. Divine right has never been a real thing, it's a trick to give people power.

fathers to admonish their children

So a father's only role regarding his children is reprimanding them? Lol. I'd say fathers should love and care for their children first, a child should not see their own father as stern and strict, they should have a positive relationship. Both the mom and dad can reprimand when appropriate.

In each case, submission is required

Submission isn't required for a good marriage, in fact inequality can destroy a marriage. Either both the husband and wife "submit" to each other or the woman will be held in an inferior position.

Even when the biblical roles are properly understood, many choose to reject them in favor of a supposed “emancipation” of women, with the result that the family unit is torn apart.

Families are broken up by infidelity, money problems, lack of communication, basic incompatibility... sexism also ruins many lives and relationships... but the removal of sexist dynamics will not and can not have a negative effect on a marriage or a family. Women's equality, autonomy, and freedom cannot "tear apart the family unit". It can only allow a relationship to flourish since it would actually be based on love and not submission and unbalanced power dynamics. When two people start a relationship and they are of equal status and they love and respect each other enough as human beings to make sure that nether one dominates over the other one, then that is a healthy relationship. If there is an expectation of submission, if the man holds authority over the woman and the woman becomes dependent on the man, then they can never truly love each other and their relationship will not be healthy. How can you love someone that you don't respect enough to treat as your equal?

The rule to submit does not extend to a woman’s place in society at large.

The idea of a woman having to submit to a man's authority is what creates sexism in society at large. It extends from intimate relationships outward. If you can't even treat your family equally then the rest of society won't be equal.

 

[Karlysymon]

Question: "Does a wife have to submit to her husband?"

Answer: Submission is an important issue in relation to marriage. Here is the plain biblical command: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything” (Ephesians 5:22–24).

Even before sin entered the world, there was still the principle of the headship of the husband (1 Timothy 2:13). Adam was created first, and Eve was created to be a "helper" for Adam (Genesis 2:18–20). God has established several types of authority in the world: governments to enforce justice in society and provide protection; pastors to lead and feed the sheep of God; husbands to love and nurture their wives; and fathers to admonish their children. In each case, submission is required: citizen to government, flock to shepherd, wife to husband, child to father.

The Greek word translated “submit,” hupotasso, is the continuing form of the verb. This means that submitting to God, the government, a pastor, or a husband is not a one-time act. It is a continual attitude, which becomes a pattern of behavior.

First, of course, we are responsible to submit to God, which is the only way we can truly obey Him (James 1:21; 4:7). And each Christian should live in humble, ready submission to others (Ephesians 5:21). In regards to submission within the family unit, 1 Corinthians 11:2–3, says that the husband is to submit to Christ (as Christ did to God the Father) and the wife is to submit to her husband.

There is much misunderstanding in our world today about the roles of husband and wife within a marriage. Even when the biblical roles are properly understood, many choose to reject them in favor of a supposed “emancipation” of women, with the result that the family unit is torn apart. It’s no surprise that the world rejects God’s design, but God’s people should be joyfully celebrating that design.

Submit is not a bad word. Submission is not a reflection of inferiority or lesser worth. Christ constantly submitted Himself to the will of the Father (Luke 22:42; John 5:30), without giving up an iota of His worth.

To counter the world’s misinformation concerning a wife’s submission to her husband, we should carefully note the following in Ephesians 5:22–24: 1) A wife is to submit to one man (her husband), not to every man. The rule to submit does not extend to a woman’s place in society at large. 2) A wife is to willingly submit to her husband in personal obedience to the Lord Jesus. She submits to her husband because she loves Jesus. 3) The example of a wife’s submission is that of the church to Christ. 4) There is nothing said of the wife’s abilities, talents, or worth; the fact that she submits to her own husband does not imply that she is inferior or less worthy in any way. Also notice that there are no qualifiers to the command to submit, except “in everything.” So, the husband does not have to pass an aptitude test or an intelligence test before his wife submits. It may be a fact that she is better qualified than he to lead in many ways, but she chooses to follow the Lord’s instruction by submitting to her husband’s leadership. In so doing, a godly wife can even win her unbelieving husband to the Lord “without words” simply by her holy behavior (1 Peter 3:1).

Submission should be a natural response to loving leadership. When a husband loves his wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25—33), then submission is a natural response from a wife to her husband. But, regardless of the husband’s love or lack thereof, the wife is commanded to submit “as to the Lord” (verse 22). This means that her obedience to God—her acceptance of His plan—will result in her submission to her husband. The “as to the Lord” comparison also reminds the wife that there is a higher authority to whom she is responsible. Thus, she is under no obligation to disobey civil law or God’s law in the name of “submission” to her husband. She submits in things that are right and lawful and God-honoring. Of course, she does not “submit” to abuse—that is not right or lawful or God-honoring. To try to use the principle of “submission” to justify abuse is to twist Scripture and promote evil.

The submission of the wife to the husband in Ephesians 5 does not allow the husband to be selfish or domineering. His command is to love (verse 25), and he is responsible before God to fulfill that command. The husband must exercise his authority wisely, graciously, and in the fear of the God to whom he must give an account.

When a wife is loved by her husband as the church is loved by Christ, submission is not difficult. Ephesians 5:24 says, “Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” In a marriage, submission is a position of giving honor and respect to the husband (see Ephesians 5:33) and completing what he is lacking in. It is God’s wise plan for how the family should function.

Commentator Matthew Henry wrote, “The woman was made out of Adam’s side. She was not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.” The immediate context of the commands to the husband and wife in Ephesians 5:19–33 involves the filling of the Spirit. Spirit-filled believers are to be worshipful (5:19), thankful (h5:20), and submissive (5:21). Paul then follows this line of thought on Spirit-filled living and applies it to wives in verses 22–24. A wife should submit to her husband, not because women are inferior (the Bible never teaches that), but because that is how God designed the marital relationship to function.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/wives-submit.html

I decided to examine the "Submission question" because its ALWAYS taught with a bias. The emphasis, as usual, is wives must submit but i found that submission is required from both partners. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Now, how exactly is he to love that way without submission? Its simply impossible. The Cross, itself, a symbol of self-sacrificial love demanded submission.
Everything else took a backseat and the wants and needs of fallen Man were prioritized. You simply cannot love (iam not talking about romance), whether man or woman, without submitting as @mecca stated.
Isn't a wife supposed to love self-sacrificially even though Paul doesn't explicitly say it? Christ spent a great deal of time
emphasising servanthood (a leader btw), what happened at the last supper, for example. But its rarely taught that way.
God is Love (1 John 4:16) and ....the law of life for earth and heaven is the law of
self-renouncing love. That love which “seeketh not her own” has its source in the heart of God and is manifested in Jesus, the meek and lowly One.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I decided to examine the "Submission question" because its ALWAYS taught with a bias. The emphasis, as usual, is wives must submit but i found that submission is required from both partners. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Now, how exactly is he to love that way without submission? Its simply impossible. The Cross, itself, a symbol of self-sacrificial love demanded submission.
Everything else took a backseat and the wants and needs of fallen Man were prioritized. You simply cannot love (iam not talking about romance), whether man or woman, without submitting as @mecca stated.
Isn't a wife supposed to love self-sacrificially even though Paul doesn't explicitly say it? Christ spent a great deal of time
emphasising servanthood (a leader btw), what happened at the last supper, for example. But its rarely taught that way.
God is Love (1 John 4:16) and ....the law of life for earth and heaven is the law of
self-renouncing love. That love which “seeketh not her own” has its source in the heart of God and is manifested in Jesus, the meek and lowly One.

I wanted to reply along the same lines myself! You put it better than I could!!!

The biblical pattern was of relationship dynamics within a Christian family.

We have:

• Wives submitting to husband in the Lord
• Husband's loving their wives as Christ lives the Church
• Children honouring their parents
• Parents not exasperating their children

This kind of love is fraught with risk and flies in the face of our human inclination to "look after number one".

For those when have never encountered Jesus in a personal way, it makes as much common sense as steering into a skid in icy weather!

A healthy and functional dynamic here rests on each member upholding their part of the "deal" and leaving the Lord to guide the other members in his ways. So - a husband (like me) should focus on loving my wife like Jesus loves me, and not exasperating my kids.

As I grow in my knowledge of God, doing this becomes an act of gratitude an service to the one who laid his life down for me.

It is not for me to gripe that I am getting a raw deal some days, but to live the way my Lord wants me to!

 

[Karlysymon]

I wanted to reply along the same lines myself! You put it better than I could!!!

The biblical pattern was of relationship dynamics within a Christian family.

We have:

• Wives submitting to husband in the Lord
• Husband's loving their wives as Christ lives the Church
• Children honouring their parents
• Parents not exasperating their children

This kind of love is fraught with risk and flies in the face of our human inclination to "look after number one".

For those when have never encountered Jesus in a personal way, it makes as much common sense as steering into a skid in icy weather!

A healthy and functional dynamic here rests on each member upholding their part of the "deal" and leaving the Lord to guide the other members in his ways. So - a husband (like me) should focus on loving my wife like Jesus loves me, and not exasperating my kids.

As I grow in my knowledge of God, doing this becomes an act of gratitude an service to the one who laid his life down for me.

It is not for me to gripe that I am getting a raw deal some days, but to live the way my Lord wants me to!

"You guys" talk alot more about leading than serving or submitting. I simply laugh because it's 'selfish talk'.

 

[TokiEl]

So men ought to imitate the character of Jesus Christ and women ought not take advantage of that.

 

[mecca]

Isn't a wife supposed to love self-sacrificially

Either that should be expected of both women and men or neither. The idea that women should completely give up themselves and devote their whole life to others is an aspect of sexism. Women's identity can only come from serving others and it's not in relation to her true sense of self. Gilligan's Stages of Moral Development talks about this and describes how women are socialized to disregard their own selves but men do not go through this process. It's important to have a balance between what you do for yourself and what you do for others. You have to have your own identity as well.

And it really shouldn’t even be an expectation in the first place, people should do it out of the goodness of their hearts.