Left vs Right dichotomy

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#1
The traditional view is that the left restricts corporate growth with their over regulation. It is also a traditional view among the "conspiracy" folks that the corporations are globalist and NWO. Yet the leftist Democrats are Communist and that is the very goal of the NWO, a world Communist government. I am perplexed by this. Does anyone have insight to this?
 





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#2
quick answer: its a win-win situation for the NWO.

capitalism is far from a perfect system, but in my opinion, its the best choice we have. theres too much collusion between government and the corporations, and the government officials are totally corrupt.
communism means the people have lost and all power is now concentrated into the hands of the very few. its never worked, and will never work.
at least in the flawed capitalistic society, we have some (sort of) rights. at least we are supposed to have some. we did, at least.
 





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#4
I always find it amusing that people focus so much on the "Left vs Right" part of the political axis rather than the rest of it (such as authoritarian vs libertarian etc, which goes both left and right on each for example). There is far more on the political spectrum than just the left/right axis. It's troubling when it shows a deliberate lack of thought about the things they push when this dichotomy just asserts a "hero vs villain" fallacy, of course whatever side of that you're on makes you the hero, lmao.
Aside from this leftists use the term "right-wing" as a pejorative and Right-wingers use the term "leftist" as a pejorative. It's clearly Hegelian dialectic, the people themselves fighting for either side of the false-dichotomy are not the one's that benefit from it.
The result is just arbitrary, especially when you get both the left and right begging for a totalitarian state.
 





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#6
Bingo! - different sides of the same coin
Precisely. This is why imho, it requires circumventing the fallacious dichotomy set up for us. By doing so proper things related to the issues we see in the political/social/economic (et al) world can be discoursed in a way in which the key concerns themselves take priority over empty ideological banners.
The forced oversimplification of politics is clearly deliberate but then it also shows how turning it into a mundane piece of entertainment helps to blind people to the ideas they push. It's clever, I'll give it to them.
The strange part though is that so much of this in the past was not a concern to the average joe. But now it is the touch-stone of society itself, as in politics has come to define things that shouldn't be concerned with politics. There is a lot of strangeness to the way it all works though.
 





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#7
empty ideological banners.
The forced oversimplification of politics is clearly deliberate but then it also shows how turning it into a mundane piece of entertainment helps to blind people to the ideas they push.
When education is purposely dumbed down and controlled news media makes entertainment and fashion front page news - We have a problem! Everything is a sound bite. Talk show hosts rule public opinion. It's madness. The collective hive mentality.
 





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#8
Network(1976) - Ned Beatty's NETWORK speech-by Paddy Chayefsky


You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal -- that is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back. It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity. It is ecological balance.

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West! There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, Reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen, and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and A T & T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business.


The world is a business, Mr. Beale! It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war and famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.
 





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#9
When education is purposely dumbed down and controlled news media makes entertainment and fashion front page news - We have a problem! Everything is a sound bite. Talk show hosts rule public opinion. It's madness. The collective hive mentality.
Yes very much. It manifests practically as mashups of buzzwords and irrational presumptions (wherein that whole 'virtue-signaling' phenomena is, as well).
As for education, yeah it is very bubblewrapped, sugarfied, insanity in almost every way. Aside from the very fact the education doesn't even serve a role of catering towards even gaining employment itself (which is far worse for 'millennials' nowadays). That's a topic on it's own though. But the over-politicized nature of a lot of the gradually forced changes in education itself is downright immoral IMHO.
What should happening with much of it is that kids should be allowed to grow up as kids, when they reach their teens they should be learning the trivium and engaging in debates around these kind of issues in their colleges, intellectually, instead of having ideas ideologically forced onto them. The left and right have their own role around certain things, but propagation of ideas (often ones that are very sensitive often too) should not being done through 'beating into submission' in the case of what does happen to clearly be the left when it comes to mainstream education/academia et al.
It's clearly doing nobody any favors, that's for sure, and I know that people who aren't too far-leaning on either side see major issues in many areas with a lot of this. :)
 





Lisa

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#11
That's it. Kids are fed Marxist ideology - they memorize bullet points. They are not taught to think constructively. They are not independent free thinkers. It's all collective group think. We are the Borg - resistance is futile.
I suppose when your future rests in memorizing those bullet points for a passing grade and a degree then you do what you have to do?
 





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#12
I suppose when your future rests in memorizing those bullet points for a passing grade and a degree then you do what you have to do?
No thats not what I'm talking about. Yes students memorize things to pass exams, I get that. I'm talking about Marxist ideology that Universities and public school currently pump into the soft heads of today's youth. It's a type of dogma. Group think. Not thinking for yourself.
 





Lisa

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#13
No thats not what I'm talking about. Yes students memorize things to pass exams, I get that. I'm talking about Marxist ideology that Universities and public school currently pump into the soft heads of today's youth. It's a type of dogma. Group think. Not think for yourself.
I got that but I also think that kids are memorizing those things to get a degree. Ya I think it becomes their mantra but how can that be helped when you’re paying money to earn a degree for your living? Pretty insidious to do it that way.
 





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#14
I got that but I also think that kids are memorizing those things to get a degree. Ya I think it becomes their mantra but how can that be helped when you’re paying money to earn a degree for your living? Pretty insidious to do it that way.
Absolutely. There needs to be a complete reform/overhaul of the public education system to weed out this Marxist ideology.
 





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#17
I always find it amusing that people focus so much on the "Left vs Right" part of the political axis rather than the rest of it (such as authoritarian vs libertarian etc, which goes both left and right on each for example). There is far more on the political spectrum than just the left/right axis. It's troubling when it shows a deliberate lack of thought about the things they push when this dichotomy just asserts a "hero vs villain" fallacy, of course whatever side of that you're on makes you the hero, lmao.
Aside from this leftists use the term "right-wing" as a pejorative and Right-wingers use the term "leftist" as a pejorative. It's clearly Hegelian dialectic, the people themselves fighting for either side of the false-dichotomy are not the one's that benefit from it.
The result is just arbitrary, especially when you get both the left and right begging for a totalitarian state.
I agree about limiting ourselves to categories. Identifying only along with party lines without forming our own educated opinions helps to keep the status-quo. The ultra-wealthy, ruling elite would like nothing more than us common folks to stay divided.

That said, left/right is still the basic differentiation within political theory going back to the French revolution. There are several unique models with more than the usual 2 axis' to define political spectrum, although 2 is more common (and simple). There was an active member recently named Etagloc that used to criticize these graphs, but I find them useful to pinpoint roughly where we land on a social/economic scale. I like this one because of the economic systems included:

 





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#18
The traditional view is that the left restricts corporate growth with their over regulation. It is also a traditional view among the "conspiracy" folks that the corporations are globalist and NWO. Yet the leftist Democrats are Communist and that is the very goal of the NWO, a world Communist government. I am perplexed by this. Does anyone have insight to this?
You raise some really important questions and make a lot of sense with your statements.
This podcast addresses some of what is being discussed here... in the early part of the interview, they expound on how the term "conspiracy theory" is being utilized to push a narrative that anyone asking critical questions or making independent analysis is either a "left wing nut case" or a "white supremacist". Its so interesting that the same group of scoundrels set the playing field, change the rules as the game progresses, yet the teams keep confronting each other rather than the actual source of the issues.