Jesus/yeshua In The Tanakh

[Mr. Blah]

Did or did jesus not come from David flesh bowel ?

According to the text of the NT Jesus was born to a virgin and was there in the beginning with God. According to the text of the NT Jesus is God.


Then you have the issue in regard to the curse of Jeconiah. Where Gods says in regard to jeconiah ( Matthew 1:12) Jeremiah 22:30 This is what the Lord says. Record this man as childless. A man who will not prosper in his lifetime. For none of his offspring will prosper. None will sit on the throne of David or rule in Judah.

Can anyone show Jesus connection to any of the tribes ? Was he born of a virgin or what. Care to explain.

This article would answer the "Jeconiah problem".

https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/the-problem-of-the-curse-on-jeconiah-in-relation-to-the-genealogy-of-jesus-issues-prophecy/

 

[Lady]

Off-topic here.
I am curious what denomination do you belong to?
Non-denominational, Charismatic, Baptist, RCC, or what?

No, I just want to know it (if you want to reveal it).... not to bully, judge or anything else....

I am a Christian, plain and simple.
I am currently relearning many things that I had been taught in the 2 churches to which I belonged. I completely belong to God now. "I am in the world, but not of the world."

 

[Mr. Blah]

I am a Christian, plain and simple.
I am currently relearning many things that I had been taught in the 2 churches to which I belonged. I completely belong to God now. "I am in the world, but not of the world."

Off-topic again.

Is your avatar based on (or similar to) your face features?

Who draws it?

 

[Lady]

Well, I could ask a similar question about your user name.
Mr. Blah is not too compelling of a name, is it?

BTW,
Thanks for the link to the information on Jeconiah. I had not heard of the curse, and thus why some believe Christ could not be the Messiah.
It will be a good read for me a little later!

 

[Mr. Blah]

Well, I could ask a similar question about your user name.
Mr. Blah is not too compelling of a name, is it?

BTW,
Thanks for the link to the information on Jeconiah. I had not heard of the curse, and thus it is why some believe Christ could not be the Messiah.
It will be a good read for me a little later!

I admit it is an ugly username.
I don't know why I couldn't take good username since I knew about internet forums.
My username in another forum is.... errr, kinda ugly too....
After I press "Register", then I regret why I take that ugly username. Repeat.
I am so terrible in choosing username.

 

[Lady]

In response to Yahda's challenge "what about the curse of Jeconiah?" in relationship to the claim of Jesus Christ as the awaited Messiah, I was given information from Mr. Blah which convincingly deals with the arguments surrounding this curse in the lineage of Christ.
Those who wrestle with the issue of Jesus Christ as Messiah argue that due to the curse of King Jeconiah by God, Jesus cannot be the Christ.
Here is an excerpt from an article countering this view:

The Problem of the Curse on Jeconiah in Relation to the Genealogy of Jesus​

The problem can be laid out in this way:
According to the genealogy in Matthew 1:12, Jesus is a descendant of Jeconiah. But Jeconiah was cursed in Jeremiah 22:24 and 22:30:
As surely as I live,” declares the LORD, “even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off.

This is what the LORD says: “Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah.”
Since no descendant of Jeconiah could ever sit on the throne, if Jesus is a descendant of this cursed king, he is disqualified from being the Messiah.

If true, then what is Jeconiah doing in the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew’s gospel? And how can Jesus qualify to be the Messiah? First of all, we have to wonder why Matthew would ever have included Jeconiah among the ancestors of Jesus if this so obviously disqualified Jesus from being the Messiah. In fact, the Scripture shows that the curse was only short-term, if not altogether reversed by God.

There are three parts to the curse on Jeconiah (who is also called Jehoiachin or Coniah):

• that he would be childless (this is how the Hebrew text literally reads)
• that he would not prosper in his lifetime
• that none of his descendants would rule in Judah

The Scripture shows that in fact none of these took place.

• Though the Hebrew literally reads, “Record this man childless,” Jeconiah in fact had children.

The descendants of Jehoiachin the captive: Shealtiel his son, Malkiram, Pedaiah, Shenazzar, Jekamiah, Hoshama and Nedabiah
— 1 Chronicles 3:17-18

• He did prosper in his day.

In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Evil-Merodach became king of Babylon, he released Jehoiachin from prison on the twenty-seventh day of the twelfth month. He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honour higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon.
— 2 Kings 25:27-28

• His grandson Zerubbabel prospered and ruled. In fact the same words God used in rejecting Jeconiah were deliberately used in establishing Zerubbabel.
  “As surely as I live,” declares the LORD, “even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off.
  — Jeremiah 22:24
  
  “‘On that day,’ declares the LORD Almighty, ‘I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,’ declares the LORD Almighty.”
  — Haggai 2:23

Though Zerubbabel did not sit on the throne as king, the fact that Haggai 2:23 uses the same terminology as Jeremiah 22:24 shows that Haggai intended to indicate a reversal of the curse.

We have to conclude that in Jeremiah 22:30, “in his lifetime” qualifies the following phrases, and “for” explains that no descendant of his will prosper and rule during his lifetime.

We find rabbinic sources which also agree that God reversed the curse on Jeconiah, which they attribute to repentance on Jeconiah’s part. We even find the idea that the Messiah will descend from Jeconiah–exactly the opposite of what some say is impossible!

Some of these sources are as follows:
Sanhedrin 37b-38a, –Soncino Talmud edition, with selected footnotes; Pesikta de-Rab Kahana (5th c.), –Yale Judaica edition translated by William G. Braude and Israel J. Kapstein (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society of America, 1975), pp. 376-77. Bracketed portions are Braude. For more sources:

https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/the-problem-of-the-curse-on-jeconiah-in-relation-to-the-genealogy-of-jesus-issues-prophecy/

(Thank you, Mr. Blah, wherever you are!)

 

[Lady]

It seems the cover up is still happening by the Pharisaical spirit. There are approx. 1 million Jews who are believers that Yeshua/Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT Messianism prophecies. One rabbi has threatened murder of two such men who have revealed his false doctrine as he twists prophecies regarding the Messiah.

 

[Kung Fu]

Isaiah 42 clearly shows that it was the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) who fulfilled that prophecy.

 

[Lady]

The following sections of the bible display how Jesus Christ fulfills the role of Messiah, the "Branch", who must be of the lineage of David.

"Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch." Zech. 3:8.

Jer. 23:5-6
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Jer. 33:15-16
In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwellsafely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness

Amazingly, the Messiah is not only a son of David, but is Jehovah God our righteousness Himself, echoing Isaiah 9:6-7 where the Messianic king is called the Mighty God!

The rabbis hold this title Branch as a designation of the Messiah. More on this later.

Let us summarize the data regarding God’s servant:

1. He is a descendent of Jesse through his son David. This proves that God’s servant is an Israelite, not an Arab.
2. He is called Israel and distinct from national Israel. This provides additional proof that the servant is an Israelite and not an Arab.
3. He is the Mighty God and eternal king.
4. He is empowered by God’s Spirit.
5. He will restore national Israel.
6. He will be a light to the Gentiles and the Savior of the entire earth.
7. He will be a covenant to the people.
8. He will bring a law which all the peoples will follow.
9. He will at first be rejected and despised by both the nation of Israel and other nations.
10. He will offer himself as a sacrifice for sin.
11. He will see offspring and carry out the Lord’s will.
12. He will intercede and justify sinners

 

[Kung Fu]

1. He is a descendent of Jesse through his son David. This proves that God’s servant is an Israelite, not an Arab.
   
2. He is called Israel and distinct from national Israel. This provides additional proof that the servant is an Israelite and not an Arab.
3. He is the Mighty God and eternal king.
4. He is empowered by God’s Spirit.
5. He will restore national Israel.
6. He will be a light to the Gentiles and the Savior of the entire earth.
7. He will be a covenant to the people.
8. He will bring a law which all the peoples will follow.
9. He will at first be rejected and despised by both the nation of Israel and other nations.
10. He will offer himself as a sacrifice for sin.
11. He will see offspring and carry out the Lord’s will.
12. He will intercede and justify sinners

First- This proves absolutely nothing. Many BIBLICAL scholars see both genealogies as inventions in order for their belief in Jesus to fit into the Jewish criteria of the Torah. How is Jesus related to Joseph?

Second- Isaiah 42 10-17 disagree with you.

Third- Ask any Jew and they'll tell you no human, prophet, and or messiah can be a God.

Fourth- Of course prophets are empowered by God's spirit.

Fifth- How did he restore national Israel?

Sixth- Jesus only came to the Jews. This is explicitly stated in the NT. He hasn't saved earth either lol.

Eighth- PAUL brought a law which was for the gentiles and not the Jews.

Anyways I can go on.

My turn now.

Who is Isaiah 42 10-17 referring too?

You should also note I'm not disagreeing with you in that Jesus is prophesied in the Torah just throwing stuff out there that could easily contradict what YOU'RE saying.