Jesus - Man of God? What did the 2nd Temple Era Jewish converts think?

Red Sky at Morning

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A Jewish perspective - an interesting discussion bringing context to many of the passages that are frequently discussed here. Would early pre-Nicene believers have accepted the the “Doctrine of the Trinity” or would they have taken a different view?

 






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see if i'm a christian, the first thing im doing is rooting out all the phoney characters from my list of go to figures of inspiration and education

what i wouldnt be doing is watching david wood material or ones from this phony self identity worshipping yid.

or maybe you guys have nothing else left except this?

im sure there are some honest christians somewhere. personally i prefer to read material from people like Madam Guyon. Those type of people the likes of you havent got a clue about.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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see if i'm a christian, the first thing im doing is rooting out all the phoney characters from my list of go to figures of inspiration and education

what i wouldnt be doing is watching david wood material or ones from this phony self identity worshipping yid.

or maybe you guys have nothing else left except this?

im sure there are some honest christians somewhere. personally i prefer to read material from people like Madam Guyon. Those type of people the likes of you havent got a clue about.
I wonder - did a “high Christology” or a “low Christology” lead Madam Guyon to a belief in salvation through grace by faith? It matters...


ABE90792-5591-4BF0-B100-83EF15875304.jpeg



In the Christian dispute regarding grace and works, Guyon defended the belief that salvation is the result of grace rather than works. Like St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, and Martin Luther, she thought that a person's deliverance can only come from God as an outside source, never from within the person himself or herself. As a result of His own free will, God bestows his favour as a gift. In her autobiography, for example, Madame Guyon criticized self–righteous people who try to gain heaven through their works. She praised lowly sinners who merely submitted themselves to God's will. Of the so-called righteous, she wrote: "the righteous person, supported by the great number of works of righteousness he presumes to have done, seems to hold his salvation in his own hands, and regards heaven as the recompense due to his merits.… His Saviour is, for him, almost useless.[2] "These 'righteous persons' expect God to save them as a reward for their good works." In contrast to the self-sufficient, "righteous" egoists, the sinners who have selflessly submitted to God "are carried swiftly by the wings of love and confidence into the arms of their Saviour, who gives them gratuitously what He has infinitely merited for them".[2] God's "bounties are effects of His will, and not the fruits of our merits."[2]

As for “this phony self identity worshipping yid”, Amir Tsarfati comes out as believing the same thing as me about salvation, which does seem to rather rule out the worship of self.

46FC4E0F-3FAB-407B-8C34-25C0FC1FEFC9.jpeg
 






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I wonder - did a “high Christology” or a “low Christology” lead Madam Guyon to a belief in salvation through grace by faith? It matters...


View attachment 42836



In the Christian dispute regarding grace and works, Guyon defended the belief that salvation is the result of grace rather than works. Like St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, and Martin Luther, she thought that a person's deliverance can only come from God as an outside source, never from within the person himself or herself. As a result of His own free will, God bestows his favour as a gift. In her autobiography, for example, Madame Guyon criticized self–righteous people who try to gain heaven through their works. She praised lowly sinners who merely submitted themselves to God's will. Of the so-called righteous, she wrote: "the righteous person, supported by the great number of works of righteousness he presumes to have done, seems to hold his salvation in his own hands, and regards heaven as the recompense due to his merits.… His Saviour is, for him, almost useless.[2] "These 'righteous persons' expect God to save them as a reward for their good works." In contrast to the self-sufficient, "righteous" egoists, the sinners who have selflessly submitted to God "are carried swiftly by the wings of love and confidence into the arms of their Saviour, who gives them gratuitously what He has infinitely merited for them".[2] God's "bounties are effects of His will, and not the fruits of our merits."[2]

As for “this phony self identity worshipping yid”, Amir Tsarfati comes out as believing the same thing as me about salvation, which does seem to rather rule out the worship of self.

View attachment 42837

i call him 'yid' in the zionist/israeli mossad style sense, as in, he's one of 'them assholes'
that doesnt mean i dont value JEWISHNESS when it comes to religion and metaphysics

for example, you wont get many muslims like me who are comfortable with taking knowledge from kabballah...but i do. why? because it fits in my metaphysical map.
the left side and right side, yin and yang, feminine and masculine.

the left side pertains to our metaphysical descent..and that side deals with the Jalali side of God, that is the side of God that is old testament like.
since Jesus came to bring about the metaphysical ascent and as a manifestation/incarnation of the logos (as in, our goal, where we come from and where we' want to return to), then he was part of the Jamali side of God, which is His Mercy and Love.

However what Madam Guyon through her own experiences dealt with..as Jesus dealt with, was that to reach the yang side, they got there through the yin side..that is yin leads to yang and vice versa..and it is only through the experience of both of them combined that one reaches the highest level..experiences death of their carnal nature and so forth.
that is the meaning of these words by Imam Malik

Imam Malik (r) said, "Whoever studies jurisprudence [fiqh] and didn't study Sufism (tasawwuf) will be corrupted; and whoever studied tasawwuf and didn't study fiqh will become a heretic; and whoever combined both will be reach the Truth."

this even relates directly to John 1: 1
The Word was with God (pertaining to our metaphysical descent, to God's Trancendence and seperation from us), the side which brings laws which require submission (yin, is about submssion).
The IS GOD (pertaining to our metaphysical ascent and the experience of God's Immanence in All). The side which connects us to all people and through which the experience of LOVE brings about righteousness.
The two are called the path of right-action and the path of non-action in eastern philosophy.

Madam Guyon did not go around studying material from different religions. she had her own experiences and shared them..and i could understand/contexualise them because im familiar with the themes.
Where she went deeper was in really explaining that the yin side (not her precise words, but how i u nderstand them) leads to the yang side. that is, that to experience unity of consciousness, a person has to totally die to their self..by total submission..
that is more than merely following laws, that is total total submission...the classical sufi ways.

Since that yin side pertains to the OT side of God, that doesnt fit into the nice little 'jezuz mangod' system does it? so she got kicked out of the catholic church and accused of 'trusting in her own works'
so what you've posted only shows one side of the story, the side where she's not directly saying it, but implying that faith > works, but they dont see the deeper contexts within tyhat where faith is works and vice versa.

the seperation of the 2, is only within the context of judaism, which was an imbalanced system.
in islam, the 2 are the same thing. they are not seperate. you cannot have one without the other.
greater yin/lesser yang and vice versa.



the zionist you're glorifying, is just one of them 'let me derp a christian style answer, so them stupid roman pagans just accept me and i can feed them with pro zionist/anti islam all day long'
lets not kid ourselves
the guy is here only to hate on islam..and his whole speeches are merely a ploy to get your attention whilst he goes on planted the seeds of anti-muslim rhetoric.
ive actually listened to him a few times, i dont just say this without justification
im a good judge of character and when i see a cunt, im not wrong.

works, is about submitting to the will of God
not about worship of the self
he is 'worshipping the self' via his identity, it's about praising his judaism and knowing you xtians worship that bloodline.
it's about presenting a grand 'islam vs christianity' message to you idiots.

you do know that jews used to create fake prophecies like the Bahman yast, using biblical style themes, to make the persians hate the christians/romans...just to ferment war between them so THEY can grow stronger and take jerusalem?
you know what the end game was? the persians woke up, realised the jews had manipulated them, took jerusalem and done a lot of killing of christians there, so they pulled the plug..and the jews nearly got ruined by romans.
the best bit is that all their efforts did was benefit muslims, but in return muslims gave jews shelter and a new home/context to live in to escape persecution from christians.

this yid is just feeding you with the same east vs west propaganda...and we know in advance where the whore and the false prophet of theirs are going.
so i suppose i can just sit back and enjoy it.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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i call him 'yid' in the zionist/israeli mossad style sense, as in, he's one of 'them assholes'
that doesnt mean i dont value JEWISHNESS when it comes to religion and metaphysics

for example, you wont get many muslims like me who are comfortable with taking knowledge from kabballah...but i do. why? because it fits in my metaphysical map.
the left side and right side, yin and yang, feminine and masculine.

the left side pertains to our metaphysical descent..and that side deals with the Jalali side of God, that is the side of God that is old testament like.
since Jesus came to bring about the metaphysical ascent and as a manifestation/incarnation of the logos (as in, our goal, where we come from and where we' want to return to), then he was part of the Jamali side of God, which is His Mercy and Love.

However what Madam Guyon through her own experiences dealt with..as Jesus dealt with, was that to reach the yang side, they got there through the yin side..that is yin leads to yang and vice versa..and it is only through the experience of both of them combined that one reaches the highest level..experiences death of their carnal nature and so forth.
that is the meaning of these words by Imam Malik

Imam Malik (r) said, "Whoever studies jurisprudence [fiqh] and didn't study Sufism (tasawwuf) will be corrupted; and whoever studied tasawwuf and didn't study fiqh will become a heretic; and whoever combined both will be reach the Truth."

this even relates directly to John 1: 1
The Word was with God (pertaining to our metaphysical descent, to God's Trancendence and seperation from us), the side which brings laws which require submission (yin, is about submssion).
The IS GOD (pertaining to our metaphysical ascent and the experience of God's Immanence in All). The side which connects us to all people and through which the experience of LOVE brings about righteousness.
The two are called the path of right-action and the path of non-action in eastern philosophy.

Madam Guyon did not go around studying material from different religions. she had her own experiences and shared them..and i could understand/contexualise them because im familiar with the themes.
Where she went deeper was in really explaining that the yin side (not her precise words, but how i u nderstand them) leads to the yang side. that is, that to experience unity of consciousness, a person has to totally die to their self..by total submission..
that is more than merely following laws, that is total total submission...the classical sufi ways.

Since that yin side pertains to the OT side of God, that doesnt fit into the nice little 'jezuz mangod' system does it? so she got kicked out of the catholic church and accused of 'trusting in her own works'
so what you've posted only shows one side of the story, the side where she's not directly saying it, but implying that faith > works, but they dont see the deeper contexts within tyhat where faith is works and vice versa.

the seperation of the 2, is only within the context of judaism, which was an imbalanced system.
in islam, the 2 are the same thing. they are not seperate. you cannot have one without the other.
greater yin/lesser yang and vice versa.



the zionist you're glorifying, is just one of them 'let me derp a christian style answer, so them stupid roman pagans just accept me and i can feed them with pro zionist/anti islam all day long'
lets not kid ourselves
the guy is here only to hate on islam..and his whole speeches are merely a ploy to get your attention whilst he goes on planted the seeds of anti-muslim rhetoric.
ive actually listened to him a few times, i dont just say this without justification
im a good judge of character and when i see a cunt, im not wrong.

works, is about submitting to the will of God
not about worship of the self
he is 'worshipping the self' via his identity, it's about praising his judaism and knowing you xtians worship that bloodline.
it's about presenting a grand 'islam vs christianity' message to you idiots.

you do know that jews used to create fake prophecies like the Bahman yast, using biblical style themes, to make the persians hate the christians/romans...just to ferment war between them so THEY can grow stronger and take jerusalem?
you know what the end game was? the persians woke up, realised the jews had manipulated them, took jerusalem and done a lot of killing of christians there, so they pulled the plug..and the jews nearly got ruined by romans.
the best bit is that all their efforts did was benefit muslims, but in return muslims gave jews shelter and a new home/context to live in to escape persecution from christians.

this yid is just feeding you with the same east vs west propaganda...and we know in advance where the whore and the false prophet of theirs are going.
so i suppose i can just sit back and enjoy it.
Hi @AspiringSoul

What I found interesting was how Jews who recognise Yeshua as being the Messiah later in life often have a very good insight into the Hebrew Scriptures from their religious upbringing. The quality of the discussion is high and it is actually Amir interviewing another person on the topic. I found it very enlightening anyway, particularly in the light of the story of the Road to Emmaus...

Luke 24​
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?​

p.s. I deliberately narrowed the title of the thread to focus on the question of what the first Jewish believers might have understood based on what is now called the Old Testament.
 






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Hi @AspiringSoul

What I found interesting was how Jews who recognise Yeshua as being the Messiah later in life often have a very good insight into the Hebrew Scriptures from their religious upbringing. The quality of the discussion is high and it is actually Amir interviewing another person on the topic. I found it very enlightening anyway, particularly in the light of the story of the Road to Emmaus...

Luke 24​
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?​

p.s. I deliberately narrowed the title of the thread to focus on the question of what the first Jewish believers might have understood based on what is now called the Old Testament.
look it's like this

1) the israelites and jews were not taught about the concept of a heaven/hell and day of judgement. all they had was 'our national God, our one, not the other nations ones'
so then they have faith and miracles n shit happen, God spoils them.
then the miracles leave them and God is angry at anything they do..
then they see injustices, inequality etc. they see the rules not working, they obey God and get nothing, then die.

they have no clue about life after death. so from that perspective, they're disappointed, losing faith etc.
Each time they complain, they get told "YOUR ANCESTORS DOE"

some give in, worship some other entity.
next thing you know, mothers are forced to eat their babies...to survive.

isnt God great?

2) eventually, after jews have settled in the second temple era, they learn some new beliefs, enough to allow them to stand true to their faith.
then the greeks fuck them hard..and the jews struggle heavily, many die.
they're forced to become 'westernised' (hellenised)
it's kind of like how most of you lost are cuckholds now with transexual children, that is the way this world works..
the greeks were forcing all types of shit onto jews..and jews were resisting.

they begged God to never hurt them again..they prayed for days and days, fasted, in 'sackcloth and ashes' as it were.

so what comes?

Jesus, as an incarnation of the logos, talking about hades
yeh..jews HAD to reject him, it was designed that way.

however now, with jews having a modern perspective, they kind of dont feel the same weight of emotion when they're like "yeh, OUR JEWISH messiah"
because now they're zionist self worshippers and knowing all the roman pagans worship a jew, is all important to them
so im sure a few will remind you from time to time...that they're the chosen ones and jesus was a yid like them

the rest doesnt mean shit. theology doesnt mean anything here...contexts/politics and history matter more.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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look it's like this

1) the israelites and jews were not taught about the concept of a heaven/hell and day of judgement. all they had was 'our national God, our one, not the other nations ones'
so then they have faith and miracles n shit happen, God spoils them.
then the miracles leave them and God is angry at anything they do..
then they see injustices, inequality etc. they see the rules not working, they obey God and get nothing, then die.

they have no clue about life after death. so from that perspective, they're disappointed, losing faith etc.
Each time they complain, they get told "YOUR ANCESTORS DOE"

some give in, worship some other entity.
next thing you know, mothers are forced to eat their babies...to survive.

isnt God great?

2) eventually, after jews have settled in the second temple era, they learn some new beliefs, enough to allow them to stand true to their faith.
then the greeks fuck them hard..and the jews struggle heavily, many die.
they're forced to become 'westernised' (hellenised)
it's kind of like how most of you lost are cuckholds now with transexual children, that is the way this world works..
the greeks were forcing all types of shit onto jews..and jews were resisting.

they begged God to never hurt them again..they prayed for days and days, fasted, in 'sackcloth and ashes' as it were.

so what comes?

Jesus, as an incarnation of the logos, talking about hades
yeh..jews HAD to reject him, it was designed that way.

however now, with jews having a modern perspective, they kind of dont feel the same weight of emotion when they're like "yeh, OUR JEWISH messiah"
because now they're zionist self worshippers and knowing all the roman pagans worship a jew, is all important to them
so im sure a few will remind you from time to time...that they're the chosen ones and jesus was a yid like them

the rest doesnt mean shit. theology doesnt mean anything here...contexts/politics and history matter more.
I completely get why people get into a kind of spiritual “identity politics” and it is certainly possible to construct perspectives and critiques from this standpoint.

On the other hand, I have a settled impression from reading the Bible that the “voice” or Logos coming through appears to know the end from the beginning. Examples like the bronze serpent (which Moses surely had no idea of it’s symbolic significance) show that “Jesus is in the OT concealed”.

I don’t especially love Harry Potter but the words on the Golden Snitch appear to have a resonance with the Road to Emmaus conversation!

CB6F2725-67F3-49F8-B0C8-7CD3AF912E21.jpeg
 






Red Sky at Morning

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It's truly amazing that there is a dispute about this when Jesus who is the Saviour demands good works.
Jesus clearly requires good works of his disciples, but good works are not enough to save anyone. Btw @TokiEl - what did you make of the video in the OP?
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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A question just occurred to me @AspiringSoul

Do you think that (Zionist?) Christians believe that God loves Jewish people more than Arabs, or that God’s desire for them to come to a saving faith is greater than those from other ethnic or national groups?
 






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I completely get why people get into a kind of spiritual “identity politics” and it is certainly possible to construct perspectives and critiques from this standpoint.

On the other hand, I have a settled impression from reading the Bible that the “voice” or Logos coming through appears to know the end from the beginning. Examples like the bronze serpent (which Moses surely had no idea of it’s symbolic significance) show that “Jesus is in the OT concealed”.

I don’t especially love Harry Potter but the words on the Golden Snitch appear to have a resonance with the Road to Emmaus conversation!

View attachment 42860
you say it like "he doesnt believe in the prophecies"
i do, but i just view prophecy as a whole as part of the design of the collective monkey mind and part of the grand illusion
i believe Jesus was big enough to know all this as he played his role in moving some of the peices in the puzzle.

you know before Mohammad received revelation, the jews had established a jewish state in jerusalem under sassanian authority, a vassal state. At the time they truely believed the jewish messiah was coming, but they didnt imagine a 'logos incarnation' type figure, but more a classical judaic type Moses and Davidic type figure.
They believed the ruler in jerusalem (Nehemiah ben hushiel) was the 'messiah ben joseph' and would fulfill the suffering servant prophecies..and that he would get killed by the evil romans...
and then the messiah would come
just like the new song prophecy in isaiah 42, they expected this messianic figure to come out of arabia, 'the settlements where kedar lives', that is Mecca btw.
So what occurs? Mohammad manifests.

When jews asked Jesus to judge them according to the Torah. Jesus said other things and didnt do as they asked literally.
When jews asked Mohammad to judge them, he told them "do what the Torah tells you to do" and when they were unwilling to go through with the law of stoning, he forced them to do it.

within this, on a subconscious level the jews were living under a guilt complex in accordance with Leviticus 26.
There are different interpretations, different themes, all part of the story.
there's a guilt complex on the collective level in jews that forces them to reject Jesus in order to suffer..and yet that is in occordance with 'the plan' right?
so i dont criticise jews for that directly, i kind of expect them to reject Jesus until they've received their 'portion' in accordance with the levels they collectively NEED to move on from that guilt complex.

some jews take offense to the idea of jews being 'in sin' but the guilt complex they hold is obvious.
for example, the persians gave shelter and a home to jews for 2500 yrs. that is insane levels of love and acceptance.
in the book of Esther, the guy Haman tries to have jews killed, but the king sees through him. The moral in reality is that the persians overcame evil and accepted jews...
2500 yrs, most of which are under muslim rule. that isnt just shia rule but for a longer period persia was sufi/sunni. so they've experienced zoroastrianism, sunni/sufi islam and then shia islam and all the while, they've been accepted.
the greeks and romans persecuted jews.
so why did jews decide later to hurt muslims? sure, muslims played their part against jews, but in truth the jews really did push the west to attack muslims, pushed this clash of civilisations theme. even made an anti persia propaganda move, 300..where they kissed greek ass.
for jews to do that, they have betrayed their greatest ever ally....
my thinking is that no people can do so much fukery without their head being fucked..
and my take is their religion itself is what fucked them hard.

regardless of prophecies, belief in God, religion, scripture etc..the fact is in the end of it, they are fucked and religion has caused them to be fucked
much is said about islam in the same way..and i agree 100% with that.
that's because these religions are hijacked by evil thoughtforms...and it's why Jesus said "you worship YOUR FATHER SATAN"

my view is that religion is something we're supposed to experience, but overcome...to basically realise 'the game'

if you want to see more on this theme, you should watch the Guy Ritchie move, Revolver.
that guy was on the joe rogan podcast talking about the ego/identity etc. he understands these themes.
Revolver is low rated, but i rate it highly.




do you believe in the law of attraction? as new age as that is, it is nonetheless a real phenomenon that's since been marketed and made popular, but there is truth within it.
so im a big believer that prophecies and manifestations are part of collective archetypes and a game..part of the illusion.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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...do you believe in the law of attraction? as new age as that is, it is nonetheless a real phenomenon that's since been marketed and made popular, but there is truth within it.
so im a big believer that prophecies and manifestations are part of collective archetypes and a game..part of the illusion.
I was aware of “Revolver” so I had a look at what Guy Ritchie thought about it...


I also know about the concept of the “Law of Attraction” and presumably in this context the notion would be that if enough people focus on something and want it enough, prophecies will start getting fulfilled? It’s certainly a sophisticated argument for accounting for certain events, but I might suggest that, at least with reference to some, the often unexpected and un-looked for events that might fulfil certain perhaps long forgotten verses throw some doubt on this interpretation.
 






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A question just occurred to me @AspiringSoul

Do you think that (Zionist?) Christians believe that God loves Jewish people more than Arabs, or that God’s desire for them to come to a saving faith is greater than those from other ethnic or national groups?
i dont even have a problem with this viewpoint anyway. The Quran tells us that Allah chose the children of Israel above all other nations. Favoured them, raised the 'best of humanity' from them and yet when the Quran condemns them, it says 'there are some who DO HARM TO THEIR OWN SOULS'. The Quran doesnt condemn jews directly. the translations imply that because they are fake translations.
eg if it says 'the people of the book' in the true context when it means 'thej ews of madina in the time of Mohammad', the translations make out that the verses refer to an entire modern jewish people outside of the original context.
so when God was condemning the actions of jews living in Madina when they fought a war against muslims and supported pagans financially and politically...that was not a wholesale condemnation of all jews.
likewise when the Quran goes into the history of israel, it does mention the bad times, but moreso the good. the stories of the prophets.
YET because muslims inc myself have been dominated by collective anti-jew narratives, that influences the way we interpret those verses and hence think of israel, even as an idea.

i believe israel and the jewish mafia running the jewish thoughtform are 'the whore of babylon'
but within that collective system, the [palestinian cause, arab nationalism, salafism, the saudis, all are part of that decoy and game.
it's all a design of the Beast, to hurt all of us.

my problem with zionism be it christian or jewish, is that it is an artificial move designed to ultimately harm the true jewish cause.
it's set up in order to fail by it's own design...and in the process bring about destruction of all 3 Abrahimic religions.
the fall of mystery babylon, the whore getting killed..and the false prophet being the one who brings about that death, along with that being part of God's own design too...fits with that.
it is a decoy..a set up...and anyone who pushes the zionist agenda is an enemy of true jews

here's an example
throughout the bible, Zechariah 5, jeremiah 1-3, habbakuk, you have themes that spell the destruction of nations like babylon and the jews..and yet the very themes there, fit with modern israel today.
in otherwords israel is the very thing the jewish religion not only rejected, but mocked and marked for destruction
and the very destruction written eg in Habbakuk 2, is the same destruction islam has foretold for the jewish people...

israel is central to that.
the city of jerusalem under that system is figurateively known as sodom and egypt
when you see gay parade in jerusalem. masonic/luciferian lodges..and all built by a state owned by hardcore baphomet worshippers (look up the rothschild family, they're satanic to the core).


since the Quran says in surah 17 verse 104 (or it may be 103) that God will gather the israelites in one place as a sign of the last hour...
muslims are supposed to be pro-jewish in this matter.
within reason though..but they're not are they? because pan arab nationalism and fake islamic revivalism, along with the creation of fake islamic states, inc pakistan with it's fake hudood ordinances (a fake version of shariah that should never have been put into practice), forced by a military tyrant who was the butt-boy of saudi satanism.
you think im with that camp? fk them..
that is the fake islam, the hijacked version being shoved down your throat...and the people who allow it to, are the same people backing israel.
 






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I was aware of “Revolver” so I had a look at what Guy Ritchie thought about it...


I also know about the concept of the “Law of Attraction” and presumably in this context the notion would be that if enough people focus on something and want it enough, prophecies will start getting fulfilled? It’s certainly a sophisticated argument for accounting for certain events, but I might suggest that, at least with reference to some, the often unexpected and un-looked for events that might fulfil certain perhaps long forgotten verses throw some doubt on this interpretation.
what you're overlooking is that the subconscious doesnt miss a trick..and everything in scripture is collectively accounted for even if people arent aware on a conscious level.

prophecy comes true, but prophecy is part of our coding..so it must come true by virtue of belief..even if that belief is held on a subconscious level.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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what you're overlooking is that the subconscious doesnt miss a trick..and everything in scripture is collectively accounted for even if people arent aware on a conscious level.

prophecy comes true, but prophecy is part of our coding..so it must come true by virtue of belief..even if that belief is held on a subconscious level.
Here’s a question then... why do you think that the prophecies of the Mayan calendar, Nostradamus and Mother Shipton missed out on connecting with this force? It would seem to me from studying a variety of fulfilled and unfulfilled prophecies that there is something rather special about those given in the Bible?
 






Axl888

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A Jewish perspective - an interesting discussion bringing context to many of the passages that are frequently discussed here. Would early pre-Nicene believers have accepted the the “Doctrine of the Trinity” or would they have taken a different view?

A very enlightening discussion proving that Jesus is God...a must watch video, I see this a call from the shepherd to his sheeps, but sadly goats wouldnt understand.
 






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