Jesus, God of the Old Testament

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One of the most compelling verses in Scripture that Christ was God incarnate is in John Chapter 10. The religious leaders were going to stone Jesus,, I and my Father are one v31; And the Jews picked up stones again to stone Him; v32, And Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shown you from my Father; For which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered Him saying; for a good work we stone you not, but for blasphemy; and because thou being a man maketh thyself God. v36, Say ye of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world; thou blasphemest (you are the blasphemers) because I said I am the Son of God?
Being called the Son of God is the same as saying He was God. Read the Scriptures
 






phipps

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True. He is the one dealt with people. He is the one that appeared, visited and spoke to them. Jesus said, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form" (John 5:37). No human being on earth has ever seen or heard the Father at anytime.
 






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True. He is the one dealt with people. He is the one that appeared, visited and spoke to them. Jesus said, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form" (John 5:37). No human being on earth has ever seen or heard the Father at anytime. Until Christ.
 






Thunderian

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One of the most compelling verses in Scripture that Christ was God incarnate is in John Chapter 10. The religious leaders were going to stone Jesus,, I and my Father are one v31; And the Jews picked up stones again to stone Him; v32, And Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shown you from my Father; For which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered Him saying; for a good work we stone you not, but for blasphemy; and because thou being a man maketh thyself God. v36, Say ye of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world; thou blasphemest (you are the blasphemers) because I said I am the Son of God?
Being called the Son of God is the same as saying He was God. Read the Scriptures
This is also a hard passage to deal with for those who deny that Jesus ever said he was God.
 






A Freeman

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If Jesus is supposedly God, even though He never claimed to be God, how could Jesus have a God?

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, MY God (1), MY God (2), why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13-54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] MY God (3), and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of MY God (4), and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God (5), and the name of the city of MY God (6), [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY God (7)*: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

Note well that Christ's Revelation to John was AFTER His Ascension into heaven. So any argument that “Christ-Jesus only had a God while He (Christ) was in human form” is baseless, i.e. it's a LIE.

The pagan ROMAN Catholic trinitarians claim that Jesus is God, when Christ clearly and repeatedly stated that Father (the "I AM") is HIS GOD.

God cannot have a "God" or He wouldn't be God, by definition.

BELIEVE CHRIST [the ONE God ANOINTED and appointed HEIR instead of these LIARS!
 






phipps

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Until Christ, no one had seen the Father. And he that seeth me, seeth Him who sent me. John 12:45
Jesus made it clear that no human being had ever seen or heard God the Father. From the beginning, in the garden of Eden, it was always Christ. However because Jesus and the Father are in unison in everything they do, we didn't really need to see or hear the Father. That is why He said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:9). They are separate persons though.
 






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Jesus made it clear that no human being had ever seen or heard God the Father. From the beginning, in the garden of Eden, it was always Christ. However because Jesus and the Father are in unison in everything they do, we didn't really need to see or hear the Father. That is why He said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:9). They are separate persons though.
Yes, but Scripture is not talking about what God looks like physically, but the nature of God. When we think of the Father, He is just like Christ in every nature and being. If you want to know what the Father is like....look at Christ...…. Hebrews Chapter 1
 






phipps

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@Douglas Summers

Yes, but Scripture is not talking about what God looks like physically, but the nature of God. When we think of the Father, He is just like Christ in every nature and being. If you want to know what the Father is like....look at Christ...…. Hebrews Chapter 1
I'm not talking about how God looks physically either. I'm talking about their nature too. Jesus' character reflects the Father's character perfectly in everything but they are separate persons according to the Bible.
 






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@Douglas Summers



I'm not talking about how God looks physically either. I'm talking about their nature too. Jesus' character reflects the Father's character perfectly in everything but they are separate persons according to the Bible.
I already agreed with that. I was just explaining it for other readers
 






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I like the part where you purposely left out a couple of verses in order to wordyour argument in the most deceitful yet typically faux christian way.

This is what you purposely left out

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—



even so...you are clueless on the mystical perspective vs the logical perspective.
'ye are gods' is coming from a mystical pantheistic view of the deity...
the mystical perspective is subjective/personal and not literally true.
Eg you can perceive of God's Immanence in a pile of shit..literally you can...
and hence Paul said 'to the pure all things are pure'

the literalist sadducee jewish rabbis didnt grasp the meaning..and so they pelted stones at Jesus..and were wrong.
you are also literalists and don't grasp the meaning, so you worship Jesus as God. Even though Jesus said 'the son can do nothing on his own'.
you already know Jesus said he doesnt know the last hour, yet you want to worship him as 'fully God' because you're so clueless.
 






A Freeman

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Not meaning to offend, or anything.
I am just curious.

Why is this important?
There a number of reasons why this is very important, beginning with the First Commandment.

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.

Attempting to turn Jesus, the human born of the virgin body of Mary, into God, or into part of some pagan 3=1 deity (the trinity), is breaking the First Commandment. It also makes a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice, a liar out of both Father (God) and Christ (Father's Firstborn Son), Whom Father sent, and would render the Bible a work of confusion, which is most certainly is not. God is NOT the author of confusion; Satan is (1 Cor. 14:33).

The very simple and straightforward relationships of all of Creation are explained in the Bible and are consistent from cover-to-cover.

Our Creator = our Heavenly Father = The King Ruler of the Universe = The INVISIBLE God, Whose Name is YHWH in Hebrew, or the “I AM” in English. Father can NEVER be a human, as He told us in no uncertain terms in His Law.

Numbers 23:19 God [is] NOT a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

Christ = Father's Firstborn Son and thus the Heir Apparent to the Throne. He is the Firstborn Son OF God. Christ is the Chief of the Archangels, the Commander of the Heavenly Host/Army (Lord of the Sabaoth), Whose Name in Heaven is Michael. Micha-El is Hebrew and means “Who is LIKE God?

Jesus = the Son of Man = the human body that Christ INCARNATED 2000 years ago.

Colossians 1:12-15 (about Christ)
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear SON:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE:

Just look at what “Christians” need to do with this passage in their attempt to make Jesus into God. They have to redefine ALL of the major terms in their attempt to twist its meaning.

A SON is the offspring of his father.

You can't INHERIT something that's already yours.

An IMAGE of something is a LIKENESS. When looking in the mirror, we see an image of the human body, but that is NOT the real thing; it's an image/likeness.

INVISIBLE is something that cannot be seen. Everyone who met Jesus saw Him.

FIRSTBORN means the first to be BORN. Being born is to be brought into existence.

A CREATURE is something that's been CREATED. There is no such thing as an uncreated creature.

And how could someone be a Mediator BETWEEN two parties (God and men – 1 Tim. 2:5) while being one of those parties themselves? It's impossible!

Are you starting to see how much confusion and how many outright LIES this one “little” thing – pretending that Jesus is God – really creates? And who started this obvious LIE (King of kings' BibleJohn 8:35, KJV – John 8:44)?

The REAL reason it's so important for “Christians” to pretend that Jesus is God is because that way, in their twisted minds, they don't have to keep The Law. They can tell themselves the LIE that “only Jesus could keep The Law because He is (supposedly) God and we are just habitual “sinners” (law-breakers, i.e. criminals), who don't have the power to break our bad habits" even though Christ said WITH God ALL things are possible.

It also reinforces the LIE that got all of us banished here to Earth (Rev. 12:7-9): that we can kill God, which is ridiculous.

Jesus referred to Himself over 80 times throughout the Gospel accounts as “the Son of Man” to leave NO DOUBT that He wasn't God.

Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, referred to Himself as the Son OF God at least 45 times. He NEVER claimed to be God and made it a point to tell us no less than 50 times throughout the Gospel accounts that He was SENT by Father (God). Christ was sent not to do Christ's own will, but Father's Will.

Further, the perpetuation of this obvious LIE that Jesus is God, has been the major stumbling block to bringing roughly two BILLION “Muslims” to Christ, because the “Muslims” at least understand that God is NOT some pagan, idolatrous Babylonian 3=1 deity. The King Ruler of the Universe doesn't get sent on errands.

Finally, and most importantly, anyone who continues to believe in LIES – particularly the LIE that Father doesn't want us to obey Him and His Law/Commandments, after everything Christ sacrificed on our behalf – WILL BURN (Mal. 4).

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.
 






A Freeman

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I like the part where you purposely left out a couple of verses in order to wordyour argument in the most deceitful yet typically faux christian way.

This is what you purposely left out

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—


even so...you are clueless on the mystical perspective vs the logical perspective.
'ye are gods' is coming from a mystical pantheistic view of the deity...
the mystical perspective is subjective/personal and not literally true.
Eg you can perceive of God's Immanence in a pile of shit..literally you can...
and hence Paul said 'to the pure all things are pure'

the literalist sadducee jewish rabbis didnt grasp the meaning..and so they pelted stones at Jesus..and were wrong.
you are also literalists and don't grasp the meaning, so you worship Jesus as God. Even though Jesus said 'the son can do nothing on his own'.
you already know Jesus said he doesnt know the last hour, yet you want to worship him as 'fully God' because you're so clueless.
Hopefully, this very simple quiz illustrates why the Spirit-Being Christ said through the mouth of Jesus "ye are gods". Like kind after like kind.

If a cat has a son, what is that son? Answer: A cat.

If a dog has a son, what is that son? Answer: A dog.

If a horse has a son, what is that son? Answer: A horse.

If a man has a son, what is that son? Answer: A man.

If God has a son, what is that son? Answer: A god.

A god = a spirit-Being = an angel = one of the sons of God = a Soul.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (Being) and in Truth.

We are all spirit-Beings/Souls ('gods") temporarily incarnating these human animal bodies, who have only forgotten our divinity, as Christ was pointing out. That's why Christ said we MUST be reborn from above, as our true spiritual selves, to even be able to "see" the Kingdom of Heaven much less be able to enter it (John 3:3-7).
 






Cintra

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Messages
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There a number of reasons why this is very important, beginning with the First Commandment.

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.

Attempting to turn Jesus, the human born of the virgin body of Mary, into God, or into part of some pagan 3=1 deity (the trinity), is breaking the First Commandment. It also makes a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice, a liar out of both Father (God) and Christ (Father's Firstborn Son), Whom Father sent, and would render the Bible a work of confusion, which is most certainly is not. God is NOT the author of confusion; Satan is (1 Cor. 14:33).

The very simple and straightforward relationships of all of Creation are explained in the Bible and are consistent from cover-to-cover.

Our Creator = our Heavenly Father = The King Ruler of the Universe = The INVISIBLE God, Whose Name is YHWH in Hebrew, or the “I AM” in English. Father can NEVER be a human, as He told us in no uncertain terms in His Law.

Numbers 23:19 God [is] NOT a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

Christ = Father's Firstborn Son and thus the Heir Apparent to the Throne. He is the Firstborn Son OF God. Christ is the Chief of the Archangels, the Commander of the Heavenly Host/Army (Lord of the Sabaoth), Whose Name in Heaven is Michael. Micha-El is Hebrew and means “Who is LIKE God?

Jesus = the Son of Man = the human body that Christ INCARNATED 2000 years ago.

Colossians 1:12-15 (about Christ)
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear SON:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE:

Just look at what “Christians” need to do with this passage in their attempt to make Jesus into God. They have to redefine ALL of the major terms in their attempt to twist its meaning.

A SON is the offspring of his father.

You can't INHERIT something that's already yours.

An IMAGE of something is a LIKENESS. When looking in the mirror, we see an image of the human body, but that is NOT the real thing; it's an image/likeness.

INVISIBLE is something that cannot be seen. Everyone who met Jesus saw Him.

FIRSTBORN means the first to be BORN. Being born is to be brought into existence.

A CREATURE is something that's been CREATED. There is no such thing as an uncreated creature.

And how could someone be a Mediator BETWEEN two parties (God and men – 1 Tim. 2:5) while being one of those parties themselves? It's impossible!

Are you starting to see how much confusion and how many outright LIES this one “little” thing – pretending that Jesus is God – really creates? And who started this obvious LIE (King of kings' BibleJohn 8:35, KJV – John 8:44)?

The REAL reason it's so important for “Christians” to pretend that Jesus is God is because that way, in their twisted minds, they don't have to keep The Law. They can tell themselves the LIE that “only Jesus could keep The Law because He is (supposedly) God and we are just habitual “sinners” (law-breakers, i.e. criminals), who don't have the power to break our bad habits" even though Christ said WITH God ALL things are possible.

It also reinforces the LIE that got all of us banished here to Earth (Rev. 12:7-9): that we can kill God, which is ridiculous.

Jesus referred to Himself over 80 times throughout the Gospel accounts as “the Son of Man” to leave NO DOUBT that He wasn't God.

Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, referred to Himself as the Son OF God at least 45 times. He NEVER claimed to be God and made it a point to tell us no less than 50 times throughout the Gospel accounts that He was SENT by Father (God). Christ was sent not to do Christ's own will, but Father's Will.

Further, the perpetuation of this obvious LIE that Jesus is God, has been the major stumbling block to bringing roughly two BILLION “Muslims” to Christ, because the “Muslims” at least understand that God is NOT some pagan, idolatrous Babylonian 3=1 deity. The King Ruler of the Universe doesn't get sent on errands.

Finally, and most importantly, anyone who continues to believe in LIES – particularly the LIE that Father doesn't want us to obey Him and His Law/Commandments, after everything Christ sacrificed on our behalf – WILL BURN (Mal. 4).

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.
Thank you for your reply.
I never realised there was controversy over this.

I think I was taught that there was only one god, but that he had three aspects.
And that as he was God, it was easy for him to do, but hard for us to understand.

That was an answer given to a child, so I wouldn't expect it to be very nuanced. But I never realised that it was at all controversial.

Thanks again for your reply.
 






TokiEl

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Further, the perpetuation of this obvious LIE that Jesus is God, has been the major stumbling block to bringing roughly two BILLION “Muslims” to Christ, because the “Muslims” at least understand that God is NOT some pagan, idolatrous Babylonian 3=1 deity. The King Ruler of the Universe doesn't get sent on errands.
No the lie that Jesus is not God has seen a fallen heavenly being insert himself as God or Allah in arabic with a following of almost 2 billion.

Jesus is God according to Himself and according to thousands of witnesses who have called on Him and been helped and healed.


You just don't understand the nature and composition of God.
 






A Freeman

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Messages
878
Thank you for your reply.
I never realised there was controversy over this.

I think I was taught that there was only one god, but that he had three aspects.
And that as he was God, it was easy for him to do, but hard for us to understand.

That was an answer given to a child, so I wouldn't expect it to be very nuanced. But I never realised that it was at all controversial.

Thanks again for your reply.
You're certainly welcome. Thank-you for yours. There couldn't be anything more confusing than the pagan trinity, with its pre-programmed cognitive dissonance, trying to redefine what the numbers 1, 2 and 3 mean, and what a father and son relationship is.
 






A Freeman

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Messages
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No the lie that Jesus is not God has seen a fallen heavenly being insert himself as God or Allah in arabic with a following of almost 2 billion.

Jesus is God according to Himself and according to thousands of witnesses who have called on Him and been helped and healed.


You just don't understand the nature and composition of God.
Why do you keep repeating that LIE? Trying to convince yourself of it perhaps?

Have you ever read the Koran please?
 






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