Jesus didn't claim to be God

[Lisa]

John 20:17, Revelation 3:12, 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 15:28 (along with many more others) are all verses of scripture. So, you can and you should be applying 2 Timothy 3:16 to all of those verses.

However, the trinity doctrine violates each and every one of those verses.

How then can it be Biblical, if it so clearly violates scripture? (I would suggest, don't be too quick to answer this with what you think you know. Look carefully at what the trinity doctrine states, and then look at those scriptures. The two things are NOT compatible.)

I’m sorry, I looked at all those verse and I have no idea how they violate the trinity and I have to admit it seems like you threw together random verses, for what, I have no idea? Maybe you can explain why you think the trinity violates all those verses?

 

[bible_student]

I’m sorry, I looked at all those verse and I have no idea how they violate the trinity and I have to admit it seems like you threw together random verses, for what, I have no idea? Maybe you can explain why you think the trinity violates all those verses?

The trinity doctrine claims that God The Father and Christ are "co-equal", while those verses all say that Christ Himself is subject to God The Father (Who Christ called the ONLY True God - his Father - John 17:3 and his God - John 20:17 & Rev. 3:12).

 

[floss]

Todd is a fallen reprobate, unfortunately. I believe he has lost his chance at true repentance unto salvation. His daily repentance of sins are unto the false gods or the A/C. Reason why he embraced UR because that is the only way he going to make it. I just pray he doesn't take anyone else with him. Lisa is correct, sorry Todd.

 

[Lisa]

The trinity doctrine claims that God The Father and Christ are "co-equal", while those verses all say that Christ Himself is subject to God The Father (Who Christ called the ONLY True God - his Father - John 17:3 and his God - John 20:17 & Rev. 3:12).

Everything is subject to the Father, even the Son. Doesn’t mean that He isn’t God or that He isn’t equally God and we know this because God tells us in Genesis..

GENESIS‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.”​

‭‭Sounds equal to me...also why we are baptized in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lisa]

I just pray he doesn't take anyone else with him.

Me too, floss!

 

[Todd]

Todd is a fallen reprobate, unfortunately.

As Indigo Montoya said: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

an unprincipled person (often used humorously or affectionately).
synonyms:rogue, rascal, scoundrel, good-for-nothing, villain, wretch, unprincipled person, rake, profligate, degenerate, debauchee, libertine;

You know nothing of my personal life to know whether I am unprincipled or any of the other synonyms listed in the definition.
What is your basis for this accusation?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On the question of the OP I think there are some logical points which are implications of Job 9 that require consideration:-

Job 9:25-35

25 “Now my days are swifter than a runner; They flee away, they see no good.
26 They pass by like swift ships, Like an eagle swooping on its prey.
27 If I say, ‘I will forget my complaint, I will put off my sad face and wear a smile,’
28 I am afraid of all my sufferings; I know that You will not hold me innocent.
29 If I am condemned, Why then do I labor in vain?
30 If I wash myself with snow water, And cleanse my hands with soap,
31 Yet You will plunge me into the pit, And my own clothes will abhor me.
32 “For He is not a man, as I am, That I may answer Him, And that we should go to court together.
33 Nor is there any mediator between us, Who may lay his hand on us both.
34 Let Him take His rod away from me, And do not let dread of Him terrify me.
35 Then I would speak and not fear Him, But it is not so with me.

To be a “mediator” means to be able to fully represent both parties in a dispute. The logical problem is that if Jesus is not God he must therefore be finite. If he is finite, he must be infinitely more limited than the Father and certainly unable to fully comprehend or represent Him?

 

[floss]

As Indigo Montoya said: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

an unprincipled person (often used humorously or affectionately).
synonyms:rogue, rascal, scoundrel, good-for-nothing, villain, wretch, unprincipled person, rake, profligate, degenerate, debauchee, libertine;

You know nothing of my personal life to know whether I am unprincipled or any of the other synonyms listed in the definition.
What is your basis for this accusation?

I'll let the Word of God speak for itself.

Jeremiah 6:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them.

2 Corinthians 13:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- Obviously Jesus cannot be IN YOU because "he's not God", thus you are a reprobate. Anyone who are truly saved know they have Jesus in them.

Titus 1:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

- This verse is written for people like you whom claim to "know God" but denied Jesus is THE LORD.

 

[bible_student]

Everything is subject to the Father, even the Son.

Amen. That is what Christ was telling everyone.

John
17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.
17:4 I have glorified Thee on the earth: I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] ONE God, and One mediator between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ;

Doesn’t mean that He isn’t God or that He isn’t equally God and we know this because God tells us in Genesis..

GENESIS‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭​

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.”​

‭‭Sounds equal to me...also why we are baptized in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

Christ also wanted people to know, that they themselves were not "only human" but that they are actually spiritual beings, just like Him and that the human animal body (that has to eat and get wrinkled and grow old and die, etc.) is NOT really them, but that it (the human body) is just a temporary vessel for the soul (which is the REAL you) and that the temporary human animal body is worthless.

8:26 Christ explained everything; about where he (and you) came from; and what you each have to do,
to go home. He explained that he was the soul, inside the “son of Mary”, and that he was zillions of
years old, when the body, that he was using, was less than 50 years old (John 1:15 & 8:57-58 / King of
kings’ Bible, John 8:48-49 & 17:24). He also explained that Mary was NOT his mother, and that her
body, only made the body, that he was using (John 6:42 & Matt. 12:47-50; 22:45 & Mark 3:31-35 &
Luke 8:19-21), but that she did NOT make him.
8:27 CHRIST explained that, not only was he NOT Jewish, but that he was not from this planet (John
7:34-36 & 8:23 / King of kings’ Bible, John 8:14; 17:14 & 18:36), and about the spirit, being spirit,
and the flesh, being flesh (John 3:6), and that the spirit is the ONLY thing which is important (John
6:63), and that the body is worthless.

- The Way home or face The Fire, By JAH.

 

[bible_student]

On the question of the OP I think there are some logical points which are implications of Job 9 that require consideration:-

Job 9:25-35

25 “Now my days are swifter than a runner; They flee away, they see no good.
26 They pass by like swift ships, Like an eagle swooping on its prey.
27 If I say, ‘I will forget my complaint, I will put off my sad face and wear a smile,’
28 I am afraid of all my sufferings; I know that You will not hold me innocent.
29 If I am condemned, Why then do I labor in vain?
30 If I wash myself with snow water, And cleanse my hands with soap,
31 Yet You will plunge me into the pit, And my own clothes will abhor me.
32 “For He is not a man, as I am, That I may answer Him, And that we should go to court together.
33 Nor is there any mediator between us, Who may lay his hand on us both.
34 Let Him take His rod away from me, And do not let dread of Him terrify me.
35 Then I would speak and not fear Him, But it is not so with me.

To be a “mediator” means to be able to fully represent both parties in a dispute. The logical problem is that if Jesus is not God he must therefore be finite. If he is finite, he must be infinitely more limited than the Father and certainly unable to fully comprehend or represent Him?

We were told, straight from heaven, that Christ is God's well beloved Son, in whom He is well pleased and to hear him.

That means Christ is our Teacher and Example of how to be, and that we have to learn from and follow Him, so that we may also become beloved sons & daughters.

Christ yielded his will to God completely, which is what it means to be meek.
Meekness (not weakness) means to have a yielded will, like Christ demonstrated to the entire world.

"The meek (not the weak) shall inherit the earth."

 

[bible_student]

Lucifer (Satan) on the other hand does not have a yielded will and wanted to be worshiped instead of God:

Matthew
4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve.

1:1 Thousands of Earth years ago, far away, in THIS galaxy, on the Morning Star (Rev. 2:28), the
Lord Guardian Of Divinity, King (Malachi 1:14), Ruler and Guardian of the Universe (Sura 23:86),
put down a revolution led by Lucifer (Iblis)(Rev. 12:7-9).
1:2 The Morning Star (Venus) is inhabited by immortal “Beings of Light” (Spirit/Energy), whose
civilization, based on “pure” love, is zillions of years old.
1:3 Lucifer; now known here on Earth as Satan (the Opposer) the Devil (the Liar/Slanderer)(RED
dragon/serpent - Rev. 12:3, 9) from which the word D/evil is derived; because of his selfish and
arrogant nature, wanted to over-throw the Lord and to take His place, so that he could rule, and
inflict his own selfish opinion and evil desires on the heavens. He encouraged and misled many of
the other inhabitants of the Morning Star; whom people on Earth know by the name Angels; to join
him and he then started a war, against God (Rev. 12:7 & Isaiah 14:13-14).

- The Way home or face The Fire, By JAH.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Lucifer (Satan) on the other hand does not have a yielded will and wanted to be worshiped instead of God:

Matthew
4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve.

1:1 Thousands of Earth years ago, far away, in THIS galaxy, on the Morning Star (Rev. 2:28), the
Lord Guardian Of Divinity, King (Malachi 1:14), Ruler and Guardian of the Universe (Sura 23:86),
put down a revolution led by Lucifer (Iblis)(Rev. 12:7-9).
1:2 The Morning Star (Venus) is inhabited by immortal “Beings of Light” (Spirit/Energy), whose
civilization, based on “pure” love, is zillions of years old.
1:3 Lucifer; now known here on Earth as Satan (the Opposer) the Devil (the Liar/Slanderer)(RED
dragon/serpent - Rev. 12:3, 9) from which the word D/evil is derived; because of his selfish and
arrogant nature, wanted to over-throw the Lord and to take His place, so that he could rule, and
inflict his own selfish opinion and evil desires on the heavens. He encouraged and misled many of
the other inhabitants of the Morning Star; whom people on Earth know by the name Angels; to join
him and he then started a war, against God (Rev. 12:7 & Isaiah 14:13-14).

- The Way home or face The Fire, By JAH.

Would you say that Jesus and Lucifer were qualitatively similar beings, the distinguishing difference being their willingness to yield to the Father? Just trying to understand you.

 

[Todd]

Jeremiah 6:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them.

22Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth.
23They shall lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel, and have no mercy; their voice roareth like the sea; and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion.
24We have heard the fame thereof: our hands wax feeble: anguish hath taken hold of us, and pain, as of a woman in travail.
25Go not forth into the field, nor walk by the way; for the sword of the enemy and fear is on every side.
26O daughter of my people, gird thee with sackcloth, and wallow thyself in ashes: make thee mourning, as for an only son, most bitter lamentation: for the spoiler shall suddenly come upon us.
27I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way.
28They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
29The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
30Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them

Please do tell how this applies to me, or how you think I fit the description of the great nation that comes from the North?

2 Corinthians 13:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- Obviously Jesus cannot be IN YOU because "he's not God", thus you are a reprobate. Anyone who are truly saved know they have Jesus in them.

Why is that obvious? I believe Christ lives in me, because the Bible says he lives in all believers.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

This verse is speaking about Jesus being made a quickening or life-giving spirit. Yet Paul never calls Jesus God in the verse but specifically refers to him as a man. So with God, it is obviously possible for a man to become a life-giving spirit and reside in all believers. I beleive what the bible says, nothing more, nothing less. Your carnal reasoning has concluded that Jesus must be God if he lives in you and every other believer. But there is no actual support in the bible for that claim.

Titus 1:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

- This verse is written for people like you whom claim to "know God" but denied Jesus is THE LORD.

I have never denied Jesus is Lord. Again another instance of your faultly english translation leading to believe that the title Lord is synonomous with being God.

Acts 2:22,36
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Anyways, you have yet to show me biblical grounds for accusing me of being reprobate, as it is obvious you don't even know what the word means.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If you truly want to understand him, then save yourself all these hours of endlessly debating him and simply read: http://thewayhomeorfacethefire.net/twh.pdf

I'm dyslexic and I breezed through it, I assume you'll have no problem

I’m just interested in the way he views the relationship between Jesus and Lucifer, I.e:-

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1986/06/i-have-a-question/how-can-jesus-and-lucifer-be-spirit-brothers-when-their-characters-and-purposes-are-so-utterly-opposed?lang=eng

 

[Helioform]

Jesus is an archangel, more precisely known as Michael in various verses. The JWs believe this and it is supported by scripture..

"Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role."

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel-jesus/

Anyone care to discuss this? Without the usual response from the gotquestions website if possible.

 

[Todd]

Jesus is an archangel, more precisely known as Michael in various verses. The JWs believe this and it is supported by scripture..

"Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41;16:27;24:31;1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role."

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel-jesus/

Anyone care to discuss this? Without the usual response from the gotquestions website if possible.

I have contemplated this idea in the past and it certainly seems to have some biblical basis. I just don't think it's all that important or necessary to understand or accept. One thing that hangs me up is that it neccesitates the notion that Jesus was pre-existant to his conception in Mary's womb. I don't see biblical support for the idea that Jesus was pre-existant. Only the man-made doctrine of the trinity requires a presupposition that Jesus was pre-existant. The idea, plan and purpose of Jesus existed in the mind of God before the foundations of the world, but that is not the same thing.

My alternative theory, but just a theory, is that your presupposition that there is only one archangel is correct, but that Jesus supplanted or was elevated to the postion of archangel when he ascended to heaven post resurrection. This would fit with the statement by Peter that because of his obedience God raised up Jesus and made him (implying that he didn't pre-exist as) Lord and Christ. It could be that along with his "promotion" to Lord and Christ he also supplanted Michael as the archangel. Just a theory and certainly not a critical point of doctrine or theology.

Paul also indicates in Hebrews 2 that God made Jesus lower than the angels for the suffering of death, but then elevates and glorifies Jesus and puts everything under subjection to him, which of course would include the angels and Michael himself. Again just a thought and not something that is crucial to my faith.

 

[Lisa]

Amen. That is what Christ was telling everyone.

You cut out the rest of what I said...I was not agreeing with you but starting that God the Father and God the Son were indeed equal.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

Christ also wanted people to know, that they themselves were not "only human" but that they are actually spiritual beings, just like Him and that the human animal body (that has to eat and get wrinkled and grow old and die, etc.) is NOT really them, but that it (the human body) is just a temporary vessel for the soul (which is the REAL you) and that the temporary human animal body is worthless.

8:26 Christ explained everything; about where he (and you) came from; and what you each have to do,
to go home. He explained that he was the soul, inside the “son of Mary”, and that he was zillions of
years old, when the body, that he was using, was less than 50 years old (John 1:15 & 8:57-58 / King of
kings’ Bible, John 8:48-49 & 17:24). He also explained that Mary was NOT his mother, and that her
body, only made the body, that he was using (John 6:42 & Matt. 12:47-50; 22:45 & Mark 3:31-35 &
Luke 8:19-21), but that she did NOT make him.
8:27 CHRIST explained that, not only was he NOT Jewish, but that he was not from this planet (John
7:34-36 & 8:23 / King of kings’ Bible, John 8:14; 17:14 & 18:36), and about the spirit, being spirit,
and the flesh, being flesh (John 3:6), and that the spirit is the ONLY thing which is important (John
6:63), and that the body is worthless.

- The Way home or face The Fire, By JAH.

If that’s what you’ve been reading...no wonder you don’t have it straight...that’s a bunch of baloney. God created humans and they are not just like Him. We were made in his image like the Bible says but we are not God.

Nothing God makes is worthless not even the body that withers and dies and goes back to the dust of the earth. Its actually a marvel and quite awesome our bodies. With eyes we can see the splendor of the earth, see how wonderfully made we all are. We can feel with our bodies, touch one another feel the others warmth or with me, cold hands, haha! We can run, walk, dance. We can drive cars, work on computers and machinery. We can hear the sounds of the wind rustling in the trees, our children talking to us, our spouse whispering I love you. Our bodies are so awesome in that our hearts beat on their own, we don’t have to remember to take a breath or blink. Our bodies get to work getting us well when we get sick and heal our cuts and mend broken bones...Our bodies are fearfully and wonderfully made. Our bodies are so incredible in that I’ve only mentioned a very few things about our body, even doctors don’t know everything about our bodies. One must go to different specialists and even then they don’t have all the answers!

 

[Helioform]

I have contemplated this idea in the past and it certainly seems to have some biblical basis. I just don't think it's all that important or necessary to understand or accept. One thing that hangs me up is that it neccesitates the notion that Jesus was pre-existant to his conception in Mary's womb. I don't see biblical support for the idea that Jesus was pre-existant. Only the man-made doctrine of the trinity requires a presupposition that Jesus was pre-existant. The idea, plan and purpose of Jesus existed in the mind of God before the foundations of the world, but that is not the same thing.

My alternative theory, but just a theory, is that your presupposition that there is only one archangel is correct, but that Jesus supplanted or was elevated to the postion of archangel when he ascended to heaven post resurrection. This would fit with the statement by Peter that because of his obedience God raised up Jesus and made him (implying that he didn't pre-exist as) Lord and Christ. It could be that along with his "promotion" to Lord and Christ he also supplanted Michael as the archangel. Just a theory and certainly not a critical point of doctrine or theology.

Paul also indicates in Hebrews 2 that God made Jesus lower than the angels for the suffering of death, but then elevates and glorifies Jesus and puts everything under subjection to him, which of course would include the angels and Michael himself. Again just a thought and not something that is crucial to my faith.

I think that this concept is better understood if you realize that time is not linear. There is Biblical and Gnostic/Hindu basis also for humans being a time shifted version of what we call Angels. Jesus simply had his angelic essence incarnate in a human body. Hinduism mentions Avatars who were divine and were able to "become" human because humans have divine DNA that later got corrupted. Jesus always was the same Archangel, his human DNA was just "purer."
He was the first born according to the Bible also so he cannot be God, he is a created being.

 

[TramontateStelle]

John 14:5-10 King James Version (KJV)

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[bible_student]

You cut out the rest of what I said...I was not agreeing with you but starting that God the Father and God the Son were indeed equal.

I know, but I took the opportunity/liberty to quickly interject that thought before continuing to quote the rest of what you said.

If that’s what you’ve been reading...no wonder you don’t have it straight...that’s a bunch of baloney. God created humans and they are not just like Him. We were made in his image like the Bible says but we are not God.

Nothing God makes is worthless not even the body that withers and dies and goes back to the dust of the earth. Its actually a marvel and quite awesome our bodies. With eyes we can see the splendor of the earth, see how wonderfully made we all are. We can feel with our bodies, touch one another feel the others warmth or with me, cold hands, haha! We can run, walk, dance. We can drive cars, work on computers and machinery. We can hear the sounds of the wind rustling in the trees, our children talking to us, our spouse whispering I love you. Our bodies are so awesome in that our hearts beat on their own, we don’t have to remember to take a breath or blink. Our bodies get to work getting us well when we get sick and heal our cuts and mend broken bones...Our bodies are fearfully and wonderfully made. Our bodies are so incredible in that I’ve only mentioned a very few things about our body, even doctors don’t know everything about our bodies. One must go to different specialists and even then they don’t have all the answers!

Yes, these bodies we have are wonderfully made, yet at the same time, when compared to the real you (your soul) then the body is worthless. Jesus made this comparison:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the Words (Truth) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are Life.

As another writer once put it:

"...The human body, wonderful as it is, is in reality the evidence of man's disobedience. It is unsanctified flesh, diminished in Spirit; "dead" in sin. The result of Satanic power, it is the medium through which he acts. The carnal man is at enmity with God - Romans 8:7-9*..." - THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY, MARRIAGE GUIDANCE

It is also good to think about the fact that God has gone to all this trouble to save our souls, so, the body, as wonderful as it may be, is just temporary and comparatively worthless in that context. And also, we all know that these bodies have quite a few things about them, that are also not always so wonderful.. (aging, etc.) that remind us that this place (as beautiful as the natural world around us is) is not really where we belong and that this (fallen) state we are existing in now, is not our true natural state.