As if it was 8-day old baby Jesus who told Mary and Joseph to not forget about the Law of Moses and take Him to His cricumcision and then sacrifice an animal or two. It were the customs of His parents who were under Mosaic Law, therefore Jesus was under Mosaic Law. The weakness of this argument says a great deal.
So you think the god of your invention is going to send the One True God as His Son purposefully enslaved into Satans System of Sacrifice? That is what your illogic always contends, and then the One True Gods Son is going to follow said Satanic System Himself and die in a manner that Satan set up?
That would be like having actual Satanists like todays Satanists, have a set of rules to worship Satan like IDK kidnapping and raping children and then say that the God of Gods is sending His Son to participate in that activity. Its insanity is what that is and is definitely not at all what the One True God would do, send His Son to follow the Laws that Satan Himself set out for his worship.
But I just picked one example, another is one that has already been mentioned but for some reason you and other who are AntiChrist have ignored in trying to argue this nonsense about Jesus being a Vegan.
What Holy Day unto Satan in your world view, was Jesus fully engaged in and then LEAD His Disciples to engage in?
Matt 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
Jesus 100% kept the Passover and He lead His Disciples to keep the Passover, seems completely rediculous to have Jesus out here leading His Disciples to keep a Holy Day in Honor of Satan dont you think?
Or who is Jesus Lord of according to Himself? He is the Lord of the Day created by the same God who Moses worshiped that was to be set apart to honor Him, the Sabbath. Why would Jesus call Himself Lord of the Sabbath if He was actually against the Sabbath? Wouldnt He be out here telling others that the God of the Sabbath is Satan and not to ever follow or keep it?
That IS what He would do if Satan was the one who created the Sabbath Day, but since Jesus IS the Son of the God, in fact since Jesus Himself created the Sabbath, He followed the Sabbath and then declared that He Himself is the Lord or the One who is over the Sabbath. That statement alone was stated to SHOW the Phariesses that He was indeed God Himself, the one that created the Sabbath.
And I also noticed your argument about Jesus breaking the Sabbath, did He break the actual Law of Moses or did He break the Tradition of the Pharisees which is recorded in the Talmud?
Here is where Jesus declares He is the God of the Sabbath, and their reaction, show me where He actually broke the Law of Moses and then please cite said Law in the Old Testament.
Luke 13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.
So what Law of Moses did Jesus break here, cite chapter and verse please. Are you going to believe the Pharisees that He broke the Law of Moses about healing conflating that with Work or are you going to listen to Jesus who knew the Law perfectly, because He created it, when He said that they or anyone can help an animal that is hurt on the Sabbath and it not be considered breaking the Sabbath or Work, therefore since He was only helping a person on the Sabbath by healing them, it is in fact NOT actually Work.
Also let me ask you this, what where the Priests doing on the Sabbath? Do you know? They were working, they were involved in all the Temple Services needed on the Sabbath day, such as Sacrifice, eating, keeping the fires going ect.
Do you realize that the Law never condemned them for Working on the Sabbath day? Why? Because they were in the midst of Work for God. What exactly do you think Jesus was doing when He healed this woman? He was doing "work" for Gods glory, or do you not pick this up in the text?
Either way you look at it, Jesus didnt actually break the Sabbath Law, He first off didnt do anything condemned or was considered real work as told not to do on the Sabbath, and second what He did do, was in Service of the Lord, hence ya know at the end where the woman glorified God and the people rejoiced.
The other time He was accused of doing something unlawful on the Sabbath, again Jesus schooled the person because they truly didnt understand the point of the Sabbath and added all sorts of extra things to the Law itself. Here is the other time and what Jesus said:
Matt 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
So do you really understand what Jesus is displaying here? Did He really do something that truly broke the Law of Moses? Again cite me chapter and verse of what Law Jesus broke.
And how does Jesus respond? He cites David, which makes no sense if Jesus is here to reject the God of Abraham that created the Law of Moses and Sacrificial System, because David loved the God of Abraham and followed the Sacrificial System. In fact it was David who asked God if he could build Him a Temple, but that God told him that his son Solomon would be the one that would actually build the Temple that Jesus would come and teach in and bring His own Sacrifices too.
Anyhow, as illogical as it is for Jesus to be out here citing David if He was coming to be the Anti-Thesis to the God of the Old Testament, do you grasp what Jesus was saying to them here? He is comparing Himself to David, then compared His Disciples to the men David was leading then here is the main thing brother, He compared the shewbread which was made in honor of the God of the Old Testament, to the corn they ate, then He follows it up by saying He is the Lord of the Sabbath.
He proclaimed that if David was able to eat when needed and lead his people to eat when needed, even of the shewbread, and NOT be in violation of the Law because the High Priest ordained it, then Jesus who is ABOVE the High Priest, being the Lord of the Sabbath, and being more Righteous and Perfect than David had the authority to lead His Disciples to eat and they nor He was in actual violation of the Law.
Further more by comparing the Shewbread to the Corn He also in essences declaring a secondary way that He is God, because He has contexted the Natural Corn which would be created by God, to the Corn He was eating. In otherwords since Jesus Created the Corn it was to Him shewbread, because it was made in use for God.
All in all Jesus in multiple ways declared that He is God and not only God but the God of the Old Testament, the Creator God, who of course in your made up Religion is not the One True God. Jesus over and over again compares and equates Himself to the God of the Old Testament, who created the Sacrificial System you so despise. On top of that of course He showed that He was not in fact in violation of the Law.
Futhermore the real question would be why on Earth would Jesus care in one bit at all about trying to defend Himself against accusations of breaking the Sabbath Law if He never followed it or care about it or was against the God that created it?
That of course is the real deeper question I would love to hear you address, why is Jesus always defending Himself against the accusations of the Pharisees of breaking the Law of Moses, if He never wanted to or claimed to follow or cared about it?
Why wasnt Jesus just out here saying, you are right I am in violation of the Sabbath, because I dont follow it, I dont care about any of these Holy Days or Laws because they are created by Satan and I am here to destroy it all.
Yet never once do we see Jesus do anything remotely close to that do we? Nope not at all, instead we see Him continually adhering to the Law of Moses, celebrating Feasts created to Honor the God of the Old Testament, of which Holy Days ALL include Sacrificing Animals. Also we see Him defending Himself against accusations that He has broken the Law of Moses, do you think in the LEAST BIT that the Gentiles in Israel gave one crap about following the Law of Moses? Nope not one little crap, and if Jesus was the man you make Him out to be, then He too would not have given one crap about defending Himself from the Pharisees accusations, He would have told them straight up, you worship Satan in a Temple created for Satan, and follow Laws given by Satan, I am here to end it all!!!
Here is what Jesus actually says about the Law of Moses:
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus said He came NOT to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, along with the Prophets, why on Earth would Jesus make this statement if the Law and the Prophets were of Satan? Why would Jesus say He is coming to FULFILL the Law and Prophets of Satan?
That makes no sense, if Jesus was against the God of the Old Testament that created the Law and the Prophets Jesus quotes here are His Prophets, then why would Jesus EVER declare He was there to follow them and fulfill what they wanted? That is so illogical it is beyond comprehension, but here you are trying to make that case right Art?
If Jesus was against the God that made the Law He would have declared right here, I have come to do away with the Law, it needs to be destroyed and it shall not stand any longer!!!
Here is what Jesus says of the Temple, which in your Anti Christ Religion would HAVE to have been built to Honor and Sacrifice to Satan:
John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise
That house wasnt the house of Satan, it is the house of the one Jesus calls Father, so again you have a massive logical conundrum here. The Temple that Jesus was standing it was without a doubt created for one sole purpose to Worship and Honor the God of the Old Testament, and in that Temple it was commanded by that same God to carry out the Sacrifices you so hate, however Jesus walks into that specific Temple and says that that Temple is HIS FATHERS HOUSE. He clearly and definitively links Himself to worshiping, following and honoring the God of the Old Testament, the God in which ordained that Temple and was worshiped for eons within.
I doubt you'd be unfamiliar with the context of the Epistle to the Hebrews. All the more reason I wonder why you don't provide that context in your reasoning. This is the most Judaizing (Judaizing in the sense of "legitimizing the old law") text in the Gospels because it was written to the Hebrews who had become doubtful about Jesus being the Messiah. Its purpose is to convince them that Jesus' is the fulfillment of the Hebrew scriptures; that He is greater than Moses; that His new covenant supersedes the old; and to prevent the Hebrews from leaving the church and going back to their synagogues (and thus their old rituals). Even the most old-testamentary scripture of the New Testament tells us that the sacrificial system is over (no concessions are given here) and that the Mosaic Covenant, which according to the Hebrew scriptures was supposed to be eternal, is finished. This epistle is a genuine piece of proselytizing scripture portraying Jesus as a fulfiller of prophecy, not a destroyer, while in reality, their results are exactly the same, ie. the sacrificial system had come to an end.
Framing it as a fulfillment was the means by which the Hebrews were converted.
And yet not one word in your response negate the actual fact that Jesus came and did exactly what is laid out in those Scriptures. He DID fulfill it, of which I just quoted you Jesus Himself saying He was going to do.
Are you seriously this dense to think that all of the Symbolism we see in the New Testament that cites Old Testament ideas, symbols, fulfillment, are all written to mislead everyone concerning who Jesus was? Do you realize how utterly impossible that would be? Jesus has fulfilled 100's if not 1000's of Prophecies written by the Prophets of the Old Testament who all without a doubt Worshiped the God of Israel who created the Sacrificial System, of which all those Prophets actually followed those Laws. The details in which Christ fulfilled these things are absolutely impossible for man to dream up, then write down.
I mean look at the actual feast of the Passover, it all down to every little detail points to Jesus Christ. I am going to list just a few of the tiny little details that Christ fulfilled that are foreshadowed in the Passover Feast, in other words when you see these tiny details and look at the Life of Jesus Christ you will have to be willfully ignorant to think that Jesus DIDNT come purposefully to BE the Sacrifice Lamb which the Passover revolved around. In other words if you see these details and fulfillments and still believe that people made this up to "Judaize" or whatever other nonsense you care to state, then you are purposefully and willfully ignorant of the facts that no human in history could have written the Old Testament, then created a Feast that was practiced in a specific way for thousands of years, then create and make up a man Jesus and have that creation actually fulfill these things down to tiny little details in hopes of "Judizing" Him... Only by Him actually being and doing these things and then by He Himself revealing them to His Disiciples could anyone ever understand these things, and that is exactly what He did and does today via the Holy Spirit.
Here is what I mean:
The Lamb chosen for Passover Lamb was chosen 5 days before the Passover
Jesus came into the City to Proclaim Himself and His Ministry 5 days before He was Sacrificed, on the Passover
At 3pm on Passover the Priest would blow the Shophar, the moment that the Sacrifice was made, so that the people could contemplate their Sins.
Jesus died @ 3pm on Passover saying "It is finished" and Shophar was blown, at the same time the Veil of the Temple was torn symbolizing that the God of that Temple was no longer restricted to inside the Holiest of Holies.
50 days later after Passover is the Anniversary of the Giving of the Law
50 days later was Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out on men showing that the God of the Temple in Israel, had left that Temple and now was taking up and residing in those who believe in Jesus Christ.
During the Passover dinner called the Seder (which Jesus took part of as recorded in Scripture) there are 3 matzahs or unleavened bread (because Passover is the beginning of the Festival of Unleavened Bread which again all parts of that symbolize Christ as well) in a line which symbolize the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
The Middle One is BROKEN, then WRAPPED IN A WHITE CLOTH, and then HIDDEN.
Jesus who says He is the Bread of Life and then specifically used THIS Dinner to say:
Matt 28:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Jesus body was BROKEN, then it was what?
Matt 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
It was wrapped in a WHITE CLOTH, and then what?
Matt 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
It was HIDDEN, just like the Matzah...
The Matzah itself even represents Jesus Christ, the baked Unleavened piece of Bread, all of it Old Testament Symbolism that is FULFILLED in Christ Jesus.
First it is UNLEAVENED which Leaven is a Symbol of Sin, so we see that since Jesus is the Middle Matzah, it also symbolized that Jesus would be Sinless.
Second the Matzah is striped which again fulfills the Symbolism and reality of Christ in Scriptures and then before going to the cross itself:
Is 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
John 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
The Matzah is also pierced, again fulfilling the Symbolism and reality of Christ in Scripture and what happened to Him on the Cross:
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Here is a picture of the Matzah so you can see that it indeed has stripes and has been pierced:
After the Seder meal the Matzah that was broken, wrapped in white cloth and hidden aka buried is brought back from its hiding place, aka it is Resurrected.
Jesus after He was broken for our Sins, took upon Himself Stripes for our Healing and was Pierced for our Transgression was then taken and wrapped in a Linen White Cloth and hidden in a Tomb, on the 3rd Day He was brought back from His hiding place in the Tomb, He was Resurrected.
And that is only SOME of the tiny little details of the Passover Dinner that 100% show Jesus Life, Death and Resurrection. The Passover itself was created by the God of the Old Testament who you call the Devil, the Traditions and the method of how they ate the Seder was put in place by the God of the Old Testament, who you call the Devil, and yet we can see clearly that every little aspect of that Holy Day, from the way the Lamb was chosen and when, to the day it was offered and what for, to the fact that the Blood of that Lamb was applied on the doors of Israel so that Death would PASSOVER them, to the bread they ate and the way the bread LOOKS, to the method of having 3 of them, one broken hidden and then brought back, all of it Jesus Christ came did EXACTLY the same thing and ON THE SAME DAY!!!
Yet you want me and others to believe this type of thing was made up by men? No one in all of History could ever possibly make these kind of connections and then have a man LITERALLY come and do these exact things!!!!
Jesus was Sinless, dont even YOU believe that? (Unleavened Bread)
Jesus is part of the Trinity, dont even YOU believe that? ( 3 Matazah)
Jesus body was Broken for our healing, dont even YOU believe that? ( Middle Matzah broken)
Jesus was pierced and beaten, dont even YOU believe that? ( Stripes and Pierced Matzah, they literally take a toothpick and pierce it)
Jesus was wrapped in White Linen for His Burial, dont even YOU believe that? (Matzah wrapped in White Cloth)
Jesus was hidden in a tomb, dont even YOU believe that? (Matzah hidden)
Jesus resurrected on the 3rd day, dont even YOU believe that? (Matzah brought back out after dinner)
I think if you are honest you are going to have to say that you believe all of these things, and it is not someone Judazing Jesus Christ, it is the FACT that Jesus is the Son of the God of the Old Testament, who SPECIFICALLY created Holy Days and Feast that were ALL supposed to point to Jesus Christ so that Israel would accept and believe on Him when He came!!!
So while I did use Hebrews because it shows us in Scirpture the most clear picture, I definitely do not need to quote Hebrews, I can simply show you Jesus in EVERY SINGLE HOLY DAY that the God of the Old Testament created, why? Because THAT God who you call the Devil PURPOSEFULLY created all these Holy Days to signify and show who and what the Christ was coming to do and why.
So if you really need more Scripture I am happy to cite more New Testament Scriptures that all say that Jesus came and fulfilled the Old Testament and was the Lamb of God sent to take Sins upon Himself (like the Sacrifices in the Old Testment did) and gave Himself as Sacrifice so that His Blood would cover us and Death would Passover us (like the Lamb Sacrificed on the Passover did for Israel)
Or if that isnt good enough I can literally take every single Holy Day that Israel celebrated and do what I did for Passover, show exactly how all of them SINGNIFY THE LIFE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, which of course makes absolutely no sense if the God that created all of them was the Devil.
What you cant do is give a logical answer as to how all of this exists, or why every single New Testament Write especially Paul continually quoted from the Old Testament and constantly identifies Jesus as the Son of the Old Testament God.
Your only response is MeHeH CoNsPiRaCy JuDiAzeRs!!! Absolutely illogical logic which of course you will never truly try and sit ponder and try and rationalize because it causes wayy too much Cognitive Dissonance because we both know that if what I have said is True then you would HAVE to reject your made up Religion and actually accept the Fact that the Old Testament God is the God which Jesus calls Father, like you know when He declared in the Temple to the Old Testament God, that it is HIS FATHERS HOUSE...
Hebrews 9
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Well you ought to quote what I quoted:
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
What exactly would you personally like me to mediate on? What exactly are you pointing this specific Scripture out for, in hopes of making a case for your point?
I fully understand exactly what that is saying, you however dont even grasp that you are acknowledging the usefulness of the Sacrifices under the Law of Moses, I mean you do get that if you want to use this verse to make any point, you are validating it, and then by validating it you must also accept that the blood of bulls and goats PURIFIED THE FLESH.
How could an act of Worship to Satan EVER purify anything at all? And of course it is always good to keep in context of the whole thing which is to show that the Law DID make Atonement or push forward peoples Sins, UNTIL Christ could come and TRULY take away all of our Sins forever.
But please since you do acknowledge that the Sacrifices of the Old Testament sanctified them and purified them, tell me in detail what point you are hoping to accentuate with this verse...
I will wait...
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Lamb of God, without blemish and spot huh? Wonder Peter said it like that?
Ex 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
Oh thats right, the Passover Lamb that was Sacrificed so that Death would Passover them, commanded by the God of the Old Testament, had to be without blemish, wow...
And when exactly was this plan for Jesus to come give His Life as a Lamb without blemish to make Death Passover us laid out? Oh thats right by God BEFORE He created the World, but the god you believe in really didnt create this World now did he? Nope lets be honest your god is weak and stupid and has retarded kids who you claim is the God of this Creation. However Peter says the God of Creation is the God who foreordained for Christ to come and die for our Sins.
Just Judaizing huh? Thats your reasoning for why Peter proclaims all of this? Flies in the face of Gnosticism for sure, tell me did your boy Marcion include 1 Peter, written by the first person to Preach the Gospel in the Power and Spirit after Pentecost in his made up Canon? Oh thats right he didnt, wonder why lol
He did however include this, but I am sure if we had his butcherd version he would have cut this right out, cuz you know Paul believes that Jesus is the Son of the Old Testament God, without a doubt..
1 Corth 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Wait is that Paul calling Jesus our Passover Lamb? Is He actually connecting the Passover, that brutal Holy Day that Satan created, to Jesus Christ and calling Jesus the actual fulfillment of a Satanic Holy Day?
I can literally do this all day long, showing everyone that absolute insanity of your proclamation, and you have never and will never have any real way to explain away logically what I have written the only response is BuT ThEsE CoNsPiRaCy JuDiAzeRs!!
Wake up brother, repent of calling the Father of you and the Father of Jesus Satan, and acknowledge that the One True God, which Israel Worshiped PROPERLY in the Temple, laid out the Law of Moses and all the Holy Days, for the purpose of Foreshadowing of His Son Jesus Christ, and what His Life, Death and Resurrection would be and do. If you do that and believe on Christ then you can be Born Again, you will have the Holy Spirit and then you will see what every Saved person comes to see in ALL the Scriptures and you wont need to rip up and tear apart Gods Word, hoping to make it conform to your made up Religion...
I hope one day you come to your sense brother because I see how intelligent you are, but at the moment you are without a doubt a Wolf in Sheeps clothing, you make yourself out to be a Christian, and new Christians or others who havent been here for years may not discern the fact that you reject the God and Christ of Scriptures and you may influence them down the wrong path.
If only you come to the Truth you could be used by the One True God to preach the True Gospel, I hope one day you do that..
Anyhow, I wait for you to address any of the points I have brought up, maybe you will..