Forever Light
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- Oct 10, 2017
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I very strongly believe, that if people would be willing to study the new King of kings' Bible Translation, then most if not all disputes would be almost instantly solved and any perceived differences would quickly begin to disappear.The narrative is that the caananites became deeply sinful and so had to be removed and that's part of why God chose Israel to remove them.
Moses right to David and Solomon engaged in wars against them so you have a line of prophets engaging in this 'ethnic cleansing'.
Forget all of those narratives for a moment
the Quran itself clearly speaks in the present tense and confirms the Torah as 'a guidance and light'.
The prophet SAW held the Torah in his hands, placed it on a cushion and said 'I believe in you'
the tampering of the Torah argument occurs because Ezra the scribe had to rewrite the torah, but if the torah was indeed not authentic after that, why did these prophets come at later times and not confirm that? inc Jesus?
Abu Hurairah r.a. says that the Jews used to read the Torah in Hebrew and interpret it in Arabic for Muslims, whereupon the Prophet s.a.w. instructed: “Don’t endorse the statements of the people of scripture nor reject them”
(Sahih Bukhari, Kitab Al-Tafsir, Hadith No. 4485)
Abdullah Bin Amr B Al-As says that the Prophet s.a.w. said: “Convey to others wha I say even though one message. And report from the Bani israel, there is no problem in it. But beware that one who attributes something wrongly to me will certainly get his abode in the hell-fire.”
(Sahih Bukhari, Kitab Al-Anbiya, Hadith No. 3461)
Jabir Bin Abdullah reports that once Umar Bin al-Khattab read a book, which he had received from a Jew, to the Prophet who got angry and said: “O the son of al-Khattab, ar you embarrased? By the One in whose hands is my life, I have brought to you something which is pure and immaculate. Don’t ask them(the Jews) anything. There is a possibility that they tell you the truth and you refute it, or they tell you the false and you confirm it. By the One in whose hands is my life, even if Musa were alive today he would have followed me.”
(Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Hadith no. 4736)
in hadith, the verse of stoning are called 'the divine verse' and similar to that the prophet SAW showed respect to the Torah (as mentioned) and above the only suggestion is that the interpretations/translations were the problem.
That's my argument against muslims, that our own translators/interpretors have done the same thing. Yet in that hadith the prophet SAW even says
"But beware that one who attributes something wrongly to me will certainly get his abode in the hell-fire."
so how much worse is it when they purposely alter the meaning of the Quran in the english language?
i literally mean some of these translators literally changed words to give it a different meaning knowingly..and you can only know they did it knowingly if you're familir with the theme and understand their reasoning.
For example, in the hebrew language we know that Lord (adoni) and THE Lord (adonai) are not equal. hence Jesus as 'Adoni/lord' does not make him God, you with me so far?
Years ago i brought this up with muslims, arguing that the term 'lord' in the context was not shirk, to which they said it was
but in arabic the word for lord is rabb and there is only one use for this word, we refer to Allah only as rabb.
When i made this argument, one of the 'brothers' on the forum decided to not engage me in a fair debate and told me
"bring your proofs from Quran/hadith, i do not care about other books"
You know what actually happened? i swear this is true
I had no prior research and just read the Quran at random for some perspective
it was one of those times where i was new to this form of argument and i was pretty upset tbh...moreso at the ego from my own kind (muslims)
i stumbled upon this verse
Surah 12 verse 23
diff translations yet again differ
And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him. She closed the doors and said, "Come, you." He said, "[I seek] the refuge of Allah. Indeed, he is my master, who has made good my residence. Indeed, wrongdoers will not succeed."
And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him (to do an evil act), and she closed the doors and said: "Come on, O you." He said: "I seek refuge in Allah (or Allah forbid)! Truly, he (your husband) is my master! He made my living in a great comfort! (So I will never betray him). Verily, the Zalimun (wrong and evil-doers) will never be successful."
the first translation posted, it implies that Allah is his master and the second one implies the head of the house was his master.
The word for master is Sayyid.....and the word in arabic used here was 'rabb' because in the context Yusuf AS would have been referring to his 'adoni' (though i dont even know whqat language he spoke at that time)
Warawadathu allatee huwa fee baytiha AAan nafsihi waghallaqati alabwaba waqalat hayta laka qala maAAatha Allahi innahu rabbee ahsana mathwaya innahu la yuflihu alththalimoona
The point im making here is yet again that subtle meanings are so deep in the Quran and their relation to the contents in the bible
what a muslim translator/interpretor could do is read the word 'rabb' in the context and figure 'it is dangerous for me to literally write 'lord' so i'll use master instead but i'll also change the meaning to imply Yusuf AS was referring to Allah Himself and not the master of the house.....
Basically if you dwell on these topics and you notice little ways where muslim translators have altered a meaning...this is no different to what the prophet SAW said about the jews.
Why in one form do you more or less reject the Torah but not do the same with the Quran? im assuming it's because the arabic has not changed and that is a very obvious plus point about the Quran...but what the Torah has in it's favour is universal confirmation
it's been confirmed in the Quran, by prophet SAW himself, by all the prophets who came since Ezra the scribe..so how can we claim it's altered? the only form it's really altered in is translated forms since we also know the original hebrew(Ezras version) was also eventually translated into greek (the Septuagint) and the original hebrew disappeared until later hebrew translations appeared.
The masoretic text ie the later hebrew edition of the same greek text is a translation......we can question that one but most bible versions we talk about today are based on te greek Septuagint which also predates Jesus himself and obviously the Quran.
I think it is not a strong argument to attack the Torah in light of what is in the Quran. Still all of this is about our position towards modern israel...and the argument im making is that ethnic cleansing we talk about is also applicable to the Quranic themes ie the establishment of ancient israel.
Over 60 years of work has gone into it and it is there, for anyone to read, the very best and most accurate translation out there. It even has additional books reinstated that were previously removed. It has both the Bible and the Koran, fully cross-referenced and in perfect harmony as one book, for the very first time ever. People just need to take the time to do it.
For example:
Sura 12:23. But she in whose house he was, sought to seduce him from his (true) self: she fastened the doors, and said: "Now come, thou (dear one)!" He said: "(God) forbid! Truly (thy husband) is my master! He made my sojourn agreeable! Truly to no good come those who do wrong!"
Clearly, in this translation the meaning is made clear and in perfect harmony with what it says in the Torah.