Jerusalem is the capital of Israel

Forever Light

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The narrative is that the caananites became deeply sinful and so had to be removed and that's part of why God chose Israel to remove them.
Moses right to David and Solomon engaged in wars against them so you have a line of prophets engaging in this 'ethnic cleansing'.

Forget all of those narratives for a moment
the Quran itself clearly speaks in the present tense and confirms the Torah as 'a guidance and light'.
The prophet SAW held the Torah in his hands, placed it on a cushion and said 'I believe in you'

the tampering of the Torah argument occurs because Ezra the scribe had to rewrite the torah, but if the torah was indeed not authentic after that, why did these prophets come at later times and not confirm that? inc Jesus?

Abu Hurairah r.a. says that the Jews used to read the Torah in Hebrew and interpret it in Arabic for Muslims, whereupon the Prophet s.a.w. instructed: “Don’t endorse the statements of the people of scripture nor reject them”

(Sahih Bukhari, Kitab Al-Tafsir, Hadith No. 4485)



Abdullah Bin Amr B Al-As says that the Prophet s.a.w. said: “Convey to others wha I say even though one message. And report from the Bani israel, there is no problem in it. But beware that one who attributes something wrongly to me will certainly get his abode in the hell-fire.”

(Sahih Bukhari, Kitab Al-Anbiya, Hadith No. 3461)



Jabir Bin Abdullah reports that once Umar Bin al-Khattab read a book, which he had received from a Jew, to the Prophet who got angry and said: “O the son of al-Khattab, ar you embarrased? By the One in whose hands is my life, I have brought to you something which is pure and immaculate. Don’t ask them(the Jews) anything. There is a possibility that they tell you the truth and you refute it, or they tell you the false and you confirm it. By the One in whose hands is my life, even if Musa were alive today he would have followed me.”

(Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Hadith no. 4736)


in hadith, the verse of stoning are called 'the divine verse' and similar to that the prophet SAW showed respect to the Torah (as mentioned) and above the only suggestion is that the interpretations/translations were the problem.

That's my argument against muslims, that our own translators/interpretors have done the same thing. Yet in that hadith the prophet SAW even says

"But beware that one who attributes something wrongly to me will certainly get his abode in the hell-fire."
so how much worse is it when they purposely alter the meaning of the Quran in the english language?
i literally mean some of these translators literally changed words to give it a different meaning knowingly..and you can only know they did it knowingly if you're familir with the theme and understand their reasoning.

For example, in the hebrew language we know that Lord (adoni) and THE Lord (adonai) are not equal. hence Jesus as 'Adoni/lord' does not make him God, you with me so far?
Years ago i brought this up with muslims, arguing that the term 'lord' in the context was not shirk, to which they said it was
but in arabic the word for lord is rabb and there is only one use for this word, we refer to Allah only as rabb.
When i made this argument, one of the 'brothers' on the forum decided to not engage me in a fair debate and told me
"bring your proofs from Quran/hadith, i do not care about other books"

You know what actually happened? i swear this is true
I had no prior research and just read the Quran at random for some perspective
it was one of those times where i was new to this form of argument and i was pretty upset tbh...moreso at the ego from my own kind (muslims)
i stumbled upon this verse


Surah 12 verse 23

diff translations yet again differ

And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him. She closed the doors and said, "Come, you." He said, "[I seek] the refuge of Allah. Indeed, he is my master, who has made good my residence. Indeed, wrongdoers will not succeed."

And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him (to do an evil act), and she closed the doors and said: "Come on, O you." He said: "I seek refuge in Allah (or Allah forbid)! Truly, he (your husband) is my master! He made my living in a great comfort! (So I will never betray him). Verily, the Zalimun (wrong and evil-doers) will never be successful."


the first translation posted, it implies that Allah is his master and the second one implies the head of the house was his master.
The word for master is Sayyid.....and the word in arabic used here was 'rabb' because in the context Yusuf AS would have been referring to his 'adoni' (though i dont even know whqat language he spoke at that time)

Warawadathu allatee huwa fee baytiha AAan nafsihi waghallaqati alabwaba waqalat hayta laka qala maAAatha Allahi innahu rabbee ahsana mathwaya innahu la yuflihu alththalimoona

The point im making here is yet again that subtle meanings are so deep in the Quran and their relation to the contents in the bible
what a muslim translator/interpretor could do is read the word 'rabb' in the context and figure 'it is dangerous for me to literally write 'lord' so i'll use master instead but i'll also change the meaning to imply Yusuf AS was referring to Allah Himself and not the master of the house.....


Basically if you dwell on these topics and you notice little ways where muslim translators have altered a meaning...this is no different to what the prophet SAW said about the jews.

Why in one form do you more or less reject the Torah but not do the same with the Quran? im assuming it's because the arabic has not changed and that is a very obvious plus point about the Quran...but what the Torah has in it's favour is universal confirmation
it's been confirmed in the Quran, by prophet SAW himself, by all the prophets who came since Ezra the scribe..so how can we claim it's altered? the only form it's really altered in is translated forms since we also know the original hebrew(Ezras version) was also eventually translated into greek (the Septuagint) and the original hebrew disappeared until later hebrew translations appeared.
The masoretic text ie the later hebrew edition of the same greek text is a translation......we can question that one but most bible versions we talk about today are based on te greek Septuagint which also predates Jesus himself and obviously the Quran.

I think it is not a strong argument to attack the Torah in light of what is in the Quran. Still all of this is about our position towards modern israel...and the argument im making is that ethnic cleansing we talk about is also applicable to the Quranic themes ie the establishment of ancient israel.




I very strongly believe, that if people would be willing to study the new King of kings' Bible Translation, then most if not all disputes would be almost instantly solved and any perceived differences would quickly begin to disappear.

Over 60 years of work has gone into it and it is there, for anyone to read, the very best and most accurate translation out there. It even has additional books reinstated that were previously removed. It has both the Bible and the Koran, fully cross-referenced and in perfect harmony as one book, for the very first time ever. People just need to take the time to do it.

For example:
Sura 12:23. But she in whose house he was, sought to seduce him from his (true) self: she fastened the doors, and said: "Now come, thou (dear one)!" He said: "(God) forbid! Truly (thy husband) is my master! He made my sojourn agreeable! Truly to no good come those who do wrong!"

Clearly, in this translation the meaning is made clear and in perfect harmony with what it says in the Torah.
 

Lisa

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I very strongly believe, that if people would be willing to study the new King of kings' Bible Translation, then most if not all disputes would be almost instantly solved and any perceived differences would quickly begin to disappear.

Over 60 years of work has gone into it and it is there, for anyone to read, the very best and most accurate translation out there. It even has additional books reinstated that were previously removed. It has both the Bible and the Koran, fully cross-referenced and in perfect harmony as one book, for the very first time ever. People just need to take the time to do it.

For example:
Sura 12:23. But she in whose house he was, sought to seduce him from his (true) self: she fastened the doors, and said: "Now come, thou (dear one)!" He said: "(God) forbid! Truly (thy husband) is my master! He made my sojourn agreeable! Truly to no good come those who do wrong!"

Clearly, in this translation the meaning is made clear and in perfect harmony with what it says in the Torah.
How can the Bible and the quran be in perfect harmony? Jesus is God the Son in the Bible and He is a second rate prophet in the quran...that’s hardly perfect harmony...
 

DesertRose

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How can the Bible and the quran be in perfect harmony? Jesus is God the Son in the Bible and He is a second rate prophet in the quran...that’s hardly perfect harmony...
Grandma toxic is back, beware. She is stirring her pot of dysfunctional hatred and we wish she would crawl back to her retirement:
If you can not be a Christlike voice for peace and help to the weak and oppressed then why are you here? What kind of Anti-Christian are you?
 

Lisa

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Grandma toxic is back, beware. She is stirring her pot of dysfunctional hatred and we wish she would crawl back to her retirement:
If you can not be a Christlike voice for peace and help to the weak and oppressed then why are you here? What kind of Anti-Christian are you?
Christlike voice of peace? Was Jesus for peace? He said that He came to bring a sword not peace...

Did He help the weak and oppressed? I thought He came to save the lost...

You’re a muslim, how do you know what a Christian is like? Really!
 

DesertRose

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Veterans for Peace (US)
An extended look at the upcoming documentary series from filmmaker Chris Smiley that follows a Veterans For Peace delegation in Palestine. Our organization sent former soldiers who are now social justice advocates to Israel and Palestine to witness the reality and take a stand for human rights.
 

TokiEl

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The United States will finally recognise the city of Jerusalem as the capital of the nation of Israel.

Does anyone care to share their thoughts on this?
This is the best and surefire way to connect the whole Islam world against the US and Israel.

This is war... and they both need to go down. There is just too much God damn Jews in Israel and too much christians in the US.

Enough ! Let us rise up against God and His people already.
 
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Dmitri

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Let us rise up against God and His people already.
I have been thinking on how to reply to your post in a sensitive and diplomatic manner. I could not think of anything so my response to your post is simply this: "Are you delusional"?

Rise up against GOD and HIS people ???? Good luck with that o_O
 

Forever Light

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How can the Bible and the quran be in perfect harmony? Jesus is God the Son in the Bible and He is a second rate prophet in the quran...that’s hardly perfect harmony...
They are is in perfect harmony, because both the Bible and Koran are from the same Source (God).

All of the problems have arisen because of wrongful interpretation and willful interference by people within organised religion who all work for Satan (either knowingly, or unknowingly in most cases).

Both the Bible and Koran are Guides that have been sent down to mankind, by God. Why then would they not be in perfect harmony, once correctly interpreted? (As in fact, they are).

The hardest thing for Christians (I'm presuming that you are a Christian) that they will need to come to terms with and accept, is the fact that Christianity (as it is known today) and the interpretation of Scripture as done and is taught by the churches, is not in harmony at all with either Christ's Teaching and the Holy Bible, or with what Mohammed (pbuh) was told by God (The Holy Koran).

Jesus taught exactly the same as what Mohammed (pbuh) was told, by God.
 

Forever Light

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How can the Bible and the quran be in perfect harmony? Jesus is God the Son in the Bible and He is a second rate prophet in the quran...that’s hardly perfect harmony...
The trinity doctrine is a Catholic teaching and is wrong.
It is not taught by Christ.

John
14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

20:30 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have Life through his name.

Sura
43:57. When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)!
43:58. And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people.
43:59. He was no more than a servant ("I came not to do mine own will, but the Will of Him that sent me" - John 6:38): We granted Our favour (Christ) to him (Sura 4:171), and We made him the Example to the Children of Israel (John 14:6).
43:60. And if it were Our Will, We could make angels from amongst you, succeeding each other on the Earth.
43:61. And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way.

There you have it. Perfect harmony.
(Scripture quoted from the King of kings' Bible.)
 

Forever Light

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"begotten" is also an (obvious) misinterpretation and is wrong.
The correct interpretation and word that should be used is "incarnated", not begotten.

John
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the (adopted) sons of God, [even] to them that believe in his identity:
1:13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (human), but of God (who is Spirit).

(Born again of The Spirit - see: The Gospel of John, chapter 3)

4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (being) and in Truth.

God is a Spirit.
As is Christ, the (Eldest) Son of God. (John 10:34, Psalm 82)

"Beget" is a human word (which refers to a human/animal act).
Therefore using the word beget/begotten when referring to Jesus is obviously an insult to God.

God does not beget, He only says "Be" and then it is.

John
1:14 And the Word was made flesh (incarnated), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only incarnated of the Father) full of Grace and Truth (Nazir in Hebrew).

1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only incarnated Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [Him].

3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only incarnated Son, that whosoever believeth him should not perish, but have Everlasting Life.
[
KOFK]
 
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Forever Light

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Numbers
23:19 God [is] not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

Matthew
8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of Man hath not where to lay [his] head.
 

Forever Light

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And Virgin Mary is NOT the "mother of God" (which is another completely ridiculous, nonsensical and blasphemous catholic teaching).

See: [The GOSPEL TRUTH about Virgin Mary (by JESUS's own APOSTLES)]

Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider [it] in thine heart, that the "I AM" He [is] God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: [there is] no other. (He is not human. He has no wife; NO MOTHER and there is no queen of heaven - Jeremiah 7:18.)
 
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Forever Light

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https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-the-trinity/

New Testament books written by end of 1st century AD.
Official Roman Catholic Church formed 325 AD.

And your "translation" is being taken as seriously by bible-believing Christians as we take the Jehovah's Witnesses New World (Mis)translation.
It's not my translation, but it is the translation that I love and prefer to read above all others because everything in it makes perfect sense.

The catholic trinity doctrine is wrong.
 
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Forever Light

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https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-the-trinity/

New Testament books written by end of 1st century AD.
Official Roman Catholic Church formed 325 AD.

And your "translation" is being taken as seriously by bible-believing Christians as we take the Jehovah's Witnesses New World (Mis)translation.
The Trinity Delusion - Isaiah 9:6
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Isaiah9_6-2.html

Apostle Paul also confirms it for you:

1 Corinthians

11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
15:27 For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him.
15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But the catholic priests have "misunderstood" Paul's Epistles (letters) and then taught it (their false church doctrines) to everyone.
As Peter warned:

2 Peter
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles (letters), speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other Scriptures, unto their OWN destruction.
 
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