Jeremiah the Conspiracy Theorist

[rainerann]

@rainerran just like the yin symbol has some yang in it and vice versa. ie yin does lead to yang and vice versa But what primarily sets apart passive and active is what comes first. repentance Internally active externally passive charity/war externally active internally passive passive ie repentance is about changing the self first. active ie war or charity is about changing the world first

Right, but then you would be suggesting that the community which rejected the message of Jeremiah regarding judgment was active which would consequently lead to the fallout of the passive path. However, their response towards his message is passive rather than active. They literally did nothing different in response to what Jeremiah said. Passive is nonaction and even if repentance could also be considered passive, extreme passive would create the fallout rather than a rejection of repentance or the passive component on the scale.

Therefore, the fallout cannot be entirely attributed to the rejection of the passive path if the community represents passive to the extreme. Saying the fallout was created by rejection of the passive path, or rejection of repentance is going to consequently assume they were active. However, they were not active. They were passive to the extreme. Their passive introspection was selfishly motivated and not repentant.

And so the yin and yang multiply or increase so to speak to become interchangeable and somewhat fluid in the recognition that different methods are needed at different times to create balance. There would essentially be a yin and a yang to passive where one represents selfish introspection and the other could represent repentant introspection, which would both be identified by outcomes to be positive or negative. The possibilities are limitless really. There are no real boundaries outside of what could be compared to Boolean logic or that a series of true/false statements are the only things creating any real boundaries within this system, which basically means that you can't do two things at once. Other than this restriction, the possibilities are endless.

As a result, because of the fluidity this creates, people can essentially do whatever they want. This could be described as freedom since there are no real boundaries to make judgments on, and not having boundaries doesn't necessarily mean something negative. This could be considered similar to what Christ said about not judging or you will be judged with the same measure. So I see how you making you are making a connection.

However, whether or not this does create some clarity on what is happening, this scenario is not what Jeremiah is suggesting as a solution. He is not suggesting that the people repent in order to avoid a natural fallout. The solution he is presenting to the people represents the way God intervenes and this is a primary component that was being censored by those in authority (Jeremiah 36).

They didn't want to believe that God can and will intervene if they did not repent. This is something that is also being rejected today. Can God intervene? Will He intervene? Because this is essentially what ends up happening. God intervenes and if correction only takes places because of the natural progression towards a state of balance, there is never any need for God to intervene. People will make their own consequences and the consequences will create balance, and so a limitation is reached in using Taoism for comparison to promote understanding of what the book of Jeremiah has to teach us from a social perspective.

The book of Jeremiah is not limited to presenting prophecy or judgment. It creates a social picture that demonstrates something that increases our ability to discern what is happening around us that is clear and easy to understand.

For example, people are not divided because they belong to different cultures. People are divided primarily because they either choose to seek righteousness or they choose to seek unrighteousness as the King of Judah is clearly depicted as choosing unrighteousness and Jeremiah chose to seek righteousness, while they belonged to the same culture. They were not opposing nations. This was an internal conflict that brought judgment upon them suggesting that people exist in two primary groupings, wheat or tares. So the book of Jeremiah does promote taking personal inventory because of this like you are suggesting.

We could also say that judgment cannot be determined by a man's own definition of righteousness. It is determined by the intervention of God. It is not determined by outcomes created by moments of imbalance. Jeremiah was spared from the collective judgment towards Israel even while he was rejected by many who chose to define righteousness according to a definition that was self-serving and capable of protecting their own conscious from the fear of consequences.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@rainerann they had an army, they had leaders and intelligent peoplme, alliances and a strong city.
These things means they were active.

The demolition job was gradual ie God made them weaker ie Jeremiah 13 and their strongest, smarter people were gradually killed off.

You're right on one area...this is actually a theme in kabballah ie you have the tree of life where there's a passive and active side but also the tree of death. So for example people can be passive...but to false gods and this only leads to hell. Since it is a block in the metaphysical tree they won't receive from God but only receive to the extent of what they worshipped ie if they are demons then maybe they have some power to change you..but not a lot.
So when I talk about being passive I really do mean in the context of the correct system ie the correct God.

However like the yin Yang system as I explained greater Yin leads to lesser Yang and vice versa. So for example charity is an active action with the intent to change the environment around you. Yet to a lesser degree it is also going to bring some yin or change your inner being/qualities.

The simple way to define the difference between yin and Yang is to remember yin correlates to God's Trancendence and power, ie you submit to Him. Being passive to His Will.
And also active to God's Immanence.

take the persuit of correct knowledge as an example Active or passive? Since greater Yin contains lesser yang...it can be seen as active but it is mostly passive.
Ie yin = externally passive but internally active (and vice versa).
Learning is passive.

Also another way to make sense of it is is to remember yin=left and Yang=right.
Left right correlate to the left and right brain ie to logic and the mystical Ie God's Trancendence and Immanence.
To even perform the right Yang/active path here still begins with logical truth (yin) ie when we were young we first learnt the truth (or at least that's what was attempted) this was passive.

When the majority people are in the correct belief and posess the right qualities via the passive path then they are ready to be active ie they can be vicegerents of God. David was mostly active but each time he was hurt he retreated and turned to God.
So it's not like you can remain active completely...there's a time where being more passive or active is necessary.
Of course it is about balance in the wider sense.
You cannot perform the right actions without first having the right qualities.
Grace Vs works...

Does this make sense at all?
For a much more detailed understanding you should read Madam Guyon's 'spiritual torrents' text online.

My post is kind of all over the place, in on pain killer from a recent injury and also have an awful sore throat past few days.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I appreciate that you are associating Jeremiah with prophecy. However, I was trying to make an association with his experience as a prophet and compare this to the social experience of researching what is often labeled as a conspiracy.

How would you say his experience mirrors the experience of someone who is researching a controversial subject and does this influence your willingness to listen to someone when you are able to observe that they are experiencing some social isolation or rejection.

For example, Jeremiah 10:14:

"Every man is deprived of knowledge, every goldsmith is confounded because of his graven images." There are a cause and effect to observe in this verse. The goldsmith is making idols that cause him to become increasingly confused. Increasing the number of idols deprives a man of knowledge within the community.

So the goldsmith makes the idols that deprive a man of knowledge and a man seeking after idols cause a goldsmith to become confused in the process of making them for the man. Therefore, you have the representation of a society that is basically codependent. Everyone is like an alcoholic giving another alcoholic a drink that causes him to sink further in his addiction.

Then, you have Jeremiah who seeks to be separate from this even when it causes distress, persecutions, lamentations.

Therefore, I wouldn't say I believe something because it is rejected, but I am more willing to listen to someone who experiences some sort of rejection for the subject they research because I know this was the experience of the prophets.

You speak in philosophic idioms. The simplicity is in Christ (2 Cor. 11:3) (1 Cor. 1:26)

 

[rainerann]

@rainerann they had an army, they had leaders and intelligent peoplme, alliances and a strong city.
These things means they were active.

The demolition job was gradual ie God made them weaker ie Jeremiah 13 and their strongest, smarter people were gradually killed off.

You're right on one area...this is actually a theme in kabballah ie you have the tree of life where there's a passive and active side but also the tree of death. So for example people can be passive...but to false gods and this only leads to hell. Since it is a block in the metaphysical tree they won't receive from God but only receive to the extent of what they worshipped ie if they are demons then maybe they have some power to change you..but not a lot.
So when I talk about being passive I really do mean in the context of the correct system ie the correct God.

However like the yin Yang system as I explained greater Yin leads to lesser Yang and vice versa. So for example charity is an active action with the intent to change the environment around you. Yet to a lesser degree it is also going to bring some yin or change your inner being/qualities.

The simple way to define the difference between yin and Yang is to remember yin correlates to God's Trancendence and power, ie you submit to Him. Being passive to His Will.
And also active to God's Immanence.

take the persuit of correct knowledge as an example Active or passive? Since greater Yin contains lesser yang...it can be seen as active but it is mostly passive.
Ie yin = externally passive but internally active (and vice versa).
Learning is passive.

Also another way to make sense of it is is to remember yin=left and Yang=right.
Left right correlate to the left and right brain ie to logic and the mystical Ie God's Trancendence and Immanence.
To even perform the right Yang/active path here still begins with logical truth (yin) ie when we were young we first learnt the truth (or at least that's what was attempted) this was passive.

When the majority people are in the correct belief and posess the right qualities via the passive path then they are ready to be active ie they can be vicegerents of God. David was mostly active but each time he was hurt he retreated and turned to God.
So it's not like you can remain active completely...there's a time where being more passive or active is necessary.
Of course it is about balance in the wider sense.
You cannot perform the right actions without first having the right qualities.
Grace Vs works...

Does this make sense at all?
For a much more detailed understanding you should read Madam Guyon's 'spiritual torrents' text online.

My post is kind of all over the place, in on pain killer from a recent injury and also have an awful sore throat past few days.

Then what is selfishness, active or passive?

 

[Thunderian]

You speak in philosophic idioms. The simplicity is in Christ (2 Cor. 11:3) (1 Cor. 1:26)

I wonder how you would feel about using a darker colour for your posts. I have a hard time seeing the light blue words against the light background, and I don't want to miss the things you're saying.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Then what is selfishness, active or passive?

Yin=Externally passive, internally active ie you are trying to attain things within yourself rather than the outside world,
BUT then Greater Yin contains lesser yang...so there's also within this the element of being internally passive and externally active whilst still trying to create change within yourself...for example Charity.
Charity is yang in the greater sense ie helping people, doing good works, but it is to a lesser degree done to improve us as people, to change our qualities..

I would say selfishness is not about attaining inner qualities, often it is not even about attaining external things, it's about protecting your narrative/story BUT that narrative is always in relation to the outside world.

For example not wanting to help someone because it will be perceived as weak. Even if you don't necessarily want anything, you do ultimately want to appear strong in your personal narrative and how you project yourself to others.
So it is still about trying to attain externally even if it appears passive, it is a corruption of active.


Here are the sephirots in tree of life system

Yesod is the etheric/energy body....Hod is the passive element and Netzah is active element.

Gevurah is the level where we attain qualities from Binah ie God's Judgement. it is about receiving according to our karma.
Chesed is about doing good acts.
but as you can see many lines connecting various parts, this is complex.

here yin is the left side and yang is the right side.
naturally the centre is about keeping balance.

Now the reason I've talked about the above is to show, the opposite/shadow side, ie the Qlipoths in the tree of death system

it is basically as above but opposite
so for example Keter=unity/God, the corresponding Qlipoth=polythiesm or denial of God outside.

Selfishness corresponds to the shadow of Chesed, Gha'agsheblah -The devourers, this is where selfishness comes from, it is a blockage of Chesed.


Btw i know full well kabballah is associated with evil, occult, satanists
that is actually because they used this system to serve evil rather than God.
The 'left hand path' for example is via the tree of death
whereas we receive judgement and qualities from God in the tree of life, in the tree of death there are demons in place who seek to fulfill that role albeit it means being cut off from keter too.
i guess people resorted to the dark side because they were already corrupt and afraid of God's judgement and decided to bypass that and receiving from entities..