Israel-Iran

The Zone

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I see emotions have entered the conversation. Firstly, if you want to get a point across or your message to be heard, constantly calling a country and its people ignorant will not work well in the end. It may actually convince the casual observer to become an enabler of what you are trying to avoid. I am willing to see things as objectively as possible but shut down when people start generalizing while not looking for the reasons within the reasons.
 






Kung Fu

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I see emotions have entered the conversation. Firstly, if you want to get a point across or your message to be heard, constantly calling a country and its people ignorant will not work well in the end. It may actually convince the casual observer to become an enabler of what you are trying to avoid. I am willing to see things as objectively as possible but shut down when people start generalizing while not looking for the reasons within the reasons.
Instead of beating around the bush why don't you just answer the questions lol?
 






The Zone

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Well, the lie and deflect on nukes seems to be the issue/question on both sides of the Israel-Iran conflict, does it not? My whole purpose of this thread was to show displeasure with any possible war or the US getting involved over what I have seen thus far.
 






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Kung Fu

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Well, the lie and deflect on nukes seems to be the issues on both sides of the Israel-Iran conflict, does it not? My whole purpose of this thread was to show displeasure with any possible war or the US getting involved over what I have seen thus far.
I agree with you that the US shouldn't fight Israel's wars any further. If Israel wants a war with Iran do you think Americans should get involved or should Israel fight its own battles?

EDIT: If Iran plays the deflection game it's because it's afraid of sanctions and conflict and still looked at as the aggressor when it's the one that doesn't even have nukes. While Israel HAS nukes yet gets no sanctions put on them and are looked at as the victim (which is why they play the deflection game at times). The reason we have this illogical and lopsided situation is because the people in power right are pure hypocrites to the core.
 






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vigilante71

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Iran's nukes are not the problem at all. It's Iran's opposing ideas to the very existence of Israel that causes the problem. If Iran had continued to be a puppet of America or kept its relationships with Israel as friendly as it was before 1979, nuclear or any other kind of weapon not only would be allowed, but they would even provide it. Naturally, everything that's opposed to Israel's agenda should be infiltrated, or, it will be detected as something terrorist and should be restricted. :rolleyes:
 






rainerann

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Iran is guilty a bit in not honoring their word. But the presentation seemed odd to me and some consider the information obtained to be older (the bulk of it). The bottom line for me here is that this could lead to a prolonged war where there are no clear winners. As an American, I am not into seeing our economy bottom out again as the price of gas soars nor do I like the idea of dead bodies in an emotional war.

Of course, we could have gotten off oil a long time ago had the elite allowed technology. Think about how long it has been since we improved on the basic automobile. This is not about oil, but about a one world leadership. Russia, Iran and some others are loose ends. Anyway, I am not swayed by the information provided yet, and I do think Iran played a negative role in this as well or fell in the trap. Regardless of blame, we should in no way rush to war.
Yah, I am hoping for this to simply lead to some sort of renegotiation. So far, it seems like Trump just wants a "better" Iran deal. I think this would be the only best case scenario we can expect to come of this at the present time.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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You come at me with this bullshit again when I refuted you last time and you couldn't come up with a rebuttal.

While a group of Iran chants death to American, England, and Israel American, England, and Israel have actually gone out and not only preached about the deaths of others but have literally gone and done it and in the millions at that. America, England, and Israel have killed more people indiscriminately than modern day Iran ever has. So please don't bring me one sided bullshit when your camp has killed and done far worse than Iran ever has.
I was led to believe that the Iranians chant "Death to America, Death to Israel" - am I wrong?
 






The Zone

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Iran 81,353,100 (2018)
Israel 8,840,020 (2018)

You ask a tough question KF for the US is not into seeing any country wiped off the face of the earth due to feuds that go back to biblical times and long before the country even existed. Looking at the current population numbers I provided, what do you think will happen if the US does not intervene or if neither had nukes? Would Iran invade Israel and slaughter them once and for all? Or would they negotiate treaties? It is quite complicated.
 






Kung Fu

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I was led to believe that the Iranians chant "Death to America, Death to Israel" - am I wrong?
You're not wrong but again, what's worse a small group of people in a video chanting death threats or actual governments going into other countries based on lies and killing millions (kids, babies, women, men, animals, and etc.) throughout their military life?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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You're not wrong but again, what's worse a small group of people in a video chanting death threats or actual governments going into other countries based on lies and killing millions (kids, babies, women, men, animals, and etc.) throughout their military life?
Not living out there I'm not really in a position to comment about the realty of what is going on on the ground. I'm sure you will agree that there is always two sides to the story.

In the end, actions will reveal the character and intentions of the various regimes.
 






Kung Fu

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Iran 81,353,100 (2018)
Israel 8,840,020 (2018)

You ask a tough question KF for the US is not into seeing any country wiped off the face of the earth due to feuds that go back to biblical times and long before the country even existed. Looking at the current populations numbers I provided, what do you think will happen if the US does not intervene or if neither had nukes? Would Iran invade Israel and slaughter them once and for all? Or would they negotiate treaties? It is quite complicated.
Did Jews exist prior to the invention of Israel on behalf of the UN? When you know the answer to that question you'll know by what was meant by "country being wiped".

The only ones who are looking for war right now is Israel and instead of fighting their own battles they call on others to do it for them.

Also, you ask pointless questions when the facts remain that the only people who have done any kind of slaughtering has been Israel through the US. Here's my advice to you why don't stop with the hypothetical questions and actually address the things that have happened thus far.
 






Kung Fu

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Not living out there I'm not really in a position to comment about the realty of what is going on on the ground. I'm sure you will agree that there is always two sides to the story.
There are two sides to the story and when you look at both you use your brain and logic to figure it out from there. What you don't do is a post a video with a small group of people chanting death threats and compare it to WHOLE NATIONS going into countries based on lies and literally killing babies, men, women, kids, animal life, and etc. (that's what war and invasions entail).

In the end, actions will reveal the character and intentions of the various regimes.
You're right and thus far the only people putting into action their killing intentions have been America and her allies.
 






The Zone

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Did Jews exist prior to the invention of Israel on behalf of the UN? When you know the answer to that question you'll know by what was meant by "country being wiped".

The only ones who are looking for war right now is Israel and instead of fighting their own battles they call on others to do it for them.

Also, you ask pointless questions when the facts remain that the only people who have done any kind of slaughtering has been Israel through the US. Here's my advice to you why don't stop with the hypothetical questions and actually address the things that have happened thus far.
I can see where hypothetical questions may not help. But I also see how hypothesis plays a major role in the big picture of all involved making rational decisions and especially in the way of having fruitful conversations.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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What logic actually tells me is that there are two powerful narratives laying claim on the truth of things. I have heard and understand both to a degree.

What finally happens, if anything, will be more to do with what God allows rather than who is able to shout the loudest.

I read this ages ago and it still reverberates with me.

“Look among the nations and watch—
Be utterly astounded!
For I will work a work in your days
Which you would not believe, though it were told you."

Habakkuk 1:5
 






Kung Fu

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I can see where hypothetical questions may not help. But I also see how hypothesis plays a major role in the big picture of all involved making rational decisions and especially in the way of having fruitful conversations.
I deal in reality and what has happened thus far and not in "what if this" and or "what if that".

Logically speaking if Iran does acquire nukes at least that way we will be sure that Israel would have a far lesser chance of getting America to kill more babies, kids, women, and men based off lies. If war mongering states like the US and Israel can have nukes others should as well in order to be able to defend themselves from lunatics like Bibi.
 






vigilante71

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Broadcasting those videos is what the media use to make Iran look like a monster. Those peoples chanting death are hardly angels, but If there are two sides to every conflict, Israel and America shouldn't be viewed as innocent countries threatened or under attack either.:rolleyes:
 






Kung Fu

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Broadcasting those videos is what the media use to make Iran look like a monster. Those peoples chanting death are hardly angels, but If there are two sides to every conflict, Israel and America shouldn't be viewed as innocent countries threatened or under attack either.:rolleyes:
Exactly. They take a handful of people with a population of over 50 million chanting death threats, because they're tired of countries like the US and her allies bullying other countries, and present it to us like it's all of them. And this is done while the US and her allies have not only talked about death and destruction but have literally gone into numerous amount of countries and killed millions of people based off of lies.
 






Kung Fu

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It always ends up in the same place here no matter the intent. With that said, I will abandon the thread created with good intent in mind.
It's probably because hypocrisy doesn't fly too well around many parts of the world.

Just be honest with yourself (speaking generally) and you will find that hypocrisy is an ugly trait and really irks everyone when it's so blatant to see.
 






DesertRose

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I was led to believe that the Iranians chant "Death to America, Death to Israel" - am I wrong?
In the end, actions will reveal the character and intentions of the various regimes.
It is always good to look at the actions not the rhetoric. You have said the words above (re: actions)previously hence you 'get' it.

It always ends up in the same place here no matter the intent. With that said, I will abandon the thread created with good intent in mind.
Do not abandon a good thread.
TBH it will be good to get everyone thinking about these issues.
Yesterday you brought up the US economy and how it will crash if there is war with Iran. The entire world economy is linked up with it so the crush will be global.
Perestroika (Restructuring)is coming to the world economy.
Glad tidings these rabid dogs of war are tethered to the Creator's long leash/His will and will choke when they reach the end...:).
 






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