Is Jesus the "BEGOTTEN" Son of God?

SpektaCoolAir

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And the reason the Son was born to a human was because the person who could redeem us had to be a blood avenger...He had to have our blood (be human)
blasphemy!


because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
satanism!


He also needed to fulfill the law, not sin, being God helped Him.
blasphemy!


even though it starts & ends with blaspehmy (which is more than bad enough) the core is satanism which makes it from the beginning to the end straight satanic!
 






Lisa

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Read carefully woman. I know you have trouble reading but I thought I made it simple enough for you to understand. Let me state it again. "how can a son impregnate his mom to give birth to himself?".
The Son didn’t impregnate His mom...and He didn’t give birth to Himself, she gave birth to Him.
 






Lisa

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blasphemy!




satanism!




blasphemy!


even though it starts & ends with blaspehmy (which is more than bad enough) the core is satanism which makes it from the beginning to the end straight satanic!
How is it satanism when it’s in the Bible and the Bible is God’s word?
 






Kung Fu

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The Son didn’t impregnate His mom...and He didn’t give birth to Himself, she gave birth to Him.
But the son is also the same ghost that came onto her and impregnated her which allowed her to give birth to himself which makes the son his own father lol? What a mess.
 






SpektaCoolAir

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How is it satanism when it’s in the Bible and the Bible is God’s word?
:D look slow satanic lisa.

we (monotheists) don't believe in a collection of fabrications that was written by unknown (pagan) men (which contains all kinds of abominations) to be the word of The Almighty.

that's totally absurd!

such absurdity comes from satan because that's his mission here on earth to mislead mankind from the right path (worshipping the One & Only Creator) into worshipping him cause whosoever doesn't worship The Creator worships the creation (satan)!
 






Lisa

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:D look slow satanic lisa.

we (monotheists) don't believe in a collection of fabrications that was written by unknown (pagan) men (which contains all kinds of abominations) to be the word of The Almighty.

that's totally absurd!
Well, the Bible is the inspired word of God not satan. The Bible being written by God’s chosen people helps too, don’t ya think?
 






rainerann

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If anyone is really interested. I started reading Justin Martyr's dialogue with Trypho a couple days ago, and I was triggered by how many times he uses the term "begotten." I think if anyone really wants to see the word begotten used as close to the original meaning as possible, this is a good reference. This quote shows how he creates associations with this word and uses these words associations in comparison with each other while discussing the subject of the virgin birth in particular.

It is challenging to describe what this word means and it shows the complexity of language and symbols even. Letters are symbols that were used as pictures to describe things. For example, the letter "Hay" in ancient Hebrew is a picture of a house. Aleph was a picture of an ox head. Translating ancient languages is difficult to be exact because of this, which is why context is important. Accurate context is important in translating because a word in an ancient language can be used more liberally when compared with a modern language.

"“Moreover, the prophecy, ‘Behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,’ was uttered respecting Him. For if He to whom Isaiah referred was not to be begotten of a virgin, of whom did the Holy Spirit declare, ‘Behold, the Lord Himself shall give us a sign: behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son?’ For if He also were to be begotten of sexual intercourse, like all other first-born sons, why did God say that He would give a sign which is not common to all the first-born sons? But that which is truly a sign, and which was to be made trustworthy to mankind,—namely, that the first-begotten of all creation should become incarnate by the Virgin’s womb, and be a child,—this he anticipated by the Spirit of prophecy, and predicted it, as I have repeated to you, in various ways; in order that, when the event should take place, it might be known as the operation of the power and will of the Maker of all things; just as Eve was made from one of Adam’s ribs, and as all living beings were created in the beginning by the word of God. But you in these matters venture to pervert the expositions which your elders that were with Ptolemy king of Egypt gave forth, since you assert that the Scripture is not so as they have expounded it, but says, ‘Behold, the young woman shall conceive,’ as if great events were to be inferred if a woman should beget from sexual intercourse: which indeed all young women, with the exception of the barren, do; but even these, God, if He wills, is able to cause [to bear]. For Samuel’s mother, who was barren, brought forth by the will of God; and so also the wife of the holy patriarch Abraham; and Elisabeth, who bore John the Baptist, and other such. So that you must not suppose that it is impossible for God to do anything He wills. And especially when it was predicted that this would take place, do not venture to pervert or misinterpret the prophecies, since you will injure yourselves alone, and will not harm God."
 






Kung Fu

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If anyone is really interested. I started reading Justin Martyr's dialogue with Trypho a couple days ago, and I was triggered by how many times he uses the term "begotten." I think if anyone really wants to see the word begotten used as close to the original meaning as possible, this is a good reference. This quote shows how he creates associations with this word and uses these words associations in comparison with each other while discussing the subject of the virgin birth in particular.

It is challenging to describe what this word means and it shows the complexity of language and symbols even. Letters are symbols that were used as pictures to describe things. For example, the letter "Hay" in ancient Hebrew is a picture of a house. Aleph was a picture of an ox head. Translating ancient languages is difficult to be exact because of this, which is why context is important. Accurate context is important in translating because a word in an ancient language can be used more liberally when compared with a modern language.

"“Moreover, the prophecy, ‘Behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,’ was uttered respecting Him. For if He to whom Isaiah referred was not to be begotten of a virgin, of whom did the Holy Spirit declare, ‘Behold, the Lord Himself shall give us a sign: behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son?’ For if He also were to be begotten of sexual intercourse, like all other first-born sons, why did God say that He would give a sign which is not common to all the first-born sons? But that which is truly a sign, and which was to be made trustworthy to mankind,—namely, that the first-begotten of all creation should become incarnate by the Virgin’s womb, and be a child,—this he anticipated by the Spirit of prophecy, and predicted it, as I have repeated to you, in various ways; in order that, when the event should take place, it might be known as the operation of the power and will of the Maker of all things; just as Eve was made from one of Adam’s ribs, and as all living beings were created in the beginning by the word of God. But you in these matters venture to pervert the expositions which your elders that were with Ptolemy king of Egypt gave forth, since you assert that the Scripture is not so as they have expounded it, but says, ‘Behold, the young woman shall conceive,’ as if great events were to be inferred if a woman should beget from sexual intercourse: which indeed all young women, with the exception of the barren, do; but even these, God, if He wills, is able to cause [to bear]. For Samuel’s mother, who was barren, brought forth by the will of God; and so also the wife of the holy patriarch Abraham; and Elisabeth, who bore John the Baptist, and other such. So that you must not suppose that it is impossible for God to do anything He wills. And especially when it was predicted that this would take place, do not venture to pervert or misinterpret the prophecies, since you will injure yourselves alone, and will not harm God."
To beget is a reference to human reproduction through sexual intercourse meaning that your god slept with Mary. It even says in the Bible that Casper came onto Mary and that he overshadowed her.

The funny thing is the word "beget" in Greek isn't even mentioned in your oldest Greek manuscripts. Your perverted church fathers put it in to describe their perverted god. Either way you're in a lose-lose situation lol. On the one hand your god has sex with humans or on the other hand the word "begotten" is an interpolation. Have your pick sweetheart :)
 






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To beget is a reference to human reproduction through sexual intercourse meaning that your god slept with Mary. It even says in the Bible that Casper came onto Mary and that he overshadowed her.

The funny thing is the word "beget" in Greek isn't even mentioned in your oldest Greek manuscripts. Your perverted church fathers put it in to describe their perverted god. Either way you're in a lose-lose situation lol. On the one hand your god has sex with humans or on the other hand the word "begotten" is an interpolation. Have your pick sweetheart :)
1) the Quran says such things like

(4) And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #46)



(5) Let the People of the gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #47)


PRESENT TENSE.

if you make these major assumptions out of nothing but conjecture and personal bias, that there was some magical secret gospel, then remember in these type of verses Allah mentions the Torah in the present tense too. For you to try and unravel the vast history of the previous scriptures which btw had a succession of prophets coming throughout and never once rejecting previous scripture or calling it false.....you're stretching in a major way. In truth, you are directly challenging Allah on this.

2) ANY/EVERY verse which 'implies' the previous scripture was altered...was moreso a reference to it's interpretations/translations.
Since i do not believe the Quran contradicts itself, if the Quran tells us in the present tense that the scripture the christians have with them is a 'guidance and light' then i cannot at the same time hold the belief that they altered it.
It is the ultimate meaning/interpretation which they alter themselves.
The core text is easy to understand for me, why is that? why is it i can study the entie NT and derive from it, an entirely different viewpoint from regular christians?
it's because THEY are not true to the book, they do not even understand John 1:1 and that is the foundation of the entire NT.

In the same sense, the prophet SAW was angry when Umar RA was reading a translated interpretation of the Torah. The prophet SAW never attacked THE Torah but rather, showed it much respect. In the hadiths, the verses from the torah on stoning are referred to as 'the divine verses'
divine.........

3) The holy spirit, is not the angel Gabriel. There is absolutely nothing in our religion corroborating this lie. It is muslims who created this story in order to stand against christian missionaries.

one lie washes the other?
in the Quran, the angel Gabriel is always mentioned by name. The Holy Spirit is mentioned in a different context.

check this out

(3) If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and if ye aid one another against him (Muhammad) then lo! Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers.
(سورة التحريم, At-Tahrim, Chapter #66, Verse #4)

look at this entire Surah
https://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=66&translator=4

when Allah is mentioned in the thirrd person, these are verses revealed either through the Holy Spirit OR the angel Gabriel. But here, it is not the angel Gabriel speaking, then who is it?

this verse is linked to this hadith

Whoever satirises the Apostle from amongst you, or praises him and helps it is all the same, And Gabriel, the Apostle of Allah is among us, and the holy spirit who has no match. (Book #031, Hadith #6081)

4) in the spirit of consistency, Allah also tells us this

(2) And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims".
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #111)


and this
(4) O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah's helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


i'm pretty sure Paul's teachings were the uppermost face of christianity after Jesus AS, moreso than even Peter..and Peter was the one disciple singled out by Jesus as his 'rock'.
For me, rejecting the NT is a big ask...it's not something i'm willing to do...and if i accept it as divine scripture.....
then
what does it actually tell us? what did Isa AS say?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil spirit'."

'casper'
please....don't repeat this again, it is wrong.

Prophet SAW "the holy spirit who has no match"
Jesus AS " whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin"



 






Forever Light

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Oct 10, 2017
Messages
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This is very interesting and opens up many new areas of study, of things that have been hidden, if you check and research the links (about Virgin Mary having lived (and being buried) in England, and about Joseph of Arimathea, Glastonbury, etc.:)

"God tells us
and it is written in both the New Covenant and in the Holy Koran that the Virgin Mary was from both the line of David and also from the Levitical line of Aaron, being cousin of Elizabeth (a Levite) and the daughter of Ann, who was from both the British royal family - the line of David and also from the line of Aaron (Moses' brother, who was the first High-priest of Israel). We are also told by God (not Mohammed) in the Holy Koran that Mary did, in fact, give birth to Jesus whilst still a virgin and that she travelled from her home in the West (England) to the East (Israel) to give birth to the miracle-son.
After The Crucifixion, during The Persecution of Christ's TRUE followers, who were called "Covenanters" or "Followers of The Way" (they were NOT called christians), Mary returned home to England, with her rich uncle Joseph of Arimathea, for safety and to spread the Gospel to "The Lost Sheep of The House of Israel" in England, where both Mary and Joseph of Arimathea are buried, in England, where Jesus grew up."
 






elsbet

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Jun 4, 2017
Messages
4,315
1) the Quran says such things like

(4) And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #46)



(5) Let the People of the gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #47)


PRESENT TENSE.

if you make these major assumptions out of nothing but conjecture and personal bias, that there was some magical secret gospel, then remember in these type of verses Allah mentions the Torah in the present tense too. For you to try and unravel the vast history of the previous scriptures which btw had a succession of prophets coming throughout and never once rejecting previous scripture or calling it false.....you're stretching in a major way. In truth, you are directly challenging Allah on this.

2) ANY/EVERY verse which 'implies' the previous scripture was altered...was moreso a reference to it's interpretations/translations.
Since i do not believe the Quran contradicts itself, if the Quran tells us in the present tense that the scripture the christians have with them is a 'guidance and light' then i cannot at the same time hold the belief that they altered it.
It is the ultimate meaning/interpretation which they alter themselves.
The core text is easy to understand for me, why is that? why is it i can study the entie NT and derive from it, an entirely different viewpoint from regular christians?
it's because THEY are not true to the book, they do not even understand John 1:1 and that is the foundation of the entire NT.

In the same sense, the prophet SAW was angry when Umar RA was reading a translated interpretation of the Torah. The prophet SAW never attacked THE Torah but rather, showed it much respect. In the hadiths, the verses from the torah on stoning are referred to as 'the divine verses'
divine.........

3) The holy spirit, is not the angel Gabriel. There is absolutely nothing in our religion corroborating this lie. It is muslims who created this story in order to stand against christian missionaries.

one lie washes the other?
in the Quran, the angel Gabriel is always mentioned by name. The Holy Spirit is mentioned in a different context.

check this out

(3) If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and if ye aid one another against him (Muhammad) then lo! Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers.
(سورة التحريم, At-Tahrim, Chapter #66, Verse #4)


look at this entire Surah
https://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=66&translator=4

when Allah is mentioned in the thirrd person, these are verses revealed either through the Holy Spirit OR the angel Gabriel. But here, it is not the angel Gabriel speaking, then who is it?

this verse is linked to this hadith

Whoever satirises the Apostle from amongst you, or praises him and helps it is all the same, And Gabriel, the Apostle of Allah is among us, and the holy spirit who has no match. (Book #031, Hadith #6081)

4) in the spirit of consistency, Allah also tells us this

(2) And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims".
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #111)


and this
(4) O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah's helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


i'm pretty sure Paul's teachings were the uppermost face of christianity after Jesus AS, moreso than even Peter..and Peter was the one disciple singled out by Jesus as his 'rock'.
For me, rejecting the NT is a big ask...it's not something i'm willing to do...and if i accept it as divine scripture.....
then
what does it actually tell us? what did Isa AS say?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil spirit'."

'casper'
please....don't repeat this again, it is wrong.

Prophet SAW "the holy spirit who has no match"
Jesus AS " whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin"
Wow.
 






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