Is Jesus the "BEGOTTEN" Son of God?

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#1
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
-John 3:16

Christians there's clear problems with this verse. First, God didn't send Himself out of love but out of the ransom that had to be paid to Himself. Second, the word "begotten" is not found in the oldest most complete Bibles but that's the least of the issues with this verse considering the fact the word begotten refers to reproduction in a humanly sense. Since man is made in God's image, according to Christians, well you can guess the rest since it's so foul, I don't even want to write it.

One verse yet so many logical problems. Feel free to explain this to me and try to make sense of it.
 





Vytas

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#2
I agree begotten is not the best choice for translation...Does it prove anything though? It took me 5 seconds to find a meaning...

Monogenes has two primary definitions, "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind".[1] Thus monogenēs (μονογενὴς) may be used both as an adjective monogenēs pais, meaning unique and special.[2] Its Greek meaning is often applied to mean "one of a kind, one and only". Monogenēs (μονογενὴς) may be used both as an adjective monogenēs pais, only child, or only legitimate child, special child, and also on its own as a noun; o monogenēs "the only one", or "the only legitimate child".[3]
 





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#3
I agree begotten is not the best choice for translation...Does it prove anything though? It took me 5 seconds to find a meaning...
Being unique/special is completely different and doesn't even relate to the word "begotten" yet scribes decided to use the word "begotten" when it's not found in the earlier manuscripts. You don't find that strange?
 





Glad 2 know

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#4
Yes , Jesus is special, unique and God's firstborn over all creation -Colossians 1:15 Which means that Jesus existed before anything else was created by God. It would be logical to think that since Jesus existed before anything else was created, he helped his Father create all things. This scripture also tells us that Jesus The Word was with his father since the beginning of creation -John 1:1,2
That's why Jesus is the begotten son of God because he was the first one to exist before anything else, even the angels, he worked with his Father side by side in the creation and they have a beautiful father and son relationship.

Why is Jesus the Word? He was the first one to spread the word about the good news of the Kingdom of his Father. He's the one that came to establish preaching and wanted his followers to do the same and speak the truth about his Heavenly father and his promises for mankind.
 





Vytas

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#5
Greek language is rich and english language is poor. Was it made on purpose ? Possible...My favorite pastor uses greek references all the time while preaching and simultaneously teaching us Greek...Im on the verge of believing that without Greek you cant learn everything bible has to offer.. But does those inaccuracies robs believers from something really important? If you see whole puzzle does it matter one piece is broken? If you already reading John you should already know why how and then and everything else about Jesus, and never mind literal dictionary meanings, who checks them anyway? scholars and muslims :D
@Glad 2 know if you check begotten dictionary meaning you will see he is right, begotten can't be used here

(especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
 





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Glad 2 know

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#6
I see what you mean and that's why good translation is very important. So we get the intended meaning God is trying to convey to us ALL. Just think about it, what good does it do to use ancient words when we live in a modern world where we use modern words/language? I honestly don't have much time to be learning Greek. Maybe someone that knows Greek can translate the old Greek words with modern Greek words that are used and understood today? And in turn use those modern Greek words and translate them into the English of our time? We no longer understand 18th century English so it wouldn't be helpful to use words used back then. Reliable translation is VERY important.
 





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#7
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
-John 3:16

Christians there's clear problems with this verse. First, God didn't send Himself out of love but out of the ransom that had to be paid to Himself. Second, the word "begotten" is not found in the oldest most complete Bibles but that's the least of the issues with this verse considering the fact the word begotten refers to reproduction in a humanly sense. Since man is made in God's image, according to Christians, well you can guess the rest since it's so foul, I don't even want to write it.

One verse yet so many logical problems. Feel free to explain this to me and try to make sense of it.
You invest a lot of time trying to discredit Jehovah. Do you get points for that?
 





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#8
Yes , Jesus is special, unique and God's firstborn over all creation -Colossians 1:15 Which means that Jesus existed before anything else was created by God. It would be logical to think that since Jesus existed before anything else was created, he helped his Father create all things. This scripture also tells us that Jesus The Word was with his father since the beginning of creation -John 1:1,2
That's why Jesus is the begotten son of God because he was the first one to exist before anything else, even the angels, he worked with his Father side by side in the creation and they have a beautiful father and son relationship.

Why is Jesus the Word? He was the first one to spread the word about the good news of the Kingdom of his Father. He's the one that came to establish preaching and wanted his followers to do the same and speak the truth about his Heavenly father and his promises for mankind.
The contradictions in this post are plenty. Also, on a side note please don't you ever post the word "logical" in with any of your Christians views. Let's begin. How can Jesus exist before anything else when the Father has always been there? If Jesus helped His Father create things that would mean two gods were creating things. Now how can Jesus be the begotten son, which means he's created, if he's always existed?

Like I keep saying the more you guys post the more ridiculous it gets.

Also, refer to the verse in my post because that's what I want to focus on.
 





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#12
I don't have to discredit anything. The more you guys post the worse it gets for you. You discredit yourselves.
The more you post, the more it looks like you have a prearranged religious crusade you are participating in.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all that there isn’t a recruiting process from the Islamic boards to come here and evangelize especially when you consider the history of Muslims coming to this forum to bring the message of Islam. I was reading the board for a while before it shut down last time. It is like an ego driven tag team.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if most of you knew each other before coming to the forum.

I highly doubt most of you met each other here at the forum either. Funny considering how many time you’ve called thunderian a troll that your the one who displays troll behavior the best.

What’s funny is that aside from a few of us who are Christians, most of the people here probably don’t care about these radical attacks against something like the trinity that you seem to think is going to bring in converts in droves.

Didn’t we even have one of the former converts to Islam convert back and try to hide her identity to not offend people when the forum opened? Why do you suppose she isn’t here anymore? Does it damage the ego so much to have someone who actually joined Islam and left Islam around here? You only have to look at some of the early posts In the introduce me thread to see how she was being harassed from the start.

People deserve to know how dirty the Muslim gang plays around here. As a result, for the most part, there is no point in responding to any of you. I just don’t need to waste my time responding to crusade like Muslim debates.

Still your asking us to defend the trinity again. This is a harmless belief to most any logical person. Us silly Christians believe Jesus is the son of god. This harms no one. However, believing that Muhammad married and consummated a relationship with a nine year old could have serious consequences.

I realize it is easier to try to make Christians look stupid to cover up the many dangerous teachings that circulate within Islam that would make the average person cringe.

If anything, the only thing our discussions here do is make people more likely to be atheist or Buddhist. In all honesty, I would accept Buddhism before accepting Islam any day of the week. Asia is an ancient culture that has proven stability. It really just kills me to think of China ever becoming Muslim. That would be a tremendous cultural loss for the Chinese to lose their music, dance, and other customs.

So keep up the good work and don’t feel bad when Islam continues to decline in numbers after a temporary rise. I’ve lived in the west my whole life. I can guarantee you these people don’t want to be forced to pray five times a day or forced to participate in a yearly ridiculous fasting pattern. Spiritual practices like these should not be mandated. There should not ever be laws that require ridiculous fasting patterns.

As Christians, we know Jesus says that hypocrites pray and fast for the approval of others. Spiritual practices should not be enforced by law because the whole point of being spiritual is to have freedom. Islam is bondage. Period.
 





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#13
The more you post, the more it looks like you have a prearranged religious crusade you are participating in.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all that there isn’t a recruiting process from the Islamic boards to come here and evangelize especially when you consider the history of Muslims coming to this forum to bring the message of Islam. I was reading the board for a while before it shut down last time. It is like an ego driven tag team.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if most of you knew each other before coming to the forum.

I highly doubt most of you met each other here at the forum either. Funny considering how many time you’ve called thunderian a troll that your the one who displays troll behavior the best.

What’s funny is that aside from a few of us who are Christians, most of the people here probably don’t care about these radical attacks against something like the trinity that you seem to think is going to bring in converts in droves.

Didn’t we even have one of the former converts to Islam convert back and try to hide her identity to not offend people when the forum opened? Why do you suppose she isn’t here anymore? Does it damage the ego so much to have someone who actually joined Islam and left Islam around here? You only have to look at some of the early posts In the introduce me thread to see how she was being harassed from the start.

People deserve to know how dirty the Muslim gang plays around here. As a result, for the most part, there is no point in responding to any of you. I just don’t need to waste my time responding to crusade like Muslim debates.

Still your asking us to defend the trinity again. This is a harmless belief to most any logical person. Us silly Christians believe Jesus is the son of god. This harms no one. However, believing that Muhammad married and consummated a relationship with a nine year old could have serious consequences.

I realize it is easier to try to make Christians look stupid to cover up the many dangerous teachings that circulate within Islam that would make the average person cringe.

If anything, the only thing our discussions here do is make people more likely to be atheist or Buddhist. In all honesty, I would accept Buddhism before accepting Islam any day of the week. Asia is an ancient culture that has proven stability. It really just kills me to think of China ever becoming Muslim. That would be a tremendous cultural loss for the Chinese to lose their music, dance, and other customs.

So keep up the good work and don’t feel bad when Islam continues to decline in numbers after a temporary rise. I’ve lived in the west my whole life. I can guarantee you these people don’t want to be forced to pray five times a day or forced to participate in a yearly ridiculous fasting pattern. Spiritual practices like these should not be mandated. There should not ever be laws that require ridiculous fasting patterns.

As Christians, we know Jesus says that hypocrites pray and fast for the approval of others. Spiritual practices should not be enforced by law because the whole point of being spiritual is to have freedom. Islam is bondage. Period.
you seem so bitter & delusional - maybe you should take some time off of the net - before having some kind of serious mental breakdown (if you haven't it already).

on the real now - go see a doctor/therapist - for all that you produce here sounds really dangerous - like the next christian fundementalist/terrorist attack is on the rise type of thing.

but anyways - thanks for hyping up our faith - in almost every post you make - & so drawing people closer to it - keeping them curious & make them research about it (they say there is no such thing as bad publicity).

keep up the good work! ;)
 





Vytas

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#14
you seem so bitter & delusional - maybe you should take some time off of the net - before having some kind of serious mental breakdown (if you haven't it already).
on the real now - go see a doctor/therapist - for all that you produce here sounds really dangerous - like the next christian fundementalist/terrorist attack is on the rise type of thing.
She sounds pissed enough to not care about political correctness anymore. Nothing dangerous.
And you should be reported for implying she is mentally ill... And why do you mention christianity at all? Connection between mental health and religious beliefs? Is she sick because she is a christian or christians are prone for mental diseases? Which one is it? And don't back down now, say everything you have to say and we will see how it ends..
 





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#15
The more you post, the more it looks like you have a prearranged religious crusade you are participating in.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all that there isn’t a recruiting process from the Islamic boards to come here and evangelize especially when you consider the history of Muslims coming to this forum to bring the message of Islam. I was reading the board for a while before it shut down last time. It is like an ego driven tag team.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if most of you knew each other before coming to the forum.

I highly doubt most of you met each other here at the forum either. Funny considering how many time you’ve called thunderian a troll that your the one who displays troll behavior the best.

What’s funny is that aside from a few of us who are Christians, most of the people here probably don’t care about these radical attacks against something like the trinity that you seem to think is going to bring in converts in droves.

Didn’t we even have one of the former converts to Islam convert back and try to hide her identity to not offend people when the forum opened? Why do you suppose she isn’t here anymore? Does it damage the ego so much to have someone who actually joined Islam and left Islam around here? You only have to look at some of the early posts In the introduce me thread to see how she was being harassed from the start.

People deserve to know how dirty the Muslim gang plays around here. As a result, for the most part, there is no point in responding to any of you. I just don’t need to waste my time responding to crusade like Muslim debates.

Still your asking us to defend the trinity again. This is a harmless belief to most any logical person. Us silly Christians believe Jesus is the son of god. This harms no one. However, believing that Muhammad married and consummated a relationship with a nine year old could have serious consequences.

I realize it is easier to try to make Christians look stupid to cover up the many dangerous teachings that circulate within Islam that would make the average person cringe.

If anything, the only thing our discussions here do is make people more likely to be atheist or Buddhist. In all honesty, I would accept Buddhism before accepting Islam any day of the week. Asia is an ancient culture that has proven stability. It really just kills me to think of China ever becoming Muslim. That would be a tremendous cultural loss for the Chinese to lose their music, dance, and other customs.

So keep up the good work and don’t feel bad when Islam continues to decline in numbers after a temporary rise. I’ve lived in the west my whole life. I can guarantee you these people don’t want to be forced to pray five times a day or forced to participate in a yearly ridiculous fasting pattern. Spiritual practices like these should not be mandated. There should not ever be laws that require ridiculous fasting patterns.

As Christians, we know Jesus says that hypocrites pray and fast for the approval of others. Spiritual practices should not be enforced by law because the whole point of being spiritual is to have freedom. Islam is bondage. Period.
Look who it is. Are you here to fact-check something else with me? You know considering how you post absolute bullshit that doesn't seem to match-up with reality. I never got to thank you for posting in the Thanksgiving thread. It gave me plenty of opportunities to correct your blatant lies to show the rest of the people on this board how much of a liar and racist you really are. Thanks once again sweetheart. And please keep posting, I love correcting you ;)

Also, Islam has been on the rise ever since the last prophet entered this world ;) You know this deep down and so do the rest of you.
 





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#16
She sounds pissed enough to not care about political correctness anymore. Nothing dangerous.
And you should be reported for implying she is mentally ill... And why do you mention christianity at all? Connection between mental health and religious beliefs? Is she sick because she is a christian or christians are prone for mental diseases? Which one is it? And don't back down now, say everything you have to say and we will see how it ends..
She's pissed because she's been called out on her lies and the people on the board have seen it first hand. She accused me of hiding the real "Islam" and how I give lessons to people on here in private about the real "Islam" and (without any kind of proof at all) so if that doesn't scream paranoia, which can be a symptom of mental health issues, than I don't know what is. Her being "sick" has nothing to do with her being a Christian, even though the religion makes absolutely no sense, but everything to do with her paranoia, lies, and deceitfulness.
 





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#17
No we don't, you are constantly in attack mode. You have problems with our faith, we don't :D You are at war and you simply can't see there is only one side fighting...
I'm not attacking Christians I'm simply exposing the evangelists on here in how backwards they are and how nothing they say makes sense. The word begotten isn't even in the Bible but you're lying scribes decided to throw it in there and even then it only makes your case worse for you because the word "begotten" is term that explains human reproduction through "SEX". You can put the rest of the puzzle together yourself seeing as you know exactly what I'm getting at.

And then you have the ransom part. If your god really did love mankind he wouldn't need a ransom. God didn't forgive or love anything but instead, like a debt collector, came and collected what He was owed. In the real word that's not love but rather a bank.

Two can play at this game, mate.
 





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#18
She sounds pissed enough to not care about political correctness anymore. Nothing dangerous.
And you should be reported for implying she is mentally ill... And why do you mention christianity at all? Connection between mental health and religious beliefs? Is she sick because she is a christian or christians are prone for mental diseases? Which one is it? And don't back down now, say everything you have to say and we will see how it ends..
:D

what should i be scared of to "back down"?

funny people though.

for the record: this site is not my life! should i get banned - so be it - life goes on (in the real world) - i think a lot of y'all gotta realize this.

so you call: telling lies over & over again - lumping a billion people together just because of your lack of understanding & refusal of valid information that has been provided to you numerous times by several people (independent from each other) & hate/fear mongering - just not caring about political correctness?

for real now?

wow if that ain't some shit - i don't know what it is though.

the way she keeps portraying herself & her attitude towards a specific group of people says she is not just "your average christian" but a hardcore fundamentalist (hate driven to the core) - THAT'S why i brought up christianity.

if she were a muslim - with that type of behavior - she would be watched & even more!

so stop yapping!