Is it Ethical to Eat Meat?

mecca

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So why give your body less protein?
Why do you think it's less?
Animals are either predators or prey, it's their nature. The animals we eat are eaten by predators everyday, so cows, sheep, goats are created to serve us in a nutritional sense
Factory farming and mass breeding is unnatural though. It's so far removed from actual natural processes, there's no cages in nature. Humans are the predator in this sense but instead of hunting an animal and giving it a fair shot in it's natural habitat, we breed them and keep them in cages to be slaughtered. There are way too many livestock animals on Earth because of humans... the Earth can't sustain them. But even a small farm would be more natural and sustainable.

I agree that we have to start farming animals in a natural/sustainable and more humane way.
but also an environmental sense
What do you mean by this?
 

Trenton

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As for antibiotics for our animals, I'm not sure what kind they're using bit they are NECESSARY.

Growth horemones or feeding cows corn and shit is awful.

But cows who don't receive antibiotics regularly suffer from uti's and other infections, get abscesses and shit...

All makes for gross meat and gross milk.

I gave my chickens feed with antibiotics because without it my birds could have died. I gave my parakeets antibiotics regularly too.

Wild animals, not domesticated ones, are usually ok in the wild. Nature sorts out the weak and sick from the strong and healthy. Only healthy animals get to breed.

I prefer hunted meat. Deer, fish, fowl, etc.

I consume meat as often as possible. But I seriously wish our animals were treated better.

Do vegans own cats or dogs? What do they feed them? You know Fido is eating horse meat right? Awful, but it is what it is tbh.
 

Haich

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Why do you think it's less?

Factory farming and mass breeding is unnatural though. It's so far removed from actual natural processes, there's no cages in nature. Humans are the predator in this sense but instead of hunting an animal and giving it a fair shot in it's natural habitat, we breed them and keep them in cages to be slaughtered. There are way too many livestock animals on Earth because of humans. The Earth can't sustain them so it's not natural. But even a small farm would be more natural and sustainable.

I agree that we have to start farming animals in a natural/sustainable and more humane way.

What do you mean by this?
Who told you the earth can't sustain them? This is my point, the earth is a perfectly sustainable home for us and animals, there's no such thing as a crowded planet.

I already stated there needs to be a reformation of how we treat animals prior to slaughter, the processes themselves such as stun guns, I also disagree with. The problem is the execution of the slaughter, but there's nothing unethical about eating meat.

You can't compare humus and steak. Meat has much more protein than a chickpea.

There are many environmental benefits to having livestock such as manure to ensure the growth of vegetation.
 

mecca

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As for antibiotics for our animals, I'm not sure what kind they're using bit they are NECESSARY... cows who don't receive antibiotics regularly suffer from uti's and other infections, get abscesses and shit...
It's only necessary because they're held in confined cages with their own feces. The reason animals are getting diseased and dying from health issues is because they're in such terrible conditions in the factories.
Do vegans own cats or dogs? What do they feed them?
Yeah, I think they feed them regular pet food because a cat or a dog has to eat meat to live. I don't think those animals eat vegetables at all.
You know Fido is eating horse meat right? Awful, but it is what it is tbh.
That's gross. Pet food is really nasty, it's like the leftovers of factory farms.
 
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mecca

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Who told you the earth can't sustain them? This is my point, the earth is a perfectly sustainable home for us and animals, there's no such thing as a crowded planet.
Mass breeding has been proven to be unsustainable. Did you know that we literally breed billions of animals per year... it's completely unnatural. The natural populations of these animals would never reach those levels in a normal ecosystem and food chain.

We already have to clear out so many natural habitats for the farm animals to eat and live on. We literally use 30% of the Earth's land to farm animals because we mass breed them. The methane production from all the cows is actually having a negative environmental effect, there's also ammonia pollution. Also all the poop and waste from the animals gets into the ground, water, and even air and degrades the environment. These are just a few examples of how human's actions have messed up the Earth's environment through factory farming. These are real issues, it's the leading cause of environmental degradation... many pollution problems lead back to animal agriculture.
 
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Karlysymon

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Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ear!

I asketh you: is it ethical to eat meat?



Is it ethical to eat meat?

What do you think? Why or why not?

I have some thoughts on the question but I would like to hear what you have to say. If you ask, I'll give my thoughts.
iam not much of a meat-person. But since they eat us, we should them. :D
 

Illuminized

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Never mind ethics or health. It all boils down to this: is it rational to eat meat?

Does the hunter who habitually shoots his target manage to keep his soul apart from it? By taking pleasure in killing the animal, does he not assert his own superiority and see them as mere things, means to an end? I don't have to link to sites to point out that animals have potential to develop consciousness comparable to ours. It's ludicrous to say animals have no souls, especially on the basis of a book such as Ecclesiastes.

It's worth pointing out that the animals which eat vegetables exhibit greater vitality than the so-called predators. It's also worth pointing out that the animals generally consumed by humans are voracious plant eaters. This means that mankind is technically vegetarian.

And what's especially interesting to note is that, according to Suetonius, Nero banned the sale of cooked meals and promoted the sale of vegetables. This apparently minor change in policy would have severely reduced the consumption of meat.

Now would Jesus really have consumed fish? He employed them in many of his parables. Isn't it possible that the accounts of him eating fish have a similar origin?

Lastly, there's the matter of pork. The Jews do well to abstain from it, Porphyry and Julian noted that this was the one thing they never dared to forsake, but the apostle Paul is responsible for overturning this practical precept in the Western world.
 
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elsbet

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Veganism can be very unhealthy, and cause your mind to deteriorate.

Interesting to note, it's been foretold:

1 Timothy 4

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


Crazy, isn't it?
 

Haich

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Well Mecca, as a believer in God, I believe that God makes no mistakes and is perfectly capable of sustaining the current livestock population. So I disagree with your point about sustainability.

With reference to mass farming, again, I did state that there needs to be a reform but if you take into consideration the supply and demand factor, especially in the west, to ensure meat and and animal produce reaches consumers in the time frame we demand, then only solution is mass-farming.

There needs to be more transparency in how we rear and slaughter our livestock but unfortunately it just isn't a grave issue in comparison to other pressing matters such as Brexit, Trump and dare I say it - Palestine.

It took ages for there to be free range chickens and even now you still have that option to buy the cheaper, caged hen eggs. Do people really want to pay more so their food is treated better? Honestly, probably not and that's because they're not aware of the severities these animals experience before they arrive on our plates. There needs to be more education so people are more informed about it.

Halal meat used to be the efficient method of slaughter, but some abattoirs were discretely filmed and shown to have used stun guns which isn't part of the halal slaughter ritual. Tesco, a big supermarket in the U.K., was selling horse meat and passsing it off as other meats for the longest time! So in sum, it's a political issue i think where big companies such as Tesco get away with doing very little to ensure the safety and sustainability of their meat or food sourcing methods.
 

Haich

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Also the cost of living in the west (especially in the U.K.) has risen substantially in comparison to the average house hold income. People are shopping at cheaper stores (shout out to Lidl) and lord knows where they source their meat from.

Good meat costs more and many just don't have the funds. A £3 bag of chicken breasts, the size of Luxembourg, pumped full of all sorts of unholiness is the better option for most.

Seriously some chicken breasts are just massive
 

Kung Fu

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I'm not a big meat-eater and only eat it about twice a week. Most of my protein comes from Greek yogurt, beans, protein powders, and fish. However, I don't have any issues with other people eating it more often but I wouldn't advise it seeing as a lot of problems Americans face is heart disease which is linked to eating a lot of red meat.
 

Haich

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I'm quite blessed to have a Turkish butcher close to my home and though his meat is a bit more expensive than other places, you know he sources it from a reliable seller. His meat smells fresh, tastes good and looks healthy.

In comparison, there are many cowboy butchers further down the town with ill-looking chops and yellow tinged chicken. It's probably a combination of unhygienic standards and sick animals brought wholesale at a cheap price.
 

Illuminized

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Veganism can be very unhealthy, and cause your mind to deteriorate.

Interesting to note, it's been foretold:

1 Timothy 4

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Crazy, isn't it?
Your claim is unfounded. Introduce me to a vegetarian who's lost his sanity and health.

In Col. 2:20-21, Paul is advocating lawlessness and anarchism, which is basically what he was accused of in Rom. 3:8, the Sabbatean and Frankist sects being prominent examples of that mentality. It's obvious that no community can function without laws, even the most primitive ones. None are excluded from this, not even the Jewish community. The ten commandments, despite their primitive simplicity, have provided the West with a stable foundation. These obligations were conceived by people who possessed some semblance of reason. To say otherwise is to deny a providence.
 
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Kung Fu

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Your claim is unfounded. Introduce me to a vegetarian who's lost his sanity and health.

In Col. 2:20-21, Paul is advocating lawlessness and anarchism, which is basically what he was accused of in Rom. 3:8, the Sabbatean and Frankist sects being prominent examples of that mentality. It's obvious that no community can function without laws, even the most primitive ones. None are excluded from this, not even the Jewish community. To say otherwise is to deny a providence. These obligations were conceived by people who had some semblance of reason.
One of my training partners in BJJ and wrestling is a vegan and he has one of the tightest grips I have ever felt and he's just as lean and shredded as me (a semi meat-eater). Clearly being a vegan only seems to have benefited him.
 

The Zone

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I would still venture to say that the top athletes have meat in their diet but not all. Genetics comes into play with how ripped some are and what diet they can survive and thrive on. Where I am from local butchers can help keep you away from Frankenchickin' breasts which are unnaturally large. They also have meats which are from animals which are fed and housed properly.

All in all, I simply think any choice is okay, be it vegan or meat eaters. But there should be concern for how meats are produced, etc. All in all the world is lucky with its population issues not to be starving and it will only get worse. To control the food sources is exuding control over humans. And FWIW, clean drinkable water will one day be a major issue. Water is the one thing we must have. I am not a preper but a large stash of water might be a wise move.

But be thankful for the food we do have...we could have those little bars of protein like in the Matrix. And starving people would not have the choices we currently do. God or whatever you believe in made us so that we need food intake to survive. He intended something to go down the hatch.
 
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Illuminized

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All in all, I simply think any choice is okay, be it vegan or meat eaters.
For the time being, certainly. There's no need to force people to go vegan, vegetarian is sufficient. Vegans tend to be more dogmatic and incapable of understanding, they end up nutty. But people must come to understand that vegetarianism is an inevitable course of action for all human beings. It should be noted that the prophet Mohammed and the American founding father Thomas Jefferson ate meat in moderation and were inclined towards vegetables.

But there should be concern for how meats are produced, etc. All in all the world is lucky with its population issues not to be starving and it will only get worse. To control the food sources is exuding control over humans. And FWIW, clean drinkable water will one day be a major issue. Water is the one thing we must have. I am not a prepper but a large stash of water mught be a wise move.
Birds might be ok to eat, but consumption of terrestrials like pork and cattle and aquatics like fish and shark should be reduced or eliminated. The former are closer to us (mammals) and the latter are vital to the ecosystem.
 

Kung Fu

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For the time being, certainly. There's no need to force people to go vegan, vegetarian is sufficient. Vegans tend to be more dogmatic and incapable of understanding, they end up nutty. But people must come to understand that vegetarianism is an inevitable course of action for all human beings. It should be noted that the prophet Mohammed and the American founding father Thomas Jefferson ate meat in moderation and were inclined towards vegetables.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to be a vegetarian sooner or later seeing how little meat I actually eat. What's stopping me is my wife because she loves her meat.

Illuminized, what faith do you follow if you don't mind me asking?
 
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