Is it Ethical to Eat Meat?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Etagloc, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ear!

    I asketh you: is it ethical to eat meat?

    [​IMG]

    Is it ethical to eat meat?

    What do you think? Why or why not?

    I have some thoughts on the question but I would like to hear what you have to say. If you ask, I'll give my thoughts.
     

  2. Haich

    Haich Star

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    As long as the animal is slaughtered in a careful manner which doesn't prolong its suffering, I think it's perfectly ethical.

    The real question for me is why don't we source our meat from reliable sources and make sure suppliers are treating them well? It was only recently that free range eggs became a thing, why can't we apply the same high standards to our meat?

    Is it ethical to eat plants? I mean, this notion of ethics can be applied to anything and there'll be someone with a picket sign campaigning. With regards to sustainability, livestock can't simply just flourish and be left alone, there'd be a lot of environmental consequences but also our health would eventually dwindle, chickepeas and beans don't provide enough protein to sustain the human body's need for it. Vegans usually look malnourished for a reason!

    I believe meat is essential but in moderation, like any other food.
     
  3. Vixy

    Vixy Star

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    No. It's never ethical for an intelligent species who knows of alternatives, to murder animals. We'd do fine on vegetarian food. If huge animals like elephants, gorillas and others five times our size can live off and enjoy vegetarian foods, so can we!

    But the egocentrical human will always come up with excuses to eat animals.
     
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  4. mecca

    mecca Star

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    It's not "ethical" but it is natural. But it can only be considered natural if the animal is treated fairly on a small farm and not factory farmed. Factory farming is cruel and it's definitely immoral. Capitalism treats everything like a commodity to profit off of and companies disregard the innocent lives of the animals but they are living beings and deserve to be respected. The capitalist mentality towards animals is unethical.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
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  5. mecca

    mecca Star

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    It's certainly more ethical than eating an animal. Animals have feelings and emotions and can feel pain but plants can't. Plus, since we need to grow plants to feed all the animals we farm, there are more plants being eaten and dying when animals are farmed and eaten rather than plants.
    But science says that people can live healthily on a vegan diet. People who have studied the human body and nutrition in food have determined that people can get all the nutrients they need from a vegan diet. That doesn't mean that every single human necessarily can or has to but it's still true.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
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  6. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    Oh wow. I actually didn't realize this would be so polarizing. I thought more people would be on the pro-eat animals side.

    Let's see....

    okay, so we acknowledge it is natural. yet it's unethical?

    I mean I guess this is not really about veganism/vegetarianism at this point because I'm looking at it from a larger framework, regarding the nature of nature.....

    I guess this is something Islam and Christianity disagree about. If I understand correctly, Islam teaches that we are born pure and sinless. And Christianity from what I understand teaches original sin.

    As far as this issue, I believe in Islam's position. It is in our nature and the will of God that we eat animals.

    Elephants are not responsible for running the planet. We are responsible for running the planet. So we have to take care of our health. And we are the natural rulers of this planet- not because animals are inferior but because.... animals simply are not equipped to run the planet. It's not like we oppress and prevent them from learning how to read. It is simply nature.

    My understanding is this.... we have to go along with nature. People who are in tune with nature, who are in harmony with nature- I think that is a healthy ideal.

    I think it is when we decide we're going to against nature and work against nature, to violate nature and go against harmony with nature... I think that's when Pandora's box gets opened and things get weird.

    So... I say work with nature. When we are in accordance with the Tao or nature or.... I forget what the Islamic term for our divinely-sourced, true, innate nature is... in any case, when we're with this, when we're with natural law... I think things are good.

    So... for me it goes back to natural law. I believe in natural law and being natural. I think it's when we decide we know better than nature that things get weird. Transhumanism and GMO crops, for example.

    I would describe myself as a moderate in this issue. I think eating meat is natural and healthy and God-ordained. But abstaining from meat might benefit some people spiritually. I think it should be open to people as a path.

    On the other hand, I don't think we should be vegan fundamentalists. I don't think we should tell people they have an obligation to not eat meat. I believe that is what science might refer to as "cuckoo".

    So... eat meat or don't meat. You have both available to you. I agree with Paul on this:

    2 One person believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

    3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


    -Romans 14: 2-3

    I mean I am totally open to the possibility that veganism may lead to heavenly extra-credit. But... Jesus ate fish, if I'm not mistaken. If Jesus can eat meat, then I think I can eat meat without losing sleep. I have respect, though, for the discipline that vegans have. I admire it.

    On the other hand.... note how... it seems to me that Paul is associating it with weakness. Haich also suggested this. So if two people from two totally different points of view arrive at the same conclusion... it's something to be considered, I think- at least in general.
     
  7. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    I think everyone here has emphasized respect for animals. I think this is completely compatible with Haich's assertion that we should kill them in as humane a way as possible.
     
  8. mecca

    mecca Star

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    Lol that's probably true. It's like extra credit.
     
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  9. mecca

    mecca Star

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    Yeah which is why we have to change the way we do it now because factory farming is inhumane and very unsustainable.

    There's nothing wrong with eating meat if we farm them in the most humane way. Meat can be healthy in moderation.
     
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  10. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    "Science". I don't trust "science".

    I think "science" is like a modern religion and scientists are like its priests.

    When we talk about "the divine Word" of science.... we really mean the utterances of the priest-caste.

    And I think our scientific priest-caste is full of lies. I don't trust them and since they're the voice of "science", I don't trust "science".

    Look at Richard Dawkins. He most certainlh is of that cult and I think he's crazy.

    It is funny because statistics so often are made to serve the interests of the powerful.

    So are we to trust direct experience or "science"? I am with Haich on this.... if Haich is correct that vegans tend to be unhealthy, I care about actual reality and not how things work in theory. We live in reality and not theory. Theory is to serve reality- not the other way around.
     
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  11. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    Oh okay, so we're pretty much on the same page then.
     
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  12. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    I'm just glad you're not a vegan fundamentalist. I tried to date a girl once who was a vegan fundamentalist who wanted to impose vegan-shariah law on the entire world. I was having post-traumatic flashblacks of her fanaticism.
     
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  13. mecca

    mecca Star

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    Ok but the reality is that vegans are healthy. If vegans couldn't survive healthily on a vegan diet then people wouldn't be vegan. The fact is that veganism is possible for a lot of people. Vegans have doctors too and if they were actually harming their bodies, then their doctors would tell them that their diet isn't healthy for them.
     
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  14. mecca

    mecca Star

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    Lol no one can force people to eat a certain way. I'm not even fully vegan but I eat plant based and don't have meat often. But there is nothing wrong with being vegan... it is a healthy option.
     
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  15. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    Well okay so we both agree- we have to go off the basis of how veganism is actually affecting people in practice.

    What I have to say here is... I have no idea.

    I am deeply disturbed by the encroachment of vegan fundamentalists. What if ISIS are actually vegans and that's why they're in such a bad mood. It's funny how the MSM won't even consider these possibilites.

    But yeah.... it would be interesting if we could just snatch random meat-eaters and vegans off the street and see which are healthier. I'm sure someone has studied the matter..... but like I said, I'm suspicious of scientists.

    So I really have no idea as far as whether it's healthy or not. I believe in eating animals, though.

    If you eat a cow- isn't it possible that you will receive the cow's strength? I mean I guess this means also that eating chicken might turn you into a chicken.... but still.... it's something to consider.
     
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  16. mecca

    mecca Star

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    The meat lobby is a thing and they try to downplay the harmfulness of what the meat industry does. We have to remember that it is an industry and the companies are only out for profit, they don't care about the animals or the consumers of the animals. They put a bunch of chemicals and antibiotics in the animals and factory farm them, it's bad for the animals and bad for humans. In America people's diets are really bad. There is a real risk of health issues from overly excessive meat consumption, especially because the meat is factory farmed. People also don't have enough plants in their diet, we need a balanced diet with all the nutrients necessary for health.
     
  17. Trenton

    Trenton Veteran

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    We are literally not herbivores, we are not gorillas nor are we even related to them.
     
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  18. Haich

    Haich Star

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    I don't deny that vegans can get protein from other sources but it's never equatable to meat. So why give your body less protein? So a few more cows can survive? Very weak argument in my opinion.

    You can't compare animal suffering to human suffering too. Animals are either predators or prey, it's their nature. The animals we eat are eaten by predators everyday, so cows, sheep, goats are created to serve us in a nutritional sense, but also an environmental sense.

    It's funny because people who are vegetarian (not you Mecca but in general) are quick to say oh it's unethical to slaughter meat but it's perfectly fine to drink and commercialise milk from cow udders which arguably, should be for the calves- since that's the ethical use of cow's milk.

    I believe in the reformation of how animals are slaughtered, what's unethical is the practice of slaughter as institutions hardly ever take into consideration the treatment of the animal. They're more concerned with mass production which I blame on the global financial greed we have as humans.

    I think our diets need to be balanced, so extreme meat eaters and extreme anti- meat eaters are both problematic.
     
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  19. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    Okay, that's good, Mecca. I have a terror of waking up in a vegan dystopia.

    "You are a meat-eater? You are a bad person! Only bad people eat meat- or want to eat meat."

    "What were you thinking about?" "Nothing! Nothing! I uhhhh.... was thinking about Jesus! Yeah, Jesus!" "You liar! You were thinking about eating meat- weren't you! You horrible evil person!"

    Police be like: "Suspect is wearing a black hoodie.... he is known by the alias 'Etagloc'.... we have reason to believe he may be involved in the underground beef trade. This document contains photograph proof of the young man eating... what appears to be a hamburger. We cannot allow this. Call the SWAT team. He's going down".
     
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  20. Etagloc

    Etagloc Star

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    I think this is important because I think there is a sort of religious undertone.

    I don't think the issue can be totally understood in a secular way. I think we have to look at it in the context of religious understanding.

    My theory is.... the super hardcore vegan people.... I think it's a form of safe radicalism. It's a way for people to feel very radical without actually being a threat to the system. That is my understanding of it.

    Mecca criticitized capitalism directly and I think you've also criticized it here, albeit slightly more indirectly.

    In any case- I think people instinctively understand that things cannot continue as they are, that the status quo cannot continue indefinitely and we need some form of change on a fundamental level.

    And so we feel a sort of.... imperative to at least desire to change the system. And I think that veganism is for people a safe outlet for this pent-up radical energy. A way to unleash it in a safe direction and i think that's why some can be very militant about it. But ultimately it doesn't really threaten the system.
     
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