Is God Particular?

[phipps]

@Lyfe

I would encourage you to do a study on regeneration and what it is. Not only regeneration, but covenant theology and the faithfulness God promised to David. God promised to punish and chastise David if he went astray, but to also never remove his love toward him.

And I would encourage to stop dismissing whole parts of the Bible about obedience because they don't fit in with your doctrine. You cannot pick and choose which part of the Bible is convenient based on what you were taught. We should accept the truth of the entire Bible even when it goes against what we are taught in Church. The Bible is the infallible Word of God not what we are taught in church.

I have literally shown you scripture that says that true love to God doesn’t exist without obedience. Here is another one, “Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me” (John 14:23-24).

And please stop putting words in my mouth. Where have I said God removes His love from us when we disobey? Clearly God did not stop loving David, its in the Bible for everyone to see. God loves us but He cannot stand our sin. He works hard through the Holy Spirit to get us to choose him, repent and comeback to Him even after we've fallen. He never gives up on us. He is not willing that any of us should perish.

Your theology teaches that we work synergistically in compliance to God by the help of the holy spirit. Salvation is an act of God that changes someone at the very core of their nature. Desires to obey and please God dont even come from you. They are God given and a result of being changed inwardly by the holy ghost. If you had not been changed you would have zero desire for the things of God or to live a Godly life. You dont comply with them. Therefore its important to acknowledge those desires for what they are and who they come from and not attribute them to something within yourself that lead you to work with God.

Everything we do and have after we come to Christ is from God. After we are saved by grace our belief, trust, faith, love etc is all God given and leads us to obey God's will as is taught in the Bible as I've shown you from the Bible. We are changed and sanctified as long as we continue to submit to Christ until He returns the second time. God give us free will and He cannot force Himself on us can He? That would be against His principles of love. We have to give God consent to come into our hearts.

They are a part of you in your very nature and a result of being regenerated. God has removed your heart of stone and replaced it with a completely new heart to know him, he has put his spirit within you. You are a new man. A new creature. You have a new nature. This is what results in your new attitude toward sin and God, and as a result you do the things of God. You dont comply with your own nature. You do according to it, because its your nature.

The new attitude towards sin involves realising our sinfulness, repenting and stopping to sin because sin is the breaking of God's law. When we stop breaking the law, we are obeying God are we not? That is part of what makes us a new creature in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:19 says, "Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

And Jesus was very clear on obedience when He said in Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

 

[Lyfe]

@phipps

I hold that a born again Christian will produce the fruits of the spirit, against such there is NO law. One doesnt need to tell a tree to produce fruit, it naturally will. That is essentially the difference between what you and I believe. You believe in synergism while I believe monergism is closer to the truth. You believe in compliance whereas I believe that when a person gets saved they are forever changed and God treats them as a son, he puts his fear of him in them hearts for their own good and if they go astray and somehow manage to drift pass the point of conviction and grieving the spirit through their sin then God will chastise them so they know obediance like his word promises, even to the point of the destruction of the flesh like he did the one Corinthian(though his soul was saved). You dont need to tell a good tree to produce good fruit, because it will just do so without being told. I would use more examples of scripture if I wasnt on a phone and if it wasnt such an inconvenience.

The law can do nothing except reveal sin. Even you stand guilty according to the same law you promote others to obey. Jesus said to obey HIS commandments, but if you read until the end of what he said to his disciples you will find out what HIS commandment acctually is.


John 13:31-35

A New Commandment
31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, (A)“Now is the Son of Man glorified, and (B)God is glorified in him. 32 If God is glorified in him, (C)God will also glorify him in himself, and (D)glorify him at once. 33 Little children, (E)yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just (F)as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ 34 (G)A new commandment (H)I give to you, (I)that you love one another: (J)just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 (K)By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


John 15:10-17


10 (A)If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as (B)I have kept (C)my Father's commandments and abide in his love.11 These things I have spoken to you, (D)that my joy may be in you, and that (E)your joy may be full.
12 (F)“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 (G)Greater love has no one than this, (H)that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are (I)my friends (J)if you do what I command you.15 (K)No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant (L)does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for (M)all that I have heard from my Father (N)I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but (O)I chose you and appointed you that you should go and (P)bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that (Q)whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, (R)so that you will love one another.


1 John 3:11-24
English Standard Version


Love One Another
11 For (A)this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, (B)that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like (C)Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? (D)Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers,[a] (E)that the world hates you. 14 We know that (F)we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 (G)Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that (H)no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
16 By this we know love, that (I)he laid down his life for us, and (J)we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 17 But (K)if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet (L)closes his heart against him, (M)how does God's love abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not (N)love in word or talk but in deed and (O)in truth.
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, (P)if our heart does not condemn us, (Q)we have confidence before God;22 and (R)whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and (S)do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, (T)that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and (U)love one another, (V)just as he has commanded us. 24 (W)Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,[b] and God[c] in him. And (X)by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Love is the commandment Jesus is referring to and it is a fruit of the spirit, meaning it doesnt come from you. It is something that the holy spirit brings forth, naturally(if he is in someone). This is what Jesus meant when he says he called us to "bear fruit." The fruit of the spirit of such there is no law.

 

[phipps]

@phipps

I hold that a born again Christian will produce the fruits of the spirit, against such there is NO law. One doesnt need to tell a tree to produce fruit, it naturally will. That is essentially the difference between what you and I believe. You believe in synergism while I believe monergism is closer to the truth. You believe in compliance whereas I believe that when a person gets saved they are forever changed and God treats them as a son, he puts his fear of him in them hearts for their own good and if they go astray and somehow manage to drift pass the point of conviction and grieving the spirit through their sin then God will chastise them so they know obediance like his word promises, even to the point of the destruction of the flesh like he did the one Corinthian(though his soul was saved). You dont need to tell a good tree to produce good fruit, because it will just do so without being told. I would use more examples of scripture if I wasnt on a phone and if it wasnt such an inconvenience.

The law can do nothing except reveal sin. Even you stand guilty according to the same law you promote others to obey. Jesus said to obey HIS commandments, but if you read until the end of what he said to his disciples you will find out what HIS commandment acctually is.


John 13:31-35

A New Commandment
31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, (A)“Now is the Son of Man glorified, and (B)God is glorified in him. 32 If God is glorified in him, (C)God will also glorify him in himself, and (D)glorify him at once. 33 Little children, (E)yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just (F)as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ 34 (G)A new commandment (H)I give to you, (I)that you love one another: (J)just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 (K)By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


John 15:10-17


10 (A)If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as (B)I have kept (C)my Father's commandments and abide in his love.11 These things I have spoken to you, (D)that my joy may be in you, and that (E)your joy may be full.
12 (F)“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 (G)Greater love has no one than this, (H)that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are (I)my friends (J)if you do what I command you.15 (K)No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant (L)does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for (M)all that I have heard from my Father (N)I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but (O)I chose you and appointed you that you should go and (P)bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that (Q)whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, (R)so that you will love one another.


1 John 3:11-24
English Standard Version


Love One Another
11 For (A)this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, (B)that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like (C)Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? (D)Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers,[a] (E)that the world hates you. 14 We know that (F)we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 (G)Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that (H)no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
16 By this we know love, that (I)he laid down his life for us, and (J)we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 17 But (K)if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet (L)closes his heart against him, (M)how does God's love abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not (N)love in word or talk but in deed and (O)in truth.
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, (P)if our heart does not condemn us, (Q)we have confidence before God;22 and (R)whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and (S)do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, (T)that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and (U)love one another, (V)just as he has commanded us. 24 (W)Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,[b] and God[c] in him. And (X)by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Love is the commandment Jesus is referring to and it is a fruit of the spirit, meaning it doesnt come from you. It is something that the holy spirit brings forth, naturally(if he is in someone). This is what Jesus meant when he says he called us to "bear fruit." The fruit of the spirit of such there is no law.

I believe in the truth of God's Word that embraces all His Word not just some of it. I don't care what doctrine you believe in, its wrong and not according to God's truth.

Love is the commandment Jesus is referring to and it is a fruit of the spirit, meaning it doesnt come from you. It is something that the holy spirit brings forth, naturally(if he is in someone). This is what Jesus meant when he says he called us to "bear fruit." The fruit of the spirit of such there is no law.

I disagree as I've already explained a lot and you are twisting God's Word here to fit in with your doctrine. Jesus has been clear in a lot of scripture that we have to obey the law. Not only that, He too obeyed the law and He is our greatest example of how to live in this world while completely being submitted to God. So I will believe the Bible over what you say. I pray that God reveals His truth to you and that the Holy Spirit enlightens all of us on this very important subject. God bless.

 

[phipps]

Obedience is seen as a positive thing in the Bible.

Many Christians are taught that its impossible to be completely obedient to God. They view obedience as restrictive and against their freedom. Obedience is associated with subjugation to God and His law. So they view Christians who say we should be obedient as the Bible teaches as being legalist and therefore negative.

However the Bible teaches that being obedient is actually a positive thing. The consequences of being obedient to God and His will are positive and very beneficial to us in this world and in the New kingdom.

God has made incredible promises and has linked them to our obedience, it’s the “if,” and “then,” promises of the Bible. If we obey what He says, then He promises that He’ll save us, watch over us, take care of us, and give to us our needs.

If we follow God’s directions then we’ll be happy, live longer, lack nothing that is good, live in perfect freedom, have greater wisdom, dwell in peace and security, joy, have success and prosper, and be great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Lyfe]

I believe in the truth of God's Word that embraces all His Word not just some of it. I don't care what doctrine you believe in, its wrong and not according to God's truth.


I disagree as I've already explained a lot and you are twisting God's Word here to fit in with your doctrine. Jesus has been clear in a lot of scripture that we have to obey the law. Not only that, He too obeyed the law and He is our greatest example of how to live in this world while completely being submitted to God. So I will believe the Bible over what you say. I pray that God reveals His truth to you and that the Holy Spirit enlighten all of us on this very important subject. God bless.

Acts 15:1-29
King James Version


15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of theLord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[Lyfe]

The spirit gives life and the letter(of the law) kills. Thats why Paul refers to it as the ministration or condemnation and death. You are more of a sinner under the light of the law then you are a righteous person. Striivng isnt enough, you must perform. If there were 100 laws and you kept 97 of them you break them all.

 

[Bubbajay]

Some people can't fathom the idea that their works or obedience has nothing to do with salvation. They even try and claim good works is proof of salvation, and if you don't have good works, you're not saved. God commands every believer to go out in the world and do good works after salvation, but not all sons of God are obediant. Does that mean God will disown his children? No, that's where the rod of chastising comes in like Hebrews says, and if you're disobedient and don't receive chastening you're a bastard and not saved to begin with.


This has always been my favorite verses of the bible. It proves works have no play in salvation. It says TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[phipps]

Scripture on Blessings of Obedience.

Obedience develops Christian character and produces a sense of well-being, causing the believers to grow up as "newborn babes" and to be transformed into Christ's image (1 Peter 2:2; 2 Corinthians 3:18). This transformation from sinner to God's child witnesses effectively to Christ's power.

Scripture pronounces:

Psalms 119:1, "Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord!"

Psalms 1:2, "But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night."

The blessings of obedience are many, here are some of them:

We receive insight and wisdom.
Psalms 119:98-99, "You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies; For they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation."

Peace.
Psalms 119:165, "Great peace have those who love Your law, And nothing causes them to stumble."

Isaiah 48:18, "Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea."

Righteousness
Deuteronomy 6:25, "Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.’ "

Isaiah 48:18, "Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea."

A pure and moral life
Proverbs 7:1-5, "My son, keep my words, And treasure my commands within you. Keep my commands and live, And my law as the apple of your eye. Bind them on your fingers; Write them on the tablet of your heart. Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,” And call understanding your nearest kin, That they may keep you from the immoral woman, From the seductress who flatters with her words."

Knowledge of the truth
John 7:17, "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."

Protection against disease
Exodus 15:26, "and said, “If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”

Longevity
Proverbs 3:1-2, "My son, do not forget my law, But let your heart keep my commands; For length of days and long life and peace they will add to you."

Proverbs 4:10, 22, "Hear, my son, and receive my sayings, and the years of your life will be many....For they are life to those who find them,
and health to all their flesh."

Assurance that one's prayers will be answered
Proverbs 28:9, "One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."

John 15:7, "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

John 9:31, "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him."

1 John 3:22, "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

Inviting us to obedience, God promises abundant blessings (Leviticus 26:3-10; Deuteronomy 28:1-12). When we respond positively, we become His "special treasure"—a "kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exodus 19:5-6; cf. 1 Peter 2:5, 9), elevated "above all nations of the earth," "the head and not the tail" (Deuteronomy. 28:1, 13).

 

[Lyfe]

Some people can't fathom the idea that their works or obedience has nothing to do with salvation. They even try and claim good works is proof of salvation, and if you don't have good works, you're not saved. God commands every believer to go out in the world and do good works after salvation, but not all sons of God are obediant. Does that mean God will disown his children? No, that's where the rod of chastising comes in like Hebrews says, and if you're disobedient and don't receive chastening you're a bastard and not saved to begin with.


This has always been my favorite verses of the bible. It proves works have no play in salvation. It says TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

I hold the conviction that works and obediance doesnt grant or maintain someones place in the kingdom of God, but if someone is truly filled with the spirit of God and a new creature in Christ then they will come to bear spiritual fruit. That is a result of biblical salvation and regeneration. Sanctification is a process, but an inevitable and unavoidable reality as a saint. God said he would give us a heart to know him and put his fear of him in our hearts. I believe as a born again Christian that sin just wears us out and grieves us through the spirit, it is contrary to our new nature. I used to be an addict and God was true to his word and covenant faithfulness to interevene and deliver me. There are times I resisted the holy ghost and hardened my heart and sure enough God was faithful again to seek me out like the sheep who went astray and afflict me until I submitted and learned righteousness. If you are a true son or daughter there is no way around sanctification and eventually bearing fruit. God leads you to his word and burns away the impurities by it, his fear and awareness of his holiness is always there to keep his child from the evil path. It may take a few months and it may even take years, but Gods people will bear fruits one way or another. How can they escape the fear of him that he has put in their hearts knowing that rebellion leads to calamity and the rod of his correction? How can they go on in misery grieving the holy spirit? How can they escape the chastisement of God? How can they deny their own nature and live in habitual sin? God is at work in them. He dictates their paths, his eyes are ever before them, he watches as a father from the distance. Jesus told his disciples that he chose them to bear fruit. If someone is indwelt by the holy ghost then one way or another we will be yieled and humbled into submission so the fruit of the spirit will manifest. Its like I said before you dont need to tell a good tree to bear fruit. It does it naturally. The same is true for Gods covenant people who are his prized possesion. He does with them as he pleases, he waters and leads, he afflicts if need be until righteousness is learned and one yields to him so the spirit will do what he is meant to do which is bear fruit in us. I have learned time and time again that God has a way of bringing his people into submission and refining them. We eventually just yield and in doing so the fruit of the spirit begins to manifest and take the lead. Works(fruit of the spirit) is God working in and through us by the holy ghost.

 

[phipps]

Christ and the Law.

Christ had the highest regard for the ten-commandment law. As the great "I AM," He Himself proclaimed the Father's moral law from Sinai (John 8:58; Exodus 3:14). Part of His mission on earth was to "magnify the law and make it honorable" (Isaiah 42:21). A passage from the Psalms that the New Testament applies to Christ makes clear His attitude toward the law: "I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart" (Psalms 40:8).

His gospel produced a faith that firmly upheld the validity of the Decalogue. Said Paul, Do we "make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law" (Romans 3:31).

So Christ came not only to redeem man but to vindicate the authority and holiness of the law of God, presenting its magnificence and glory before the people and giving them an example of how to relate to it. As His followers, Christians are called to magnify God's law in their lives. Having lived a life of loving obedience Himself, Christ stressed that His followers ought to be commandment keepers. When asked about the requirements for eternal life, He replied, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). He also warned against the violation of this principle, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " Lawbreakers will be refused entrance (Matthew 7:21-23).

Christ Himself fulfilled the law, not by destroying it but through a life of obedience. "For assuredly" He said, "I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (Matthew 5:18). Christ strongly emphasized that the grand object of God's law must always be kept in mind: "to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37-38). However, He wanted His followers not to love one another as the world interprets love—selfishly or sentimentally. To explain the love He spoke of, Christ gave a "new commandment" (John 13:34). This new commandment was not to take the place of the Decalogue, but to provide believers with an example of what true unselfish love really is, such love as had never before been witnessed on the earth. In this sense His commandment might be described as new. It charged them, not simply "that ye love one another,' but 'that ye love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12).

Strictly speaking, we have here simply one more evidence of how Christ magnified His Father's laws.

 

[Lyfe]

Indeed the law will never pass away. The law is all that is required of someone to be perfectly righteous before God. It is the perfect, immutable, and holy standard of God one has to keep without fail to be righteous. I mean technically, if someone kept all the law they could go before God and have the perfect righteousness required to enter into heaven. Christ fulfilled the law. He was THE FULFILLMENT of the law. Everything in the law pointed to him and he was the reality that the shadowy substance of the law testified of. He is the only one to ever live that has kept the law perfectly. If there were 100 laws and you kept 99 then you are a lawbreaker and broke all 100(James 2:10). That is the holiness and perfection of the law.

The law wont pass away meaning it will always stand as what is acctually required to be righteous before God. Perfect obediance without fail, but as was witnessed at the fall all it took was one SIN to lose all righteousness and become banished from the presence of God. That is the bad news for us humans. Nobody has acctually ever kept the law except Christ.

Thats why all the striving to keep the law is meaning less, because it cant make you any more or less righteous if you are already covered by the PERFECT righteousness of Christ. You cant add or take away from a perfect righteousness that is required for heaven. It is something God gives as a free gift. Does that mean a Christian can live in habitual carnality when he gets saved and count on the righteousness of Christ to save him? People who have this mindset that its ok to live like this continually were never acctually purchased by Christ, their heart has never been regenerated. The works someone does as a regenerate holy spirit filled child of God are a result of God at work in them, their nature is changed and rather than being bound to follow a law they just do according to their new nature, because its their nature. They are still Christs and it is his righteousness that he has given to justify them. He can impute it to whomever he will. If they are Christs any change and fruit will be a result of him and how he changed them inwardly, it wont be the law written on stone tablets. The law is external regulation whereas the holy spirit brings forth supernatural transformation that changes a persons nature.

People promote the law as if it can acctually paint them in a favorable light. It doesn't matter how much they think they keep the law, if it isnt kept perfectly all that righteousness becomes unrighteousness and said person is a "lawbreaker." You must obey it perfectly without fail, and if you fail in one point you are a lawbreaker. There is no in between.

Its like Paul said the law is not made for the righteous person, because it cant affect the sort of change like the holy spirit and regeneration does. The law was made for the lawless, ungodly, and sinners(unsaved and unregenerate). What can the law profit someone who has been supernaturally changed and regnerated?

It wasnt the law that helped me or delivered me from my sins. It was the power of God through the holy spirit. It wasnt the law that made me hate my sins. It was the power of God through the holy spirit. Amen. It wasnt the law that made me love God or gave me desires for the things of God. It was the power and change brought about by the holy spirit. Thr holy spirit is the real circumcision so we should act like it.

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Philipians 3:3

We have liberty(power over sin) in the spirit. Where the spirit of the lord is there is liberty. We are free(empowered over sin) in Christ. Not by the law, but by the holy ghost that he has given us.


Romans 8:1-5
King James Version


8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Bubbajay]

I hold the conviction that works and obediance doesnt grant or maintain someones place in the kingdom of God, but if someone is truly filled with the spirit of God and a new creature in Christ then they will come to bear spiritual fruit. That is a result of biblical salvation and regeneration. Sanctification is a process, but an inevitable and unavoidable reality as a saint. God said he would give us a heart to know him and put his fear of him in our hearts. I believe as a born again Christian that sin just wears us out and grieves us through the spirit, it is contrary to our new nature. I used to be an addict and God was true to his word and covenant faithfulness to interevene and deliver me. There are times I resisted the holy ghost and hardened my heart and sure enough God was faithful again to seek me out like the sheep who went astray and afflict me until I submitted and learned righteousness. If you are a true son or daughter there is no way around sanctification and eventually bearing fruit. God leads you to his word and burns away the impurities by it, his fear and awareness of his holiness is always there to keep his child from the evil path. It may take a few months and it may even take years, but Gods people will bear fruits one way or another. How can they escape the fear of him that he has put in their hearts knowing that rebellion leads to calamity and the rod of his correction? How can they go on in misery grieving the holy spirit? How can they escape the chastisement of God? How can they deny their own nature and live in habitual sin? God is at work in them. He dictates their paths, his eyes are ever before them, he watches as a father from the distance. Jesus told his disciples that he chose them to bear fruit. If someone is indwelt by the holy ghost then one way or another we will be yieled and humbled into submission so the fruit of the spirit will manifest. Its like I said before you dont need to tell a good tree to bear fruit. It does it naturally. The same is true for Gods covenant people who are his prized possesion. He does with them as he pleases, he waters and leads, he afflicts if need be until righteousness is learned and one yields to him so the spirit will do what he is meant to do which is bear fruit in us. I have learned time and time again that God has a way of bringing his people into submission and refining them. We eventually just yield and in doing so the fruit of the spirit begins to manifest and take the lead. Works(fruit of the spirit) is God working in and through us by the holy ghost.

Sanctification (make holy) is not a process. When a person believes the gospel, and calls on the name of the Lord he is saved, and the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to him. Paul calls it "putting on Christ". Its impossible for man to be made holy through works or obediance, our righteousness is like filthy rags in the eyes of God.

 

[Lyfe]

Sanctification (make holy) is not a process. When a person believes the gospel, and calls on the name of the Lord he is saved, and the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to him. Paul calls it "putting on Christ". Its impossible for man to be made holy through works or obediance, our righteousness is like filthy rags in the eyes of God.

Justification and regeneration are instantaneous, but sanctification is something God does to his saints all throughout their earthly life. He sanctifies us by his word, by the spirit, by trials and circumstsnces, by refining. It doesnt end so long as we draw breath. His entire purpose is to make us like Christ according to his sovereignty and good pleasure.

 

[Bubbajay]

Justification and regeneration are instantaneous, but sanctification is something God does to his saints all throughout their earthly life. He sanctifies us by his word, by the spirit, by trials and circumstsnces, by refining. It doesnt end so long as we draw breath. His entire purpose is to make us like Christ according to his sovereignty and good pleasure.

Biblical holiness is when the believer sets himself apart solely for God. When a person constantly has Jesus on his mind from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed. Someone whos constantly talking about God and his Word. His laws and precepts. Its not actions or deeds.

 

[Lyfe]

Biblical holiness is when the believer sets himself apart solely for God. When a person constantly has Jesus on his mind from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed. Someone whos constantly talking about God and his Word. His laws and precepts. Its not actions or deeds.

I never mentioned actions or deeds, but sanctification is different from what you are talking about. It is God(through the spirit) that works in us. He will lead us in works that God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are his workmanship. If someone has truly been converted then they should bear the fruit of the spirit. This can take time though depending on the person. Then again It may not take long at all. God is sovereign over their life and is the author and finisher of their salvation. Works are an evidence of faith and not the other way around, but its God who works in us to bring the kingdom come. If someone has true faith(the kind that has saved and converted the soul) then it will show when the spirit bears his fruit through us.

 

[Bubbajay]

I never mentioned actions or deeds, but sanctification is different from what you are talking about. It is God(through the spirit) that works in us. He will lead us in works that God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are his workmanship. If someone has truly been converted then they should bear the fruit of the spirit. This can take time though depending on the person. Then again It may not take long at all. God is sovereign over their life and is the author and finisher of their salvation. Works are an evidence of faith and not the other way around, but its God who works in us to bring the kingdom come. If someone has true faith(the kind that has saved and converted the soul) then it will show when the spirit bears his fruit through us.

Sanctify means to set apart solely for God.

Works are only the evidence of faith in the eyes of man. The bible gives the example of Rahab the harlot who showed her faith by her works when she hid the spies. She was still a harlot in the end even though she was saved. Sometimes people don't always obey God. By your reasoning she should habe ceased from being a harlot after she believed, but she didnt.

 

[Lyfe]

Sanctify means to set apart solely for God.

Works are only the evidence of faith in the eyes of man. The bible gives the example of Rahab the harlot who showed her faith by her works when she hid the spies. She was still a harlot in the end even though she was saved. Sometimes people don't always obey God. By your reasoning she should habe ceased from being a harlot after she believed, but she didnt.

Im saying that Biblical salvation is regeneration. Part of the promises of biblical salvation is that God would give his people a heart to know him, he would put his fear of him in their hearts for their good, he comes into them by the holy spirit, he gives them a new nature making them into a new man and creature in Christ. He adopts us as a son or daughter and will chastise us when do wickedly before him. This is what salvation is according to the Bible. Its being changed inwardly and supernaturally by the power of God. If someone dies as the same person they were when they claim to have been saved then thats not biblical salvation. That is a false conversion. God is a powerful God. When he comes into someone and adopts them there is going to be change. You enter into a covenant with God and he eventually leads you to his word, he brings people into your life, he allows for situation and circumstances to mold you into Christ, he convicts you of sin and crushes you after enough rebellion. You will be changed there is no way around it. Look at the Israelites of the OT and how God treated them according to their covenant. He will treat us and act sovereingly over our lives and allot of the time we dont even know it. He is our father and we are in covenant with him.

 

[Bubbajay]

Im saying that Biblical salvation is regeneration. Part of the promises of biblical salvation is that God would give his people a heart to know him, he would put his fear of him in their hearts for their good, he comes into them by the holy spirit, he gives them a new nature making them into a new man and creature in Christ. He adopts us as a son or daughter and will chastise us when do wickedly before him. This is what salvation is according to the Bible. Its being changed inwardly and supernaturally by the power of God. If someone dies as the same person they were when they claim to have been saved then thats not biblical salvation. That is a false conversion. God is a powerful God. When he comes into someone and adopts them there is going to be change. You enter into a covenant with God and he eventually leads you to his word, he brings people into your life, he allows for situation and circumstances to mold you into Christ, he convicts you of sin and crushes you after enough rebellion. You will be changed there is no way around it. Look at the Israelites of the OT and how God treated them according to their covenant. He will treat us and act sovereingly over our lives and allot of the time we dont even know it. He is our father and we are in covenant with him.

So then I guess Rehab wasn't saved even though the bible says she was.

 

[Lyfe]

So then I guess Rehab wasn't saved even though the bible says she was.

Thats what your getting out of what I said?

 

[Bubbajay]

Thats what your getting out of what I said?

You're claiming that a real saved person will "turn over a new leaf", and if they don't then it was a false conversion.