Is Capitalism Evil?

[mecca]

Anarchy is getting rid of any form of govt.

Anarchists are against oppressive systems and coercive hierarchy. It is an anti-capitalist and anti-state ideology. There is a rich history of anarchist literature... and it's against capitalism.

Under socialism, there will still be a leader to distribute wealth equally

No there would not... an anarcho-communist society is necessarily decentralized and non-hierarchical. There would be systems of distribution of goods, controlled by the people themselves and not leaders. Also it's not equal... people would contribute to the best of their ability and take as much as they need. Not everyone has the same level of need, therefore not everyone would have the same amount of goods.

All of the people will make choices and everything will be privatized.

If everything is privatized, certain people would have more power over others... they would have to force people to do things for them to get the basic necessities they should have a right to.

 

[enderpotato00]

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2012/12/04/7-reasons-socialism-will-make-you-poorer-than-capitalism-n1358940

 

[mecca]

Ending poverty will never happen. Quit thinking like this is a Star Trek world or something.

It's a goal... and if society is organized in a communistic way, goods will be produced for everyone and no one would have to have a certain level of wealth to be able to obtain things like food and water. No one would be profiting off of necessary commodities that people need to survive. If goods are produced according to the needs of the people rather than for profit, there would be enough for everyone.

 

[mecca]

How about a mix of both Capitalist and Socialist ideals.

There is no way to mix private ownership of the means of production with collective ownership. Either the workers get to democratically control their own workplace (communism) or one person owns it and makes them work for him (capitalism).

Having an extreme will never work. Its dangerous.

There is nothing dangerous about people having the freedom to control their own labor. And it has worked before, it can work now as well.

 

[mecca]

God you're such an economically illiterate dumbass.

No I'm not and I don't appreciate your ad hominem. You have no argument.
I described to you the definition of Anarchism... you can learn more about it through reading anarchist books.

 

[enderpotato00]

There is no way to mix private ownership of the means of production with collective ownership. Either the workers get to democratically control their own workplace (communism) or one person owns it and makes them work for him (capitalism).

There is nothing dangerous about people having the freedom to control their own labor. And it has worked before, it can work now as well.

Socialism keeps poor people poor. Capitalism can make poor people get up the ladder. They just don't choose to.

 

[mecca]

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. You are ignoring what I want!

What is your problem? Why are you getting so worked up and typing in all caps? An example of what?

 

[enderpotato00]

Fuck it. Keep living in your fantasy that you have no proof to back up.

 

[GreenLantern0061]

I can't think of one country that has been success at a decentralized community. Please let me know if I'm wrong. Human nature makes the idealism of socialism and communism nigh impossible in today's world. All the major political systems in place have major faults, all of which can be traced to the lure of power and greed. Having said that, I still feel that capitalism is the better system and does give the average person the most opportunities.

 

[mecca]

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

Currently there is Rojava...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Federation_of_Northern_Syria

And there are plenty more examples throughout history.

Human nature

Humans are capable of good and bad, we have the choice to do what's right.

idealism

It's not idealism... what's more absurd is thinking that a centralized power structure would be good to everyone and not abuse it's power. Even the US government with its so called "checks and balances" still disregards the constitution and doesn't work in the people's interest.

 

[GreenLantern0061]

Humans are capable of good and bad, we have the choice to do what's right.

Humans also choose to do bad. And people's views of what's right, differ greatly.

It's not idealism... what's more absurd is thinking that a centralized power structure would be good to everyone and not abuse it's power. Even the US government with its so called "checks and balances" still disregards the constitution and doesn't work in the people's interest.

I totally agree that our government ignores it's own check and balances -- I didn't say that our system is great, and certainly could use a great deal of improvement. If we lived in an ideal world (aka "fantasy world") I would agree with socialism. BUT, I see much abuse in socialistic societies and social programs that our system provides.

And what is a centralized power structure? It is made up of people. They are not choosing to do what is right if they abuse their power. Hence socialism will also not work well.

 

[mecca]

Humans also choose to do bad.

Yes which is why society should be organized in a way that promotes, rewards, and encourages good values and doesn't leave room for someone to take power over others.

And what is a centralized power structure?

The opposite of decentralized. When there is a state, it's centralized and a state always turns oppressive. When the state is removed and the people can govern themselves, we have true freedom.

If we lived in an ideal world (aka "fantasy world") I would agree with socialism.

We don't need a perfect world to create a communist society. A decentralized system would be the best way to prevent abuses of power... there will always be problems and there will always be room for improvement but we can still create a better society in this world.

 

[GreenLantern0061]

Currently there is Rojava...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Federation_of_Northern_Syria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Federation_of_Northern_Syria

Not sure if that's a great example, they are in worn torn Syria and not recognized either by the government of Syria or any international country. So whether or not they will continue to exist is still open for debate.

 

[mecca]

Not sure if that's a great example, they are in worn torn Syria and not recognized either by the government of Syria or any international country. So whether or not they will continue to exist is still open for debate.

It's an example of a functioning decentralized community that exists right now. They are fighting ISIS in a decentralized way as well. The whole point of decentralization is the removal of the state and the government in favor of self government through direct democracy. It doesn't really matter if they're not recognized by the Syrian government... of course they wouldn't be. And like I said there are a lot more examples of decentralized societies throughout history... humans created governments, we didn't always have them and we don't need them.

 

[enderpotato00]

It's an example of a functioning decentralized community that exists right now. They are fighting ISIS in a decentralized way as well. The whole point of decentralization is the removal of the state and the government in favor of self government through direct democracy. It doesn't really matter if they're not recognized by the Syrian government... of course they wouldn't be. And like I said there are a lot more examples of decentralized societies throughout history... humans created governments, we didn't always have them and we don't need them.

People are imperfect. And what examples of a decentralized communal system has worked?

 

[mecca]

People are imperfect.

When did I say people were perfect? Since humans are imperfect and power corrupts people, we should have a society that doesn't let people hold power over others.

And what examples of a decentralized communal system has worked?

There are plenty of examples... you can research them yourself.
This wikipedia page has a good list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities

And here are some I've heard about:
Revolutionary Catalonia
Paris Commune
Anarchist Aragon
Free Territory in Ukraine
Christiania
Twin Oaks Community in Virginia
Autonomous Shinmin Region
Zapatista regions
Zomia
Rojava
Also early human societies and indigenous societies.

 

[enderpotato00]

When did I say people were perfect? Since humans are imperfect and power corrupts people, we should have a society that doesn't let people hold power over others.

There are plenty of examples... you can research them yourself.
This wikipedia page has a good list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities

And here are some I've heard about:
Revolutionary Catalonia
Paris Commune
Anarchist Aragon
Free Territory in Ukraine
Christiania
Twin Oaks Community in Virginia
Autonomous Shinmin Region
Zapatista regions
Zomia
Rojava
Also early human societies and indigenous societies.

Half of them didn’t last very long or were deeply divided

 

[enderpotato00]

Yes which is why society should be organized in a way that promotes, rewards, and encourages good values and doesn't leave room for someone to take power over others.

How will there be no power and how will there be protection from other communities that may want to invade?

 

[enderpotato00]

When did I say people were perfect? Since humans are imperfect and power corrupts people, we should have a society that doesn't let people hold power over others.

There are plenty of examples... you can research them yourself.
This wikipedia page has a good list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities

And here are some I've heard about:
Revolutionary Catalonia
Paris Commune
Anarchist Aragon
Free Territory in Ukraine
Christiania
Twin Oaks Community in Virginia
Autonomous Shinmin Region
Zapatista regions
Zomia
Rojava
Also early human societies and indigenous societies.

How will there be no power under that system?

 

[mecca]

how will there be protection from other communities that may want to invade

Hopefully conflict can be resolved before it gets to that level but if someone is trying to attack, then people will have to defend themselves.

How will there be no power under that system?

Since it will be decentralized... power won't be given to some greater authority and it won't be centralized like a state. People would make decisions through direct democracy and consensus... everyone would be able to have a say. Society would be organized horizontally so everyone has the same amount of political power and hierarchical structures don't arise.