Is Capitalism Evil?

Aero

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Sure there will always be people who want more than everyone else. You all can call it "sin" but I just call it a psychological condition. I don't think people are supposed to have a single greedy bone in their body. I think that our greed has been promoted and manufactured.

One needs only look at the Casino and state lottery industries. It's perfectly legal to go off to Vegas and gamble all your money away. And not only is it legal, it's basically encouraged. And I'm not saying get rid of it all. I'm saying put in some checks and balances. Because right now, there are none.
 

Haich

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That's because the very intention to work has been flawed. They have institutionalized everything so that people now work only for money.

Everything that we do should have the sole aim to please God Almighty since He Would Have Set us in a particular field or area of work.

Now, people go looking for jobs. They want jobs that they believe will suit them. They want jobs that are well paid.

People now anticipate for that end of the month. Our reliance shouldn't be on money but on God Almighty. He's Keeping us alive, not money.
True people don't work for joy, those that do are a rarity.

I agree with being Godly in your approach to work, honest work is best and people should try to avoid jobs which aren't spiritually beneficial. For instance I find lawyers are in predicaments where they have to defend a known criminal which has committed a series of crimes. Imagine knowing in your heart this guy is a bad guy and has probably harmed a lot of people. You still have to defend him and prove his innocence or if the evidence is completely against him, negotiate a deal on his behalf.

I personally find it quite immoral, in a sense lawyers lie for a living. Sure, they choose the cases they want but sometimes they don't. I think it compromises the integrity of an individual, as I type I'm reminded of the OJ Case and how Shapiro got him off despite the overwhelming evidence!
 

Haich

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Greed is inherit in our nature, we desire to acquire as much of this world as possible and transgress the limits in order to accomplish our selfish whims.

Money might not be your game, it may be women, cars, status, power etc.

Capitalism is so careful a institution in the west, that we are conditioned from a young age to buy, spend and indulge. Your local grocery markets are now corporate chemical infused, packaged foods filled with all sorts of cancer inducing crap. In the U.K, the NHS released an advert encouraging people to donate to cancer research. They said 1in 2 people are now diagnosed with cancer...I literally froze. How alarming! Cancer has increased over time and though we have the means to treat it, there is no known cure (they're probably hiding it)

Capitalism is designed for one thing, to make capital at the expense of the citizens. Ok so you make £70,000 a year as a big city banker; you pay your taxes, mortgage, loan repayments etc. After everything what are you left with? You're working to pay crap off and the money you have left over is spent on material items which have no value. The big banker is probably taking him £40,000, yet is working non stop!
That's the same as a head of department in a school...no wonder they commit suicide so often
 

Mr.Grieves

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Greed is inherit in our nature, we desire to acquire as much of this world as possible and transgress the limits in order to accomplish our selfish whims.

Money might not be your game, it may be women, cars, status, power etc.

Capitalism is so careful a institution in the west, that we are conditioned from a young age to buy, spend and indulge. Your local grocery markets are now corporate chemical infused, packaged foods filled with all sorts of cancer inducing crap. In the U.K, the NHS released an advert encouraging people to donate to cancer research. They said 1in 2 people are now diagnosed with cancer...I literally froze. How alarming! Cancer has increased over time and though we have the means to treat it, there is no known cure (they're probably hiding it)

Capitalism is designed for one thing, to make capital at the expense of the citizens. Ok so you make £70,000 a year as a big city banker; you pay your taxes, mortgage, loan repayments etc. After everything what are you left with? You're working to pay crap off and the money you have left over is spent on material items which have no value. The big banker is probably taking him £40,000, yet is working non stop!
That's the same as a head of department in a school...no wonder they commit suicide so often
The poor big bankers...!
 

Aero

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Simple question. If I want or crave more power, does that make me greedy?

What I mean is. I don't want more power than other people. Like I don't care who else has power if I have it. Still greedy?
 

Haich

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Simple question. If I want or crave more power, does that make me greedy?

What I mean is. I don't want more power than other people. Like I don't care who else has power if I have it. Still greedy?
I think it does make you greedy. You aren't satisfied with the power you currently have and want more than others. In order to increase your power, someone has to give theirs up

Even if you don't want more power than others, you still want more. That's the greed, you need to know when to stop. So say you're a king, you reign over a country but want more, you're not satisfied with your current power. You'll have to invade countries , cause war and blood shed etc.

A guy wants a promotion, more status and power at work. He has to prove himself by throwing his weight around, being a suck up, snitching and treading on those beneath him. The boss notices and he gets top job, but at what cost?

There are probably ways of attaining more power without being shifty but I can't think of much atm

There's always consequences to attaining more power even if you aren't aware of it at the time
 

Aero

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I think it does make you greedy. You aren't satisfied with the power you currently have and want more than others. In order to increase your power, someone has to give theirs up

Even if you don't want more power than others, you still want more. That's the greed, you need to know when to stop. So say you're a king, you reign over a country but want more, you're not satisfied with your current power. You'll have to invade countries , cause war and blood shed etc.

A guy wants a promotion, more status and power at work. He has to prove himself by throwing his weight around, being a suck up, snitching and treading on those beneath him. The boss notices and he gets top job, but at what cost?

There are probably ways of attaining more power without being shifty but I can't think of much atm

There's always consequences to attaining more power even if you aren't aware of it at the time
That's a pretty good answer. But does someone have to give up power for me to have more? Idk about that, because power isn't a commodity. At least not in the sense I'm referring to. I mostly mean having more influence. Being able to make big decisions that have the most impact. I just don't think in *every* case that I would have to run someone else over to get it.
 

umphreak

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Taking someone else's money is greed, theft too. It's driven by selfish desires
So how do you redistribute wealth without taking other people's money, stuff, or services by force? Do people who believe in communism think that millions or billions of people will all just agree on how things should be done, or how things should be distributed? What if you *don't* agree, what happens then?

The point of the quote was that working and serving your fellow man in order to EARN money so that you can provide your family with a better life is not greed, although it is commonly portrayed that way by advocates of communism/socialism. But advocating for the seizing of the money of others to is the very definition of greed, and this is precisely what socialism is!
 

Violette

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So how do you redistribute wealth without taking other people's money, stuff, or services by force? Do people who believe in communism think that millions or billions of people will all just agree on how things should be done, or how things should be distributed? What if you *don't* agree, what happens then?

The point of the quote was that working and serving your fellow man in order to EARN money so that you can provide your family with a better life is not greed, although it is commonly portrayed that way by advocates of communism/socialism. But advocating for the seizing of the money of others to is the very definition of greed, and this is precisely what socialism is!
I never said I agreed with socialism or communism, he asked about capitalism. All of these systems sound good or doable on paper but you have to rely on whoever is in power to not exploit people which seems to always happen.
 

Haich

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But if we can choose between greed and being a good person, doesn't that mean that greed isn't inherent?
The fact you have to resist it shows it's part of our nature. You teach yourself to be happy and grateful with what you have.
 

Haich

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What if you don't have to resist or teach yourself?
I said in a few posts earlier, everyone has an amount of greed in them. Greed with regards to money, or food or women or whatever really. If you don't have to resist then your greed isn't as much a hindrance as it may be for other people.
 

umphreak

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I think the crux of the problem with socialism/communism (besides their total disregard for individual rights, as Daciple so eloquently pointed out) is their reliance on central planning. This is a direct reflection of the elites' desire to elevate themselves above the Creator of All.

Human knowledge, no matter how vast, is always inherently limited. We can never see all or know all. We may delude ourselves into believing that we do, but we can never fully understand the multitude of forces behind even a single event. It is extremely foolish to believe that one person or even a group of highly intelligent people are able to plan an economy. Central planning entails knowing what and how much of each thing each individual person needs or wants at any given time, which is always in flux. It's literally impossible to know! Yet advocates of central planning would have you believe that their knowledge is as great as the Creator's.

Furthermore, prices of goods are not arbitrary in a free market system, and they actually communicate a great deal of complex information that allows an economy to essentially plan itself! The price of a good or service communicates how much of a good or service is available, as well as how in demand that good or service is. If supply is very limited or demand is very high, the price rises, and if supply is great or demand is low, the price will fall. When a price rises, it gives entrepreneurs an incentive to produce that good or service, thereby increasing the supply. Likewise, if too many people jump on the bandwagon and too much of a good or service is produced, the price will fall, and people will begin to invest in other things that are more likely to produce a profit (ie, that other people value more). Central planners presume to know all of this information (which is of course constantly changing!) at all times and purport to know what you want and need better than you do! Central planning is doomed to always fail because it is based on arrogance.

Those who say we don't need money are clearly not understanding how difficult life would be without it! Imagine for a moment that you are a furniture maker. Think how difficult it would be to meet your basic everyday needs by trading furniture! You want some food to eat or some clothes to wear or you need a new phone. So what the heck do you do if none of the food or clothing or phone vendors need any new furniture? Do you lug all of your furniture around with you everywhere in hopes that someone will want something you have? Or do you attempt to persuade the people who have what you want to come to your location and look at your furniture, and then hopefully they will want to trade with you? Or say they do need a new table, but the table is worth far more than the food you need. What then? It's clearly a situation that is not workable in a barter model. Money is simply a convenience that allows people to easily trade goods and services, and that's a great thing!

I always say that socialism/communism (the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need") only works on the absolute smallest scale in a society, and that is the family unit. It works in a family because of the emotional bond that holds the family together. We gladly work our butts off to provide for our children, regardless of how much work they contribute, because we love them deeply and we are responsible for them. But when it comes to people you don't know, would you make the same sacrifices? How about if those people were adults capable of working themselves? The problem is that the workers in such a situation inevitably feel taken advantage of, and will therefore not work as hard or produce as much value. But when people are paid a fair price for their labors, they will gladly make all kinds of sacrifices in order to provide for the needs of others, regardless of whether or not they know or even like those other people. That's the beauty of the free market.
 

Sunshine

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eh..... I looked at it. I mean I've heard it before. I think we should tear apart the social system and build a new one. There were Indian tribes who had been practicing a sort of "Communism" since before Europeans came to the Americas. How can we say Communism is doomed to fail because humans but we don't say Capitalism is doomed to fail because humans?
You are citing as an example the traditions of Native Americans to share resources within the tribe. While this was, in fact the norm, it has little in common with the economic paradigm of communism. By definition, communism funnels all resources through a central governing body and then distributes those resources as it sees fit. That government authorizes itself to do so by the theory that IT owns all the resources, often times including the people who make up the resource of "labor." Those concepts, of ownership, centralized power, and collective labor are completely alien to most Native American tribes' cultures.

Many people have a romanticized notion about Native tribes in the past: that they were egalitarian and peaceful and lived in complete harmony with nature. The "harmony with nature" is a given, considering that they had a Stone Age level of technology and had no other choice. But they fought over resources and territory, just like all the tribes in Europe, Asia and Africa have done and still do. Before the whites came, tribes made war on each other, sometimes to the point of genocide. They endured r*pe and famine and disease, same as all peoples everywhere. And most tribes had a definite class system. Do you think the chiefly family members didn't have better clothes and food and horses than the rest? They did, because they were the Upper Class. And they had a Middle class of warriors, artisans and the like, and a lower class, often composed of slaves and/or captives from other tribes.

So gimme a break, trying to disprove the validity of capitalism with some foggy notion of a "primitive ideal" that supposedly existed before the Europeans arrived in the Americas. It didn't.

To all of you who espouse tearing down our present social system: with what would you replace it? If you really want communism, you're going to have to be prepared for rationing, enforced labor and a government that dominates all facets of life. Would you want to live in a world where you need a permission slip to go to a store and upgrade your smartphone? The govt. would probably outlaw fast food franchises, since they are unhealthy and are the epitome of both large and small private enterprise. Not to mention car dealerships, movie theaters, maybe even internet shopping. Also, since a communist govt. would own everything, they would control energy companies, and set production and pricing for electricity, gasoline, phone and internet service. They would have a monopoly on everything, and would have zero incentive for innovation or efficiency. That's what happened in every single Iron Curtain country, back in the last century. They had to smuggle in blue jeans, for crying out loud.
 
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