Is Capitalism Evil?

[Daciple]

@mecca

Feels like this conversation will go in circles, I believe I have addressed your points in saying that there is a difference between an ideal and implementation in reality and the continued hanging on to saying no one has done it, well no one has successfully implemented Capitalism as stated perfectly in the ideal either so I could simply appeal anytime you say Capitalism is bad, that it has yet to be successfully implemented so your arguments against it are invalid. Round and round we will go, as implemented in reality Communism is horrible, Capitalism is more viable. Both ideals are perfect on paper, its how it is implemented in reality that matters and what it looks like to those living under it. Until Christ comes back I will take Capitalism...

 

[Daciple]

@Scott Christopher Shuman

I am simply backing Capitalism as the system I would want to live under as opposed to Communism. As we both agree on Communism will always fully destroy, at least in the current state of life a Capitalistic Society allows us "freedom" from the State to pursue our own agendas, and those Born Again obviously defer to the agenda of Christ.

 

[mecca]

Communism was created in the Soviet Union

Wrong. It didn't even exist in the Soviet Union.

in a communistic society, nothing is owned individually

But I already told you a definition that represents what communism actually is instead of the ways it was manipulated to give dictators power...

 

[mecca]

What we need is to get rid of debt and taxes and we would achieve the world you are describing, which is not the definition of communism.

What needs to be done is removing the elite from power so the people can govern themselves.

 

[rainerann]

Money is just a means for you to go out and buy what you need. It doesn't possess any power to make you use your limbs to go to the shop.

Only God Is Responsible for those priceless bounties like the faculties of seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting.

Money can't really do anything on its own. Money is useless unless you've used it to buy what you need. Money isn't to be worshiped.

There's nothing preventing God Almighty from bringing you whatever you need using whatever means He Deems fit, all in due time.

Economics is a mathematical process. Money is like numbers. Numbers that are added together and subtracted to make new numbers. It is imitating the mathematical process of the atomic world for comparison. Atoms exchange electrons and create different molecules. That is what money simulates in the present world. It works and creates a functional system for the exchange of goods because it is based on mathematical principles created by God. You need some form of currency otherwise, it would be very hard to acquire the variety of products that we are accustomed to. Our computers themselves are way too complex to create independently. A form of currency to create an exchange with is how so many pieces are able to come together to create our computers that allow us to communicate with people all over the world. Having a form of currency has contributed to creating everything that increased the quality of life we have in the modern world.

 

[mecca]

You are not talking about communism.

I don't think you are. You're talking about dictatorships who proclaimed to be communist. I'm talking about what communism is defined as and represents.

 

[rainerann]

Wrong. It didn't even exist in the Soviet Union.

But I already told you a definition that represents what communism actually is instead of the ways it was manipulated to give dictators power...

Have you ever read Karl Marx's writings who was one of the founders of communism that was implemented in the Soviet Union? The Soviet Union implemented communism. You are talking about something completely different. That is not the definition of communism. Marx and Lenin are leaders in the principles of communism. It was a scam. They were con artists trying to take advantage of people.

 

[mecca]

How can a dictatorship be communist? The whole point is for the people to have the control.

 

[mecca]

Have you ever read Karl Marx's writings who was one of the founders of communism that was implemented in the Soviet Union? The Soviet Union implemented communism. You are talking about something completely different. That is not the definition of communism. Marx and Lenin are leaders in the principles of communism. It was a scam. They were con artists trying to take advantage of people.

Ok well I disagree.

 

[rainerann]

I don't think you are. You're talking about dictatorships who proclaimed to be communist. I'm talking about what communism is defined as and represents.

A dictatorship is exactly what Marx set out to create. That is exactly what he what he wanted to do is lure people into believing that he was not creating a dictatorship, which he was. I will have to stop this discussion here. I think it would be better to continue when you have read a few more history books.

 

[mecca]

The Soviet Union implemented communism.

How can the government implement something that requires the removal of the government?

 

[mecca]

A dictatorship is exactly what Marx set out to create. That is exactly what he what he wanted to do is lure people into believing that he was not creating a dictatorship, which he was. I will have to stop this discussion here. I think it would be better to continue when you have read a few more history books.

But since the dictatorship created was a lie and went against everything proclaimed, doesn't that mean it still wasn't communist?

 

[rainerann]

The Communist Manifesto, written by Karl Marx, a primary creator of communism. Communism was not a preexisting idea that was never implemented correctly. It was engineered in the late 19th century and attempted by the Soviet Union after this. I am pretty sure they were practicing the real form of communism. They were pretty close to the original source. Socrates did not create communism. Marx, Lenin and a bunch of other people who are now considered evil because their newly created economic system had horrible consequences and caused a massive number of people to died because of their experiment created communism. There is no good form of communism. Yes, it was still communism. There is no other source of reference outside of these founders of communism from which to draw a different conclusion of the system. It is a failure. That doesn't mean it is wrong to want what you are suggesting to be possible. It is just that communism will not make this ideal possbile, ever, in a hundred thousand years.

 

[mecca]

That doesn't mean it is wrong to want what you are suggesting to be possible. It is just that communism will not make this ideal possbile, ever, in a hundred thousand years.

Okay but "this ideal" is the definition of communism, that's where I got the definition.

Whether or not what I say or what you say is the true communism, we can all agree that dictatorships = bad, and people governing themselves = good, right? That's all that matters.

Also I'm not a communist and I don't really support Karl Marx, all I'm trying to do is differentiate between what communism is defined as, and how it was implemented and manipulated.

 

[mecca]

no one has successfully implemented Capitalism as stated perfectly in the ideal either so I could simply appeal anytime you say Capitalism is bad, that it has yet to be successfully implemented so your arguments against it are invalid.

Yeah, but that's true. No form of government works until the elite stop controlling it. They manipulate everything so people are under the illusion that they live in a certain kind of society that they don't really live in. Democracy, capitalism, communism. These things haven't existed since the elite controlled every form of government... so they've basically never existed.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

Economics is a mathematical process. Money is like numbers. Numbers that are added together and subtracted to make new numbers. It is imitating the mathematical process of the atomic world for comparison. Atoms exchange electrons and create different molecules. That is what money simulates in the present world. It works and creates a functional system for the exchange of goods because it is based on mathematical principles created by God. You need some form of currency otherwise, it would be very hard to acquire the variety of products that we are accustomed to. Our computers themselves are way too complex to create independently. A form of currency to create an exchange with is how so many pieces are able to come together to create our computers that allow us to communicate with people all over the world. Having a form of currency has contributed to creating everything that increased the quality of life we have in the modern world.

You missed my point completely.

In the materialistic society we're currently living in, money occupies too much importance in the hearts of men, a place God Should Occupy.

Money is like toilet paper. You don't really need it until you need what it is needed for. What's its use if you already have all that you ever wanted?

If men were more God-Conscious rather than materialists, they would focus more on attaining His Good Pleasure rather than pursuing money.

The barter system was prevalent originally. Then came the use of gold and silver. Thereafter they invented paper money by cutting down trees.

They destroyed nature. They built roads and invented the wheel. The stopped using natural mounts provided by God Almighty.

Materialism is evil. Money cannot do shit. The banking system currently in place is corrupt as hell.

They make money off money. How illogical is that? So when you have money, you get even more money?

And when you borrow money from them, which is not even theirs to begin with, you have to reimburse more to pay it back?

Where's the logic in that? It's all godlessness and perpetration of evil. They want you to love money more than God Himself.

They've invented this shit machine called the computer as a means to entangle all of us in their filthy porn and stupid music.

They want to make us shameless and forgetful of The Creator. Don't you see? They've set up a system whereby you get paid every month.

This is what people look forward to when they work. It's not like honest commerce and trade where you pray to God to Send customers while waiting.

People have forgotten that it's God Who Make the crops grow since they've industrialized it all and want you to believe that THEY are the producers when God Is The Creator of it all, themselves included.

We only fabricate using whatever God Has Already Given us! We can't create shit! Money cannot create shit!

HE IS KEEPING EVERYTHING AFLOAT AND EXISTING AT EACH AND EVERY MOMENT!

OPEN YOUR EYES AND OTHERS' TOO! THAT'S THE HUMAN BEING'S MAIN DUTY! TO REMIND OF THE REASON OF EXISTENCE!

 

[mecca]

You missed my point completely.

In the materialistic society we're currently living in, money occupies too much importance in the hearts of men, a place God Should Occupy.

Money is like toilet paper. You don't really need it until you need what it is needed for. What's its use if you already have all that you ever wanted?

If men were more God-Conscious rather than materialists, they would focus more on attaining His Good Pleasure rather than pursuing money.

The barter system was prevalent originally. Then came the use of gold and silver. Thereafter they invented paper money by cutting down trees.

They destroyed nature. They built roads and invented the wheel. The stopped using natural mounts provided by God Almighty.

Materialism is evil. Money cannot do shit. The banking system currently in place is corrupt as hell.

They make money off money. How illogical is that? So when you have money, you get even more money?

And when you borrow money from them, which is not even theirs to begin with, you have to reimburse more to pay it back?

Where's the logic in that? It's all godlessness and perpetration of evil. They want you to love money more than God Himself.

They've invented this shit machine called the computer as a means to entangle all of us in their filthy porn and stupid music.

They want to make us shameless and forgetful of The Creator. Don't you see? They've set up a system whereby you get paid every month.

This is what people look forward to when they work. It's not like honest commerce and trade where you pray to God to Send customers while waiting.

People have forgotten that it's God Who Make the crops grow since they've industrialized it all and want you to believe that THEY are the producers when God Is The Creator of it all, themselves included.

We only fabricate using what God Has Already Given us! We can't create shit! Money cannot create shit!

HE IS KEEPING EVERYTHING AFLOAT AND EXISTING AT EACH AND EVERY MOMENT!

OPEN YOUR EYES AND OTHERS' TOO! THAT'S THE HUMAN BEING'S MAIN DUTY! TO REMIND OF THE REASON OF EXISTENCE!

Chill.

 

[Aero]

We don't need currency anymore. Or at least we shouldn't. If everything suddenly became free, there would be zero problems. People would work because they want to do something. Or there could be some other type of reward. Companies could innovate without having the burden of money hanging over their heads.

When civilization was developing it makes sense they needed a simple way to trade with each other. It's all terribly redundant at this point though. Like if you gave me a million dollars I would be rich forever. I wouldn't work at all, and I would keep making more money. Just because I have money.

 

[Haich]

We don't need currency anymore. Or at least we shouldn't. If everything suddenly became free, there would be zero problems. People would work because they want to do something. Or there could be some other type of reward. Companies could innovate without having the burden of money hanging over their heads.

When civilization was developing it makes sense they needed a simple way to trade with each other. It's all terribly redundant at this point though. Like if you gave me a million dollars I would be rich forever. I wouldn't work at all, and I would keep making more money. Just because I have money.

But people would still compete to have the 'most' or 'best' free stuff. Greed is inherit to man, money allows us to indulge but we'd just replace it with something else.

I like the idea of people working in a job they actually liked, because we all work to live, we're left with less disposable income so we don't really get to see the fruits of our rewards...I don't think I've ever met someone you enjoyed their job lol

 

[God_Is_Formless]

I don't think I've ever met someone you enjoyed their job lol

That's because the very intention to work has been flawed. They have institutionalized everything so that people now work only for money.

Everything that we do should have the sole aim to please God Almighty since He Would Have Set us in a particular field or area of work.

Now, people go looking for jobs. They want jobs that they believe will suit them. They want jobs that are well paid.

People now anticipate for that end of the month. Our reliance shouldn't be on money but on God Almighty. He's Keeping us alive, not money.