Is Capitalism Evil?

[mecca]

You have to have money. Otherwise, you would have to trade your coffee table for food. No one person can produce everything they need to survive and have a certain quality of life independent of other people. There has to be a medium of exchange. This medium also creates an incentive to work. People like to get paid for the work they do. It is difficult to work without reward and we depend on other people down to the finest details of life every day. Look around your room and realize how many people it took to have everything you see. The screws that hold your computer together. Someone goes to work every day to make those. The government does not have the right to take this from the man who makes them by force. That is called stealing. Communism is basically stealing what someone else worked for.

Economics is an important subject to study.

Whether or nor there's money Communism is when the worker class controls what it produces.

 

[rainerann]

Whether or nor there's money Communism is when the worker class controls what it produces.

No because the worker owns nothing. The worker just does what they are told and what they work for is taken from them and distributed without asking them for their advice on how it should be distributed.

 

[mecca]

They are selling a pipe dream and what will end up happening is that people will desire their own enslavement, that is the dream the Elite want, they dont want to force you into their New World Order to begin with, they want to sell it to you as the best thing ever!! They want you to accept and then defend THEIR SYSTEM and then happily walk right into the shackles they have created for you to wear.

Communism is when the worker class controls what it produces. How's that enslavement?

 

[mecca]

No because the worker owns nothing. The worker just does what they are told and what they work for is taken from them and distributed without asking them for their advice on how it should be distributed.

That's why they're supposed to own it...

 

[Daciple]

Communism is when the worker class controls what it produces. How's that enslavement?

Because the Elite will tell you that is what you are going to get but in REALITY they own everything, I literally just showed you a website that promotes everything you seemingly want right?

I am also telling you that the people who created this website and propaganda movie are THE ELITE who want to create the New World Order. The NWO will be billed under the wonderful ideals I just listed and thus when everyone goes happily into this system shortly after they will find out what happens in EVERY Communistic Society, that its all Bullcrap and that the Elite now own them and everything in the Society and they are just slaves to the State.

Again its the ideal vs the reality...

 

[mecca]

Because the Elite will tell you that is what you are going to get but in REALITY they own everything

They already do own everything...

I literally just showed you a website that promotes everything you seemingly want right?

I'm not even a communist but if those things listed are just a front for elite control then what's the point? Most of it sounds nice if it were actually true... that's why if those things truly existed in society, that would be great. Also just because the elite pretend to support these things as a front for their controlling schemes, doesn't mean people can't actually achieve these things without their influence.

 

[mecca]

The NWO will be billed under the wonderful ideals I just listed and thus when everyone goes happily into this system shortly after they will find out what happens in EVERY Communistic Society, that its all Bullcrap and that the Elite now own them and everything in the Society and they are just slaves to the State.

But I'm not talking about fake communism that's a front for the elite's power and control. I'm talking about real communism where the common people govern themselves (without the elite) which has never been done before. That's why there hasn't ever been an actual communist society, because the elite have not been overthrown at all.

 

[rainerann]

That's why they're supposed to own it...

In a communistic society, everything is owned by the community or the state. A state is created by communism. If the person owns nothing and does not receive a paycheck or have any opportunity to obtain capital, they will be forced to do what they are told for the rest of their life. This is not what most people would consider a fulfilling life.

It is a basic principle of economics that is given in the classic book The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. "Land, however improved, will yield no revenue without a circulating currency." link

This is the basic principle for why communism fails evidenced by Ukraine under communism. Ukraine is called the breadbasket of the world because the farmland is so good for growing wheat and other things. However, Ukraine was crippled by communism even though they have some of the best farmland in the world. You need a circulating currency. There can be no increase or prosperity without this.

The Wealth of Nations is another good book to read on the subject of economics.

 

[mecca]

In a communistic society, everything is owned by the community or the state.

It's owned by the people...
Communism: A term describing a stateless, classless, money-less society with common ownership of the means of production and production is done on the basis of human need rather than profit.

 

[JoChris]

Oh okay, I agree with you.

I think this system has to be gotten rid of but I'm not saying we should replace the current system with a Fidel Castro-style system.

I think there has to be some third option that we're not told about. I simply don't think it's either living like this or North Korea. I think that's a false dichotomy.

I think if capitalism was returned to its original definition we wouldn't need the third option.

I saw this term used a while back and I think this is what we have in reality. We don't have democracies or capitalism any more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

 

[rainerann]

It's owned by the people...
Communism: A term describing a stateless, classless, money-less society with common ownership of the means of production and production is done on the basis of human need rather than profit.

It is impossible to not create a state in a system that creates poverty the way communism does. The definition is an ideal that does not work out in reality. You need a circulating currency to create increase and prosperity. There has been much more success with this method than any attempt to implement a form of communism has ever found.

 

[mecca]

that creates poverty the way communism does.

Communism hasn't really existed in society because what we call "communist" societies are really just dictatorships with elite people controlling and ruling over everyone else. That's not communism though.

 

[mecca]

The definition is an ideal that does not work out in reality.

Are you sure? Cause maybe it could.

 

[mecca]

The screws that hold your computer together. Someone goes to work every day to make those. The government does not have the right to take this from the man who makes them by force. That is called stealing. Communism is basically stealing what someone else worked for.

That's not communism.

 

[rainerann]

Communism hasn't really existed in society because what we call "communist" societies are really just dictatorships with elite people controlling and ruling over everyone else. That's not communism though.

That is what communism is. That is the whole point of communism. The dictators and elite people controlling and ruling over everyone else in those previous systems are the ones who created communism. I think you are talking about more of a utopian economy, not communism. I think you need a name for the economics that you are referring to. We could call it Meccanomics.

 

[Daciple]

You should read the link on my first post on this page. It explains communism was created by Satan to mimic Christ's church system.

I read it and I agree with it, most of the arguments I have used in this thread are in line with what you wrote, I dont know if you read my other posts.

Indeed Communism is a mimic to Christ and the Church, and indeed Christ Rule will be a form of Communism. I also agree with your ideals of Freedom, I wrote something concerning the false ideal of American Freedom or Liberty and how it is really just enslavement. That True Liberty is to give up all things for Christ, to follow after Him and know that all that you do following after the Spirit brings treasure in Heaven giving you freedom to not worry about the earthly matters that will all be forgotten when you meet the Lord and Savior on that Glorious Morning He calls you home.

I enjoyed the article thanks for the link, I believe the end is something others ought to hear especially those promoting Communism in this thread:

It is a tragedy so many people are trusting in governments that will never prosper. Especially during this future end time Socialism/Communism movement, many will become empowered to follow the masses. It has been my intention in this interpretation to show that Jesus’ Millennial reign will be the closest thing to utopia this earth has ever seen. I believe many passionate people are going to kick themselves when they learn that Jesus’ end time reign becomes everything they hoped the Socialism/Communism reign would become, but never did. Many people who are going after Socialism/Communism passionately (or who will in the future) will be surprised to learn that Jesus’ Millennial reign will look a lot like Communism striped down to its roots. Don’t trust in a person (antichrist) or power (government) who will give you empty promises, who will lie to you about a “common unity” that will lead you nowhere. If you trust in the antichrist and his system he will take you. But, you will inherit his path and his destination and you will slip straight toward his destructive end (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12, Revelation 14:11). You might receive the passionate fight you are looking for, but it will never lead to a desired end, which is a Communist unity relevant for the people. I am trying to show you that Jesus’ end does in fact lead to that desired goal of striped down Communism “unity”, which becomes the cause for the people. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want the fight, the antichrist will certainly give it to you. If you want the “unity”, Jesus will take you but you will not fight, you will surrender to Him and receive your utopia through Him; because you will never get that utopia through the governments of man. You might get the fight, but you will never obtain the desired goal of unity and peace.

 

[rainerann]

I read it and I agree with it, most of the arguments I have used in this thread are in line with what you wrote, I dont know if you read my other posts.

Indeed Communism is a mimic to Christ and the Church, and indeed Christ Rule will be a form of Communism. I also agree with your ideals of Freedom, I wrote something concerning the false ideal of American Freedom or Liberty and how it is really just enslavement. That True Liberty is to give up all things for Christ, to follow after Him and know that all that you do following after the Spirit brings treasure in Heaven giving you freedom to not worry about the earthly matters that will all be forgotten when you meet the Lord and Savior on that Glorious Morning He calls you home.

I enjoyed the article thanks for the link, I believe the end is something others ought to hear especially those promoting Communism in this thread:

It is a tragedy so many people are trusting in governments that will never prosper. Especially during this future end time Socialism/Communism movement, many will become empowered to follow the masses. It has been my intention in this interpretation to show that Jesus’ Millennial reign will be the closest thing to utopia this earth has ever seen. I believe many passionate people are going to kick themselves when they learn that Jesus’ end time reign becomes everything they hoped the Socialism/Communism reign would become, but never did. Many people who are going after Socialism/Communism passionately (or who will in the future) will be surprised to learn that Jesus’ Millennial reign will look a lot like Communism striped down to its roots. Don’t trust in a person (antichrist) or power (government) who will give you empty promises, who will lie to you about a “common unity” that will lead you nowhere. If you trust in the antichrist and his system he will take you. But, you will inherit his path and his destination and you will slip straight toward his destructive end (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12, Revelation 14:11). You might receive the passionate fight you are looking for, but it will never lead to a desired end, which is a Communist unity relevant for the people. I am trying to show you that Jesus’ end does in fact lead to that desired goal of striped down Communism “unity”, which becomes the cause for the people. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want the fight, the antichrist will certainly give it to you. If you want the “unity”, Jesus will take you but you will not fight, you will surrender to Him and receive your utopia through Him; because you will never get that utopia through the governments of man. You might get the fight, but you will never obtain the desired goal of unity and peace.

I agree with your conclusion @Scott Christopher Shuman. Very well put.

 

[mecca]

That is the whole point of communism.

Actually the whole point is for the workers to own and control the means of production.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

You have to have money.

Money is just a means for you to go out and buy what you need. It doesn't possess any power to make you use your limbs to go to the shop.

Only God Is Responsible for those priceless bounties like the faculties of seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting.

Money can't really do anything on its own. Money is useless unless you've used it to buy what you need. Money isn't to be worshiped.

There's nothing preventing God Almighty from bringing you whatever you need using whatever means He Deems fit, all in due time.

 

[rainerann]

Actually the whole point is for the workers to own and control the means of production.

No that is a free market economy. In a free market economy, people can own businesses and control the means of production. In a communistic society, nothing is owned individually. Communism was created in the Soviet Union. They applied communism in the way it was created, which gave Stalin authority over people and caused hundreds of people to starve to death because they were dependent on someone else's decision for how everything would be distributed.

In a free market economy, people can give what they own away freely. In a communist society, they have nothing to give of their own. You are not talking about communism.

What we need is to get rid of debt and taxes and we would achieve the world you are describing, which is not the definition of communism.