Is Capitalism Evil?

Etagloc

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I can't think of a single economic/ political system that - without checks and balances - doesn't result in the elite and the underclass.
Capitalism has business elite and corporations ruling the world. Communism has the political elite ruling the world.Capitalism looks better because people appear to have freedom to choose their leader/s. Democracy overall is friendlier for business models.

I think corporations rule the world now though. Politicians work for businesses so they will get employed by business (if voted out of power). e.g. Clinton versus Trump - that shows how sick the democratic model is if only obscenely wealthy people can run for President.
How do we have choice in choosing our leaders? Did anyone actually want Trump or Hillary? Seriously, almost everyone hated both candidates and they were forced on us.

Also you can have elections under socialism, depending on which form of socialism it is.
 

Etagloc

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I can't think of a single economic/ political system that - without checks and balances - doesn't result in the elite and the underclass.
Capitalism has business elite and corporations ruling the world. Communism has the political elite ruling the world.Capitalism looks better because people appear to have freedom to choose their leader/s. Democracy overall is friendlier for business models.
How does it make a difference to me if political elites or business elites rule the world? I can pick my leaders but I have to pick one of those groups?

I want none of the above to be in charge.

If you can't choose your options, that's not freedom. Getting to choose between Trump or Hillary (assuming we're choosing at all and the whole thing isn't rigged) is not freedom.
 

Etagloc

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Read my interpretation please. It answers what I believe Jesus will return to implement.

I can't stand idealists who have opinions the size of mountains and refuse to read 4 pages which addresses the entire premise of you thread.

Also telling you didn't respond to the post before the one you quoted.

We got a person who just wants to score points, not learn.

We got a person who is posting pictures. I should sue you for copyright. That's my thing. Also that guy looks weird and that is criminal to post such a weird image.
 

Daciple

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I personally will always take a Capitalistic Society over a Communistic one any day of the week. Is our current system flawed, yes indeed, but to believe that every single instance of a Communistic Society enacted in the Modern Day and on a large scale didnt have massive and much horrible flaws is to be willfully ignorant of recent History. The effects on Communism in our modern day has been so so so much worse than that of Capitalism.

There is zero motivation to produce anything of value from a Communistic Society save fear of Government oppression, do you want to be told what to do in life with threat of death or harm if you dont fulfill the States desire for its purpose of your life?

Or would you rather have a choice in what you want to do and then be motivated to do what you want or enjoy to benefit yourself and thus also benefit Society, with little to no Government interference?

It boggles my mind that people on an Conspiracy Site would ever desire to have the State mandate and determine their lives for them, because essentially in a real life, real action way, that is what you are begging for.

Where has Communism thrived and made positive contributions to Society as a whole in the Modern Era?

I see only death and destruction everywhere it puts its Steely Boot on the throats of the people its supposed to be helping. Also if you read the agenda of those who desire to enact a New World Order, the entire system is based on Communism. Why do you think there is soooooo much propaganda aimed at the Youth to embrace Communism and reject Capitalism? Because you will never enact a New World Order in which the basics of the System is Individual Liberty and motivation by personal interest. Instead the change must be to cause others to have a System in which the State is Supreme above individual liberties and the collectives needs are prioritized over ones personal needs.

In such a Society then it becomes easier to band against those to reject said system and begin to eliminate dissenters posing such horrible atrocities as for the Good Will of the Collective. You will watch as millions upon millions of people in their own nations are murdered for the Good Will of the Collective, where Eugenics are established and carried out, where the worst of the worst atrocities are promoted and brought into existence because it will be for the Good Will of the Collective. Why? Because you as a person and your individual liberties and rights no longer exist. Only the ideologies and desires of an extremely select few matter and it is from this top perch in the pyramid of power that their will is pushed out upon an entire populous.

I did not read Scotts paper but the very basic ideology he is proposed in this thread are the Truth, unless the men or man at the very top of the Communistic Governments are perfect then all matter of Evil in which they posses will be initiated upon all those beneath them. The idea of Communism on paper is wonderful, it would be great if all men always contributed perfectly for the greater good of the whole, but the fact of the matter that will NEVER exist as long as Sin is present in the World period. Every single time Sin is present then that Sin will be moved throughout the Society and those in power will crush all dissenters and use all the poor to carry out their personal Sin and whatever it takes to keep them in power.

I believe without a doubt if there is Millennial State on this Earth, that it will be a form of Communism, but it will work perfectly why? Because first and foremost Jesus is Perfect thus the Man at the top will always be able to make the decisions and judgement that are beyond Evil and contamination and no one will ever be able to righteously disagree with Him. Second men will be perfect themselves thus they will collectively agree with Christ and only do what is right for one another.

However until Mankind reaches that level which is impossible without Christ and the Resurrection, then forever Communism will be a God Awful system of Government for Mankind, only those in power will have anything resembling the basic Good Lifestyle 99% of the people on this site enjoy. As an example, this type of site wouldnt exist in a Communistic Society, just keep that in mind as you rally for Communism...
 

Etagloc

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Read my interpretation please. It answers what I believe Jesus will return to implement.

I can't stand idealists who have opinions the size of mountains and refuse to read 4 pages which addresses the entire premise of you thread.

Also telling you didn't respond to the post before the one you quoted.

We got a person who just wants to score points, not learn.
How is it Christian to talk in the way you do and also to post the weird, insulting picture? It amazes me how different Christian act in practice versus theory. I'm attacking ideas but you're the one interested in attacking the person.

Besides, how am I an idealist and you are not? A Christian is an idealist. That's not to say there is nothing else to it but Christianity has a whole set of ideals... ideals which you seem to be contrary towards. If your own behavior does not trust in Christianity and its ideals then how can you expect me to?

And I talk about this because everything you're saying is based on Christianity. Not upon independent reasoning but simply beginning with conventional Christian beliefs about the subject matter.
 

JoChris

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How does it make a difference to me if political elites or business elites rule the world? I can pick my leaders but I have to pick one of those groups?

I want none of the above to be in charge.

If you can't choose your options, that's not freedom. Getting to choose between Trump or Hillary (assuming we're choosing at all and the whole thing isn't rigged) is not freedom.
That is my point. I agree with you. Western countries have democracies in theory only. We don't choose one candidate. We reject the alternative leader/s instead.

Last election I did not vote for either major Party in Australia. They are like Lewis Carroll's Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The minor parties are less polished but at least give some signs they actually understand the plight of the non-major city Australian citizen right now.
 

Etagloc

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I'm not against disagreeing but you can disagree in a reasonable way that illustrates Christianity by example, like Daciple or JoChris. I reserve the right to make jokes about ideas but I'm not out to insult people and I think that sort of thing really drags down the level of discussion, is against Christianity and is just bad based on widely agreed-upon principles.
 

mecca

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but to believe that every single instance of a Communistic Society enacted in the Modern Day and on a large scale didnt have massive and much horrible flaws is to be willfully ignorant of recent History. The effects on Communism in our modern day has been so so so much worse than that of Capitalism.
Those so called communist societies didn't even follow communism. You can't even really call them communist. They were communist by name only.
 

Etagloc

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That is my point. I agree with you. Western countries have democracies in theory only. We don't choose one candidate. We reject the alternative leader/s instead.

Last election I did not vote for either major Party in Australia. They are like Lewis Carroll's Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The minor parties are less polished but at least give some signs they actually understand the plight of the non-major city Australian citizen right now.
Oh okay, I agree with you.

I think this system has to be gotten rid of but I'm not saying we should replace the current system with a Fidel Castro-style system.

I think there has to be some third option that we're not told about. I simply don't think it's either living like this or North Korea. I think that's a false dichotomy.
 

umphreak

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Where did those rich people's money come from in the first place? I don't understand how it's greed to think it's crazy that people have billions and billions while other people have nowhere to sleep.
In a free market capitalist system, the way to get rich is to provide goods and services to your fellow humans that they find valuable. In the system we have now (which is not free-market capitalism, BTW), the wealthy use the power of the government to squash the competition and give themselves unfair advantages, which is why we now have so many massive multinational corporations. Extreme wealth disparity has been the norm throughout history (think feudal system, for example). The difference is that if you were a serf, you were stuck that way forever. Since the advent of capitalism, let's see what has happened to rates of global poverty:



You can use a lil Latin phrase if you like but according to one of the most basic principles of Aristotelian logic, capitalist propaganda=capitalist propaganda. You can't argue with the law of non-contradiction. x=x. Therefore, capitalist propaganda=capitlist propaganda
That's seriously your argument??? Um, wow.
We got a person who is posting pictures. I should sue you for copyright. That's my thing. Also that guy looks weird and that is criminal to post such a weird image.
So let me get this straight....you think private ownership is evil, but your "thing" is suing people for copyright infringement? Ok then....
 

Etagloc

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As an example, this type of site wouldnt exist in a Communistic Society, just keep that in mind as you rally for Communism...
I don't actually want Soviet Union or China or Cuba style communism. But I don't think it's either the current model or the North Korea model. I think there has to be other models. There has to be a reason all these people got assassinated. If Salvador Allende and Thomas Sankara and others were trying to do something inherently undoable then there would have been no reason for people like that all across the world to have been assassinated. Salvador Allende was for socialism but he was also for democracy. The whole threat of Allende that made him so much more dangerous that Castro was that Allende might have actually succeeding in making some great society and of making great accomplishments while also preserving peoples' rights and so without all the bad stuff that turned people off about Cuba. If Allende or Sankara or many others had been allowed to simply pursue their goals without interference, history would be very different. But those men showed it was possible.
 

umphreak

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I personally will always take a Capitalistic Society over a Communistic one any day of the week. Is our current system flawed, yes indeed, but to believe that every single instance of a Communistic Society enacted in the Modern Day and on a large scale didnt have massive and much horrible flaws is to be willfully ignorant of recent History. The effects on Communism in our modern day has been so so so much worse than that of Capitalism.

There is zero motivation to produce anything of value from a Communistic Society save fear of Government oppression, do you want to be told what to do in life with threat of death or harm if you dont fulfill the States desire for its purpose of your life?

Or would you rather have a choice in what you want to do and then be motivated to do what you want or enjoy to benefit yourself and thus also benefit Society, with little to no Government interference?

It boggles my mind that people on an Conspiracy Site would ever desire to have the State mandate and determine their lives for them, because essentially in a real life, real action way, that is what you are begging for.

Where has Communism thrived and made positive contributions to Society as a whole in the Modern Era?

I see only death and destruction everywhere it puts its Steely Boot on the throats of the people its supposed to be helping. Also if you read the agenda of those who desire to enact a New World Order, the entire system is based on Communism. Why do you think there is soooooo much propaganda aimed at the Youth to embrace Communism and reject Capitalism? Because you will never enact a New World Order in which the basics of the System is Individual Liberty and motivation by personal interest. Instead the change must be to cause others to have a System in which the State is Supreme above individual liberties and the collectives needs are prioritized over ones personal needs.

In such a Society then it becomes easier to band against those to reject said system and begin to eliminate dissenters posing such horrible atrocities as for the Good Will of the Collective. You will watch as millions upon millions of people in their own nations are murdered for the Good Will of the Collective, where Eugenics are established and carried out, where the worst of the worst atrocities are promoted and brought into existence because it will be for the Good Will of the Collective. Why? Because you as a person and your individual liberties and rights no longer exist. Only the ideologies and desires of an extremely select few matter and it is from this top perch in the pyramid of power that their will is pushed out upon an entire populous.
Very well said. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
 

Etagloc

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You completely ignored my first post and started an argument with me under the guise you had read it? How honest of you!

Because you're too lazy and entitled to read I will quickly tell you my interpretation, which you pridefully refused to read and address, explains when Jesus returns his system will look a lot more like communism than it will a capital system.

Now how dumb do you feel you acted like you read my interpretation yet we're asserting my position was capital based when it was communist based.

I was basically agreeing with you and you were too lazy to figure that out.

Study Christian communists.
Bruh you wrote a four-page paper. It's not the end of the world if people don't want to read your magnum opus. You can't get mad and be all rude because of that.
 

Daciple

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Those so called communist societies didn't even follow communism. You can't even really call them communist. They were communist by name only.
In the same method that these so called Capitalistic Societies dont really follow Capitalism as it is laid out as an ideal. Every single ideal laid out on paper is perfect, every time you enact the ideals the flaws are seen in real world Societies. Communistic ideals laid out in the real world result in exactly what you have seen in every Communistic or Socialistic Society in the Modern Era, which is absolute destruction and misery with little to no benefits for the common man.

Again why is it that the actual Elite, who are pushing for a New World Order, are literally pushing Communism upon the youth? Why have they literally written in their own works that they themselves want to enact Communistic Societies? Do you really think those who proclaim themselves as the Elite and write out their plans for anyone to read would promote Communism if it wouldnt benefit THEM as opposed to you or me? Why do they want that Society? Why do they want YOU to desire to have that Society enacted upon you?
 

Etagloc

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So let me get this straight....you think private ownership is evil, but your "thing" is suing people for copyright infringement? Ok then....
Now I meant the posting pictures is my thing so I felt I was being copied.
 

Etagloc

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You completely ignored my first post and started an argument with me under the guise you had read it? How honest of you!

Because you're too lazy and entitled to read I will quickly tell you my interpretation, which you pridefully refused to read and address, explains when Jesus returns his system will look a lot more like communism than it will a capital system.

Now how dumb do you feel you acted like you read my interpretation yet we're asserting my position was capital based when it was communist based.

I was basically agreeing with you and you were too lazy to figure that out.

Study Christian communists.
I read the first bit of it. "Socialism/Communism will never be successful.". Everyone has heard this thesis a million times and you bring out old arguments. People have heard this stuff before. I've heard it many times. And no I'm not- especially now- interested in studying your 4-page masterpiece. Seriously, it's not cool to be rude to people because they don't want to study your four-page stuff. This is the internet age and that's not how you promote your writing.

"Now how dumb do you feel you acted like you read my interpretation yet we're asserting my position was capital based when it was communist based."

Not as dumb as I would feel if I took your religious beliefs seriously and thought "wow, now these are the words of an enlightened fellow".

Seriously, I'm tryna talk about stuff and you want to lower it to the level of dumb insults. I'm not interested in responding to you.
 
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