Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren

phipps

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Phipps... why do you stop at v.25?

We aren't talking about a piece of land, here-- we're speaking eternally-- salvation through Faith (SEE: IRREVOCABLE).

All Israel Shall Be Saved

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.

For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. For God has consigned all men to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all.

Of all judgments, spiritual judgments are the sorest; of these the apostle is here speaking. The restoration of the Jews is, in the course of things, far less improbable than the call of the Gentiles to be the children of Abraham; and though others now possess these privileges, it will not hinder their being admitted again.

By rejecting the gospel, and by their indignation at its being preached to the Gentiles, the Jews were become enemies to God; yet they are still to be favoured for the sake of their pious fathers. Though at present they are enemies to the gospel, for their hatred to the Gentiles; yet, when God's time is come, that will no longer exist, and God's love to their fathers will be remembered. True grace seeks not to confine God's favour. Those who find mercy themselves, should endeavour that through their mercy others also may obtain mercy.

Not that the Jews will be restored to have their priesthood, and temple, and ceremonies again; an end is put to all these; but they are to be brought to believe in Christ, the true become one sheep-fold with the Gentiles, under Christ the Great Shepherd. The captivities of Israel, their dispersion, and their being shut out from the church, are emblems of the believer's corrections for doing wrong; and the continued care of the Lord towards that people, and the final mercy and blessed restoration intended for them, show the patience and love of God.Romans 11:26 Commentaries
I know we are not talking about a piece of land. That has been one of my points and it is biblical. Israel in the Bible especially in the New Testament is not about land or genetics any more. It hasn't been for two thousand years. It is spiritual. Anyone who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour, have His faith and keep His commandments are Israel.

Paul has made it clear in his writings that no one group has been rejected for salvation. Salvation is open for all who accept it, Jew and Gentile alike. It should be remembered that the early converts to Christianity were all Jews, for example, the group that was converted on the Day of Pentecost.

“all Israel shall be saved” does not mean every Jew will by some divine decree have salvation in the end time. Nowhere does the Bible preach universalism, either for the entire human race or for a particular segment. Paul was hoping to save “some of them” (read vs 14). Some accepted the Messiah, some rejected Him, as it is with all other people groups.

We are all favoured by God. Jesus and the apostles make that very clear in the New Testament. This point caused a lot of contention in the early Christian Church because some Jews thought Gentiles were less than them. It took a special vision and miracle to convince the apostle Peter that the Gentiles had equal access to the grace of Christ (Acts 10; compare Acts 15:7–9) and that the gospel was to be carried to them, as well.

One writer wrote, “There is a mighty work to be done in our world. The Lord has declared that the Gentiles shall be gathered in, and not the Gentiles only, but the Jews. There are among the Jews many who will be converted, and through whom we shall see the salvation of God go forth as a lamp that burneth. There are Jews everywhere, and to them the light of present truth is to be brought. There are among them many who will come to the light, and who will proclaim the immutability of the law of God with wonderful power.”

Remember the Bible doesn't contradict itself. If something seems to contradict itself, then its us who've misunderstood it and we need to pray to God to give us understanding of what He is trying to tell us through His Word. God bless.
 

TokiEl

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The Wise and Foolish can be for another thread, and I think the same arguments apply to both anyway. I'm a dispensationalist and you're not. I believe the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, but people have not always been justified the same way.
Yes they have !

Both before and after Jesus people must repent... as in regret their transgressions of God's commandments.

Before the foundation of the world it was God's plan to spill His own blood for the remission of sins.


Likewise, how would someone alive during the Tribulation be able to believe by faith -- as we do today -- when there are angels circling the earth, trumpeting the gospel?
Salvation is not about being able to believe by faith but by actually repenting for transgressing God's commandments.

The three angels are informing the reader of the book of Revelation at a specific place in the order of events that God's judgement has come and Babylon is fallen and the Beast is rising with his image and his mark.


The Bible describes a very wild end times period, which includes, but is not limited to, 144,000 specially protected Jewish apostles of Jesus Christ, who will be preaching everywhere on earth,
Those are not Jewish apostles but the chosen of God from every lost tribe of Israel.


two prophets who will be preaching from Jerusalem, who will be assassinated and then resurrected by God before the world,
The two witnesses... well you are jumping to conclusions as to what is that and how it will go down.


as well as the aforementioned angel, who will be preaching the gospel to every person on earth in a language they understand.
The gospel is global... as in the whole world knows about Him.



Do you think persecution of the Jews is all done then?
They tried to invade Israel three times and when that didn't work they began with terror tactics. And the United Nations demand that Israel withdraws to pre 1967 borders which are not defensible with modern weapon technology.
 

TokiEl

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Many are waiting for the fulfilment of God's promises to ancient Israel. They expect the restoration of Israel in the Middle East even though the Bible clearly states that literal Israel gave up its right to be God's missionary nation because they rejected Christ.

Matthew 21:19 "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (The fig tree was a symbol of the Jewish nation.)

Matthew 24 32 Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

Those who expect the restoration of Israel in the Middle East must live on another planet... as Israel is already restored ! just as foretold by Jesus himself using the same fig tree symbolism.
 
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elsbet

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Anyone who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour, have His faith and keep His commandments are Israel.
Idk how you arrived at the heresy of Universalism-- the irrevocable covenant of God is the issue, here. Or... it could just be that you subscribe to the very un-biblical idea of Replacement theology-- and it seems like you do, despite all the additional (superfluous) info you added after this ^^. If so, we are at an impasse... no further discussion is necessary.
 

phipps

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Idk how you arrived at the heresy of Universalism-- the irrevocable covenant of God is the issue, here. Or... it could just be that you subscribe to the very un-biblical idea of Replacement theology-- and it seems like you do, despite all the additional (superfluous) info you added after this ^^. If so, we are at an impasse... no further discussion is necessary.
Remember you responded to me first but yet you want to control when this discussion ends? I will respond whether you read it or not.

Your message is that Jews will be saved. That is universalism for a sect of people and its contradictory the word of God.

There are two covenants in the Bible. Old and New covenants. Here is what Paul says about them. Perhaps you should study the covenants more to understand what they were about and why we needed a New covenant to replace the Old one. I'll tell you that the Old covenant was about the Jews and New covenant is universal.

"But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord" (Hebrews 8:6-9 emphasis mine).

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 8:10-12).

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance" (Hebrews 9:15).

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Hebrews 13:20).

Jesus said, "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you" (Luke 22:20).


Everyone can inteprete Scripture whatever way they want, that is their choice but the message of who is a true Jew in the Bible is clear and does not contradict itself. God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different one for non-Jews. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program—by grace through faith. Paul uses the analogy of the olive tree to explain that all Gentiles who are saved are grafted into the stock of Israel in Romans 11:17-18.

We are saved based on choices we make regarding God’s provision, not on national status or physical citizenship. But if, when Paul says that “all Israel will be saved,” he is speaking of spiritual Israel, and if we understand that we become a “true Jew” only by a choice, then it all makes sense.

We should base our beliefs on what the Bible teaches.

God bless.
 
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elsbet

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Remember you responded to me first but yet you want to control when this discussion ends? I will respond whether you read it or not.

Your message is that Jews will be saved. That is universalism for a sect of people and its contradictory the word of God.

There are two covenants in the Bible. Old and New covenants. Here is what Paul says about them. Perhaps you should study the covenants more to understand what they were about and why we needed a New covenant to replace the Old one. I'll tell you that the Old covenant was about the Jews and New covenant is universal.

"But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord" (Hebrews 8:6-9 emphasis mine).

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 8:10-12).

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance" (Hebrews 9:15).

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Hebrews 13:20).

Jesus said, "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you" (Luke 22:20).


Everyone can interrupt Scripture whatever way they want, that is their choice but the message of who is a true Jew in the Bible is clear and does not contradict itself. God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different one for non-Jews. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program—by grace through faith. Paul uses the analogy of the olive tree to explain that all Gentiles who are saved are grafted into the stock of Israel in Romans 11:17-18.

We are saved based on choices we make regarding God’s provision, not on national status or physical citizenship. But if, when Paul says that “all Israel will be saved,” he is speaking of spiritual Israel, and if we understand that we become a “true Jew” only by a choice, then it all makes sense.

We should base our beliefs on what the Bible teaches.

God bless.
Its not about controlling anything-- I just don't believe in Replacement theology.

That you seem to ignore the verses in Romans 11, and the accompanying commentary (and related verses) that show otherwise-- and Paul clearly differentiates between the Gentiles and the Jews-- and call it Universalism? I think that's nonsense. The remnant now, as then, will be saved, in accordance with God's irrevocable covenant. You're welcome to your belief, but it is a false doctrine, afaic.

The evidence manifests itself further, and quite plainly, imo-- those who subscribe to Replacement theology tend to have a thing against Jews-- and that belief (RT) seems to enable them to feel justified about it. I'm not into it.


SEE: PULPIT COMMENTARY
God hath not [cast] away his people which he foreknew (or, predetermined)...

The Jews are not finally rejected, but, through the calling of the Gentiles, will be brought into the Church at last.

St. Paul, painfully recognizing the fact of the present exclusion of Israel as a nation from the inheritance of the promises made to their fathers, and having in ch. 9. and 10. accounted for and justified such exclusion, proceeds now to the question - But is Israel as a nation finally rejected after all? He answers - No; impossible! God's ancient covenant with his people stands; the remnant of believers even now is a sign of his continued favour to his ancient people, as was, in the time of Elijah, the remnant that had not bowed the knee to Baal; nor does the fact of its being a remnant only imply now, any more than then, that the nation as such is cast off; and further, the calling of the Gentiles, far from being intended to exclude God's ancient people, will be the means eventually of bringing it wholly in.
---
 

Etagloc

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"Christian" Zionists are eerie, psychopathic people. How someone can give forked-tongue talks on "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren" and then defend the murder of innocent Palestinians in the next breath is eerie and disturbing.

It's a real-life example of wolf in sheep's clothes. Such people are human devils. They have forked tongues and serve Satan. A person has to be really evil to be in such a way. It's a disturbing thing and for me it brings to mind the character from Psycho.



"Christian" Zionists are real-life Norman Bates characters.
 

phipps

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Old Covenant Israel

Summary: God's covenants to His people are always contingent on obedience. Unfortunately, history shows that obedience is easier said than done.

The Old Testament is full of God's promises to His people Israel. But these were not simply one-sided vows. They were two-sided covenants that required absolute compliance from both parties.

After God helped the Israelites escape from Egypt, He entered into a covenant with them (Exodus 19:1-8). He said that Israel was to become a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. They were to spread God's light to all people on Earth (see Isaiah 60:1-3). But this covenant was conditional to obedience:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5, emphasis added).

The promise involved an “if.” Later, King David and his son Solomon were told that their family would always be on the throne of Israel, if they would obey:

"If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee a man on the throne of Israel" (1 Kings 2:4, emphasis added).

This promise was repeated in 1 Kings 9:5-7:

"Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man on the throne of Israel. But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statues which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them: Then I will cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, I will cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people."

Forfeiting the Blessing

Deuteronomy 28:1-14 contains a list of blessings God promised to Israel—the most wonderful blessings ever given. Again, these promises were conditional to obedience. Strict warnings were given about the curses that would occur if Israel chose not to obey.

Unfortunately, Israel did not keep God's commands, and became even more corrupt than the nations around them (2 Kings 17:6-23). Disobedience barred Israel from receiving its promised blessings.

In fact, all of Israel's tribes except Judah and Benjamin were carried away into captivity by the king of Assyria and disappear from history. A century and a half later, even Judah was plucked from the Promised Land and scattered in the Neo-Babylonian Empire.

Nevertheless, some remained faithful to God even in exile. Daniel and his friends were willing to face death rather than disobey God.

God gave Israel a second chance. They were to return to their land after 70 years of exile (Jeremiah 31:10-14; Isaiah 43:1-13) and rebuild the temple. They would again have the opportunity to be witnesses to the nations (Micah 4:1-4; 5:2-6; Zechariah 8:20-23). Again, all these promises were conditional to obedience (Zechariah 6:15).

Daniel’s prophecies predicted the coming of the Messiah, but Israel rejected the Messiah, forfeiting its covenant role and the covenant promises:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Matthew 23:37–39).

Amazing discoveries.
 
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phipps

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New Covenant Israel

Summary: When ancient Israel rejected the good news of Jesus, the Gospel spread to the whole world—every nation and people.

When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the Gospel was spread to all nations. All who believe in the name of Jesus can now become the spiritual descendants of Abraham (Galatians 3:16, 29; Romans 4:16; 9:3-8).

The apostle Paul calls Christians “the Israel of God” and “the circumcision.” God gave circumcision to Abraham as a symbol of belonging to God's people. When Paul refers to all Christians as “the circumcision,” he reminds us that the Kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel. This new circumcision is not of the body but of the heart.

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder" (Matthew 21:43-44).

Any who permit Christ to transform them and to change their character receive the new name of “Israel,” just as Jacob did thousands of years ago.

Jesus did not choose 12 disciples by accident. Just as the 12 patriarchs were the founders of ancient Israel, so these 12 men are the foundation stones of new Israel (Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30). The subsequent choice of 70 others is modelled after the choice of 70 elders by Moses in ancient Israel (Numbers 11:16).


God Looks on the Heart

Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews. First, there are the Jews who are only natural, physical descendants of Abraham. Second, there are the Jews in Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul writes, “Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God” (Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29).

Did you catch that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is “called a Jew” because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, “is not a Jew”—at least, not in God’s eyes. His “circumcision is made uncircumcision.” It is revoked. Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps “the righteousness of the law,” his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew.

John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. “Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham” (Matthew 3:8-9).

Later, Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. “They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham … Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do” (John 8:39, 44).

Paul also writes, “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham” (Galatians 3:7). “For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh” (Philippians 3:3). Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody—Jew or Gentile—who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!

Eventually, this truth hit Peter between the eyes, and he told a room full of Gentile converts, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34-35).

Amazing discoveries/Amazingfacts.
 

TokiEl

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"Christian" Zionists are eerie, psychopathic people.
Zionists recognize Israel's right to exist.

And you can call that what you want.


You are the attackers who whine when Israel fights back !

Is that an Arab or a Muslim trait ?
 

phipps

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Jesus' Prophecy Concerning the Temple

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (Matthew 24:1-2).

It happened just as Jesus predicted, and for nearly two thousand years since its destruction by the hands of the Romans, there has been no temple. There’s been no need since His crucifixion, because the barrier—the veil—between man and God has been removed. In Matthew 27:51, we read that at the moment Jesus died on the cross, “the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.” There is no longer any need for a temple where men can offer sacrifices, because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, once, for all humankind. "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" (Hebrews 10:12).

If we no longer need the physical sacrifices of animals—or the intervention of Levitical priests—to obtain forgiveness of sin, then there’s no need for a temple. It would not be the house of God.
 

Thunderian

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Israel in the Bible especially in the New Testament is not about land or genetics any more. It hasn't been for two thousand years. It is spiritual.
I still don't know how we are to know whether a prophecy is to be fulfilled in the literal sense or not. Can you explain it to me?

I've studied the Bible, and I don't recall ever coming across a fulfilled prophecy that came about in the spiritual sense, and not in the literal. But now every prophecy of things still to come isn't to be taken literally? What is the scriptural case for this doctrine?

The apostle Paul speaks in Galatians about finishing in the flesh what's been started in the spirit, and I think the principle applies that spiritual things remain spiritual, and literal things remain literal. Obviously the Bible uses symbols and simile as a way of conveying messages -- for instance, when Jesus Christ is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and the branch of righteousness, no one thinks our Lord is a literal lion or a branch. Common sense and context should be our guide when reading the word of God. Dismissing so much prophecy as "spiritual" pays attention to neither.

When the Bible says that Jesus Christ, who literally fulfilled prophecy with his literal birth, literal death and literal resurrection, will at some point in the future sit in righteousness and rule the earth from Jerusalem, I don't know see any reason why the literal Jesus Christ would not continue to literally fulfill the prophecies concerning himself.
 
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