If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

[Etagloc]

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

the entire OT is false

A myth is neither false or true. It is a myth written to give lessons.

I would respect you if you were totally divorced from the entire abrahimic tradition

I basically am. That is why we call Yahweh and Allah pricks and demiurges. No one who adheres to Yahweh or Allah think that their God is a prick, even though they show themselves to be immoral pricks quite often. I call that moral dissonance as theists ignore the immorality of those pricks.

According to the guru granth sahib, there is only one truth and ONE GOD but religions all have different ideas of who that God is. What's important is that we have a personal relationship with God and don't just follow empty rituals.

I agree with your guru. The only way you can have a personal relationship with God is to follow Jesus' way and take the judgement seat and become the one true God you were created to be.

-slaves have rights too..

You obviously misuse and misinterpret the words slave and rights.

It is also FAR superior to free slaves and not own them.

Exactly why Allah is a prick just like Yahweh is. Both have slave holding ideologies. Allah demands submission/slavery and Yahweh demands obedience/slavery for the theists to be rewarded and not abused by hell.

in the modern age muslims are suffering heavily

I agree and see the ideology to blame. It has cause many Muslims to be less intelligent than the norm and that has quite an effect on individual prosperity levels. Muslims are presently at the bottom of the education barrel and have put a millstone around their necks by keeping their women uneducated. Some Muslim majority countries are learning this and changing their ways but the less progressive Muslim countries are still keeping their women uneducated. Check the Nobel Prize stats. Muslims are a small minority, even as they led the way in older more civilized times.

care to show me what else is particularly cruel about Allah?

He is quite intolerant of other religions and does not grant women and gays equality. He insults all Muslims by his carnal view that men would actually want a bunch of virgins in heaven.

what exactly has your religion offered as a superior truth?

That, as Jesus said, man is the light of the world. Not some invisible prick of a God.

All the superior truth Allah and Yahweh offer is that man will always be inferior to them and their master while they remain submissive and obedient brain dead slaves.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

No, because you're probably wrong. Lumping things together is how haters survive. There's good people and truth in all religions...along with the opposite.

Sigh.

Yet here you are lumping all religions in your blanket statement.

Strange how you would deny me doing exactly what you are doing.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Nobody won those fights.

Slavery no longer exists in the West because the religious that were against it fought those who embraced it and FMPOV, the whole world won.

Quite the feat considering that both Christianity and Islam idol worship Gods who demand that their followers be slaved to every tenet be it moral or not.

I do take your point though for many other instances.

Religious conflict will remain with us until the day Christians and Muslims do as Jesus bid them and closet themselves to pray and stop hypocritically trying to show how chaste and spiritual they are.

The one-upmanship of the Gods must end.

None of them have dicks so there should be no pissing contests.

Regards
DL

 

[Aero]

Slavery no longer exists in the West because the religious that were against it fought those who embraced it and FMPOV, the whole world won.

Quite the feat considering that both Christianity and Islam idol worship Gods who demand that their followers be slaved to every tent be it moral or not.

I do take your point though for many other instances.

Religious conflict will remain with us until the day Christians and Muslims do as Jesus bid them and closet themselves to pray and stop hypocritically trying to show how chaste and spiritual they are.

The one-upmanship of the Gods must end.

None of them have dicks so there should be no passing contests.

Regards
DL

That depends on your definition of slavery. The west has abolished legalized slavery, but there's a difference. Many people are still "owned" by the institutional power structures. Personally I don't think the West is that far removed from any of that shit. It's just something people don't talk about, or admit to.

 

[mecca]

I agree and see the ideology to blame. It has cause many Muslims to be less intelligent than the norm and that has quite an effect on individual prosperity levels... Check the Nobel Prize stats. Muslims are a small minority, even as they led the way in older more civilized times.

They led the way in the past but they still had the same religion. Wouldn't that mean that the religion isn't at fault?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Sharia denies Muslin females full equality and makes all Muslim women second class citizens.

Sharia and Islam are slave holding ideologies that all free men will shun as the first duty od free people is to insure that all share that freedom.

Regards
DL

Isaiah 53
where Jesus is called God's slave/servant numerous times, and it's not the only instance.
Yeh slave holding ideology........

How exactly are you free? you don't even understand basic monotheistic theology.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Who is sitting on the heavenly judgement seat?

Jesus is and that is dismissing God.



That is quite the assumption.

You have no way of knowing anything about the supernatural or God. If you do, tell us how you know.

Regards
DL

He sits at the right hand of God.. it is a metaphorical description implying he is the closest one to God. I have no problem with that. The throne symbolises God's power, it is not literal.

As for my huge assumption...again basic theology held by major monothiestic religions
God being both Transcendent and Immanent, is true for jews, christians, muslims, sikhs and even some classes of hindus.
This isn't something i even need to experience on a high level to believe in
ie the belief in a Transcendent God is usually the basis on which people even accept the idea of a supreme universal God..and the belief in God's Immanence is as simple as believing Love or Mercy are from God and shared in creation.

I don't know what idea you have of God but in your belief God has absolutely nothing to do with the material world....so you pretty much cannot accept Jesus Christ either since he represents God's Immanence anyway.

 

[AspiringSoul]

A myth is neither false or true. It is a myth written to give lessons.



I basically am. That is why we call Yahweh and Allah pricks and demiurges. No one who adheres to Yahweh or Allah think that their God is a prick, even though they show themselves to be immoral pricks quite often. I call that moral dissonance as theists ignore the immorality of those pricks.



I agree with your guru. The only way you can have a personal relationship with God is to follow Jesus' way and take the judgement seat and become the one true God you were created to be.



You obviously misuse and misinterpret the words slave and rights.



Exactly why Allah is a prick just like Yahweh is. Both have slave holding ideologies. Allah demands submission/slavery and Yahweh demands obedience/slavery for the theists to be rewarded and not abused by hell.



I agree and see the ideology to blame. It has cause many Muslims to be less intelligent than the norm and that has quite an effect on individual prosperity levels. Muslims are presently at the bottom of the education barrel and have put a millstone around their necks by keeping their women uneducated. Some Muslim majority countries are learning this and changing their ways but the less progressive Muslim countries are still keeping their women uneducated. Check the Nobel Prize stats. Muslims are a small minority, even as they led the way in older more civilized times.



He is quite intolerant of other religions and does not grant women and gays equality. He insults all Muslims by his carnal view that men would actually want a bunch of virgins in heaven.



That, as Jesus said, man is the light of the world. Not some invisible prick of a God.

All the superior truth Allah and Yahweh offer is that man will always be inferior to them and their master while they remain submissive and obedient brain dead slaves.

Regards
DL

1) All texts have part mythology but they also contain a lot of core theology that isn't purely mthological. The prophecies, were not mythological. The promises were not mythological. Jesus coming as the messiah wasn't a mythological belief, so basically you should completely disassociate yourself from Jesus who worshipped Yahweh, evidently.

2) You just said the OT was mythological, now you talk about Yahweh like it's all absolutely true ie 'he must be a prick because he did xyz'
i can't stress enough how shit your logic is so far mate.
3) I agree with your guru. The only way you can have a personal relationship with God is to follow Jesus' way and take the judgement seat and become the one true God you were created to be.

has absolutely zero relevance to what Jesus actually said.
4) The ideology which tells us it's an act of jihad to seek knowledge?
if you don't know anything, it's better to not say anything at all. You're clearly spouting rubbish.
5) He is quite intolerant of other religions and does not grant women and gays equality. He insults all Muslims by his carnal view that men would actually want a bunch of virgins in heaven.
It is ironic here since you believe in demiurges and that the material world is controlled by an evil being. So by the same thought process anything that's remotely 'carnal' in nature, should be seen as completely evil by a gnostic who apparently wants to unite with the universal consciousness/God/essence whatever...yet you expect Allah to erm.....be okay with homosexuality.
Does not grand women equality? in what way? you clearly do not know islam in that case, the only case of difference is due to our roles in society abd basic biology. No matter how much you attempt to create gender equality the fact is in the vast majority of the world, men are the breadwinners. Again, ironically, in islam sex is not an evil, it is attachment to the temporal world that's evil so the idea of sex in paradise would not be evil anyway...not that the Quran actually mentions 'sex'
it is your own mindset...the word is 'pure companion'
that could in essence mean so many things.

6) That, as Jesus said, man is the light of the world. Not some invisible prick of a God.
except he never once said that. quit making shit up

7) All the superior truth Allah and Yahweh offer is that man will always be inferior to them and their master while they remain submissive and obedient brain dead slaves.

you don't quite understand the concept of ihsan in islam and how that relates to the slaves/sons of God themes in the NT. There's basically a lot of silly assumptions and shit language from you who ironically judges me when i call you an idiot.
God to me is the Eternal Essence and this idea of being a slave to Him makes more sense than being a slave to my temporal desires
being a 'slave to' refers to our ultimate desire...there's nothing wrong with desire.
For example, you desire to be Rich........we all do. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the desire, it's where/how we seek to fulfill it that's the difference ie I believe God is the source of wealth and therefore to have God in my life is also synonymous with being 'rich'.


you're not even a proper gnostic, i've read gnostic texts before and they don't spout random shit like
'climb onto the judgement seat'
so you mean all 7billion humans can all be God at the same time? and all sit on our own judgement seat..and then judge what exactly, each other? what an absolute bellend you are.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

That depends on your definition of slavery. The west has abolished legalized slavery, but there's a difference. Many people are still "owned" by the institutional power structures. Personally I don't think the West is that far removed from any of that shit. It's just something people don't talk about, or admit to.

The intelligent do.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I think so Bishop, for example see this recent post from our forums resident Jihadist.

Also, I don't care about people's obsession with freedom. I do not care about the individual. I believe men shoud be drafted and sent to die if necessary and I don't think women are any more valuable. I am sick of hearing so much about freedom and rights- not from you but in general. I hear a lot about freedom and rights. What about responsibilities and duties?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "anti-freedom" in a sense that I don't think humans should have any freedom. However, I believe the pendulum has gone too far, too extreme in the direction of excessive "freedom" (which paradoxically isn't freedom at all because it enslaves people to their passions). The pendulum must be pushed in the opposite direction and it must have a forceful push with all of one's strength behind it. This way, with the push, the pendulum is moved towards the middle. I'm not saying the pendulum has to be at the opposite extreme. If it was at the opposite extreme, I'd be all for "freedom". However, because "freedom" has been pushed too far and, for example, you have women who think they're entitled to march naked..... for the pendulum to reach a middle ground, one must push the pendulum in a direction which is anti-freedom- that way the pendulum is brought into the middle.

What rights we have come from God.

Men and women do have rights. Our rights are those which are given to us by God.

Islam, much like Nazism is incompatible with freedom as this dog admits. If you let it gain a foothold it will only lead to slavery and mass murder ( same with far right Christianity such as Reconstructionism ).

So yes it is the duty of all free-thinking believers in liberty to oppose these ideologies.

 

[AspiringSoul]

I think so Bishop, for example see this recent post from our forums resident Jihadist.



Islam, much like Nazism is incompatible with freedom as this dog admits. If you let it gain a foothold it will only lead to slavery and mass murder ( same with far right Christianity such as Reconstructionism ).

So yes it is the duty of all free-thinking believers in liberty to oppose these ideologies.

'they want to take away our freedumb'

so?

'so we must take away their freedumb'

not the brightest girl are you?

 

[Colonel Valerio]

'they want to take away our freedumb'

so?

'so we must take away their freedumb'

not the brightest girl are you?

Those who wish to take away your freedoms must be stopped. I don’t believe in freedom for Nazis or Jihadis, if they won’t allow me mine, and I won’t sit around and let them take it. It’s a necessary pre-emptive strike.

Every Muslim majority country is a backwards authoritarian hellscape.

I am also not surprised that you take toothpastes side, as there is no such thing as moderate Islam.

 

[Etagloc]

I think so Bishop, for example see this recent post from our forums resident Jihadist.



Islam, much like Nazism is incompatible with freedom as this dog admits. If you let it gain a foothold it will only lead to slavery and mass murder ( same with far right Christianity such as Reconstructionism ).

So yes it is the duty of all free-thinking believers in liberty to oppose these ideologies.

I'm a religious conservative, not remotely a "Jihadist". Believing that prayer in schools is a good thing and being anti-abortion doesn't equal "Jihadist".

I agree with Paul on this:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

-Ephesians 6:12

There is a spiritual conflict going on, as has been the case for all of human history after humans left the Garden of Eden.

It is a conflict between God and the Devil over the soul of humans. You represent the Devil so that is why for example you use lies. This is also why you militantly defended Aleister Crowley and are a former (?) satanist.

I do believe in freedom. I believe people are free to their beliefs, free to their religion, etc.

but I do not believe humans are, for example, free to practice infanticide or march naked in protests. Going that far is an extreme so I'm actually for a moderate path and opposing extremes. I don't believe in people having zero freedom but I also don't believe in people doing whatever they want- that is true. There has to be rules. I don't believe satanists have rights to build statues in court houses or things like that.

Also, as a side-note, I'm against Nazism. I do believe that international Jewish bankers in New York were behind the Bolsheviks (Jacob Schiff, for example) and I'm well-aware that Leon Trotsky rode around in a limousine and I do believe the Protocols are authentic.......

however, I'm against white nationalism- whether it is in the form of Hitlerism or Marxist imperialism

 

[elsbet]

Those who wish to take away your freedoms must be stopped. I don’t believe in freedom for Nazis or Jihadis, if they won’t allow me mine, and I won’t sit around and let them take it. It’s a necessary pre-emptive strike.

Every Muslim majority country is a backwards authoritarian hellscape.

I am also not surprised that you take toothpastes side, as there is no such thing as moderate Islam.

HELLSCAPE​

That might go in my signature. I'll credit you, of course.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Those who wish to take away your freedoms must be stopped. I don’t believe in freedom for Nazis or Jihadis, if they won’t allow me mine, and I won’t sit around and let them take it. It’s a necessary pre-emptive strike.

Every Muslim majority country is a backwards authoritarian hellscape.

there's no such thing as absolute freedom. Every society requires laws and basic morals.
You should try to be more specific and argue against the exact areas of freedom a guy like @Etagloc opposes.
For example, he's gone a bit extreme saying 'women are allowed to go naked therefore we need to remove/limit some of their freedom to control them'...because in reality women aren't usually going around naked. it isn't strictly against the law outright but the way he talks about it, it would come under 'Indecent exposure'. So said 'anti-freedumbz' rules already exist...so i suppose we're living under nazi rule?

As for the last part, that's your perception because you've judged nations like Pakistan with over 180m people, based on examples you've seen in the news, usually the worst examples.
Furthermore, we know most those muslim countries are either rich in natural resources or strategically important lands to control oil pipelines or access to central asia and the gulf. Basically these countries either have had puppet regimes or experienced extreme revolutions either nationalistic or religious...

Turkey was ruled by ottomans who'd become puppets under the guise of religious rule, a fake 'caliphate'. Their revolution was nationalistic and secular.
Iran was ruled by the shah or iran, who was a western secular puppet, a wannabe Attaturk. Their revolution was religious.
See the basic pattern?
i suppose in your infinite wisdom, turkey is a nicer place because it's secular...
it's nicer because it doesn't posess oil like iran, hence they've kind of been left alone.
iran under the shah of iran was piss poor for the majority of people, that's why they overthrew their government with a shia revivalist revolution.
If Iran was truely free from western meddling, it would be one of the richest nations on earth. in that type of world though, you would be eating shit sandwiches for dinner.

Now about the wonderful freedumbz you enjoy
let's delve deeper here
European christians were good at slaughtering each other...they did it for centuries and centuries. That's how they developed their artilleries. The rest of the world was relatively peaceful in comparison, that's why they didn't advance in warfare like europeans.
So after exhausting their own resources, they began raiding other people..and the age of colonialism began.
Then they realised there wasn't much room left in the colonial race, so they had to fight each other again. 2 world wars right?
plus it's only off the proceeds of colonialism, europeans experienced the industrial revolution, wealth and hence 'the enlightenment'.
How fucking hypocritical for YOU to talk about muslim countries and islam?

 

[Etagloc]

there's no such thing as absolute freedom. Every society requires laws and basic morals.
You should try to be more specific and argue against the exact areas of freedom a guy like @Etagloc opposes.
For example, he's gone a bit extreme saying 'women are allowed to go naked therefore we need to remove/limit some of their freedom to control them'...because in reality women aren't usually going around naked. it isn't strictly against the law outright but the way he talks about it, it would come under 'Indecent exposure'. So said 'anti-freedumbz' rules already exist...so i suppose we're living under nazi rule?

I've seen pictures where they show feminists protesting naked. It's been happening in multiple countries as far as I'm aware.

I mean we should stop people from going to extremes like protesting naked.

Of course I believe we all have God-given rights.

I believe it is an underlying liberal ideology that is behind such phenomena as women protesting naked in the streets.

I disagree with the underlying liberal ideology and believe that there is too much emphasis on freedom and individualism.

I don't think we should take away people's natural, reasonable freedoms.

My position is basically like Paul's in Galatians:

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

-Galatians 5:13

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Etagloc remember we talked about 'hikmah' before..sometimes by actively trying to stop something, you only make it worse. you have to judge the situation, know who you're dealing with, their mentality etc. they're basically attention whores....why give them that attention? in fact, by obsessing/thinking of them, your heart will reflect them more...you'll see more of them.

So it's ironic you're quoting Paul
Paul said
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.

 

[Etagloc]

@Etagloc remember we talked about 'hikmah' before..sometimes by actively trying to stop something, you only make it worse. you have to judge the situation, know who you're dealing with, their mentality etc. they're basically attention whores....why give them that attention? in fact, by obsessing/thinking of them, your heart will reflect them more...you'll see more of them.

So it's ironic you're quoting Paul
Paul said
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.

I don't deny the validity of your approach. I think either approach is valid.

Some people don't want to examine.... what could be called metaphorically, "the abyss"

myself I am fascinated with darkness.... I think we're both familiar with the Tao Te Ching.....

in that terminology... look at how yin is viewed..... my concept of what darkness is is similar....

to give a concrete example, look at how rewarding it is to study the histories which are.... not necessarily pleasant....

the birth of a nation as with a person often is bloody.... no way am I promoting that but it's just an observation.....

states tend to be founded with revolutions, partitions, etc.

look at how important WW2 is historically

of course, war is maybe less common today in the developed world but.... wars, revolutions, etc. tend to found or end a state/dynasty/etc

there's value in studying the dark side of humanity just as there is value in studying ugly periods in history or studying disease

Honestly, what should unite pretty much anyone who is reading this is conspiracy. I think what I've described is some of the implicit theory behind studying conspiracy theory.

 

[mecca]

Every Muslim majority country is a backwards authoritarian hellscape.

That's actually not even true. The Muslim religion itself, like all religions, can be expressed in both a positive or a negative way. In current history there have been dangerous extremist versions of the religion that have spread and reversed progress in certain countries, but that doesn't mean the the entire religion itself is like that or that those countries have always been that way. The people who are most victimized by extremist religious violence in the middle east are Muslims themselves. And they obviously don't support the ideology that's killing them.