Idf Openly Assisting Isis Once Again

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
Rebuilding Gaza could take a century if Israel keeps blockade
Maybe they should use the building materials they have to rebuild Gaza instead of for tunnels to attack Israel. Then rebuilding wouldn't take so long, and Israel might lift the blockade.



 

UnderAlienControl

Superstar
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
8,020
Maybe they should use the building materials they have to rebuild Gaza instead of for tunnels to attack Israel. Then rebuilding wouldn't take so long, and Israel might lift the blockade.



So, by that logic every time Israel blows up Gaza, Israel is essentially providing Hamas materials for tunnels. After all, if they didn't blow it up, then Hamas wouldn't get materials for tunnels. Oh, logic...
 
Last edited:

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
if they didn't blow it up, then Hamas wouldn't get materials for tunnels
If you're so concerned with the pace of reconstruction in Gaza, let us know what actions you're taking to put pressure on Hamas to use Palestinian resources for rebuilding instead of for war. Because right now, they continue to use money and material to build tunnels instead of anything actually useful, while people like you go on about the blockade.
 

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
If you're so concerned with the pace of reconstruction in Gaza, let us know what actions you're taking to put pressure on Hamas to use Palestinian resources for rebuilding instead of for war. Because right now, they continue to use money and material to build tunnels instead of anything actually useful, while people like you go on about the blockade.
You are 100% correct, the Hamas are working against the best interest of the Palestinian people and even without their approval,

Let's say they build all their tunnels and manage to do a mega-terror attack, killing 10000 Israeli citizens, what then?

There will be nothing of Palestine left, its like mass suicide, not logical.

So all the tunnel building gives perfect excuse to the IDF to attack while keeping the Palestinians poor and living in garbage, its perfect .

I was saying the Hamas is a Mossad operation even though 99.5% of it members don't know it
 

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
So, by that logic every time Israel blows up Gaza, Israel is essentially providing Hamas materials for tunnels. After all, if they didn't blow it up, then Hamas wouldn't get materials for tunnels. Oh, logic...
Because that's the whole point of the deal:

We [Israel] give you [ Hamas leaders] a ton of money, power and protection and even building materials.

And you [ Hamas ] keep the show running , show your people the "fight" is alive and strong, keep them poor and brainwashed, crush any real opposition the Palestinians might raise, build tunnels with our material, so we can show the world how stupid and evil you are.

It doesn't get better than this
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
That map, and similar ones, are lies. Here is an explanation of how they are perpetuating falsehood against Jews with those maps.


This map is a lie.

The first panel of the traditional version of this map has the biggest lie:


While I presume that the white sections are indeed the land that was privately owned by Jews, the land in green was not privately owned by Arabs.

Only a tiny percentage of land in Palestine was privately owned. The various categories of land ownership included:
  • Mulk: privately owned in the Western sense.
  • Miri: Land owned by the government (originally the Ottoman crown) and suitable for agricultural use. Individuals could purchase a deed to cultivate this land and pay a tithe to the government. Ownership could be transferred only with the approval of the state. Miri rights could be transferred to heirs, and the land could be sub-let to tenants. If the owner died without an heir or the land was not cultivated for three years, the land would revert to the state.
  • Mahlul: Uncultivated Miri lands that would revert to the state, in theory after three years.
  • Mawat (or Mewat): So-called “dead”, unreclaimed land. It constituted about 50 to 60% of the land in Palestine. It belonged to the government. ...If the land had been cultivated with permission, it would be registered, at least under the Mandate, free of charge.

By the early 1940s Jews owned about one third of Mulk land in Palestine and Arabs about two-thirds. The vast majority of the total land, however, belonged to the government, meaning that when the state of Israel was established, it became legally Israel's. (I believe that about 77% of the land was owned by the government, assuming 6 million dunams of private land as shown in this invaluable webpage on the topic from which I got much of this information.)

To say that the green areas were "Palestinian" land is simply a lie.


In the case of this version of the map, the lie is even worse, as the implication is that pre-1948 Palestine was an entirely Arab country with no Jews and no Jewish land ownership. Of course, before 1948 the word "Palestinian" more often than not referred to Palestinian Jews, not Palestinian Arabs. For example, the Palestine exhibit at the 1939 World's Fair was entirely Jewish, the Palestine Orchestra was entirely Jewish, the Palestine soccer team was almost entirely Jewish, and so forth.

Now the next one:



While this is a somewhat accurate representation of the partition plan (with the notable exception of Jerusalem, which was meant to be an international city,), it has nothing to do with land ownership. The entire purpose of this map is to make it appear that Israel has been grabbing Arab land consistently, to serve as a bridge between maps 1 and 3. What is not said, of course, is that Israel accepted the partition and the Arabs did not, so as a result Israel in 1949 looked like it does in map 3.

Map 3 is still a lie, however, because in no way was the green land "Palestinian" at that time. Gaza was administered by Egypt and the West Bank annexed by Jordan. No one at the time spoke about a Palestinian Arab state on the areas controlled by Arab states - only in Israel.

In other words, this progression of maps is a series of lies meant to push a bigger lie, and it is tragic that a lot of people believe them to be the truth.

Here is a small attempt on my side to show a more accurate picture of Israel's giving land it controlled up for peace since 1967:

This map shows that Israel gave up control of the Sinai, Gaza, Southern Lebanon and much of the West Bank over the years. Rather than falsely accusing Israel as a land-grabbing rogue state, it accurately shows Israel as perhaps the only state in history that has voluntarily given up more than two-thirds of the areas it controls in exchange for nothing more than a paper agreement - or sometimes not even that. All at the risk of serious security concerns for her people, no less.

This is all because Israel wants, desperately, to live in real peace with her neighbors. This desire is not reciprocated by those neighbors, unfortunately.

The real map shows the truth of Israel's incredible concessions in the often vain hope for peace.
Regardless, it doesn't come close to answering my question.

Why is Israel perpetuating endless war with Palestinians? If the goal was land, they would already have it. Think about this, and try not to answer in the form of a meme.
 

UnderAlienControl

Superstar
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
8,020
They can't have the land because people are still on it. They've pushed them off of what land they can, and they want the rest of them to leave. Make them so miserable that they will move on to other countries, specifically Jordan I would imagine. It still hasn't worked after 50 years, but the plan moves onward. Didn't you watch the interview with "Ben Nitay"? I think he put it all out there in the interview and this is exactly what he said. Apparently, his views haven't changed after all these years. No 2 state solution in his mind even then, way back when. So obviously, that's never going to happen and never was. I don't know why everybody's still pretending it will. Talk, bomb, build-that's OBVIOUSLY the plan. And btw, when land is "occupied" it means you don't have the right to build on it, only to administer it. So, with all the demolition and building and defiance of UN resolutions, this whole shebang is the definition of colonization. And the high leadership admitting the '67 war was a land grab proves it.

Israel used 'calorie count' to limit Gaza food during blockade, critics claim
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza

Robert Turner, UNRWA's director of operations in the Gaza Strip, told Haaretz that he "read the draft with concern. If this reflects an authentic policy intended to cap food imports, this 'red lines' approach is contrary to humanitarian principles. If it is intended to prevent a humanitarian crisis by setting a minimum threshold, it has failed."
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2-279-calories-per-person-how-israel-made-sure-gaza-didn-t-starve.premium-1.470419


Wikileaks has published diplomatic cables that showed Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza’s economy “on the brink of collapse” while avoiding a humanitarian crisis.

Between stuff like this and firing white phosphorous on civilians, this is pretty horrific...

That map, and similar ones, are lies. Here is an explanation of how they are perpetuating falsehood against Jews with those maps.
If calling it "land loss" bugs you so much, then let's invert it and call it "land gain" instead ;)
 
Last edited:

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
You are great at making statements and repeating things that you clearly don't examine. So let's examine the things you're saying.

They can't have the land because people are still on it. They've pushed them off of what land they can, and they want the rest to leave.
What is stopping them from pushing the rest off?

Make them so miserable that they will move on to other countries, specifically Jordan I would imagine.
You mean the same Jordan they signed a peace deal with almost 25 years ago? The same Jordan that Israel has let administer the Temple Mount for 50 years? That Jordan?

Tell me, do facts ever have any bearing on the things you say?

It still hasn't worked after 50 years, but the plan moves onward.
It hasn't worked because it isn't a plan. It only exists in the fevered imaginations of idiots. Everything that Israel has done, despite the wild-eyed prophecies of people like you for a half century (much longer, actually, since we can see that kind of loony antisemitism even back in ancient Egypt), has been for peace. They won the Sinai from Egypt, and since that giant chunk of land is supposed to be part of "Greater Israel", what did Israel do? They gave it all back to Egypt, and then signed a peace treaty with them as well.

Didn't you watch the interview with "Ben Nitay"? I think he put it all out there in the interview and this is exactly what he said. Apparently, his views haven't changed after all these years. No 2 state solution in his mind even then, way back when. So obviously, that's never going to happen. I don't know why everybody's still pretending it will.
What part of the interview are you referring to? Are you sure you're sure about this?

And btw, when land is "occupied" it means you don't have the right to build on it, only to administer it.
Where do you get that from?

So, with all the demolition and building and defiance of UN resolutions, they are colonizing pure and simple and obviously don't give a f*ck what the rest of the world thinks. So this whole shebang is the definition of colonization.
Are you labouring under the impression that every square inch of Palestine that Israel is on is "occupied"? Where do you get that from?

And the high leadership admitting the '67 war was a land grab proves it.
Sure, a land grab. What did they get? The Sinai, which they gave back. The West Bank, which is run by the PLO, and Gaza, which is run by Hamas. And the Golan Heights, which are strategically important and no one in their right mind would give back. Big, HUGE, land grab there.

One last question. If Israel doesn't care what the world thinks, and they own the media and all the banks, and have the most powerful nations on earth in their back pocket, why do they continue this game with the Palestinians? What is stopping them from ridding themselves of this problem and taking all the land, once and for all?
 

Illuminized

Established
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
206
Have you ever read the Hitler psychiatric profiling done by the Allied Forces in 1943? They were pretty accurate with their predictions. http://lawcollections.library.cornell.edu/nuremberg/analysis
A superficial examination/inquiry. I have studied Hitler through the innumerable memoirs of his former associates, without getting too attached this time around.

While I do not condone his actions, I recognize that he is greatly misunderstood, even by his own acclaimed followers. The Alt-Right worship a man they practically know nothing about. The nationalists are only interested in his racial doctrine and are likewise focused on defending him for their own ends.
 

UnderAlienControl

Superstar
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
8,020
You are great at making statements and repeating things that you clearly don't examine.
>This part, I'll remind you of later...

So let's examine the things you're saying. What is stopping them from pushing the rest off?
> I would submit that it is still a work in progress...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Make them so miserable that they will move on to other countries, specifically Jordan I would imagine.
You mean the same Jordan they signed a peace deal with almost 25 years ago? The same Jordan that Israel has let administer the Temple Mount for 50 years? That Jordan? Tell me, do facts ever have any bearing on the things you say?

> One has nothing to do with the other, it's just you twisting a point. This answer will also cover your Benny Nitay question. In the interview he said that the Palestinians already have a homeland and it is Jordan who's population at the time was 60% Palestinian.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
It still hasn't worked after 50 years, but the plan moves onward.

It hasn't worked because it isn't a plan. It only exists in the fevered imaginations of idiots. Everything that Israel has done, despite the wild-eyed prophecies of people like you for a half century (much longer, actually, since we can see that kind of loony antisemitism even back in ancient Egypt), has been for peace. They won the Sinai from Egypt, and since that giant chunk of land is supposed to be part of "Greater Israel", what did Israel do? They gave it all back to Egypt, and then signed a peace treaty with them as well.

> First, like all propagandists, you equate criticism of the israeli government with antisemitism. Keep it going though, as nobody buys it and it just makes anyone who equates the two look even more foolish and domineering. BTW, Israeli's themselves are tired of their leadership. Guess that makes them antisemites too...
Israelis Have Had Enough of Netanyahu, Poll Shows
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.710777

> As for "giving Egypt the Sinai back", Israel took it in the first place. They bombed the Egyptian air force on the ground and destroyed it. Can you say "sneak attack." They in effect started two wars over this move, the '73 war being a "grab land back" war. We've already been over this issue with the top Israeli's admitting the war was about "annexing arab lands".

"Israel’s stunning victory in the Six-Day War of 1967 left the Jewish nation in control of territory four times its previous size."
http://www.history.com/topics/yom-kippur-war

On 14 April 1971, a report in the Israeli newspaper Al-Hamishmar contained the following statement by Mordecai Bentov, a member of the wartime national government. “The entire story of the danger of extermination was invented in every detail and exaggerated a posteriori to justify the annexation of new Arab territory.”

In the spring of 1972, General Matetiyahu Peled, Chief of Logistical Command during the war and one of 12 members of Israel’s General Staff, addressed a political literary club in Tel Aviv. He said: “The thesis according to which the danger of genocide hung over us in June 1967, and according to which Israel was fighting for her very physical survival, was nothing but a bluff which was born and bred after the war.” In a radio debate Peled also said: “Israel was never in real danger and there was no evidence that Egypt had any intention of attacking Israel.” He added that “Israeli intelligence knew that Egypt was not prepared for war.”

...here’s a quote from what Prime Minister Begin said in an unguarded, public moment in 1982. “In June 1967 we had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us, We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Didn't you watch the interview with "Ben Nitay"? I think he put it all out there in the interview and this is exactly what he said. Apparently, his views haven't changed after all these years. No 2 state solution in his mind even then, way back when. So obviously, that's never going to happen. I don't know why everybody's still pretending it will.
What part of the interview are you referring to? Are you sure you're sure about this?

>
2:10 to 3:30-I'm sure. He said it. No 22nd Arab state and no 2nd Palestinian state (Jordan being the first)....

8:35-8:45 - Unless you're Ethiopian...
Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And btw, when land is "occupied" it means you don't have the right to build on it, only to administer it.
Where do you get that from?

> From The Red Cross:
What does the law say about the establishment of settlements in occupied territory?
When a territory is placed under the authority of a hostile army, the rules of international humanitarian law dealing with occupation apply. Occupation confers certain rights and obligations on the occupying power. Prohibited actions include forcibly transferring protected persons from the occupied territories to the territory of the occupying power. It is unlawful under the Fourth Geneva Convention for an occupying power to transfer parts of its own population into the territory it occupies. This means that international humanitarian law prohibits the establishment of settlements, as these are a form of population transfer into occupied territory. Any measure designed to expand or consolidate settlements is also illegal. Confiscation of land to build or expand settlements is similarly prohibited.

> U.N. Resolutions Frequently Violated
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/oct/17/world/fg-resolution17

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, with all the demolition and building and defiance of UN resolutions, they are colonizing pure and simple and obviously don't give a f*ck what the rest of the world thinks. So this whole shebang is the definition of colonization.
Are you labouring under the impression that every square inch of Palestine that Israel is on is "occupied"? Where do you get that from?

> Everything that was kept after '67 is considered "occupied territory"...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the high leadership admitting the '67 war was a land grab proves it.
Sure, a land grab. What did they get? The Sinai, which they gave back. The West Bank, which is run by the PLO, and Gaza, which is run by Hamas. And the Golan Heights, which are strategically important and no one in their right mind would give back. Big, HUGE, land grab there.
> When Anwar el-Sadat (1918-81) became president of Egypt in 1970, he found himself leader of an economically troubled nation that could ill afford to continue its endless crusade against Israel. He wanted to make peace and thereby achieve stability and recovery of the Sinai, but after Israel’s 1967 victory it was unlikely that Israel’s peace terms would be favorable to Egypt. So Sadat conceived of a daring plan to attack Israel again (UAC: Notice how the article says "attack Israel again" even though Israel attacked Egypt in 1967) which, even if unsuccessful, might convince the Israelis that peace with Egypt was necessary...

...After several days, Israel was fully mobilized, and the Israel Defense Forces began beating back the Arab gains at a heavy cost to soldiers and equipment. A U.S. airlift of arms aided Israel’s cause, but President Richard Nixon (1913-94) delayed the emergency military aid for a week as a tacit signal of U.S. sympathy for Egypt.

They didn't voluntarily give back the Sinai, Sadat made it in their best interests to give it back. As for the Golan, the occupying power by law doesn't have the right to "decide not to give it back." "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Aleister Crowley believed that. But hey, if the shoe fits...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last question. If Israel doesn't care what the world thinks, and they own the media and all the banks, and have the most powerful nations on earth in their back pocket,

Careful now. You might get mistaken for a conspiracy theorist...:rolleyes:

why do they continue this game with the Palestinians? What is stopping them from ridding themselves of this problem and taking all the land, once and for all?

I would think it's the sheer number of Palestinians that remain. They got real numbers. How about I dunno...world condemnation? If that did go down, would the other Arab nations jump in? Your question creates more questions. Like I said, it seems to be a work in progress. We'll see how it goes. Let's see how the Middle East gets re-carved up when all the sand settles. I'm pretty sure we will see a call for some "buffer zones" around the country. That's pretty predictable. So for now, that's wait and see but it's what I see...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, here's a question for you: do you think in this day and age of drones, smart weapons, precision guided munitions and highly trained and skilled spec ops that there's any good reason to fire off white phosphorous repeatedly into a population center? No matter who is holed up there. Like, maybe they should find another method and show a little restraint to the madness? I seriously doubt it ever came up. Pretty obvious that it was a punitive measure. It looked like something out of War of the Worlds and the end result was certainly horrific enough. It definitely illustrated a lack of restraint and military heavy handedness, if nothing else.

So it's my conclusion that: You are great at making statements and repeating things that you clearly don't examine. 'Nuff said...;)
 
Last edited:

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
One last question. If Israel doesn't care what the world thinks, and they own the media and all the banks, and have the most powerful nations on earth in their back pocket, why do they continue this game with the Palestinians? What is stopping them from ridding themselves of this problem and taking all the land, once and for all?

First, if I may ask for the second time a question I asked you before but didn't answer
Why are you so pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian? you seem really into it, more even then a right-wing Jewish Israeli citizen would be - it's strange...

You have the best answers and a ton of proof to back it up, everything is so prepaired and neat.

What started you on this path and why you are so drastically one-sided?

If you only want to discuss anti-Palestinian things and not have a normal interaction ,feel free to not respond.

"What is stopping them from ridding themselves of this problem and taking all the land, once and for all?"

Whats
stoping them is the world community, not everybody is in Israel's pocket, and the ones that are in its pocket are there from fear and intimidation so they are not willingly helping Israel, the game has to be played even though it is rigged.

The goal was always "Greater Israel", [ check it online if you don't know what it is ] from the very beginning of the Zionist movement.

We have to behave as if we are moral and are doing everything possible to please an enemy that kills and punishes its own people and does nothing to promote the peace process.
That's why the Hamas is so important to Israel, its the enemy that does exactly what you want and create the perfect ilusion.

The goal is to conquer as much land possible until there is no going back, oppress the rest of the living residents until they go mad, then some sort of mega-terror attack will happen in the end, and it will give the excuse to send all the Palestinians to Walhalla or another country.
 

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
It hasn't worked because it isn't a plan. It only exists in the fevered imaginations of idiots.
The plan worked, the PLAN is not made only to fool the world.
The PLAN is intended to fool the Israeli citizens, the Jewish community around the world, gentile allies that are guarding Israel with their lives - people like you, the Palestinians, and even the Israeli high command even in the Mossad.

You think they are all on it? nooooo way

How many people in ISRAEL know the whole detail of this plan ? maybe 50 to 100 people max.

How many on the Palestinian side ? the same, even less I believe

I cannot dispute you I must confess, you are playing on a field that was constructed to make your side seem right, I can watch you and @UnderAlienControl battle until next year and I still won't be able to decide whos right, and I have first-hand experience in this subject.

Maybe that's your game, confuse everyone until nobody knows was right

And in that case, your side wins, because if you don't lose- then you win - that's the magic game of the Hasbara i believe.

.
 
Last edited:

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
any good reason to fire off-white phosphorous repeatedly into a population center
Punishment and fear,

While I served in the occupied territory we had a procedure ....each night we made patrols near villages and we dropped each time a loud flash bomb to show that we are present.

Each night we dropped between 2--4 grenades very close to a populated village, we weren't the only patrol, so you must imagine how good they slept in those villages.

The main weapon of choice is fear, that why we were ordered to shoot kneecaps, a handicapped is an example of fear to those around him.

Its sick but it is what it is
 
Last edited:

Antipapirus

Established
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
351
So Israel is perpetuating an endless war with the Palestinians? To what end?

It's not endless, it is almost over
The only solution left for these 2 sides is " One Country for both of them combine."

There is no country left to give to the Palestinians, I saw with my own eyes the settlements and their locations on the maps, keep in mind that a ROAD is an Israeli territory ,so 2 Palestine villages that have an Israeli road between them ,are now 2 separate worlds that cannot interact.

The whole region was cut to pieces where the jews can interact freely but the Palestinians have tens of isolated areas that are cleansed slowly but surely.
 
Top