Ideological vacuum in the West

[Bacsi]

It would have been better if Trotsky had prevailed over Stalin, I wonder how an alternative history would have turned out.

Oh man... I don't know about that... Trotsky was a genius who actually made the Oct 2017 Bolshevik revolution, wasn't he. And he was internationalist, or true Marxist. Lenin/Stalin/Mao etc. deviated from the classical - and extremely radical I would say - view of communism... It would have been interesting. If he didn't succeed in his international revolution plans, he would have caused lots of sad destruction, though... Like he wanted to cut up Russia into many states... He didn't care about national sovereignty and at the time of strong national states that could have proved very very dangerous...

 

[Corvus Metus]

I don't understand the fantastically loyal love for capitalism in conspiracy circles... Especially since capitalism is the machine which allows the elites to keep their power.

I could understand disliking Marxist ideologies... But anti-capitalist ideologies don't begin or end with Marx. Many don't even involve the State.

"B-but capitalism helps people!" And it hurts others. The Chinese factory workers that are being exploited by Western companies aren't reaping the benefits of capitalism and it doesn't help people in this country who lose their job to due bosses wanting to maximize profits even if it means hurting their workers...

 

[elsbet]

Communism... has never been established in recorded history...

Not for lack of trying. It's just never worked

Did you read the Cuban health care article?

 

[mecca]

It's ignorant to equate communism to Marx and Engels alone.

There's been much theoretical and practical development after Marx.

And before him. He didn't invent the idea of collective ownership and control... people had those ideas and naturally lived that way for thousands of years before Marx or Engels were even born.

 

[mecca]

Christianity and Marxism are incompatible.

Not really, there are christian marxists... it just depends on the the type of christianity and the type of marxism.

 

[Bacsi]

And before him. He didn't invent the idea of collective ownership and control... people had those ideas and naturally lived that way for thousands of years before Marx or Engels were even born.

Absolutely. I referred to Jesus and the early church commune as an example of communism.

 

[Bacsi]

Not really, there are christian marxists... it just depends on the the type of christianity and the type of marxism.

Not incompatible in the sense that a person can't adhere to both ideologies. People manage to hold all sorts of contradicting ideas. And we know how easily people can cherry-pick ideas out of any ideology to create their personal version. Incompatible in the sense that you can't readily transfer the moral idea of "good" in Christianity to understanding of a "fundamentally good man" in Marxism, just for example. Marxism isn't an all-encompassing philosophical worldview. For a communist, Jesus Christ with his acceptance of feudalistic taxation and obedience to exploitational powers is a bad, bad guy. Anti-communist for sure

 

[elsbet]

I don't understand the fantastically loyal love for capitalism in conspiracy circles... Especially since capitalism is the machine which allows the elites to keep their power.

I could understand disliking Marxist ideologies... But anti-capitalist ideologies don't begin or end with Marx. Many don't even involve the State.

"B-but capitalism helps people!" And it hurts others. The Chinese factory workers that are being exploited by Western companies aren't reaping the benefits of capitalism and it doesn't help people in this country who lose their job to due bosses wanting to maximize profits even if it means hurting their workers...

Regardless of ones opinion on capitalism... the US doesn't have an authentic version of it, imo. Its selective, at best.

 

[Bacsi]

Regardless of ones opinion on capitalism... the US doesn't have an authentic version of it, imo. Its selective, at best.

The USA used to be a textbook example of capitalism. A locomotive of capitalism in the world. For a long time, not anymore. The US, as most of the world, has been hijacked by those with the super $$$ who own the global banks and trans-national corporations. Those out of public eyes.

 

[Bacsi]

Hey guys, I haven't heard yet any responses to my OP... I wasn't talking aboit communism. Heck with it. I'm not proposing it, especially not in the outdated Marxist way.

I have a suspicion that the world rulers might decide to push some forceful distribution of resoucres sort of dictatorship if they establish their power globally.

I'm interested if you agree about the ideological void I see in the West and why this is happening.

 

[Bacsi]

I don't understand the fantastically loyal love for capitalism in conspiracy circles... Especially since capitalism is the machine which allows the elites to keep their power.

I could understand disliking Marxist ideologies... But anti-capitalist ideologies don't begin or end with Marx. Many don't even involve the State.

"B-but capitalism helps people!" And it hurts others. The Chinese factory workers that are being exploited by Western companies aren't reaping the benefits of capitalism and it doesn't help people in this country who lose their job to due bosses wanting to maximize profits even if it means hurting their workers...

Old-school capitalism is dead. Post-capitalist globalist world. National borders don't mean so much with countries being banking or corporate departments and governments their local CEOs so to speak.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Bacsi

Before I address the OP - China a model of a good society!?

Chinese Communists Burn Crosses, Bibles; Force Christians to Sign Papers Renouncing Faith (VIDEO)

Chinese Communist officials have been burning Bibles and forcing Christians to sign papers renouncing their faith, as part of their ongoing crackdown on religion.

ChinaAid President Bob Fu, whose group monitors the persecution of believers in the world's most populous country, shared last week on Twitter a video captured by activists that depicts the burning of Bibles.

"CCP starts burning the Bible and crosses in Henan. Last time burning Bibles campaign happened in late 1960s by dictator Chairman Mao's wife Jiang Qing in Shanghai. She was arrested in 1976 but Christians grew to millions. Will Never be successful," Fu wrote.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On the OP, the West has been gradually becoming post-Christian (and post most anything else) having unquestioningly swallowed the spiritual assault on the truth of the Bible and the discrediting of elevated Christian leaders.

The alternatives people seem to be embracing in the vaccum are Paganism, YOLO (“Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”) and Islam.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Hey guys, I haven't heard yet any responses to my OP... I wasn't talking aboit communism. Heck with it. I'm not proposing it, especially not in the outdated Marxist way.

I have a suspicion that the world rulers might decide to push some forceful distribution of resoucres sort of dictatorship if they establish their power globally.

I'm interested if you agree about the ideological void I see in the West and why this is happening.

There is an emptiness in the world that is truly tragic. Half the planet lives making lives more comfortable for those on the other half or in near squalor, with many struggling to literally survive and in constant danger.

The other half seeks meaning in vacuous materialism and status, with a significant portion of that population, while living better than so many of millions are living substandard.

As to what causes it? Economics and a lack of genuine spirituality.

 

[Thunderian]

As usually, lies upon lies in the West. You guys know so little truth...

Capitalist trade embargo during a year of drought caused the famine in the Ukraine and other parts of the newborn Soviet Union, including my native Kazakhstan. The capitalist sanctions followed a harsh civil war that lasted 5 years, with intervention of Europeand and US armies.

As soon as the communist government, with some fast-acting drastic measures, established prosperity, peace and stability in all of the USSR, there was never ever shortage of food.

Famine was a common occurrence in the Tsarist Russian Empire before communism due to ineffective methods of agriculture and harsh climatic conditions in this vast mostly northern country.

SMT

 

[Bacsi]

SMT

I know...

 

[elsbet]

Hey guys, I haven't heard yet any responses to my OP... I wasn't talking aboit communism. Heck with it. I'm not proposing it, especially not in the outdated Marxist way.

I have a suspicion that the world rulers might decide to push some forceful distribution of resoucres sort of dictatorship if they establish their power globally.

I'm interested if you agree about the ideological void I see in the West and why this is happening.

The west is far from being an 'ideological vacuum.' Its diverse, because it can be, despite the efforts to impose a strict Right / Left ideology on the populace.

It's no better or worse than any other country-- it just has different issues. As you said, human nature is universal. But other parts of the world seem to comfort themselves with this notion, failing to recognize their own, often murderous, shortcomings.

 

[Bacsi]

The west is far from being an 'ideological vacuum.' Its diverse, because it can be, despite the efforts to impose a strict Right / Left ideology on the populace.

It's no better or worse than any other country-- it just has different issues. As you said, human nature is universal. But other parts of the world seem to comfort themselves with this notion, failing to recognize their own, often murderous, shortcomings.

I understand and agree. I'm talking about deeper ideas. Left/right is the props of the theater of politics... I'm talking abouf ideas worth living for. I see the loudest theme, or the strongest vector is survival and pleasures. For most people, it comes down to money. Nothing more. For left of right, Christian or atheist, Republican or Democrat, young or old, north or south etc.

It's a worldwide problem, but in some places where I've been, people do have a spiritual backbone, so to speak. It could be unspoken subconscious archetypical concepts hidden deep in common psychie. Not necessarily in external expression of spirituality. People can even be of little religiousity. It's on a level that doesn't have to be articulated in a language of faith-based philosophy.

It's like people in the West are lost... On the outside they can be very strong on some ideas. Very rarely it's truly what they live for. One in a million.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Very rarely it's truly what they live for. One in a million.

How is it I know so many?!

 

[Bacsi]

How is it I know so many?!

I doubt it, the way I see it. Brother. I don't know if you understand me right.