Human Beings Are The Fallen Angels Who Fought Alongside Lucifer

Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
The bible said we come from Adam and Eve. And humans are not stars in the bible. In the hipotetical case that we are Angels ... Where are ours wings ?
Our "wings" have been clipped as a result of having followed Lucifer's rebellion in heaven.. This explains why we're all "stuck" on the ground here and unable to fly home.

In the other hand, I think there is a different between lucifer and Satan. I am not agree with the translation of the bible in this matter. Satan is a dragon (reptilian).. And Lucifer is a fallen angel.
Satan means the adversary or "Opposer" so that is now Lucifer's title.
 






Ramoncito

Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
56
Jesus said (Matt. 22:30) that the resurrected people, will be like the angels of heaven.

Which means, that they will be angels again; otherwise, it would not be a resurrection, would it.

Resurrected from "death" - from being in the valley of the shadow of death (confined within human limitations; humans, that have to die).

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou [art] with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.

Honestly, I really don't see how anyone can deny this because of what it clearly says and there are also several other verses that could be quoted.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, BEING EVIL,...
It's make some sense your point of view about fallen angels. But ..I don't see a clear relation between Angels and the history of Adam -Eve...

In relation about the differents between lucifer and satan, revelation 20:10 mention 3 differents characters : devil, beast and false prophet. Like a Trinity of evil.
The devil as a dragon / serpent (reptilian).
The false prophet as lucifer (fallen angel) .

Rev 20:10 say "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever"
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,436
I'm respectfully going to disagree on this one. You have other beliefs right but this one is far-fetched. The fallen angels vs the nephilim is probably what you have trouble understanding.

The fallen angels are still among us. The ones who fell from Yahweh's grace and disapproval because they decided it was more important to marry women to satisfy their desires and flat out turn against God, yes those are still here on this earth. Those very same demons that sinned against God are the same ones inflicting pain and suffering.
Genesis 6:2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.
Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels; 8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.


The nephilim were the sons of those demons that took human bodies to procreate with their human wives.
Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.


These nephilim were so wicked and created such a horrible environment, that Yahweh had to cleanse the earth of those wicked half human half demon beings. That is why Yahweh brought the deluge or great flood. The Nephilim are LONG GONE.
Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth

Genesis 7:12, 13 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Since the demons are still roaming the earth we are urged to take measures:
Ephesians 6:11, Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places .
Thanks for what you've shared.

Something that is often overlooked is that we are given accounts of two distinct groups of fallen angels in Scripture.

The first group was cast out to the Earth WITH Lucifer/Satan/the devil, while the second group, described as "the watchers" (because they were assigned to watch over the first group) fell later.

The first group:

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (us - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

The second group:

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also AFTER that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

So men (humans) were already here when the Watchers (sons of God assigned to watch over Satan and his angels) came down from heaven to be with the daughters of men.

Of course this is all explained in great detail in the Book of Enoch, which is part of the reason the Roman Catholic church wrongly removed it. Enoch was the first prophet of God, the only one to ever be translated after walking WITH God, and Enoch is also referenced elsewhere in Scripture.
 






elsbet

Star
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
4,470
Jesus said (Matt. 22:30) that the resurrected people, will be like the angels of heaven.

Which means, that they will be angels again...
Nowhere does the bible say we were angels, in the first place-- so we cannot be angels 'again.'

As the quote says... "people will be LIKE the angels." Not '.. people will *be* angels.'

Genesis is clear--

Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being. GENESIS 2:7
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,436
Nowhere does the bible say we were angels, in the first place-- so we cannot be angels 'again.'

As the quote says... "people will be LIKE the angels." Not '.. people will *be* angels.'

Genesis is clear--

Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being. GENESIS 2:7
What do you think a "Soul" is? A piece of luggage we drag around for a human lifetime, before checking it in as baggage at the spiritual airport when the human checks out/punches their ticket?

Why would anyone want to go to heaven if it wasn't our home?

You quote the exact verse where Father places a spirit-Being/angel inside a human body, making it a human+Being, and don't even blink an eye or think about what it means!

We are told in Revelation that we ARE the angels who fought with Satan against God in heaven.

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (us - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Lucifer/Satan/Iblis/the devil/dragon/serpent and his angels were cast out of heaven for their treason TO THE EARTH.

This coup attempt by Lucifer/Satan is well-documented in Isa. 14:12-17, and also in the Koran (Sura 7:11-18, Sura 17:61-65), which goes into detail describing how Lucifer/Satan's angels were placed into human bodies. Where do you think Lucifer/Satan's angels went? Lucifer/Satan's angels were a third of the angels of heaven (Rev. 12:3-4).

If you think they are running around here on Earth as demons, then take a good, hard look at the things we do to each other in these human bodies. One would be hard-pressed not to think of all of us as evil based on the ever increasing amount of evil there is in this world - a place where women and children are raped and molested, people are constantly lying, cheating and stealing from each other, adultery, homosexuality and sexual deviants are now encouraged and protected, and murder has been "legalized" in the form of endless wars waged against imaginary foes. No wonder Christ told us we ARE evil spirits/angels (Matt. 7:11, Luke 9:55). And no wonder David rightly referred to this prison-planet reform school as HELL.

The very same story is told in Genesis, about us being separated from the rest of the angels of heaven, so we can taught how to be good (rehabilitated).

Genesis 1:6-8
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the "waters", and let it divide the "waters" from the "waters".
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the Second Day.

How are the "waters" defined in Scripture?

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The "waters" which thou sawest, where the "Whore" sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

With the "waters" defined as the people, and the firmament defined as Heaven, here is how Genesis 1:6-8 reads DECODED.

Genesis 1:6-8
1:6 And God said, Let there be Heaven in the midst of the people, and let it divide the people from the people (Luke 16:26).
1:7 And God made Heaven, and divided the people which [were] under Heaven (the third of the angels banished to the Earth) from the people which [were] above Heaven (the two-thirds who fought with Michael against Lucifer/Satan): and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the Second Day.

We are ALL sinners. A sinner is someone who breaks The Law (1 John 3:4). People who break The Law are CRIMINALS. Committing crimes against one another is EVIL. Continuing to be habitual, unrepentant criminals, considering we are all on death row for our crimes, is insane.

Of course this is hard for lunatics--who have spent many lifetimes building up their egos to the point they actually think they are "good" people, as if God would actually keep good people here in hell--to accept who we are and why we are here. But that doesn't change the FACT that we are the angels who fought with Lucifer/Satan against Prince Michael (Christ) and His Angels in the war.

We wouldn't be here in hell otherwise. We would still be in Heaven. Have you never wondered why God even bothered with the Earth at all, and with making humans, if the ultimate destination for the ones who learn to behave properly was Heaven anyway?
 






Last edited:

Ramoncito

Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
56
What do you think a "Soul" is? A piece of luggage we drag around for a human lifetime, before checking it in as baggage at the spiritual airport when the human checks out/punches their ticket?

Why would anyone want to go to heaven if it wasn't our home?

You quote the exact verse where Father places a spirit-Being/angel inside a human body, making it a human+Being, and don't even blink an eye or think about what it means!

We are told in Revelation that we ARE the angels who fought with Satan against God in heaven.

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (us - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Lucifer/Satan/Iblis/the devil/dragon/serpent and his angels were cast out of heaven for their treason TO THE EARTH.

This coup attempt by Lucifer/Satan is well-documented in Isa. 14:12-17, and also in the Qur'an (Sura 7:11-18, Sura 17:61-65), which goes into detail describing how Lucifer/Satan's angels were placed into human bodies. Where do you think Lucifer/Satan's angels went? Lucifer/Satan's angels were a third of the angels of heaven (Rev. 12:3-4).

If you think they are running around here on Earth as demons, then take a good, hard look at the things we do to each other in these human bodies. One would be hard-pressed not to think of all of us as evil based on the ever increasing amount of evil there is in this world - a place where women and children are raped and molested, people are constantly lying, cheating and stealing from each other, adultery, homosexuality and sexual deviants are now encouraged and protected, and murder has been "legalized" in the form of endless wars waged against imaginary foes. No wonder Christ told us we ARE evil spirits/angels (Matt. 7:11, Luke 9:55). And no wonder David rightly referred to this prison-planet reform school as HELL.

The very same story is told in Genesis, about us being separated from the rest of the angels of heaven, so we can taught how to be good (rehabilitated).

Genesis 1:6-8
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the "waters", and let it divide the "waters" from the "waters".
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the Second Day.

How are the "waters" defined in Scripture?

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The "waters" which thou sawest, where the "Whore" sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

With the "waters" defined as the people, and the firmament defined as Heaven, here is how Genesis 1:6-8 reads DECODED.

Genesis 1:6-8
1:6 And God said, Let there be Heaven in the midst of the people, and let it divide the people from the people (Luke 16:26).
1:7 And God made Heaven, and divided the people which [were] under Heaven (the third of the angels banished to the Earth) from the people which [were] above Heaven (the two-thirds who fought with Michael against Lucifer/Satan): and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the Second Day.

We are ALL sinners. A sinner is someone who breaks The Law (1 John 3:4). People who break The Law are CRIMINALS. Committing crimes against one another is EVIL. Continuing to be habitual, unrepentant criminals, considering we are all on death row for our crimes, is insane.

Of course this is hard for lunatics--who have spent many lifetimes building up their egos to the point they actually think they are "good" people, as if God would actually keep good people here in hell--to accept who we are and why we are here. But that doesn't change the FACT that we are the angels who fought with Lucifer/Satan against Prince Michael (Christ) and His Angels in the war.

We wouldn't be here in hell otherwise. We would still be in Heaven. Have you never wondered why God even bothered with the Earth at all, and with making humans, if the ultimate destination for the ones who learn to behave properly was Heaven anyway?
I think your point of view is a litle negative. There is good people, bad people and some humans are in the gray area.

Maybe, this fallen Angels took somes human bodies...but not all bodies. There is good people in this world.

And maybe they are 2 types of angels... Complently differents, one group of angels belongs to god. And the other group could be reptilian angels..and belongs to the evil.

The bible, quran, torah , etc are not really clear and we can make a lot of interpretations. Even , we don't know what is real or fake in those
books. After all, we are the ones who decide what to believe or not.
 






Last edited:
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
TWHOFTF
CHAPTER 4
The first test and regression to following Satan.
4:1 Once the prison, and the human-animals, had been designed and created, and the souls locked-
inside, God started the teaching and testing process.
4:2 The first and very simple test, was in the Garden of Eden, when the devil tempted Eve (woman),
with the apple. The devil told Eve, that, if she ate the apple, she would become like God (another lie)
(Genesis 3:5).
4:3 Being closer to the devil, than Adam (man); on a spiritual level, and having less will-power (the
will is the eye of the soul), and therefore more easily used by the devil; she gave-in to temptation,
disobeyed God and ate the apple. Satan tempted Eve first; instead of tempting Adam; because he knew
that she would be more likely to give-in, than Adam. Eve, having failed her own test, was not content
with that, she had to get Adam into trouble, too.
4:4 The will is the eye of the soul, because the more will-power a soul has, to resist temptation, the
nearer it is, to going home. The Lord measures a soul, by its power to resist temptation from Satan,
and by the good it does for others.
4:5 The serpent, that tempted Eve, was Satan (Rev. 12:9), who; having tricked Eve, causing her to fail
her test; then manipulated her and used her to attack Adam (Matt. 10:36), using her sex-appeal. Adam
then also failed his first test, because he foolishly loved Eve more than God (Matt. 10:37), and doing
good, and followed her advice (the Devil’s really), instead of God’s advice.
4:6 The simple story; of Adam (man) and Eve (woman), and the trees of the “Knowledge of Good”
(God) and the “Knowledge of Evil” (d/evil); seems never to have been understood, by anyone on
Earth, and yet it is very straight-forward, and easy to understand.
4:7 God walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and talked with them, teaching them to eat
(digest) the “Knowledge of Good” (His truth), and warned them not to eat from the “Tree of the
Knowledge of Evil” (Satan’s lies), or they would die.
4:8 They already had access, to the fruit of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good”, and were eating it,
and, if they ate from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil”, they would then know that there was good,
and evil, and become confused. In their confusion, they would never find their way home, and would
die.
4:9 If they obeyed God, there would be no confusion, or conflict, in their minds, and they would learn
only good, from God - the Tree (or source) of the Knowledge of Good (TRUTH), quickly and easily,
and live forever. As they learned from God’s teachings, they would become more and more like Him,
until, once they became enough like Him (like Jesus’ example), they would be pardoned and then
released from this planet (Earth), and allowed to go home, back to their real homes and families, out in
the Universe, and LIVE forever.
4:10 God was telling them: “In the day that you listen to that liar again, instead of to Me - eat from the
Tree (source) of the Knowledge of Evil (lies) - you will die (Gen. 2:17 & Deut. 30:15).”
4:11 The serpent (Satan the liar/devil) told Eve that God was lying to her, and that if she believed
him, instead of God, she would be like God, which, of course, coming from the liar (devil), was a
LIE.
4:12 Eve believed the liar (devil), instead of God, and convinced Adam to believe the liar too,
repeating, for a second time, the “original sin” that had caused the war, and, from that day; EXACTLY
as God (the TRUTH/WORD - John 1:1-5) told them; people have been dying ever since. So God told
you the TRUTH, as He always does, and Satan deceived you all, yet again (Rev. 12:9), as he still does
today.
4:13 So the war, that Lucifer started in heaven, with his slanderous lies, has continued, in a war between
good (God) and evil (devil), here on Earth, ever since, killing billions of human bodies.
4:14 By believing the liar/devil, instead of God, Adam (man) and Eve (woman) were calling God a
liar/devil, and the liar/devil God. God says: “Woe to those who call good (God), evil (devil) and evil,
good”.
4:15 Thus began the confusion and chaos, in people’s minds, that has continued ever since - the
conflict and not knowing what is good/truth, and what is evil/lies (only that they both exist) and the
ongoing insanity.
4:16 INSANITY is:- choosing to believe that a lie is true, and that the truth is a lie.
4:17 The ONLY way to LIVE, is to STOP listening to the liar/devil, and believe ONLY GOD, as
Abraham did, and thereby, became the “Friend of God” (2nd. Chronicles 20:7 & Isaiah 41:8)(James
2:23).
4:18 Jesus’ true teachings are designed to “Reverse the Fall of Man”, by being “Born again as your
spirit (Being - John 3:5-6)” – your real self; keeping the COMMANDments; DOING God’s Will
(learning directly from God how to be perfect - like God, in His eyes, not man’s eyes). Jesus (the
WORD/TRUTH made flesh - JOHN 1:1-5) is also known as the “Second Adam” - to reverse “The
Fall”, caused by the first Adam believing Satan.
4:19 In the Garden of Eden there was no work, only learning: everything else was provided by God.
 






Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
TWHOFTF
CHAPTER 4
The first test and regression to following Satan.
4:1 Once the prison, and the human-animals, had been designed and created, and the souls locked-
inside, God started the teaching and testing process.
4:2 The first and very simple test, was in the Garden of Eden, when the devil tempted Eve (woman),
with the apple. The devil told Eve, that, if she ate the apple, she would become like God (another lie)
(Genesis 3:5).
4:3 Being closer to the devil, than Adam (man); on a spiritual level, and having less will-power (the
will is the eye of the soul), and therefore more easily used by the devil; she gave-in to temptation,
disobeyed God and ate the apple. Satan tempted Eve first; instead of tempting Adam; because he knew
that she would be more likely to give-in, than Adam. Eve, having failed her own test, was not content
with that, she had to get Adam into trouble, too.
4:4 The will is the eye of the soul, because the more will-power a soul has, to resist temptation, the
nearer it is, to going home. The Lord measures a soul, by its power to resist temptation from Satan,
and by the good it does for others.
4:5 The serpent, that tempted Eve, was Satan (Rev. 12:9), who; having tricked Eve, causing her to fail
her test; then manipulated her and used her to attack Adam (Matt. 10:36), using her sex-appeal. Adam
then also failed his first test, because he foolishly loved Eve more than God (Matt. 10:37), and doing
good, and followed her advice (the Devil’s really), instead of God’s advice.
Where does the bible say that Eve was on a lower spiritual level than Adam? Or that she used her "sex appeal" to attack her husband or that she purposefully involved Adam or that either of them knew it was a test? The bible says that she was deceived but Adam was not -he sinned willfully having been the one God gave the instruction to. The bible also doesn't say she had to force or otherwise coerce him into doing anything. So much projection.
 






Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
Hi Robin,
Hope this finds you well and having a good day.
Where does the bible say that Eve was on a lower spiritual level than Adam?
Eve (woman) is called the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7). And if we honestly look at the two roles and how God has assigned them, I think it becomes self-evident to anyone who is willing to be unbiased. Look for instance at the jobs that we men typically have compared to women. Who are typically the firefighters, like the first responders who go in to help with a disaster? Who is it that goes out to battle, knowingly risking life and limb, to face an enemy. You may not always realise it, but it's for you that men naturally go and do these things, so that you won't have to. It's natural and instinctive for men to assume these types of roles in a society, while it's not very typical for a woman. Men are the ones who take on most of the dangerous jobs by far and are most often the ones who end up getting killed too while doing them, so that you (as women, as well as the children) don't have to. It's much harder to be a man in society than it is to be a woman.
Or that she used her "sex appeal" to attack her husband or that she purposefully involved Adam or that either of them knew it was a test?
Look at dysfunctional society, and you cannot help but see it. How many Eves (women) do you see (especially being shown in the media) using their sex-appeal as the means to get what they want? Why? Because they can, and because men allow it. "Women have it, men want it, and people are making billions in between". Who taught women to do it? Satan taught it to Eve and then Eve decided to use it.
The bible says that she was deceived but Adam was not -he sinned willfully having been the one God gave the instruction to. The bible also doesn't say she had to force or otherwise coerce him into doing anything. So much projection.
Thank you. God having given the instruction to Adam reinforces and proves the first point. Which kid do you give the instruction to, if there are two of them? Logically, you will give it to the one who is on the higher level, of the two, (usually the oldest - using the example of children). Both need to obey the instructions together though, if they are going to succeed in avoiding the danger. God gave the instruction to Adam, but it was crucial that both Adam and Eve needed to choose to obey it, together, as a collective unit or team.

The tempting idea, of one wanting to be able to pass and shift all of the blame over onto the other is not only silly, it is also futile. Both disobeyed, so both have the responsibility to learn from it, stop disobeying and start obeying the instructions.

"This is designed, so that the two sexes can help each other, on the upward climb."
 






Last edited:

Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
Eve (woman) is called the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7).
And how exactly would you define weaker? Physically? Spiritually? This is not proof of a gendered spiritual hierarchy.

And if we honestly look at the two roles and how God has assigned them, I think it becomes self-evident to anyone who is willing to be unbiased.
The designed roles of the sexes were meant to be complementary. By definition, one set is not superior or inferior to the other unless you use the arbitrary historical view that brute strength and physical superiority is the superior trait. Were this the case, Adam would not have needed a helper and would've been perfectly capable of handling all the work by himself.

It's much harder to be a man in society than it is to be a women.
That largely depends on the society. A bigger world exists outside of the west and most of it is far more amicable to men than women.

Look at dysfunctional society, and you cannot help but see it. How many Eves (women) do you see (especially being shown in the media) using their sex-appeal to be able to get what they want? Why? Because they can and because men allow it. "Women have it, men want it, and people are making billions in between". Who taught women to do it? Satan taught it to Eve and then Eve decided to use it.
You absolve all men of responsibility as though they are nothing more than hormone-driven cavemen. There's a dual responsibility in women exchanging sex for power. Industries are built on that. What does that say about men being easy to lead astray because of the CARNAL? Would the higher spiritual being not be more resistant to matters of the flesh? Better yet, look at male-exclusive communities. Mainstream gay male culture is disproportionately more promiscuous and sex-oriented than its lesbian or hetero counterparts. Funny thing? No female involved.

Thank you. God having given the instruction to Adam is what reinforces and proves the first point. Which kid do you give the instruction to, if there are two of them? Logically, you will give it to the one who is on the higher level, of the two, (usually the oldest - using the example of children). God gave the instruction to Adam, but it was for them both, as a collective unit. The tempting idea, of one wanting to be able to pass and shift all of the blame over onto the other is not only silly, it is also futile.
You seem to confuse social structure and order with spiritual value. Adam and Eve were initially BOTH given dominion in the garden -Eve's submission to Adam came after the Fall as a punishment. Establishing structure has again nothing to do with SPIRITUAL capability -that is again your inference. Eve fell to guile, Adam did not. He was responsible for throwing the snake out of the garden and reprimanding his wife and instead he did neither. Eve was responsible for listening to the snake in the first place.

Both disobeyed, so both have the responsibility to learn from it, stop disobeying start obeying the instructions.

"This is designed, so that the two sexes can help each other, on the upward climb."
Exactly. So why do you construe it as though Eve planned to drag Adam down because she acknowledged she'd failed the test? Or that she was somehow lesser spiritually when she fell to guile while Adam, having been the first to fellowship with God and receiving from Him in person the instruction, sinned knowingly?
 






Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
You absolve all men of responsibility as though they are nothing more than hormone-driven cavemen. There's a dual responsibility in women exchanging sex for power. Industries are built on that. What does that say about men being easy to lead astray because of the CARNAL? Would the higher spiritual being not be more resistant to matters of the flesh?
Whose side are you on?
Eve fell to guile, Adam did not. He was responsible for throwing the snake out of the garden and reprimanding his wife and instead he did neither. Eve was responsible for NOT listening to the snake in the first place.
Exactly. So why do you construe it as though Eve planned to drag Adam down because she acknowledged she'd failed the test? Or that she was somehow lesser spiritually when she fell to guile while Adam, having been the first to fellowship with God and receiving from Him in person the instruction, sinned knowingly?
What do you do when you fail a test? Do you admit it, or do you want someone else to be in trouble with you.
 






Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
Whose side are you on?
The side that doesn't use scissors on the bible. If you can't see that there is a mutual blame to be had then it's very clear that YOU are the one with the bias and that you are the one relinquishing men of responsibility for their role in the pandemic of lust. Any commentary on what I actually said here though? Why are men so easily taken by the carnal (amplified in an environment without female influence where the focus of said carnality is another MAN) if they are spiritually superior and on a higher spiritual level?

What do you do when you fail a test? Do you admit it, or do you want someone else to be in trouble with you.
Its not about what you or I would've done, it's about what Eve did. Did either of them even know they were being "tested"? There's no break between Eve eating the fruit and her offering it to Adam that allows us insight into her intent. So where do you get that from?
 






Last edited:
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
The side that doesn't use scissors on the bible. If you can't see that there is a mutual blame to be had then it's very clear that YOU are the one with the bias and that you are the one relinquishing men of responsibility for their role on the pandemic of lust. Any commentary on what I actually said here though? Why are men so easily taken by the carnal (amplified in an environment without female influence where the focus of said carnality is another MAN) if they are spiritually superior and on a higher spiritual level?


Its not about what YOU or I would've done, it's about what Eve did. Did either of them even know they were being "tested"? There's no break between Eve eating the fruit and her offering it to Adam that allows us insight into her intent. So where do you get that from?
The best test, is what happens to you when you don't know you're being tested.

Its not about what YOU or I would've done, it's about what Eve did.
There's your answer, Robin.

As far as the discussion about the abomination of sodomy, I'll pass.

Leviticus
18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the "I AM".
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [homosexuality] [is] abomination.

Deuteronomy
23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite (homosexual) of the sons of Israel (Leviticus 20:13:- If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [the blame][shall be] upon them).
 






Last edited:

Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
The best test, is what happens to you when you don't know you're being tested.

As far as the discussion about the abomination of sodomy, I'll pass.

Leviticus
18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the "I AM".
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [homosexuality] [is] abomination.

Deuteronomy
23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite (homosexual) of the sons of Israel (Leviticus 20:13:- If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [the blame][shall be] upon them).
So you admit they didn't know they were being tested. So why did you say that Eve wanted to get Adam into trouble with her for failing it? And I wasn't asking to discuss sodomy, just the interesting observation that when parted from women in this scenario, men seem to devolve into higher levels of carnality. I'm just really interested in knowing why that is if men are the higher spiritual beings? Are spirituality and carnality not locked in an antagonistic relationship? But it doesn't have to be about homosexuality if that makes you uncomfortable . . . . What about pornography -who forms the overwhelming majority of traffic? Prostitution client bases? Fetish communities? These tend to consist mostly of straight men.
 






Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
So you admit they didn't know they were being tested. So why did you say that Eve wanted to get Adam into trouble with her for failing it? And I wasn't asking to discuss sodomy, just the interesting observation that when parted from women in this scenario, men seem to devolve into higher levels of carnality. I'm just really interested in knowinwhy that is if men are the higher spiritual beings? But it doesn't have to be about homosexuality if that makes you uncomfortable . . . . What about pornography -who forms the overwhelming majority of traffic? Prostitution? Fetish communities? These include men of all sexual orientations.
You typically only realise that you were being tested, once you either pass it, or fail it.
 






Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
You typically only realise that you were being tested, once you either pass it, or fail it.
Between Eve failing and Adam eating the fruit next, is there any biblical inference to assume this? Because if I recall correctly, their eyes opened simultaneously to realise their nakedness, which seems like the point at which they realised their failing.

Also, why are you refusing to answer my questions? If you expect people to engage with you and if you want me, as a woman, to look to you as my spiritual superior, then surely you have to be able to answer the questions I ask?
 






Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,053
Between Eve failing and Adam eating the fruit next, is there any biblical inference to assume this? Because if I recall correctly, their eyes opened simultaneously to realise their nakedness, which seems like the point at which they realised their failing.

Also, why are you refusing to answer my questions? If you expect people to engage with you and if you want me, as a woman, to look to you as my spiritual superior, then surely you have to be able to answer the questions I ask?
Everything you mentioned comes down to people no longer having respect for one another, or for themselves. If we truly are loving our neighbour, then we would also wish to treat them with the same respect as you would perhaps respect people within your own family. The world has become a mess, with lack of respect between people everywhere.
 






Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
Everything you mentioned comes down to people no longer having respect for one another, or for themselves. If we truly are loving our neighbour, then we would also wish to treat them with the same respect as you would perhaps respect people within your own family. The world has become a mess, with lack of respect between people everywhere.
What you said is true on its own but it doesn't really have much to do with what I was asking, no offence. I remember reading in one of your (or one your friends') posts that women are more carnal than men, that they do not love the way men do in terms of a selfless spiritual overcoming a selfish physical . . . Which is observably wrong in the real world most of the time. And that's been the case throughout history. So what's your answer to that?
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,436
The side that doesn't use scissors on the bible. If you can't see that there is a mutual blame to be had then it's very clear that YOU are the one with the bias and that you are the one relinquishing men of responsibility for their role in the pandemic of lust. Any commentary on what I actually said here though? Why are men so easily taken by the carnal (amplified in an environment without female influence where the focus of said carnality is another MAN) if they are spiritually superior and on a higher spiritual level?
Genesis 3:13 And the "I AM" God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:16-17
3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be subject] to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE.
3:17 And unto Adam He said, BECAUSE THOU HAST HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF THY WIFE, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I COMMANDED thee, saying, Thou shalt NOT eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life (Eno. 96:12-13);

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN [IS] THE MAN; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
2:11 Let the woman learn in SILENCE with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to USURP authority over the man, but TO BE IN SILENCE.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

It looks like it's you Robin, who are using "scissors on the Bible", cutting out the parts you don't like, and hope to ignore, so you can continue believing the serpent, just as Eve did.

Every single "women's libber", i.e. the spirit-Being that is TEMPORARILY inside a female body who thinks she is human and spiritually equal to a man, is going to burn, just as every spirit-Being inside of an emasculated male body (Deut. 23:1) is going to burn.

The ROLES of the genders was to encourage us to work together as ONE, with those in male bodies drawing those in female bodies closer to God, instead of those in female bodies drawing those in male bodies closer to Satan. And the only way for that to work is for women to stop trying to usurp the authority of men who are striving to be Christ-like, as they should be, and start working WITH them to establish God's Kingdom here on Earth.

It should be self-evident that it is Satan (the Opposer) that has those in female bodies arguing against Godliness and the natural order of things according to our Creator, when those who are sharing this TRUTH are doing so out of love and concern for the very Souls (spirit-Beings) inside of female bodies who are arguing and fighting against them and against God.

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

A nice article explaining why we should be focused on our true, spiritual selves rather than our the temporary physical habitation, which would put an end to this satanic "battle of the sexes" nonsense:

 






Robin

Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
583
Genesis 3:13 And the "I AM" God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:16-17
3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be subject] to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE.
3:17 And unto Adam He said, BECAUSE THOU HAST HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF THY WIFE, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I COMMANDED thee, saying, Thou shalt NOT eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life (Eno. 96:12-13);

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN [IS] THE MAN; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
2:11 Let the woman learn in SILENCE with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to USURP authority over the man, but TO BE IN SILENCE.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

It looks like it's you Robin, who are using "scissors on the Bible", cutting out the parts you don't like, and hope to ignore, so you can continue believing the serpent, just as Eve did.

Every single "women's libber", i.e. the spirit-Being that is TEMPORARILY inside a female body who thinks she is human and spiritually equal to a man, is going to burn, just as every spirit-Being inside of an emasculated male body (Deut. 23:1) is going to burn.

The ROLES of the genders was to encourage us to work together as ONE, with those in male bodies drawing those in female bodies closer to God, instead of those in female bodies drawing those in male bodies closer to Satan. And the only way for that to work is for women to stop trying to usurp the authority of men who are striving to be Christ-like, as they should be, and start working WITH them to establish God's Kingdom here on Earth.

It should be self-evident that it is Satan (the Opposer) that has those in female bodies arguing against Godliness and the natural order of things according to our Creator, when those who are sharing this TRUTH are doing so out of love and concern for the very Souls (spirit-Beings) inside of female bodies who are arguing and fighting against them and against God.

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

A nice article explaining why we should be focused on our true, spiritual selves rather than our the temporary physical habitation, which would put an end to this satanic "battle of the sexes" nonsense:

You people run away from arguments you cannot answer. Its not about women's lib -its about the fact that your entire concept of gendered spirituality is unbiblical and boarders on incel-like mentality. If your doctrine is correct, answer me this: why would God allow a female judge and prophet even during the heavily patriarchal period of Israel (Deborah)? Why were women the first ones to witness Christ's resurrection? And if you're not a coward, answer why men when separated from women devolve into greater levels of carnal depravity if they're spiritually higher? Why if men are supposed to lead women toward God and women lead men toward satan, are men far more easily manipulated by matters of the flesh WITH or WITHOUT a female influence (worse so without evidently)? Is that not closer proximity to the carnal?

That's all -don't run away, don't deflect.

Prove that your beliefs have merit by looking at how the world actually works and how female and male nature manifests itself in reality.

And the same Paul that you love to quote out of context also says

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

He also mentions several women who helped in the early church -in the closing chapter of his letter to the Romans Paul mentions no less than ten women, and Phoebe heads the list. Paul refers to Phoebe as “our sister”, a servant of the church and asks the Roman Christians to welcome her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints and to give her whatever assistance she may need. He also tells the Romans that Phoebe is a benefactor of many people, including himself. (Rom 16:1-2) This sound like a man who believed she was on a lower spiritual level?
 






Last edited:
Top