How to divest from the system

justjess

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There are many people from many different ideologies who believe the system is corrupt and want to change it or destroy it. They have different reasons but the underlying feeling and desire is the same. The system has existed for as long as people have existed. We are not going to change it. Not by voting at least. We are not going to destroy it. Atleast not by physically fighting it. We have guns, they have tanks. So what then? Divest and boycott. Enough people divest and boycott and the system destroys itself.

maybe we would be more productive if we brainstormed ideas on how to do so, what would be most productive, and how to sustain in the interim.

I thought for a brief moment at the start of the corona virus when the lockdowns were just starting and the Democrat primaries were in their beginning stages that we may have a brief chance of uniting enough to seize the system back from within. I was delusional because it was never actually in the cards.
The system was soo smart they found a way to pit us against eachother at a level never seen before instead.)The same way trump supporters and q adherents are delusioned on their end. We are all guilty of being lulled to sleep, humans avoid change generally because it is uncomfortable and biology dictates homeostasis so we grasp at any slim chance that we can get the things we need without having to lose that comfort. I will repeat this is a delusion. One we have all fell for.

there have been groups of people disenfranchised and blackballed from the system since the beginning of time. They have always managed to survive to some extent through alternative systems they developed themselves. So how have they done it, what can we learn from them, what options do we have, and how do we go about doing it ourselves?

Probably no one will comment on this or If they do it will be nasty and negative. But whatever, in the end atleast I planted the seed.
 






Aero

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Activists need a way to gain mass support without that support being reactionary. It needs to be "cool" or at least less shocking.

Take BLM, for example. Support for that cause was mostly reactionary, and it was a pretty big one as far as reactions go. So what really changed? Now, sure there are tons of new police accountability laws. I'm not saying that isn't good or anything, but police accountability laws are what we had before.

I seem to remember supporting BLM because the laws we have didn't work. Either way, that's not the point. The point is our reactions don't reach far enough. And on a day to day basis, most people are too careful not to step on anybody's toes. It's not that people are "scared" per se. It seems more like nobody wants to make themselves the odd one out.

Perhaps the true question is how to divest from the internal system that holds us back. Because if we cannot solve the problem internally, we will never solve it externally.
 






justjess

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Never going to gain the type Of mass support that would actually be necessary. There are too many players way to invested to ever allow that to happen. Any time something even shows potential they throw some dramatic division type shit in the mix and as a people we fall for it every time. I’ve been running this over and over in my head for years... only option as far as I can tell is to “check out”
 






justjess

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The system is crumbling on its own while we do nothing but watch... just wait it out. It’s been locked into a self-destruct pattern for a while now, despite how it seems.
Oh I’m watching... the dying actions of an empire desperately clinging to life. In the interim how many of us will be taken down by it? I’m only hoping to encourage people to divest from it as much as they can rather then wait until it’s too late and be swallowed whole in the collapse.
 






DavidSon

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There are many people from many different ideologies who believe the system is corrupt and want to change it or destroy it. They have different reasons but the underlying feeling and desire is the same. The system has existed for as long as people have existed. We are not going to change it. Not by voting at least. We are not going to destroy it. Atleast not by physically fighting it. We have guns, they have tanks. So what then? Divest and boycott. Enough people divest and boycott and the system destroys itself.

maybe we would be more productive if we brainstormed ideas on how to do so, what would be most productive, and how to sustain in the interim.

I thought for a brief moment at the start of the corona virus when the lockdowns were just starting and the Democrat primaries were in their beginning stages that we may have a brief chance of uniting enough to seize the system back from within. I was delusional because it was never actually in the cards.
The system was soo smart they found a way to pit us against eachother at a level never seen before instead.)The same way trump supporters and q adherents are delusioned on their end. We are all guilty of being lulled to sleep, humans avoid change generally because it is uncomfortable and biology dictates homeostasis so we grasp at any slim chance that we can get the things we need without having to lose that comfort. I will repeat this is a delusion. One we have all fell for.

there have been groups of people disenfranchised and blackballed from the system since the beginning of time. They have always managed to survive to some extent through alternative systems they developed themselves. So how have they done it, what can we learn from them, what options do we have, and how do we go about doing it ourselves?

Probably no one will comment on this or If they do it will be nasty and negative. But whatever, in the end atleast I planted the seed.
Great topic!

I've heard similar ideas recently from content creators saying we want to do more than just talk. Different topics tend to veer toward idealism, reasoning on the failings of history or the way society "should" be. We can have a balance between the concept of waking the masses versus what we must do on a personal level to progress.

There's power in numbers. Like minded people can work together to achieve more than an individual ever could. Unity can be cultivated anywhere but a great place to start is in our local areas. Maybe you have a situation that is positive and sustainable which could be shared with others... a farm nearby who you could purchase from directly, etc. I keep returning to the notion of intentional communities- groups sharing housing, land, business, resources, etc. This website is a loose network of members but shows possible directions to search out (such as public banking):
https://www.ic.org/directory/

A conference this month addressing counter-economics, decentralization, organizing, etc.:
https://www.greaterreset.net/

On the political front there's also hope depending on how you look at things. We can still speak out. As generations shift I think about the possibility of new parties. Improbable but my vision is of a populist movement made of conservatives and leftists united on primarily economic issues. Here in the US, for Bernie supporters there is new party that has potential IMO. If they can make themselves more relevant that the Greens, get the right figures to lead, they might have something:
https://peoplesparty.org/
 






justjess

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Great topic!

I've heard similar ideas recently from content creators saying we want to do more than just talk. Different topics tend to veer toward idealism, reasoning on the failings of history or the way society "should" be. We can have a balance between the concept of waking the masses versus what we must do on a personal level to progress.

There's power in numbers. Like minded people can work together to achieve more than an individual ever could. Unity can be cultivated anywhere but a great place to start is in our local areas. Maybe you have a situation that is positive and sustainable which could be shared with others... a farm nearby who you could purchase from directly, etc. I keep returning to the notion of intentional communities- groups sharing housing, land, business, resources, etc. This website is a loose network of members but shows possible directions to search out (such as public banking):
https://www.ic.org/directory/

A conference this month addressing counter-economics, decentralization, organizing, etc.:
https://www.greaterreset.net/

On the political front there's also hope depending on how you look at things. We can still speak out. As generations shift I think about the possibility of new parties. Improbable but my vision is of a populist movement made of conservatives and leftists united on primarily economic issues. Here in the US, for Bernie supporters there is new party that has potential IMO. If they can make themselves more relevant that the Greens, get the right figures to lead, they might have something:
https://peoplesparty.org/
I’m going to respond to you and post more in this thread tomorrow.. I posted it spontaneously without really knowing what I wanted to say or how I want to say it and I think it’s a topic worthy of considered thought.
 






Maes17

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Oh I’m watching... the dying actions of an empire desperately clinging to life. In the interim how many of us will be taken down by it? I’m only hoping to encourage people to divest from it as much as they can rather then wait until it’s too late and be swallowed whole in the collapse.
I think a lot of us here understand the faults to our current way of living. No country is perfect, but like you said in another thread we have a freedom to choose our living. Breaking away from the system is the absolute way, but even then that requires constant work. Many are not ready for that type of investment.


Overall I think we’ll be ok.
Those of us sitting back but remaining on the surface will be ready when the time comes.
 






Maes17

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As for options. You have even stated yourself in the past. Self sustaining. But that is going to require constant work from everyone to really see progress.

You need to understand how to cultivate your own food sources, know how to generate energy etc.

Having land big enough or it doesn’t need to be big.
Maybe look at how co-ops operate. Farmers.

The thing is they still receive some type of on grid funding. To break away and try is Russian roulette. One small mishap will leave you without food, water, energy.


You’re a smart lady Jess. You have the drive and determination to pull off sustained living. But just make sure you’re actually ready before making that jump
 






justjess

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As for options. You have even stated yourself in the past. Self sustaining. But that is going to require constant work from everyone to really see progress.

You need to understand how to cultivate your own food sources, know how to generate energy etc.

Having land big enough or it doesn’t need to be big.
Maybe look at how co-ops operate. Farmers.

The thing is they still receive some type of on grid funding. To break away and try is Russian roulette. One small mishap will leave you without food, water, energy.


You’re a smart lady Jess. You have the drive and determination to pull off sustained living. But just make sure you’re actually ready before making that jump
Oh I’m working on it. We will get there in the near future. But I’m talking about more than that. One family going off grid isn’t going to effect the system very much. But I do certainly believe that multiple people choosing to disengage as much as possible will. Their system revolves around money and OUR labor. Without it... what do they have?
 






Maes17

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Oh I’m working on it. We will get there in the near future. But I’m talking about more than that. One family going off grid isn’t going to effect the system very much. But I do certainly believe that multiple people choosing to disengage as much as possible will. Their system revolves around money and OUR labor. Without it... what do they have?
No one family won’t. I just don’t think many families are ready to make that jump.
 






justjess

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No one family won’t. I just don’t think many families are ready to make that jump.
Any family that is ready to slaughter their neighbors should probably reconsider their options instead. But that’s the problem with Americans we always want the immediate “easier” option. No one wants to do the hard work.
 






justjess

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Also it’s more than just “going off grid” - that’s the ultimate goal but there are like a million things you can do in the interim if you aren’t ready for that yet.

My husband has been basically blacklisted from the system since he’s a kid. We tried really hard to get him back in but the only jobs they’d give him were temp or ones that didn’t pay anything especially for the amount of skill they required.. so we said fuck it and went outside the system. Started our own business and before we had the money to do that took side work jobs that paid cash.

You can homeschool your kids or put them in online school or start an educational coop with likeminded families in your neighborhood. Work?

Start your own. Easier said then done but possible.

Don’t watch tv. Don’t shop at corporate stores - local farmers, local small businesses. Barter.

this is all easier in a more rural area imo, but there are concrete steps you can take to start divesting from the system without going balls to the walls survivalist or something.
 






Maes17

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Any family that is ready to slaughter their neighbors should probably reconsider their options instead. But that’s the problem with Americans we always want the immediate “easier” option. No one wants to do the hard work.
That’s my point I was trying to say. Not everyone is ready or willing for that type of commitment
 






Maes17

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Also it’s more than just “going off grid” - that’s the ultimate goal but there are like a million things you can do in the interim if you aren’t ready for that yet.

My husband has been basically blacklisted from the system since he’s a kid. We tried really hard to get him back in but the only jobs they’d give him were temp or ones that didn’t pay anything especially for the amount of skill they required.. so we said fuck it and went outside the system. Started our own business and before we had the money to do that took side work jobs that paid cash.

You can homeschool your kids or put them in online school or start an educational coop with likeminded families in your neighborhood. Work?

Start your own. Easier said then done but possible.

Don’t watch tv. Don’t shop at corporate stores - local farmers, local small businesses. Barter.

this is all easier in a more rural area imo, but there are concrete steps you can take to start divesting from the system without going balls to the walls survivalist or something.
I’m slowly going that way Jess.
 






Mr.Anderson

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The system is crumbling on its own while we do nothing but watch... just wait it out. It’s been locked into a self-destruct pattern for a while now, despite how it seems.
The Tower never comes down brick by brick. It always crumbles under its own weight.
 






Mr.Anderson

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Start your own. Easier said then done but possible.
This is sketchy. Parler was one of the "start your own if you don't like it here" alternatives to twitter. Also there are some collective funding sites here in brazil that were also part of the "start your own...". it didn't end well too.

It's almost like we need to start our own internet, or go darknet.

BUT, my fav alternative is still to go offline with the old print and paper.
 






justjess

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This is sketchy. Parler was one of the "start your own if you don't like it here" alternatives to twitter. Also there are some collective funding sites here in brazil that were also part of the "start your own...". it didn't end well too.

It's almost like we need to start our own internet, or go darknet.

BUT, my fav alternative is still to go offline with the old print and paper.
I meant start your own business. Not sure how that is considered sketchy.
 






Aero

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Yeah, the internet is a mess these days. I'm pretty sure the federal government has an anti-trust case going against Google as we speak. Apple and Facebook are going at it too. Twitter and Reddit are literal troll havens. Where they protect all the anonymous trolls and then dox anyone brave or stupid enough to be known.

As far as a new business on the internet, there are still opportunities. When you have brand recognition, you can do whatever you want. The problem is getting to that point requires you to follow a strict formula for years. You have to play nice with all the internet gatekeepers, and it's boring as hell. Plus, sometimes playing nice isn't enough, and you have to entertain some spoken or unspoken deal.

Ultimately it's possible to make it without selling your soul. Try to think of it like taking money back for the souls they took. Or at least do something that heals the souls of the world.
 






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