How have Christians come to interpret "Lucifer" as the devil?

SquaredCircle

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So now you're into freemasonry and esoterism?
Explain us how Lucifer worship works and what it is really about since you seems to know what you're talking about.

While you're at it, tell us who wrote the Quran and what's its purpose since you said it's the continuation of the OT while it's already good at 'occult control'. Smh
Ive been a Rosicrucian and a Ordo Arum Solis member for 20 yrs plus ! I would say that yes “ now Im into Freemasonry and esotericism “ The 12 degree of the Scottish Rite is a Rosicrucian one ! The Rosicrucian’s pre date the Masons !
Look at the Rosicrucian as the subjective wizard and the Mason as a role in a play that guides .
The Temple of Set is the only true Satanic Society that for good or bad has a structure on the left hand path !
All groups are good and bad , yet Ive never engaged in hypocrisy and judgement like I did as a Christian.
Im a light seeker and any dark by choice societies are not for me ! Yet the Temple of Set is much more benign than modern Christianity and its completely insane ideas of God , Jesus and the end of the world ! In the end both Christianity and Satanist worship gods who have and will destroy anyone opposed to them ! So what is the difference?
Nature is Gods fingerprinting and I learn from nature . Intent is my mother and books and plants are my teachers , and ill mine the ruins of man and my life for Light and Love .
 

Pan

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Anyway, the essential thing to get out of this thread (on Isaiah 14) for readers of this thread, is that the King of Babylon was too overconfident. He thought himself to be more powerful than he actually was. The chapter at least paints him as a tyrant with massive resources, the notion being that he was once a person with it all who abused his power, and now he's crawling through the mud like every other person.

Geeze, if only Christians could understand how to read.

And remember that opening verse (Isaiah 14:3-4):
On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

Because it literally tells you the purpose of the poem. You (an Israelite in the 8th century BC), are supposed to use this poem (Isaiah 14:4-23) as a taunt towards the Babylonians. This is what the Bible says.
What is the conclusion of your theory? I think readers want to know your position on Lucifer and the Bible in general.

Is it your theory that Lucifer is just a planet, and all other Gods are Satan, ergo there is no “Good versus Evil”, it’s all just Satanic trickery? Also, the Bible is just a Satanic document that controls the uninitiated peasants?

You need to establish your theory on Lucifer, rather than bashing Christians for not knowing that Lucifer is “just a planet.”

What’s the real story?

Your theory appears to be that, aside Satan and his army of brainwashed human slaves, there is nothing else. No God. No Goodness. Just Satan.

....Or do you have another “belief system” that you’re not telling us about?

Shalom
 
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What is the conclusion of your theory? I think readers want to know your position on Lucifer and the Bible in general.

Is it your theory that Lucifer is just a planet, and all other Gods are Satan, ergo there is no “Good versus Evil”, it’s all just Satanic trickery? Also, the Bible is just a Satanic document that controls the uninitiated peasants?

You need to establish your theory on Lucifer, rather than bashing Christians for not knowing that Lucifer is “just a planet.”

What’s the real story?

Your theory appears to be that, aside Satan and his army of brainwashed human slaves, there is nothing else. No God. No Goodness. Just Satan.

....Or do you have another “belief system” that you’re not telling us about?

Shalom



 
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Now lets look at some commentaries of Isaiah 14 from a mainstream Christian Bible commentary site:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!—The word for Lucifer is, literally, the shining one, the planet Venus, the morning star, the son of the dawn, as the symbol of the Babylonian power, which was so closely identified with astrolatry. “Lucifer” etymologically gives the same meaning, and is used by Latin poets (Tibull. i., 10, 62) for Venus, as an equivalent for the phôsphoros of the Greeks. The use of the word, however, in mediæval Latin as a name of Satan, whose fall was supposed to be shadowed forth in this and the following verse, makes its selection here singularly unfortunate. Few English readers realise the fact that it is the king of Babylon, and not the devil, who is addressed as Lucifer. While this has been the history of the Latin word, its Greek and English equivalents have risen to a higher place, and the “morning star” has become a name of the Christ (Revelation 22:16).


Benson Commentary
Isaiah 14:12-14. How art thou fallen from heaven — From the height of thy glory; O Lucifer — Lucifer is properly a bright star, that ushers in the morning; but is here metaphorically taken for the mighty king of Babylon, who outshone all the kings of the earth by his great splendour. Song of Solomon of the morning — The title of Song of Solomon is given in Scripture, not only to a person or thing begotten or produced by another, but also to any thing which is related to it, in which sense we read of the son of a night, Jonah 4:10, a son of perdition, John 17:12, and, which is more agreeable to the present case, the sons of Arcturus, Job 38:32. How art thou cut down to the ground — Thou, whose power raised thee, in the estimation of men, even to heaven itself? Thou, who didst trample on, and destroy all the nations! For thou hast said in thy heart — Which lay open to God’s inspection; I will ascend into heaven — I will advance myself above the state of weak and mortal men. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God — Above all other kings and potentates; or, above the most eminent persons of God’s church. I will sit upon the mount of the congregation — I will establish my royal throne upon mount Zion, where the Jews meet together to worship God: in the sides of the north — This is added as a more exact description of the place of the temple; it stood upon mount Moriah, which was northward from the hill of Zion, strictly so called. I will be like the Most High — In the uncontrollableness of my power, and the universal extent of my dominion. By putting these and such like words into the mouths of the kings of Babylon, the prophet means to show their excessive pride, and the confidence which they entertained, that they should perpetually reign over the Jews.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
14:1-23 The whole plan of Divine Providence is arranged with a view to the good of the people of God. A settlement in the land of promise is of God's mercy. Let the church receive those whom God receives. God's people, wherever their lot is cast, should endeavour to recommend religion by a right and winning conversation. Those that would not be reconciled to them, should be humbled by them. This may be applied to the success of the gospel, when those were brought to obey it who had opposed it. God himself undertakes to work a blessed change. They shall have rest from their sorrow and fear, the sense of their present burdens, and the dread of worse. Babylon abounded in riches. The king of Babylon having the absolute command of so much wealth, by the help of it ruled the nations. This refers especially to the people of the Jews; and it filled up the measure of the king of Babylon's sins. Tyrants sacrifice their true interest to their lusts and passions. It is gracious ambition to covet to be like the Most Holy, for he has said, Be ye holy, for I am holy; but it is sinful ambition to aim to be like the Most High, for he has said, He who exalts himself shall be abased. The devil thus drew our first parents to sin. Utter ruin should be brought upon him. Those that will not cease to sin, God will make to cease. He should be slain, and go down to the grave; this is the common fate of tyrants. True glory, that is, true grace, will go up with the soul to heaven, but vain pomp will go down with the body to the grave; there is an end of it. To be denied burial, if for righteousness' sake, may be rejoiced in, Mt 5:12. But if the just punishment of sin, it denotes that impenitent sinners shall rise to everlasting shame and contempt. Many triumphs should be in his fall. God will reckon with those that disturb the peace of mankind. The receiving the king of Babylon into the regions of the dead, shows there is a world of spirits, to which the souls of men remove at death. And that souls have converse with each other, though we have none with them; and that death and hell will be death and hell indeed, to all who fall unholy, from the height of this world's pomps, and the fulness of its pleasures. Learn from all this, that the seed of evil-doers shall never be renowned. The royal city is to be ruined and forsaken. Thus the utter destruction of the New Testament Babylon is illustrated, Re 18:2. When a people will not be made clean with the besom of reformation, what can they expect but to be swept off the face of the earth with the besom of destruction?
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven - A new image is presented here. It is that of the bright morning star; and a comparison of the once magnificent monarch with that beautiful star. He is now exhibited as having fallen from his place in the east to the earth. His glory is dimmed; his brightness quenched. Nothing can be more poetic and beautiful than a comparison of a magnificent monarch with the bright morning star! Nothing more striking in representing his death, than the idea of that star falling to the earth!
Lucifer - Margin, 'Day-star' (הילל hēylēl, from הלל hâlal, "to shine"). The word in Hebrew occurs as a noun nowhere else. In two other places Ezekiel 21:12; Zechariah 11:2, it is used as a verb in the imperative mood of Hiphil, and is translated 'howl' from the verb ילל yālal, "to howl" or "cry." Gesenius and Rosenmuller suppose that it should be so rendered here. So Noyes renders it, 'Howl, son of the morning!' But the common translation seems to be preferable. The Septuagint renders it, Ἑωσφόρος Heōsphoros, and the Vulgate, 'Lucifer, the morning star.' The Chaldee, 'How art thou fallen from high, who wert splendid among the sons of men.' There can be no doubt that the object in the eve of the prophet was the bright morning star; and his design was to compare this magnificent oriental monarch with that. The comparison of a monarch with the sun, or the other heavenly bodies, is common in the Scriptures.

Son of the morning - This is a Hebraism (see the note at Matthew 1:1), and signifies that that bright star is, as it were, the production, or the offspring of morning; or that it belongs to the morning. The word 'son' often thus denotes possession, or that one thing belongs to another. The same star in one place represents the Son of God himself; Revelation 21:16 : 'I am - the bright and morning star.'

Which didst weaken the nations - By thy oppressions and exactions, rendering once mighty nations feeble.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Isa 14:12-15. The Jews Address Him Again as a Fallen Once-bright Star.
The language is so framed as to apply to the Babylonian king primarily, and at the same time to shadow forth through him, the great final enemy, the man of sin, Antichrist, of Daniel, St. Paul, and St. John; he alone shall fulfil exhaustively all the lineaments here given.

12. Lucifer—"day star." A title truly belonging to Christ (Re 22:16), "the bright and morning star," and therefore hereafter to be assumed by Antichrist. Gesenius, however, renders the Hebrew here as in Eze 21:12; Zec 11:2, "howl."

weaken—"prostrate"; as in Ex 17:13, "discomfit."

Matthew Poole's Commentary
From heaven; from the height of thy glory and royal majesty. As kings are sometimes called gods in Scripture, so their palaces and thrones may be fitly called their heavens.

O Lucifer; which properly is a bright and eminent star, which ushers in the sun and the morning; but is here metaphorically taken for the high and mighty king of Babylon. And it is a very usual thing, both in prophetical and in profane writers, to describe the princes and potentates of the world under the title of the sun or stars of heaven. Some understand this place of the devil; to whom indeed it may be mystically applied; but as he is never called by this name in Scripture, so it cannot be literally meant of him, but of the king of Babylon, as is undeniably evident from the whole context, which certainly speaks of one and the same person, and describes him as plainly as words can do it.

Song of Solomon of the morning: the title of son is given in Scripture not only to a person or thing begotten or produced by another, but also in general to any thing which is any way related to another; in which sense we read of a son of stripes, Deu 25:2, the son of a night, Jonah 4:10, a son of perdition, John 17:12, and, which is more agreeable to the present case, the sons of Arcturus, Job 38:32.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven,.... This is not to be understood of the fall of Satan, and the apostate angels, from their first estate, when they were cast down from heaven to hell, though there may be an allusion to it; see Luke 10:18 but the words are a continuation of the speech of the dead to the king of Babylon, wondering at it, as a thing almost incredible, that he who seemed to be so established on the throne of his kingdom, which was his heaven, that he should be deposed or fall from it. So the destruction of the Roman Pagan emperors is signified by the casting out of the dragon and his angels from heaven, Revelation 12:7 and in like manner Rome Papal, or the Romish antichrist, will fall from his heaven of outward splendour and happiness, of honour and authority, now, possessed by him:
O Lucifer, son of the morning! alluding to the star Venus, which is the phosphorus or morning star, which ushers in the light of the morning, and shows that day is at hand; by which is meant, not Satan, who is never in Scripture called Lucifer, though he was once an angel of light, and sometimes transforms himself into one, and the good angels are called morning stars, Job 38:7 and such he and his angels once were; but the king of Babylon is intended, whose royal glory and majesty, as outshining all the rest of the kings of the earth, is expressed by those names; and which perhaps were such as he took himself, or were given him by his courtiers. The Targum is,

"how art thou fallen from on high, who was shining among the sons of men, as the star Venus among the stars.''

Jarchi, as the Talmud (c), applies it to Nebuchadnezzar; though, if any particular person is pointed at, Belshazzar is rather designed, the last of the kings of Babylon. The church of Rome, in the times of the apostles, was famous for its light and knowledge; its faith was spoken of throughout all the earth; and its bishops or pastors were bright stars, in the morning of the Gospel dispensation:

how art thou cut down to the ground; like a tall tree that is cut down, and laid along the ground, and can never rise and flourish more, to which sometimes great monarchs and monarchies are compared; see Isaiah 10:18 and this denotes that the king of Babylon should die, not a natural, but a violent death, as Belshazzar did, with whom the Babylonish monarchy fell, and never rose more; and this is a representation of the sudden, violent, and irrecoverable ruin of the Romish antichrist, Revelation 18:21,

which didst weaken the nations! by subduing them, taking cities and towns, plundering the inhabitants of their substance, carrying them captive, or obliging them to a yearly tribute, by which means he weakened them, and kept them under. So the Romish antichrist has got the power over many nations of the earth, and has reigned over the kings of it, and by various methods has drained them of their wealth and riches, and so greatly enfeebled them; nay, they have of themselves given their power and strength unto the beast, Revelation 17:12. Several of the Jewish writers observe, that the word here used signifies to cast lots; and so it is used in the Misna (d), and explained in the Talmud (e); and is applied to the king of Babylon casting lots upon the nations and kingdoms whom he should go to war with, and subdue first; see Ezekiel 21:19. The Targum is,

"thou art cast down to the earth, who killedst the people:''

a fit description of antichrist, Revelation 11:7.

(c) T. Bab. Cholin, fol. 89. 1. Gloss. in Pesachim, fol. 94. 1. & Chagiga, fol. 13. 1.((d) Misn. Sabbat, c. 23. 2. & Maimon. & Bartenora in ib. (e) T. Bab. Sabbat, fol. 149. 2.

Geneva Study Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O {h} Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(h) You who thought yourself most glorious and as it were placed in the heaven for the morning star that goes before the sun, is called Lucifer, to whom Nebuchadnezzar is compared.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
12. O Lucifer; son of the morning] In his splendour he is likened to the morning star; which was worshipped by the Babylonians under the name of Istar, and is described in Assyrian by an epithet, mustilil (shining star), which seems to correspond to the word here used (Schrader, Cuneiform Inscriptions, on this verse). The translation “Lucifer” (light-bearer) is quite correct, and is needlessly abandoned by the R.V. By some of the fathers the passage was applied to the fall of Satan (cf. Luke 10:18); hence the current use of Lucifer as a name of the devil.

For weaken, read lay prostrate.

12–15. The third strophe contains the prophet’s reflection on the sudden fall of the king of Babylon. That he should go to Sheol at all was a fate never contemplated by his soaring and self-deifying pride.
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 12. - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer! Babylon's sudden fall is compared, with great force and beauty, to the (seeming) fall of a star from heaven. The word translated "Lucifer" means properly "shining one," and no doubt here designates a star; but whether any particular star or no is uncertain. The LXX. translated by ἑωσφόρος, whence our "Lucifer." The subjoined epithet, "son of the morning" or "of the dawn," accords well with this rendering. How art thou cut down to the ground! One of Isaiah's favorite changes of metaphor. It is a favorite metaphor also to which he reverts - that of representing the destruction of a nation by the felling of a tree or of a forest (comp. Isaiah 2:12, 13; Isaiah 10:33, 34, etc.). Which didst weaken the nations; rather, which didst prostrate the nations. The word used is one of great force (comp. Exodus 17:13; Job 14:10).
Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
The song of the redeemed is a song concerning the fall of the king of Babel. Isaiah 14:3, Isaiah 14:4. Instead of the hiphil hinniach (to let down) of Isaiah 14:1, we have here, as in the original passage, Deuteronomy 25:19, the form hēniach, which is commonly used in the sense of quieting, or procuring rest. עצב is trouble which plagues (as עמל is trouble which oppresses), and rōgez restlessness which wears out with anxious care (Job 3:26, cf., Ezekiel 12:18). The assimilated min before the two words is pronounced mĭ, with a weak reduplication, instead of mē, as elsewhere, before ח, ה, and even before ר (1 Samuel 23:28; 2 Samuel 18:16). In the relative clause עבּד־בך אשר, אשר is not the Hebrew casus adverb. answering to the Latin ablative qu servo te usi sunt; not do בך ... אשר belong to one another in the sense of quo, as in Deuteronomy 21:3, qu (vitul); but it is regarded as an acc. obj. according to Exodus 1:14 and Leviticus 25:39, qu'on t'a fait servir, as in Numbers 32:5, qu'on donne la terre (Luzzatto). When delivered from such a yoke of bondage, Israel would raise a mâshâl. According to its primary and general meaning, mâshâl signifies figurative language, and hence poetry generally, more especially that kind of proverbial poetry which loves the emblematical, and, in fact, any artistic composition that is piquant in its character; so that the idea of what is satirical or defiant may easily be associated with it, as in the passage before us.
The words are addressed to the Israel of the future in the Israel of the present, as in Isaiah 12:1. The former would then sing, and say as follows. "How hath the oppressor ceased! The place of torture ceased! Jehovah hath broken the rod of the wicked, the ruler's staff, which cmote nations in wrath with strokes without ceasing subjugated nations wrathfully with hunting than nevers stays." Not one of the early translators ever thought of deriving the hap. leg. madhebâh from the Aramaean dehab (gold), as Vitringa, Aurivillius, and Rosenmller have done. The former have all translated the word as if it were marhēbâh (haughty, violent treatment), as corrected by J. D. Michaelis, Doederlein, Knobel, and others. But we may arrive at the same result without altering a single letter, if we take דּאב as equivalent to דּהב, דּוּב, to melt or pine away, whether we go back to the kal or to the hiphil of the verb, and regard the Mem as used in a material or local sense. We understand it, according to madmenah (dunghill) in Isaiah 25:10, as denoting the place where they were reduced to pining away, i.e., as applied to Babylon as the house of servitude where Israel had been wearied to death. The tyrant's sceptre, mentioned in Isaiah 14:5, is the Chaldean world-power regarded as concentrated in the king of Babel (cf., shēbet in Numbers 24:17). This tyrant's sceptre smote nations with incessant blows and hunting: maccath is construed with macceh, the derivative of the same verb; and murdâph, a hophal noun (as in Isaiah 9:1; Isaiah 29:3), with rodeh, which is kindred in meaning. Doederlein's conjecture (mirdath), which has been adopted by most modern commentators, is quite unnecessary. Unceasing continuance is expressed first of all with bilti, which is used as a preposition, and followed by sârâh, a participial noun like câlâh, and then with b'li, which is construed with the finite verb as in Genesis 31:20; Job 41:18; for b'li châsâk is an attributive clause: with a hunting which did not restrain itself, did not stop, and therefore did not spare. Nor is it only Israel and other subjugated nations that now breathe again.
 

Pan

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I get it. The Bible doesn't explicitly say that "Lucifer" is Satan.

So what's the real story? The Bible is a hoax? A bedtime story for the global slave class?

This is believable. Christianity has proven itself to be next to useless. If Christianity can't protect itself from Jewish subversion, then what's the point of Christianity?

Maybe Christianity was supposed to be subverted, and it has been controlled opposition this entire time.

Christianity appears to be giant demoralisation project to show us that Evil really does triumph. We live in a world where deception is de rigueur. If the Mossad can pull off 9/11, then Satan can pull off a fake Bible. If the Rothschilds can build a Global Banking Matrix, then creating a fake Bible should really be child's play.

...but you still haven't identified "Who" is running all of this. Is it Satan?

You seem to be very supportive of Jews too, which is bound to rouse suspicion. What are your views on how Kabbalah fits into all of this? Do Jews play a role at all in the global power games?
 
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I get it. The Bible doesn't explicitly say that "Lucifer" is Satan.
It doesn't admit "Lucifer" (a latin name for Venus.....the actual text is in Hebrew...do you spot an issue?) as a being at all.

As already said here: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/how-have-christians-come-to-interpret-lucifer-as-the-devil.7131/post-272254

...but you still haven't identified "Who" is running all of this. Is it Satan?
You know very well that this thread is only about the minuscule reference to Lucifer (morning star, Venus) as an analogy against the King of Babylon, in the Bible and a very self-explanatory analysis of what the text says.

If you want to talk about "evil satanic jewish archons ruling the world" go make your own thread but I'm not interested in your kool aid.
 

Pan

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It doesn't admit "Lucifer" (a latin name for Venus.....the actual text is in Hebrew...do you spot an issue?) as a being at all.

As already said here: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/how-have-christians-come-to-interpret-lucifer-as-the-devil.7131/post-272254
So, let's say Lucifer is a planet...

What's your theory?

Christianity is really just a Satanic religion? What about Judaism? Islam? Are they all Satanic?

What's the real history between Jewish and Christian antagonism? Why have Jews worked so hard to defeat Christianity and subvert reality through their social justice movements? If both sides are playing for Satan, it doesn't make sense.
 
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What's your theory?
There is none, you know that this thread is about Isaiah 14 and nothing else, nothing else except for it has been brought up by me.

You and others (like Red sky at morning) have tried to take this thread on meaningless tangents that have nothing to do with the topic.
 

Pan

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You know very well that this thread is only about the minuscule reference to Lucifer (morning star, Venus) as an analogy against the King of Babylon, in the Bible and a very self-explanatory analysis of what the text says.

If you want to talk about "evil satanic jewish archons ruling the world" go make your own thread but I'm not interested in your kool aid.
HAH!

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a shill.

Look at this Jew squirm when you ask him to describe Judaism - "Jews are innocent, the Bible is FAKE and Lucifer is just a planet, you stupid Goy. Oy Vey!"

You sir, have made my day. Thank you.
 
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HAH!

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a shill.

Look at this Jew squirm when you ask him to describe Judaism - "Jews are innocent, the Bible is FAKE and Lucifer is just a planet, you stupid Goy. Oy Vey!"

You sir, have made my day. Thank you.
Delicious bait, surely someone will bite that.
 

Wigi

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Ive been a Rosicrucian and a Ordo Arum Solis member for 20 yrs plus ! I would say that yes “ now Im into Freemasonry and esotericism “ The 12 degree of the Scottish Rite is a Rosicrucian one ! The Rosicrucian’s pre date the Masons !
Look at the Rosicrucian as the subjective wizard and the Mason as a role in a play that guides .
There it is, I already know what rosicrucianism is about and you implied in your precedent post that you practiced kabbalah too.
Life is stranger than fiction because for a long long time we thought kabbalah and freemasonry was the great evil but now VC forum literally have masons who explains white magick is good, lucifer not that bad and Christianity bad.

In the end both Christianity and Satanist worship gods who have and will destroy anyone opposed to them ! So what is the difference?
Hold on, what/who is Lucifer for you or in your circles?
And why you talked about the Quran?
 
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Pan

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There it is, I already know what rosicrucianism is about and you implied in your precedent post that you practiced kabbalah too.
Life is stranger than fiction because for a long long time we thought kabbalah and freemasonry was the great evil but now VC forum literally have masons who explains white magick is good, lucifer not that bad and Christianity bad.


Hold on, what/who is Lucifer for you or in your circles?
And why you talked about the Quran?
The reason we have such strong Masonic presence on VC is that there is literally no opposition left. Jewish Freemasonry has completely annihilated all the opposition, globally. They have complete control of the narrative now. We are at a point in time now where Jews and their lackeys can openly start saying that "God is Satan" without any fear of reprisal.
 
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@Wigi to draw an analogy of what you and other Christians are promoting in this thread, I'll give you an analogy.

It is like claiming that Job 8:14 proves that Spiderman is an angel in Christianity.
 

Pan

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@Wigi to draw an analogy of what you and other Christians are promoting in this thread, I'll give you an analogy.

It is like claiming that Job 8:14 proves that Spiderman is an angel in Christianity.
God is Spider-Man now? I thought God was Satan?

Make up your mind, Jew. The only “spider” here is you
 

SquaredCircle

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There it is, I already know what rosicrucianism is about and you implied in your precedent post that you practiced kabbalah too.
Life is stranger than fiction because for a long long time we thought kabbalah and freemasonry was the great evil but now VC forum literally have masons who explains white magick is good, lucifer not that bad and Christianity bad.


Hold on, what/who is Lucifer for you or in your circles?
And why you talked about the Quran?
There is no Lucifer. Lucifer is a story and analogy of man and that is it .
If your not a Rosicrucian then you would know nothing about its construct . Do you realise that most all the books written about secret societies are filled with secrets and purposely written falsehoods .
Why would any Hermetic order willingly hand out its info on Google or in a catch all book at Barnes & Noble about the NWO .
The reason that religion is so prevalent is , because it allows the common man to be a passenger rather than a driver of their lives .
Few have the talent or Spirit to become illuminated on their own ! Secret Societies dont hold your hand and force anything upon you ! A true Hermetic Order will show you a room with blocks and building supplies .Now their is a living Confraternity that includes Jesus , Mohammed, Crowley , Buddha , Hermes Trismegistus , Toth , Asclepius, Origen , Athanasius, ta’wīll Muslim esotericism etc....which are examples only .

This Confraternity was and is alive ! Mans heart beats the same , yet through responsibility to mans self ,we honour God by accepting ourselves as God and not a grovelling set of filthy rags that needs his hand held .
God cares not about what you think his will is ! God wants you to prevail in Light by the imprint of our soul.
Once again how can I accept God when we are God ?
Christianity teaches that man has control of God by his good or bad behaviour and God is bound to obey man , because of covenant law.
How can a created being who is from God and of God ,which is separated only by a corporal body of flesh , be asked to accepted what he already is ???
Does your Father and Mother create you and then at age 12-14 yrs old require you to accept them as your creator ? That is pure insanity!
Isaiah is an analogy of historical site specific events that they applied natural events of the solar system to create retocausality were none existed !
Love requires zero ultimatums !!!!! Can you say that of any religions books ? Good luck with that one !

Your theology is new theology and does not have any Confraternity to the people who were closest in time and relationship to these figures in your Bible !
Im sure your not a horrible person and you want to do good , but why does Isaiah need to be describing a evil behind the scenes Devil that has worldly control ?
Does not your eschatology require things to be getting worse in a inverse square from the crucifixion forward ? I would have to say we live in the most civil and peaceful times EVER on earth !

Your issue as an evangelical is that if the world is not fitting the Christian narrative you guys force and find all logic to be Satan created as a ruse !!!
In the future people who think this way will be hospitalised for delusion and psychosis !
Your involved in religion, because you need group think and conformation .
I joined secret societies so I could be thrown into fear and darkness and monitored on how I prevail ! If you prevail you become a holder of True Light together with your Fraters .
Religion accepts all lunacy provided you have accepted Jesus etc.... as your mediator to God !
Jesus did just as I did ! He was shown a way and he lived a living Hermetica into Light and Love that inspired and not commanded following !
Now grow up a bit and shut your light off long enough so you learn to create your own Light which God recognises as his and yours in one !
God is and is not !
 
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SquaredCircle

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The reason we have such strong Masonic presence on VC is that there is literally no opposition left. Jewish Freemasonry has completely annihilated all the opposition, globally. They have complete control of the narrative now. We are at a point in time now where Jews and their lackeys can openly start saying that "God is Satan" without any fear of reprisal.
There are so few Jewish or Muslim members in the Masonic orders ! The Masons , Rosicrucian’s and Martinist’s are predominately Christ centred with other beliefs fleshing out the rest !
The Jewish faith has its Kabbalah and the Islamic people have the ta’wīll groups and all these groups help make up the eastern and western mystery schools !
Now of course there are powerful men who are Mason’s , but their power was blood born and not created by becoming a Mason !
The Mason’s dont control anything ! The Jews are very involved in finance yes , but only as tools .
The real power in the world lies in the Roman , Venice and German/Austrian banking families which are no were close to Jewish ! The Mars/Candia , Medici , Krupp , and Hapsburg's pull more weight than any Jewish secret banking league ever !
The above mentioned families use the Bible and its Churches to control the masses !
If you are against the NWO I suggest you throw your bible out , quit church and learn how to become a free man through hermetica Confraternity.
The Mason’s are not a true hermetic order imo , because of the constant hand holding and lodge approach to their craft ! Plus I bow to no worshipful master ! Im a Sage and an Alchemist alone yet seen with others on a path to mystery !
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Plus I bow to no worshipful master ! Im a Sage and an Alchemist alone yet seen with others on a path to mystery !
An Ipsissimus perhaps?

I must say that Satan is great at marketing, to make the highest “levels” of attainment and apparent freedom something you can work a lifetime at, only to find yourself trapped at the bottom of a hole of sin and selfishness.

Contrast that with the words of Jesus in John 8...

34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.​
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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To the specific question of the OP as set out by @Infinityloop ...


"Is Lucifer Satan? Does the fall of Lucifer describe Satan?"

There is no verse in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in Isaiah 14:12 is likely the same that Jesus referred to in Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12–18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer,” a name that means “morning star,” “son of the dawn,” “Day Star / Daystar,” or “shining star.” The description of the one referred to shows us it can be none other than Satan. We know from Jesus’ own words in Luke 10 that Satan fell from heaven. So, when Isaiah refers to Lucifer (In Hebrew, helel) being cast down to earth (Isaiah 14:12), it can be none other than Satan. The reason for his fall is found in verses 13 and 14: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’” This has always been Satan’s desire—to be God—and it is the very temptation he used in the garden of Eden to get Eve to disobey God: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5).

Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Although it begins with Ezekiel being commanded by God to “take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre” (v. 12), an evil idolatrous king, it soon becomes clear that the passage is referring as well to the power behind that king—Satan. Verse 13 says he was “in Eden, the garden of God.” Clearly, the king of Tyre was never in Eden. Verse 14 says, “You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.” Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18–21). Since the king of Tyre was never in heaven, either, this can only be describing Lucifer. The rest of the passage describes the reason he was cast out of heaven. Because of his beauty, his heart became proud and his wisdom was corrupted (Ezekiel 28:17). Pride in his perfection, wisdom, and beauty (v. 12) became the source of his downfall, and God threw him to the earth (v. 17). This was witnessed by the Lord Jesus in heaven before His incarnation (Luke 10:18).

To summarize, Lucifer was cast out of heaven for his sin of pride and his desire to be God. Jesus referred to seeing Satan being cast out of heaven. Therefore, we can conclude that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same.

Recommended Resource: Angels: Elect & Evil by C. Fred Dickason

Dr. Dickason offers a detailed discussion on God's angelic creations and our relationship to them. A thorough outline covering the existence, origins, names, classifications, and ministry of angels is overviewed. Later sections discuss the activity in which Satan and his angels are involved. Their original state and fall, personality, and ultimate destruction is reviewed as well. Dr. Dickason concludes with a summary of the believer's defense against such powers of evil.

Source
 
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