How have Christians come to interpret "Lucifer" as the devil?

SquaredCircle

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I do find it interesting that both Freemasons and Luciferian religions embrace dualism - the weaving together of the black and the white.

View attachment 32237

If this signature is a glimpse into the nature of the “enemy of our souls”, it seems that the Biblical presentation Ha’ Satan of accuser and seducer is accurate.
You know nothing about Freemasonry or Lucifer religions. Can describe the ascension in the Temple of Set ? No you cant ! So why do you make such broad assessments of things that you only glean from Google or other conspiracy minded people here on VC .
I hate evil and stand against it on all fronts and that is why I left Christianity!
I dont subscribe to devil worship , idol worship , judgement, hatred , lines in the sand , chosen mentality etc.... those were my Christian days !
The only thing that is constant in my life is that I know little of anything with complete authority.
I can say that I have not found Love and Light in the OT and the NT is a Roman book and teachings that Paul hijacked from James the Brother of Jesus . By having Jesus as the same god of the OT there is a major problem ! Jesus was not the creator god ! Jesus imo was one of few teachers who were true dual people !
Jesus’s soul was a objective truth to him and his humanity was the subjective! A true sage !
 






SquaredCircle

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Can you name an Ancient Church Father without looking it up ? You really need someone theology courses .
Im assuming your evangelical or Baptist, because your understanding of well known and taught theology is very new and quite far from anything accepted by any and I mean any theology department of 95% of the colleges in the world !
Do you know what Christ means in Hebrew and do you know what Christos means in Koine Greek means ? They are very different .

The bible is not all bad ! The book is littered with Jewish mysticism, sacred geometry and numerology as well astronomy!
How can this be you ask ? It was put together by people steeped in esoteric mystery schools and Tree of Life Kabbalah. The problem is that they hid it and used the other parts t control man !
The most nefarious book of occult evil control is the OT and NT . The Quran is many hundreds of years later and is just a continuation of the OT with a different prophet at the reigns .
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Can you name an Ancient Church Father without looking it up ? You really need someone theology courses .
Im assuming your evangelical or Baptist, because your understanding of well known and taught theology is very new and quite far from anything accepted by any and I mean any theology department of 95% of the colleges in the world !
I have been a Christian for about 40 years now. I am aware of Catholic and Protestant theology as well as some liberal interpretations. I find it hard to join denominations as I find that you come under a systematic theology that may well bean unbiblical one. That having been said, I attend a non-denominational church and really enjoy Bible study. As for church fathers, I do know a few but I’m not an intellectual boaster.

What these particular church fathers said about the true ending of the Gospel of Mark and the implications for certain lines of manuscript is fascinating...

Early evidence for Mark 16 9:20
 






Wigi

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You know nothing about Freemasonry or Lucifer religions. Can describe the ascension in the Temple of Set ? No you cant ! So why do you make such broad assessments of things that you only glean from Google or other conspiracy minded people here on VC .
I hate evil and stand against it on all fronts and that is why I left Christianity!
I dont subscribe to devil worship , idol worship , judgement, hatred , lines in the sand , chosen mentality etc.... those were my Christian days !
The only thing that is constant in my life is that I know little of anything with complete authority.
I can say that I have not found Love and Light in the OT and the NT is a Roman book and teachings that Paul hijacked from James the Brother of Jesus . By having Jesus as the same god of the OT there is a major problem ! Jesus was not the creator god ! Jesus imo was one of few teachers who were true dual people !
Jesus’s soul was a objective truth to him and his humanity was the subjective! A true sage !
So now you're into freemasonry and esoterism?
Explain us how Lucifer worship works and what it is really about since you seems to know what you're talking about.

While you're at it, tell us who wrote the Quran and what's its purpose since you said it's the continuation of the OT while it's already good at 'occult control'. Smh
 






shankara

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Red Sky at Morning

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So you're suggesting that the Bible shouldn't be interpreted literally? Don't say that to some people on this forum, they'll say you're destined for an eternal fire bath. Anyway, if you're going to take it all to be symbolic then why not go step further. For example, Christ as the living symbol of the Sun.
I think most readers of the Bible eventually note that there is a literal level on which a passage can be taken, and additional levels which contain symbolism with meanings that are further unpacked. Take the Bronze Serpent than Moses held up. It had a literal historical context and a deeper meaning. I’m sure nobody will agree with me, but with reference to the OP, a similar pattern plays out with the Son of the Morning...
 






Helioform

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There is another verse that mentions "Morning stars" and it's in Job 38:7:

"when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"

I believe that both Satan and Jesus are "morning stars", and this why Jesus is referred to as one in Revelation and this alleged king of Babylon in Isaiah, which has been interpretated as being Satan. I don't see how a mere king could be compared to a heavenly body anyway.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Sometimes when you present an idea contrary to the main drive of a thread, it feels like you are proposing a seven legged aqua-cat as a plausible species!

I was just catching up on the comments from earlier and listening to a YouTube presentation on Antiochus Epiphanies and the Antichrist, and the phrase “dual fulfilment” came up...

 






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speaking of duality...

"Lucifer" represents the reversal of the masculine principle, just as "satan" is the negative reversal of the feminine. Satan/lucifer is the dark duality, which represents the corruption/reversal of the hieros gamos, which is true union of the divine mother and divine father principles.



Whoever designed this highly symbolic album cover, whether consciously or unconsciously, knew all about the alien machinery responsible for generating and maintaining the checkerboard mutation. Reversal of the planetary energy currents generated polarity distortions due to extreme amplification, and resulted in a pulsing bi-wave consciousness that locked the collective into a closed-off, entropic system. (the checkerboard pattern is what it looks like in cross section)

Good news, though... the reversal networks are no longer effective and the trinity wave is now finally accessible.
 






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JohnnyBgood

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Once again vague comments with no indication of relevance. Please analyze Isaiah 14 for us and show us how it isn't about the King that it clearly and eloquently presents itself to be about.
Stop getting mad at everyone who don't agree with your point of view. If you want to impose your opinion on everyone go start a Religion like everyone else who thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. You posted a thread, didn't like what you heard back, and are acting like a child because they aren't accepting your point of view
 






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speaking of duality...
Christianity is dualistic, it believes in Jesus/Satan. The only difference between gnosticism and mainstream Christianity there is that Christians call 'the god of this world' by the name of Satan, whereas gnostics identify it by other names (including Yahweh in some gnostic traditions).

"Lucifer" represents the reversal of the masculine principle, just as "satan" is the negative reversal of the feminine. Satan/lucifer is the dark duality
Can you be more intelligent than the other Christians here and prove what you're claiming from the Bible itself?

So far it's been established that the Bible speaks of no deity, entity, demon, angel, or anything of the sort called "lucifer", and that the only passage in the whole Bible that mentions it by name uses it as a poetic analogy for the celebration of the fall of a Pagan king (whom lucifer/venus is analogized), of which the text emphasizes the notion of "God made the king of Babylon fall so that Israel will concur" etc.
As I highlighted in another post here, later in the chapter we also see allusions to the captivity of the Israelite with the Egyptians and Pharaoh, this all of course makes sense because the Israelites were in Babylonian captivity around the period that the book of Isaiah was written.
 






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There is another verse that mentions "Morning stars" and it's in Job 38:7:

"when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"
So that the thread can see, the passage that this verse is from is as follows (38:4-11), interestingly like in Isaiah it is a poem:

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
“Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?


I believe that both Satan and Jesus are "morning stars"
Where do you get this from, in regards to Satan? what is your evidence of it?

I don't see how a mere king could be compared to a heavenly body anyway.
Ok, lets go back to Isaiah 14 and look at some relevant passages from that chapter:

On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”


...........................


All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.
How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star (lucifer), son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”


If you have any intelligence you will be able to tell that it doesn't call the King of Babylon himself venus/lucifer, he uses the astrological myth about venus/luciver/light-bearer and it's fall as an analogy for the fall of the King, as I've been explaining here since my OP.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, then read Isaiah 14 at least five times before you go replying to this post, seriously.
 






Wigi

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The only fallen Angel we constantly hear throughout the Bible is the same angel who corrupts the world claiming he brought us wisdom.

You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you."
Ezekiel 28:13‭-‬17

Jesus said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."
Luke 10:18

Satan is Lucifer no doubt and people shouldn't be surprised that his servants will defend him and say 'Lucifer isn't Satan' or "Satan isn't actually Satan but a philosophy" or 'Lucifer good, Bible bad' because he is the deceiver and the father of lies so of course he will lie about him too.

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Revelation 12:9
 






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You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you."
Ezekiel 28:13‭-‬17
I wonder why you deliberately ignored the previous verses? :rolleyes:

Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
- Ezekiel 28:11-12


Not discussing an angel at all, it's discussing yet another King. Is this saying the King of Tyrus was in the garden of eden with Adam and Eve? or are you deliberately ignoring the context of the verses?

Jesus said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."
Luke 10:18
What do you think of this verse in the context of the whole of Luke 10?

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Revelation 12:9
Yes, yet there are more serpents in the Bible than just Genesis 3. Moses and Aaron turned their staffs into serpents, did their staffs turn into Satan? Moses also later mounted a bronze serpent as also mentioned previous in the thread, was that serpent also Satan?
Hezekiah broke that bronze serpent of Moses in 2 Kings 18, did Hezekiah destroy Satan?
Jesus tells people to be "harmless as doves but wise as serpents" in Matthew 3, is he calling Satan wise?

Or, just maybe, you're not good at reading what your Bible actually says?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I wonder why you deliberately ignored the previous verses? :rolleyes:

Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
- Ezekiel 28:11-12


Not discussing an angel at all, it's discussing yet another King. Is this saying the King of Tyrus was in the garden of eden with Adam and Eve? or are you deliberately ignoring the context of the verses?



What do you think of this verse in the context of the whole of Luke 10?



Yes, yet there are more serpents in the Bible than just Genesis 3. Moses and Aaron turned their staffs into serpents, did their staffs turn into Satan? Moses also later mounted a bronze serpent as also mentioned previous in the thread, was that serpent also Satan?
Hezekiah broke that bronze serpent of Moses in 2 Kings 18, did Hezekiah destroy Satan?
Jesus tells people to be "harmless as doves but wise as serpents" in Matthew 3, is he calling Satan wise?

Or, just maybe, you're not good at reading what your Bible actually says?
In the beginning, the judgement was pronounced on the serpent and a simplistic reading might be that God is being harsh on that particular snake.

There was more to it...

The judgement that was pronounced was actually the “Protoevangelium”, showing the outline of the plan of salvation from the very beginning.

12661E61-46FC-4D3A-AB7C-797A089ACB79.png
 






Wigi

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I wonder why you deliberately ignored the previous verses? :rolleyes:

Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
- Ezekiel 28:11-12


Not discussing an angel at all, it's discussing yet another King. Is this saying the King of Tyrus was in the garden of eden with Adam and Eve? or are you deliberately ignoring the context of the verses?
It is not really a secret that kings resorted to occult practices and in the Bible we see that those kings were either instruments of God or allies of Satan that's why the Bible says that we're not fighting against flesh and blood :

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12

In this case, the king of tyr received his power from the cherub who existed in Eden and who had been casted away.

What do you think of this verse in the context of the whole of Luke 10?
The point is about Satan falling from heaven and the context gives some insight because the disciples were happy to subject demons in Jesus name, demons who came with the fall of lucifer.

Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
Luke 10:17


Or, just maybe, you're not good at reading what your Bible actually says?
In fact we'll likely won't agree about anything unless you explain who/what is lucifer for you.
 






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In fact we'll likely won't agree about anything unless you explain who/what is lucifer for you.
I have already said explicitly, repeatedly, that Lucifer is the latin name for Venus, which is a planet that orbits in our solar system. Lucifer is not a being, him her angel demon or anything. Nor is there any reason given to associate venus with Satan, but you're free to try and prove some connection between venus/lucifer and Satan.
And in the context I've given three times now in this thread, the Bible only uses a reference to it to show the fall of the king of Babylon, it is used in a chapter that is insulting the Babylon empire - and as I've already also made explicit, Isaiah was written during the Israelite Babylonian captivity, so a chapter on the fall of the king of Babylon who had been oppressing the Israelites, makes entire sense - and in the overall narrative of the Old Testament itself too.
 






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Christianity is dualistic, it believes in Jesus/Satan. The only difference between gnosticism and mainstream Christianity there is that Christians call 'the god of this world' by the name of Satan, whereas gnostics identify it by other names (including Yahweh in some gnostic traditions).



Can you be more intelligent than the other Christians here and prove what you're claiming from the Bible itself?

So far it's been established that the Bible speaks of no deity, entity, demon, angel, or anything of the sort called "lucifer", and that the only passage in the whole Bible that mentions it by name uses it as a poetic analogy for the celebration of the fall of a Pagan king (whom lucifer/venus is analogized), of which the text emphasizes the notion of "God made the king of Babylon fall so that Israel will concur" etc.
As I highlighted in another post here, later in the chapter we also see allusions to the captivity of the Israelite with the Egyptians and Pharaoh, this all of course makes sense because the Israelites were in Babylonian captivity around the period that the book of Isaiah was written.
That's all fine, but I'm not really interested in arguing what the bible claims. It's not very consistent anyway, so it depends a lot on personal perspective.

The word "lucifer" is Latin, and the romans were only borrowing their terminology from ancient greek astrology. To go looking for its origins in the bible is backward. The ancient greek Phosphorous and Hesperus, respectively the light-bringing morning star, and the western/evening star, translate to Lucifer and Vesper in Latin. Even though they were thought of as separate "stars" at the time, both are actually the same planet, which we call Venus.
 






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That's all fine, but I'm not really interested in arguing what the bible claims. It's not very consistent anyway, so it depends a lot on personal perspective.
But this thread is about the claims that certain Christians make and seeing if their book even says what they claim. We are looking at a case were they are deliberately promoting ignorance.
This is about setting objective facts straight, to use their terminology, what they are promoting is "Unbiblical" (this is of course ironic for a group that think that everything unbiblical is 'satanic' while promoting beliefs that are objectively Unbiblical).

Lucifer is only a planet and it's fall is used as a metaphor for the fall of the Babylonian King. Case closed. There is no "lucifer is a fallen angel who rules the world" nonsense. I have massive problems when people aren't able to read a whole chapter to contextualize a verse that they want to take out of context and put into their own esiegetical fantasy. If there was any Biblical basis for such beliefs, then I would not make this thread.

The word "lucifer" is Latin, and the romans were only borrowing their terminology from ancient greek astrology. To go looking for its origins in the bible is backward. The ancient greek Phosphorous and Hesperus, respectively the light-bringing morning star, and the western/evening star, translates to Lucifer and Vesper in Latin. Even though they were thought of as separate "stars" at the time, both are actually the same planet, which we call Venus.
Yes, I agree and it was a popular and significant planet for a lot of reasons, those included.
 






Wigi

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@Infinityloop
Nor is there any reason given to associate venus with Satan, but you're free to try and prove some connection between venus/lucifer and Satan.
Well, i'm not really into luciferianism but i'm sure it might bother you that people actually worship lucifer if it's only Venus or a rock from your point of view.

I've already also made explicit, Isaiah was written during the Israelite Babylonian captivity, so a chapter on the fall of the king of Babylon who had been oppressing the Israelites, makes entire sense - and in the overall narrative of the Old Testament itself too.
Babylon is also mentioned in the NT
 






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