How have Christians come to interpret "Lucifer" as the devil?

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Seeing that everybody is obsessed with talking about some "Lucifer" on this forum at the moment. Lets unpack this and try to do some problem solving.

Lucifer means "Morning star" and is well known for being the latin word for the planet Venus. Aka a terrestrial body that orbits in our solar system.


But what the heck does this have to do with the devil?


Interestingly there is only one reference to the word "lucifer" in the entire Bible, which is contained in one verse within a poem in chapter 14 of the Book of Isaiah in the Tanakh (old testament).

Let's read that chapter, aye? why don't we? what does it say?


The Lord will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Foreigners will join them
and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And Israel will take possession of the nations
and make them male and female servants in the Lord’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.

On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”

The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star (lucifer), son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
Let the offspring of the wicked
never be mentioned again.
Prepare a place to slaughter his children
for the sins of their ancestors;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
“I will rise up against them,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
“I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,”
declares the Lord.
“I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
The Lord Almighty has sworn,

“Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will happen.
I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders.”
This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

This prophecy came in the year King Ahaz died:

Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.

Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”


No devil to be found there.
So this whole chapter is a polemical poem against the king of Babylon, who is in Isaiah 39 identified as being Merodach-Baladan II.

It is very interesting how far Christians will distort the texts they claim to believe in. Excuse me while I spit my drink out when you go around screaming with your "mi beblikal krish-chi-anity!" ;)
 






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Pan

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Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
529
Seeing that everybody is obsessed with talking about some "Lucifer" on this forum at the moment. Lets unpack this and try to do some problem solving.

Lucifer means "Morning star" and is well known for being the latin word for the planet Venus. Aka a terrestrial body that orbits in our solar system.


But what the heck does this have to do with the devil?


Interestingly there is only one reference to the word "lucifer" in the entire Bible, which is contained in one verse within a poem in chapter 14 of the Book of Isaiah in the Tanakh (old testament).

Let's read that chapter, aye? why don't we? what does it say?


The Lord will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Foreigners will join them
and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And Israel will take possession of the nations
and make them male and female servants in the Lord’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.

On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”

The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star (lucifer), son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
Let the offspring of the wicked
never be mentioned again.
Prepare a place to slaughter his children
for the sins of their ancestors;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
“I will rise up against them,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
“I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,”
declares the Lord.
“I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
The Lord Almighty has sworn,

“Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will happen.
I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders.”
This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

This prophecy came in the year King Ahaz died:

Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.

Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”


No devil to be found there.
So this whole chapter is a polemical poem against the king of Babylon, who is in Isaiah 39 identified as being Merodach-Baladan II.

It is very interesting how far Christians will distort the texts they claim to believe in. Excuse me while I spit my drink out when you go around screaming with your "mi beblikal krish-chi-anity!" ;)
Star Worship has always been associated with Babylon.

The “Star” the Babylonians worshipped was the Morning Star of Moloch.

E366E7DC-2B6F-4674-81F6-F6EF32D8FFCF.jpeg
 






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Messages
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Star Worship has always been associated with Babylon.

The “Star” the Babylonians worshipped was the Morning Star of Moloch.

View attachment 32233
Irrelevant post. Isaiah 14 is not about people that worship stars, it is about the king of babylon at the time of Isaiah. Re-read the post if you didn't understand.
It is clear that venus in this chapter (the only mention of lucifer in the bible) is using the falling of this star as the symbol of God overthrowing Babylon. It is a chapter about the superiority of the Israelite over neighboring Pagan civilizations (Babylon in specific here).

Read the chapter, it's not that difficult. So easy that it's posted word-for-word right above.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
9,295
2 Corinthians 11


13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

It would appear that those who wish to emulate Lucifer will share his fate.
 






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2 Corinthians 11


13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

It would appear that those who wish to emulate Lucifer will share his fate.
You bring up more problems with Protestant Christianity. An "angel of light" has nothing in relation to the verse in Isaiah 14, which likens Merodach-Baladan II to the falling star as a sign of God's and the Israelite's superiority over the Babylonians.
If I need to explain it to you in child's english, Isaiah 14 is saying that God kicked Merodach-Baladan II's (the one who the chapter is about, the one who Venus/Lucifer is used as an analogy of) butt. Historically we know that Babylon did fall and went through a lot of changed around that period.

If you would care to address the OP please, that may be a learning experience for you.

(Also, why are are you afraid of quoting entire chapters? why do you quote isolated verses?)
 






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Pan

Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
529
Seeing that everybody is obsessed with talking about some "Lucifer" on this forum at the moment. Lets unpack this and try to do some problem solving.

Lucifer means "Morning star" and is well known for being the latin word for the planet Venus. Aka a terrestrial body that orbits in our solar system.


But what the heck does this have to do with the devil?


Interestingly there is only one reference to the word "lucifer" in the entire Bible, which is contained in one verse within a poem in chapter 14 of the Book of Isaiah in the Tanakh (old testament).

Let's read that chapter, aye? why don't we? what does it say?


The Lord will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Foreigners will join them
and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And Israel will take possession of the nations
and make them male and female servants in the Lord’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.

On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”

The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star (lucifer), son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
Let the offspring of the wicked
never be mentioned again.
Prepare a place to slaughter his children
for the sins of their ancestors;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
“I will rise up against them,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
“I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,”
declares the Lord.
“I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
The Lord Almighty has sworn,

“Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will happen.
I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders.”
This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

This prophecy came in the year King Ahaz died:

Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.

Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”


No devil to be found there.
So this whole chapter is a polemical poem against the king of Babylon, who is in Isaiah 39 identified as being Merodach-Baladan II.

It is very interesting how far Christians will distort the texts they claim to believe in. Excuse me while I spit my drink out when you go around screaming with your "mi beblikal krish-chi-anity!" ;)
According to your post, “Venus” represents Lucifer as fallen from heaven. The fall of “Venus” symbolises the fall of Babylonian rule. “God kicking Venus’ butt” as you say.

You seem convinced that Lucifer and Venus are not Satan or Satanic. Are you suggesting that Lucifer is the real light and illumination of humanity and God is just a party pooper who is trying to impose narrow-minded Christian shackles on the talented and open-minded Lucifer?

Sounds very punk rock to me. Lucifer is the rebel. God is the stuffy, old parent.
 






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According to your post, “Venus” represents Lucifer as fallen from heaven.
Stop trolling. Venus/lucifer is a planet in the sky. You're purposefully playing dense here.

You seem convinced that Lucifer and Venus are not Satan or Satanic.
No, Lucifer isn't anything other than a planet in our solar system, a terrestrial body orbiting the sun.
And you still continue avoiding substantiating your claims that Venus has anything to do with "Satan"/"the devil".

Are you suggesting that Lucifer is the real light and illumination of humanity and God is just a party pooper who is trying to impose narrow-minded Christian shackles on the talented and open-minded Lucifer?
No, you're just deranged.
As I've already said.
 






Pan

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Joined
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Messages
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Stop trolling. Venus/lucifer is a planet in the sky. You're purposefully playing dense here.



No, Lucifer isn't anything other than a planet in our solar system, a terrestrial body orbiting the sun.
And you still continue avoiding substantiating your claims that Venus has anything to do with "Satan"/"the devil".



No, you're just deranged.
As I've already said.
Is Saturn “just a planet” too?

Lucifer being “just a planet” is a groundbreaking claim to make. I think it deserves a proper essay from you. You arent going to convince anyone by saying that “Lucifer isnt explicitly described as Satan in the Bible, therefore Lucifer is just an innocent planet.”

I’m not deranged. I’m just espousing mainstream orthodox Christian views.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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A parallel passage and another example of dual meaning, where there is an actual historic king who is addressed, but by whom attributes of Satan / Lucifer are attributed and unpacked.

 






Red Sky at Morning

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Satan has an earthly throne

Isaiah 14:4-12 says:

"...take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, ...How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:4-14)

The Bible is clear that Satan assumes an earthly throne at one location at a time. This is because Satan is not omnipresent like God; Satan can only be in one place at a time. In the time of Apostle John, Satan dwelt in Pergamos, a city given to cultic emperor worship and idolatry:

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." (Revelation 2:13)

Many commentators suppose that "Satan's seat" is figurative. However, since the Bible treats Satan as a very real person who was actually present with our Lord in the physical realm of the wilderness, there is no reason to suppose that the reference to "Satan's seat" in the physical city of Pergamos is figurative. Satan most likely strategically chose Pergamos as his headquarter in the late first century because of its close proximity to the earliest growing Christian churches. Satan undoubtedly tried to thwart the work of the Holy Spirit in the early churches.

Babylon, however, has been and will be Satan's main headquarter. It is at Babel (Babylon) that the first post-flood rebellion against God occurred (Genesis 11:1-9). In the future, the Antichrist will be associated with "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5). The statement that Babylon is "the mother" of abominations indicates that Babylon has been the source of earth's abominations, which leads to the conclusion that Babylon has always been Satan's city. Satan's future demise will begin with the fall of Babylon: "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils" (Revelation 18:2). The Bible cannot be any clearer that Babylon is Satan's city. How reasonable it is then to conclude that Satan is the king of Babylon.

It is not as popular today, however, to associate the figure in Isaiah 14:12 with Satan. Nowhere in the text of Isaiah does it say that this figure is Satan. However, nowhere in Genesis does it say that the Serpent is Satan. Yet, Christians agree that the Serpent is Satan, based on Revelation 12:9, 20:12. The Serpent is revealed in Genesis, the first book, and his true identity is speculated but unconfirmed by explicit scripture until Revelation, the last book. If we could make the Serpent/Satan connection based on other passages of scripture besides Genesis, it is certainly biblical to make the Lucifer/Satan connection based on other passages of scripture besides Isaiah. First, the fact that Babylon is Satan's city is undeniable. Second, the Lord Jesus Christ said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18). Third, the name "Lucifer," which means "Lightbearer," is consistent with Paul's description of Satan as an angel who can appear to be bright: "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14). When we connect the dots the picture becomes clear:

Satan is King of Babylon + Satan fell from heaven + Angel of light = Lucifer in Isaiah 14:2

I think you have it backwards!

You are thinking that the writers of scripture are alluding to when they are actually alluding from.
 






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A parallel passage and another example of dual meaning, where there is an actual historic king who is addressed, but by whom attributes of Satan / Lucifer are attributed and unpacked.

Do you care about the contexts that these books are written in or not?
 






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I think you have it backwards!

You are thinking that the writers of scripture are alluding to when they are actually alluding from.
No, you are a fan of anachronistic eisegesis, basically to use your own language as it was supposed to be used: What you're claiming is categorically unbiblical, not-Biblical, it is Abiblical, or even Antibiblical.
 






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LUCIFER: A PROBLEM FOR CHRISTIANITY
Author Unknown



The word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 presents a minor problem to mainstream Christianity. It becomes a much larger problem to Bible literalists, and becomes a huge obstacle for the claims of Mormonism. John J. Robinson in A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48 explains:

"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: ‘How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!’"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or “bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by King James I to translate the Bible into then current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and, ironically, the Prince of Darkness.

So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James Version of the Bible, who say “Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God."

Henry Neufeld (a Christian who comments on Biblical sticky issues) went on to say,

"This passage is often related to Satan, and a similar thought is expressed in Luke 10:18 by Jesus that was not its first meaning. Its primary meaning is given in Isaiah 14:4 which says that when Israel is restored they will "take up this taunt against the king of Babylon . . ." Verse 12 is a part of this taunt song. This passage refers first to the fall of that earthly king...

How does the confusion in translating this verse arise? The Hebrew of this passage reads: "heleyl, ben shachar" which can be literally translated "shining one, son of dawn." This phrase means, again literally, the planet Venus when it appears as a morning star. In the Septuagint, a 3rd century BCE translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek, it is translated as "heosphoros" which also means Venus as a morning star.

How did the translation "lucifer" arise? This word comes from Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Was Jerome in error? Not at all. In Latin at the time, "lucifer" actually meant Venus as a morning star. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded." Therefore, Lucifer wasn't equated with Satan until after Jerome. Jerome wasn't in error. Later Christians (and Mormons) were in equating "Lucifer" with "Satan".

So why is this problem to Christians? Christians now generally believe that Satan (or the Devil/Lucifer) is a “being” who has always existed. Therefore, they also think that the Jews of the Old Testament believed in this creature. The Isaiah scripture is used as proof (and has been used as such for hundreds of years now). As Elaine Pagels explains, the Christian concept of Satan (Devil/Lucifer) has evolved over the years and the early bible writers didn't believe in or teach such a doctrine.

The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan (Devil/Lucifer) is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.
 






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Here is something a Christian has to say about it:



It is sad, but nevertheless true, that on occasion Bible students attribute to God’s Word facts and concepts that it neither teaches nor advocates. These ill-advised beliefs run the entire gamut—from harmless misinterpretations to potentially soul-threatening false doctrines.

Although there are numerous examples from both categories that could be listed, perhaps one of the most popular misconceptions among Bible believers is that Satan also is designated as “Lucifer” within the pages of the Bible. What is the origin of the name Lucifer, what is its meaning, and is it a synonym for “Satan”? Here are the facts.

The word “Lucifer” is used in the King James Version only once, in Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” The Hebrew word translated “Lucifer” is helel (or heylel), from the root, hâlâl, meaning “to shine” or “to bear light.” Keil and Delitzsch noted that “t derives its name in other ancient languages also from its striking brilliancy, and is here called ben-shachar (son of the dawn)... (1982, 7:311). However, the KJV translators did not translate helel as Lucifer because of something inherent in the Hebrew term itself. Instead, they borrowed the name from Jerome’s translation of the Bible (A.D. 383-405) known as the Latin Vulgate. Jerome, likely believing that the term was describing the planet Venus, employed the Latin term “Lucifer” (“light-bearing”) to designate “the morning star” (Venus). Only later did the suggestion originate that Isaiah 14:12ff. was speaking of the devil. Eventually, the name Lucifer came to be synonymous with Satan. But is Satan “Lucifer”?

No, he is not. The context into which verse 12 fits begins in verse 4 where God told Isaiah to “take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and say, ‘How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!’” In his commentary on Isaiah, Albert Barnes explained that God’s wrath was kindled against the king because the ruler “intended not to acknowledge any superior either in heaven or earth, but designed that himself and his laws should be regarded as supreme” (1950, 1:272). The chest-pounding boast of the impudent potentate was:

I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High (vss. 13-14).
As a result of his egotistical self-deification, the pagan monarch eventually would experience both the collapse of his kingdom and the loss of his life—an ignominious end that is described in vivid and powerful terms. “Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming,” the prophet proclaimed to the once-powerful king. And when the ruler finally descends into his eternal grave, captives of that hidden realm will taunt him by saying, “Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?” (vs. 16). He is denominated as a “man” (vs. 16) who would die in disrepute and whose body would be buried, not in a king’s sarcophagus, but in pits reserved for the downtrodden masses (vss. 19-20). Worms would eat his body, and hedgehogs would trample his grave (vss. 11,23).

It was in this context that Isaiah referred to the king of Babylon as “the morning star” (“son of the morning”; “son of the dawn”) to depict the once-shining-but-now-dimmed, once-lofty-but-now-diminished, status of the (soon to be former) ruler. In his Bible Commentary, E.M. Zerr observed that such phrases were “...used figuratively in this verse to symbolize the dignity and splendor of the Babylonian monarch. His complete overthrow was likened to the falling of the morning star” (1954, 3:265). This kind of phraseology should not be surprising since “n the O.T., the demise of corrupt national powers is frequently depicted under the imagery of falling heavenly luminaries (cf. Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7), hence, quite appropriately in this context the Babylonian monarch is described as a fallen star [cf. ASV]” (Jackson, 1987, 23:15).

Nowhere within the context of Isaiah 14, however, is Satan depicted as Lucifer. In fact, quite the opposite is true. In his commentary on Isaiah, Burton Coffman wrote: “We are glad that our version (ASV) leaves the word Lucifer out of this rendition, because...Satan does not enter into this passage as a subject at all” (1990, p. 141). The Babylonian ruler was to die and be buried—fates neither of which Satan is destined to endure. The king was called “a man” whose body was to be eaten by worms, but Satan, as a spirit, has no physical body. The monarch lived in and abided over a “golden city” (vs. 4), but Satan is the monarch of a kingdom of spiritual darkness (cf. Ephesians 6:12). And so on.

The context presented in Isaiah 14:4-16 not only does not portray Satan as Lucifer, but actually militates against it. Keil and Delitzsch firmly proclaimed that “Lucifer,” as a synonym, “is a perfectly appropriate one for the king of Babel, on account of the early date of the Babylonian culture, which reached back as far as the grey twilight of primeval times, and also because of its predominate astrological character” (1982, p. 312). They then correctly concluded that “Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage...without any warrant whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic leaders” (pp. 312-313).
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I do find it interesting that both Freemasons and Luciferian religions embrace dualism - the weaving together of the black and the white.

42AC3E6F-D26F-4735-9ADC-1F3B46B1AB52.jpeg

If this signature is a glimpse into the nature of the “enemy of our souls”, it seems that the Biblical presentation Ha’ Satan of accuser and seducer is accurate.
 






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I do find it interesting that both Freemasons and Luciferian religions embrace dualism - the weaving together of the black and the white.

View attachment 32237

If this signature is a glimpse into the nature of the “enemy of our souls”, it seems that the Biblical presentation Ha’ Satan of accuser and seducer is accurate.
None of this has anything at all to do with this thread whatsoever, period.

Please stop avoiding talking about Isaiah 14. If you have nothing to say here then just don't post.


Here @Red Sky at Morning I'll repost the entire chapter again for you to read:


The Lord will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Foreigners will join them
and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And Israel will take possession of the nations
and make them male and female servants in the Lord’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.

On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”

The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star (lucifer), son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,

you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
Let the offspring of the wicked
never be mentioned again.
Prepare a place to slaughter his children
for the sins of their ancestors;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
“I will rise up against them,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
“I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,”
declares the Lord.
“I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,”
declares the Lord Almighty.
The Lord Almighty has sworn,

“Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will happen.
I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders.”
This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

This prophecy came in the year King Ahaz died:

Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.
Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”

 






Red Sky at Morning

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If you can’t see that this passage has dual application and fulfilment, you are not at the point to escape the deception yet.


All good deceptions come with a good cover story, the trick being to present something plausible enough to get their message past the defences without blowing it!

1E52E5B4-461F-4A90-93D0-DCE370557C3C.jpeg
 






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If you can’t see that this passage has dual application and fulfilment, you are not at the point to escape the deception yet.


All good deceptions come with a good cover story, the trick being to present something plausible enough to get their message past the defences without blowing it!
Once again vague comments with no indication of relevance. Please analyze Isaiah 14 for us and show us how it isn't about the King that it clearly and eloquently presents itself to be about.
 






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As for "dual fulfillment" well, there is the opposite of that which is a double reference.

In this passage we can see it alluding to the time of Moses and the Israelites in Egypt being of a similar situation in Babylon, within this passage from Isaiah 14:

“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
 






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