High watch times

Lisa

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#61
The distinctness of “the Church” and Israel.
Israel is still God’s Chosen People and the church is the grafted in to the cultivated olive tree

The timing of “The Kingdom” - is it now, established by the body conquering the “seven mountains of influence” or is it to be established by Jesus during the Millennium.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” His kingdom is in the Millennium.

Your understanding of the relationship between “The Gospel of the Kingdom” and the “Gospel of Grace”
Not sure what your’e meaning here.

Whether you take an Amillennial, Premillennial or even a Postmillenial view (I have a “Post” friend who has some unique views!)
Not sure which one I am because I can never remember their meaning. Same goes for the dispensational thing.
 





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Lisa

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#62
Well @Lisa - if you are right, there is no rush to look into them now, and if I’m right, by the time you get round to it you may have Paul helping to talk you through some of the more abstract ideas!

Perhaps we can pick this up again soon - past midnight my time zone so I’m calling it a day!
Have a good night, Red...I’m running out of time as well.
 





Lisa

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#63
@Red Sky at Morning, I went through the trouble to answer your questions that you said were needed to continue a conversation with me about the rapture..and I’m still waiting..I haven’t forgotten...but it seems you may have forgotten about this?

Israel is still God’s Chosen People and the church is the grafted in to the cultivated olive tree


John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” His kingdom is in the Millennium.


Not sure what your’e meaning here.


Not sure which one I am because I can never remember their meaning. Same goes for the dispensational thing.
 





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#64
@Red Sky at Morning, I went through the trouble to answer your questions that you said were needed to continue a conversation with me about the rapture..and I’m still waiting..I haven’t forgotten...but it seems you may have forgotten about this?
Not at all - I was just thinking about the topic actually. How would you like to examine the subject (we actually share the same position on both the distinctness of Israel and the Church, and the fact that the Millennium is yet to come).
 





Lisa

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#65
Not at all - I was just thinking about the topic actually. How would you like to examine the subject (we actually share the same position on both the distinctness of Israel and the Church, and the fact that the Millennium is yet to come).
Well, you were the one who needed to know all that to continue the discussion, so I was waiting on you to take what you needed from my answers and continue.
 





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#66
Well, you were the one who needed to know all that to continue the discussion, so I was waiting on you to take what you needed from my answers and continue.
Well, given that we share certain convictions, who do you think the 24 Elders represent in Revelation 4 and 5?

Believe it or not, quite a lot hinges on it!

A short talk in slightly 80’s style makes the point. It comes down to “us” or “them”...


 





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#67
@Lisa

The other think a number of people have noticed is that there are distinct differences between the logical implications of verses that relate the the Rapture and the Second Coming...

F50C8C8C-F59B-4603-B43D-5F7EC85D8AF3.jpeg

I find it interesting that these differences emerge in the letter to the Thessalonians from the information the Lord gave to Paul (perhaps when he was shown certain things after being caught up)?

2 Corinthians 12

Paul's Revelation
1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

This would suggest to me that the Rapture was a “mystery” from the perspective of Matthew 24, as was the Gospel to the Gentiles. Btw - I share these in humility, not to score any points. It’s just where my thinking on the subject has brought me to...
 





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Lisa

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#68
@Lisa

The other think a number of people have noticed is that there are distinct differences between the logical implications of verses that relate the the Rapture and the Second Coming...

View attachment 24073

I find it interesting that these differences emerge in the letter to the Thessalonians from the information the Lord gave to Paul (perhaps when he was shown certain things after being caught up)?

2 Corinthians 12

Paul's Revelation

1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

This would suggest to me that the Rapture was a “mystery” from the perspective of Matthew 24, as was the Gospel to the Gentiles.
I think you ruin things for yourself by brining in 2 Corinthians’s 12:1-6 honestly. I don’t believe he was raptured at all there. I thought he mentioned that to talk about why he has a thorn in his flesh, because otherwise he could boast in himself, he went to heaven and saw really awesome things.

I’ll have to think and pray about the elders and who they might be, but I think that’s just gonna be a case of God didn’t tell us and we don’t know, and if that’s the case, then I don’t see the correlation.

Also, bringing up the elders knowing who the multitude are later, is a better bet on post or pre wrath because obviously those people weren’t there when John first got there and they are suddenly up in heaven later on...
 





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#69
I think you ruin things for yourself by brining in 2 Corinthians’s 12:1-6 honestly. I don’t believe he was raptured at all there. I thought he mentioned that to talk about why he has a thorn in his flesh, because otherwise he could boast in himself, he went to heaven and saw really awesome things.

I’ll have to think and pray about the elders and who they might be, but I think that’s just gonna be a case of God didn’t tell us and we don’t know, and if that’s the case, then I don’t see the correlation.

Also, bringing up the elders knowing who the multitude are later, is a better bet on post or pre wrath because obviously those people weren’t there when John first got there and they are suddenly up in heaven later on...
I hadn’t really thought about it in terms of Paul being Raptured as much as being given extra insight into certain things that had hitherto been “mysteries”

I appreciate that it’s a complex one to ponder - if it was absolutely clear cut, I guess the genuine Christians on both sides of the debate would have come to a unified position by now...
 





Lisa

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#72
@Red Sky at Morning...I went and got all the verses pertaining to the elders. I don’t believe that the elders are part of the ones that are raptured, because they have been and are in the presence of God worshipping Him. The first time we see the elders they are worshipping God with the 4 living creatures but there wasn’t anyone else around.

Revelation‬ ‭4:2-4, 10-11‬ ‭​
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.
the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.

‭‭
Revelation‬ ‭5:6-14‬ ‭​
And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before th Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they *sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
‭‭

In Revelation 6 we hear about the seals and the 5th seal is an interesting seal in which it talks about Christian martyrs...
Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.​

Being that this is in Revelation and Revelation are all about the end times, I believe that these martyrs are the ones in the tribulation, because we have to be here as a testimony to people, they don’t just keep on with the lawlessness without God keeping people here to tell them about sin and about salvation.
Matthew 24:14
This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

And again..
Mark 13:9-13,
for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name,


Jesus says that unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved, but for the sake of the elect, He shortened the days.
Mark 13:20
Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no live would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

If we aren’t still on the earth for the tribulation, then why shorten the days? That would make no sense..then you have this verse that tells us we are not destined for wrath, which is why I believe that we will be on the earth until the wrath of God where we will be giving our testimonies and being martyred for the cause of Christ.
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭
For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.​


I also want to mention about enduring to the end to be saved..and I think that has everything to do with the end times and we will have to endure to our ends at least, who knows how far we will make it individually, but we will have to endure to be raptured. Because we are already saved by grace through faith, so this could only mean that we will be physically saved if we endure to the end. We also read in Revelation when John is being told about the church that the saint are often told to persevere and endure..and I believe that its also a warning to us that we will be in for some hardship, if not death for the cause of Christ.
Matthew 24:13
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Mark 13:27
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.​


I think of Moses who had to endure ridicule from the peoples around him while he built the ark and that God only closed the door on the ark when the rain’s came, His wrath and I think that is a similarity that we should consider that we will be here until God’s wrath begins.
Matthew 24:37-40
For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then we see in Revelation 7, that after the seals were opened and an interval in heaven then there is a great multitude of people standing there. That’s when John ask who are all these people and the elders then tell him that they came out of the great tribulation.
Revelation‬ ‭7:9-16​
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “ Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “ A men, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. .
‭‭

In 1 Thessalonians we see that people who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord..also backs up people enduring to the end..but they aren’t being picked up until the Lord returns and Jesus only returns once...
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:13-18‬
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.​


And Jesus confirms this.
Matthew 24:30-31
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


In the end, I think that one must be mindful that God doesn’t always take His people out of hard times, but leaves them there to test us and for His glory. And I think that when you read through the Bible you can see that and not that He removes people before the going gets tough. Even these three men knew that....

Daniel‬ ‭3:16-18‬ ‭
“Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.
‭‭

Edit: Sorry for the length, it could not be helped.
 





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#73
@Red Sky at Morning...I went and got all the verses pertaining to the elders. I don’t believe that the elders are part of the ones that are raptured, because they have been and are in the presence of God worshipping Him. The first time we see the elders they are worshipping God with the 4 living creatures but there wasn’t anyone else around.

Revelation‬ ‭4:2-4, 10-11‬ ‭​
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.
the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.

‭‭
Revelation‬ ‭5:6-14‬ ‭​
And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before th Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they *sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
‭‭

In Revelation 6 we hear about the seals and the 5th seal is an interesting seal in which it talks about Christian martyrs...
Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭​

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.​

Being that this is in Revelation and Revelation are all about the end times, I believe that these martyrs are the ones in the tribulation, because we have to be here as a testimony to people, they don’t just keep on with the lawlessness without God keeping people here to tell them about sin and about salvation.
Matthew 24:14​

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

And again..
Mark 13:9-13,​

for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name,


Jesus says that unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved, but for the sake of the elect, He shortened the days.
Mark 13:20​

Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no live would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

If we aren’t still on the earth for the tribulation, then why shorten the days? That would make no sense..then you have this verse that tells us we are not destined for wrath, which is why I believe that we will be on the earth until the wrath of God where we will be giving our testimonies and being martyred for the cause of Christ.
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭​

For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.​


I also want to mention about enduring to the end to be saved..and I think that has everything to do with the end times and we will have to endure to our ends at least, who knows how far we will make it individually, but we will have to endure to be raptured. Because we are already saved by grace through faith, so this could only mean that we will be physically saved if we endure to the end. We also read in Revelation when John is being told about the church that the saint are often told to persevere and endure..and I believe that its also a warning to us that we will be in for some hardship, if not death for the cause of Christ.
Matthew 24:13​

But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mark 13:27​

You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭​

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.​


I think of Moses who had to endure ridicule from the peoples around him while he built the ark and that God only closed the door on the ark when the rain’s came, His wrath and I think that is a similarity that we should consider that we will be here until God’s wrath begins.
Matthew 24:37-40​

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then we see in Revelation 7, that after the seals were opened and an interval in heaven then there is a great multitude of people standing there. That’s when John ask who are all these people and the elders then tell him that they came out of the great tribulation.
Revelation‬ ‭7:9-16​
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “ Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “ A men, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. .
‭‭

In 1 Thessalonians we see that people who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord..also backs up people enduring to the end..but they aren’t being picked up until the Lord returns and Jesus only returns once...
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:13-18‬​

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.​


And Jesus confirms this.
Matthew 24:30-31​

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


In the end, I think that one must be mindful that God doesn’t always take His people out of hard times, but leaves them there to test us and for His glory. And I think that when you read through the Bible you can see that and not that He removes people before the going gets tough. Even these three men knew that....

Daniel‬ ‭3:16-18‬ ‭​

“Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.
‭‭

Edit: Sorry for the length, it could not be helped.
A complex post deserves a complex response - I will have a ponder and come back to you on it (at least on some points) at some stage tomorrow....
 





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#75

I wonder...

Revelation 12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 





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#77
Will the year 2019 be a significant year?

From T.W.Tranm

THE biblical calendar date Av 9 (Tisha B’Av), corresponding to August 11 in 2019, marks the anniversary of the destruction of the First Temple in 587 BC.

The Temple lay in ruins until the Jews returned and began to rebuild it after the 70-years of exile in Babylon (Jer. 29).

Uncannily, the Second Temple would also be destroyed on the date of Av 9, in 70 AD. The ensuing exile, which would last for nearly two millennia, was, like the former, followed by a Jewish return to the Land—the one that occurred in 1948.

Scripture specifies that the second return to the Land, when God “again” brings His people back from captivity, is to be followed by an unprecedented time of judgment called Jacob’s Trouble:

“The days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will bring again my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess, says the LORD. These are the words the LORD spoke concerning Israel and Judah … Cries of fear are heard—terror, not peace. Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it” (Jer. 30: 3-7).

In view of the remarkable and well-documented symmetry found throughout Scripture, it’s interesting to note the mirror-imaging of prophetic events. In ancient times, Israel’s judgment was followed by a return. In the last days, the return is followed by judgment:

Judgment Return ǀ Return Judgment

What’s more, the second return, like the first, is connected to a period of 70 years. Jesus says the generation who sees the budding of the “fig tree,” i.e. Israel’s final homecoming, will see His return and ultimate redemption at the end of the age (Matt. 24:32-34). Scripture defines a typical generation as 70 years (Ps. 90:10).

Is it possible that the redemption of the fig-tree generation will, as in the days of Babylon, occur after a 70-year period?

Making all of this more interesting, Daniel’s 70-weeks prophecy reveals how many weeks of years will pass before Messiah comes:

“From the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince comes shall be seven weeks [49 years]...” (Dan. 9:25).

The Jews began to rebuild Jerusalem for the second time in 1969.

We are thus presently, in August 2019, in the harvest season after the 49th year since Jerusalem’s restoration began. This is significant because God typically acts after the end-year specified in prophetic timelines. For instance, the Jews were redeemed from Babylon “after” the 70th year (Jer. 29:10). Messiah was crucified “after” the 62 weeks, or 434th year (Dan. 9:26).

And so summer 2019 not only marks the harvest season following Israel’s 70th year, related to the 70-year timelines in Jeremiah and Matthew, it also marks the harvest season following Jerusalem’s 49th year, related to Daniel’s countdown to Messiah!

That the 70/49 timelines converge on the same year is even more remarkable when we consider how the respective prophecies—Jeremiah’s 70 years and Daniel’s 70 weeks—are directly linked in Scripture. The 70-weeks prophecy was given to Daniel, a captive in Babylon, as the 70 years of exile were ending (Dan. 9). Daniel’s weeks-countdown to Messiah would commence when the exiled Jews returned to Jerusalem and began rebuilding (Dan. 9:25). Thus, Daniels’ 70-weeks timeline picks up precisely where Jeremiah’s 70-years timeline leaves off.

God always gives His people an “expected end”—a determinable point in time by which redemption will be realized (Jer. 29:11; Gen. 6:3; 15:13; Matt. 24:32-34).

While Scripture is clear that no one knows the day, the convergence of signs and timelines in 2019 is confirmation that it is near.

. . .

NOTES:

1. Jeremiah describes two returns to Jerusalem, one in the days of Babylon and one before the time of Jacob’s Trouble:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/jeremiah-30-3.html

2. Daniel 9:25 full verse: “From the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince comes shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times.”

The two sets of weeks are believed to be indicative of the two comings of Messiah—a first coming and a return. The sixty-two weeks, counted from the first return to Jerusalem, point to Messiah’s first coming when He was put to death for our sins (v.26). The seven weeks, counted from the second return to Jerusalem, point to His second coming as Ruler (v. 25).

That the 70-weeks prophecy cryptically reveals the timing of both of Messiah’s comings explains why Gabriel prefaces the prophecy: “Listen carefully so that you can understand the meaning of the vision” (Dan. 9:23 NLT).

3. Daniel’s 70-weeks prophecy is similar to Jeremiah’s 70-years prophecy in that both are based on a period of “70,” both center on a return to Jerusalem, and both provide an “expected end,” or year of redemption.
 





Joined
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#78
By T.W. Tramm

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“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:26-29).
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PEOPLE have been buying, selling, planting, and building since the dawn of time. So why does Jesus emphasize that these things will be happening when Judgment Day arrives?

I believe the Lord makes note of the economy in the compendium of God’s Word because it will be during a particularly prosperous period, a time in which more and larger transactions will be occurring than ever before, when He returns.

This describes our world today.

Economies depend on rampant consumerism. Technology has enabled financial transactions at a “click.” Goods are cheap and disposable, and a growing spiritual vacuum has most of us pursuing the material to fill the void.

The U.S economy is on a roll like never before. The stock market has just seen its longest Bull Run in history, and unemployment is at its lowest in 50 years.

As summer 2019 winds down, however, change is in the air.

The threat of a major trade war between the U.S. and China, as well as uncertainty around Britain’s planned departure from the European Union in October, have the IMF’s chief economist acknowledging that this is an especially “delicate moment” for the global economy.

On August 14, the 2-year and 10-year Treasury yields inverted, a precursor of every U.S. recession during the last half century.

The corresponding yield curve in the U.K followed suit.

Meanwhile, countries with some of the largest economies, including Germany, Italy, France, and Japan, appear to be teetering on the brink of a recession.

Experts say it’s not a matter of “if” the current bubble bursts but “when.” When it does, unprecedented debt could add fuel to the fire and turn a standard recession into a sharp one. In the event of a sharp recession, notes investment analyst Joe Chidley, “Corporate and some government default risk could spike. A run on credit could follow, which could spark a liquidity crisis where nobody wants to buy anything.”

Thus, the days of unbridled consumerism may come to an abrupt and sore end.

That a convergence of factors may be signaling the conclusion of an unequaled era of prosperity has profound prophetic implications because if the days of “buying, selling, planting and building” are nearing an end, how much nearer might the Lord’s return be?

. . .

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/perspectives/global-recession-bond-yield-inversion/index.html

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/global-recession-china-germany-uk-italy-japan

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/d...wth-concerns-yield-curve-inversion-2019-08-14

https://beta.canada.com/investing/i...wcm/75c9fd11-8dcf-47e7-8bc8-32b7d69dba05/amp/