Hell on Earth?

Mr.Grieves

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A recent conversation here has made me curious about where the religiously minded come down on the ethics of torture, particularly of the 'eternal' variety. God, most who believe in such things would feel, is entitled and justified in subjecting people to eternal torment. If, however, a device or system were developed which allowed authorities to subject the most vile of criminals to seemingly eternal torment... If, say, a terrible murderer could be inexpensively and indefinitely frozen in a dream-state where he finds himself in perpetual agony and despair, would you support such an endeavor?
 

Thunderian

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I think it would certainly make people think twice before committing crimes that would result in such a sentence. I don't believe prison is a strong enough deterrent.
 

Lisa

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I think it would certainly make people think twice before committing crimes that would result in such a sentence. I don't believe prison is a strong enough deterrent.
Maybe prison done differently would be a better deterrent? Now, its like daycare, a little light on the punishing.
 

Lisa

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If, however, a device or system were developed which allowed authorities to subject the most vile of criminals to seemingly eternal torment..
God has already devised such a place...
Perhaps a better thing would be punishing people and it being actual punishment not daycare?
 

Lisa

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Should the focus of incarceration be on punishment over rehabilitation?
Well, punishment is a good start...
When you are punished by your parents, you learn that what you did was bad and hopefully you don’t do it again, right?

How does one begin to rehabilitate people who don’t take responsibility for the wrongs they commit?
 

Mr.Grieves

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I don’t think that man has that responsibility.
So yes, you'd oppose such a device being used on prisoners guilty of heinous crimes?

Well, punishment is a good start...
When you are punished by your parents, you learn that what you did was bad and hopefully you don’t do it again, right?
My parents punishments consisted of confinement and restrictions. If I did something bad, I was confined to my room, and my access to sources of entertainment and comfort were restricted for a given period of time. Indeed, I did learn my lesson in this way, and modified my behavior.They certainly didn't subject me to pain and torment, and had they, I'd probably have learned a very different lesson indeed.

How does one begin to rehabilitate people who don’t take responsibility for the wrongs they commit?
That's an interesting question, given not all criminals fail to take responsibility for their crimes. Some are quite willing to own up to their deeds, but doing so affords them no special treatment or consideration. Some people who commit the most heinous crimes literally aren't responsible for their actions, such as Vincent Weiguang Lee, an undiagnosed schizophrenic who in a psychotic episode beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on the grey-hound bus he was taking. By many standards of justice this man would deserve the severest possible punishment, but because he had no idea where he was, who he was, what he was doing or why he was doing it, he was deemed not criminally responsible and sent for psychiatric treatment instead. The psychiatric treatment took, he satisfied his doctors that he'd regained his sense of reality and was no longer a public danger, and so he was released from his maximum security psychiatric facility and is now essentially a free man. A grave injustice in the eyes of some, the morally responsible thing to do in the eyes of others.
 

Lisa

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Yes, I’m not in favor of that kind of punishment...again I don’t believe man has that kind of responsibility.

Well, I surely am not responsible for crime and punishment...I would think it is a hard job because some people accept what they’ve done, or are rehabilitated, but the majority, if the prison population is any indication, proves that most do not. What to do with those? Punishment that doesn’t include tv, weight lifting and whatever else they allow. I don’t know how you would be able to introduce stronger punishments in a system already weak.
 

Kung Fu

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I don’t think people are tortured in hell for eternity. It’s just a permanent punishment, death.
I don't understand. How can you believe that people aren't tortured in Hell for eternity but yet it also be a permanent punishment? Is there another Trinity within Christianity I'm not aware of lol?
 

Aero

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If, say, a terrible murderer could be inexpensively and indefinitely frozen in a dream-state where he finds himself in perpetual agony and despair, would you support such an endeavor?
I wouldn't just support it. I would encourage it. I might even request to be the button man.

Of course this would have to be someone truly guilty, and beyond rehab. Which I think is a rare person. Most people can be taught not to be a scumbag. But that's the real problem. Everyone doesn't learn the same way. Like some people learn better by hearing, and some by visuals. Some people literally can't learn anything without hands on practice. So there's a specialized type of knowledge you need to rehabilitate people. You actually have to do it right, or you are making the problem worse.
 

Violette

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I don't understand. How can you believe that people aren't tortured in Hell for eternity but yet it also be a permanent punishment? Is there another Trinity within Christianity I'm not aware of lol?
Maybe I worded my thoughts incorrectly. I think everyone is punished for their sins accordingly. The wages of sin is death and death is permanent.
 

Todd

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Well, punishment is a good start...
When you are punished by your parents, you learn that what you did was bad and hopefully you don’t do it again, right?
And that is the point. The purpose of punishment is correction. Unfortunately we as parents and we as society have not figured out how to make our punishment and correction “take” 100% of the time.

The idea of Eternal Torment is basically saying God is like us and doesn’t know how to make his punishment and correction take.

All the more reason for anyone who claims to believe in an all powerful and loving God to deny the doctrine of Eternal Torment.
 

Mr.Grieves

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I don’t think people are tortured in hell for eternity. It’s just a permanent punishment, death.
There is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire.
I don't understand. How can you believe that people aren't tortured in Hell for eternity but yet it also be a permanent punishment? Is there another Trinity within Christianity I'm not aware of lol?
speaking as an outsider, I find the notion of 'Hell' as simply being 'perma-death' rather more sensible and fair a notion, and one that would make the Christian God seem far less brutal and unreasonable a figure. Providing an afterlife to your adherents and simply failing to provide one for your detractors seems- in my meaningless mortal opinion obviously- significantly more sane and benign than a flaming lake of eternal damnation in which even toddlers can find themselves unceremoniously chucked.
 
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