"Hebrew Israelite" theology discussed...

[TokiEl]

So what would have happened to gentiles if Jews accepted Jesus as their messiah ?

There would be no Salvation if the Jews accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

We would all have to stand before a righteous God and be judged according to our thoughts words and works.

As it is the Son of God paid in full for our transgressions and so we can repent and receive forgiveness for sins.

 

[Serveto]

Yes and so it doesn't make any sense for Christians to accuse Jews of Deicide.

We ought to be eternally grateful for the stubborn Jews who in collusion with the Romans spilled the atoning blood of God.

And as your verse shows they even spoke blood rain blessings upon their souls.

So God took cruel human intent and act and turned it into Salvation.

Is it safe to say, in other words, that the Jewish religious elites did the right thing by wrongly crucifying Jesus? I mean, really, is there no end to Christian paradoxes ?

 

[TokiEl]

Is it safe to say, in other words, that the Jewish religious elites did the right thing by wrongly crucifying Jesus? I mean, really, is there no end to Christian paradoxes ?

Well it was God's plan of Salvation all along and so they just played the part God gave them.

 

[Vytas]

There would be no Salvation if the Jews accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

We would all have to stand before a righteous God and be judged according to our thoughts words and works.

As it is the Son of God paid in full for our transgressions and so we can repent and receive forgiveness for sins.

Thats the answer i was hoping for, because that idea levitate in the air here unspoken... It's absolutely crazy, not much more crazy as your statement above that we should be thankful jews for a sin. That goes against everything Jesus teaches, and from moral view point makes zero sense.

 

[Kung Fu]

I mean, really, is there no end to Christian paradoxes ?

Tell me about it

 

[TokiEl]

Thats the answer i was hoping for, because that idea levitate in the air here unspoken... It's absolutely crazy, not much more crazy as your statement above that we should be thankful jews for a sin. That goes against everything Jesus teaches, and from moral view point makes zero sense.

Christians used to persecute Jews for killing God. That is insane !

The Scriptures are clear that God had to spill His blood to atone for our sins.

And so God took cruel human intent and act and turned it into something good.

 

[Vytas]

Is it safe to say, in other words, that the Jewish religious elites did the right thing by wrongly crucifying Jesus? I mean, really, is there no end to Christian paradoxes ?

No it's not safe you may get a punch
Seriously now, jews elites condemned themselves to hell. Let me paraphrase you...It safe to say that christians profit from other human beings misfortunes...While some people would happily agree with that statement. It doesn't have anything to do with reality... And then Jesus said go to all nations and condemn people to hell that you may be saved...

 

[Vytas]

Christians used to persecute Jews for killing God. That is insane !

The Scriptures are clear that God had to spill His blood to atone for our sins.

And so God took cruel human intent and act and turned it into something good.

I never heard of it. While it's possible some fanatics did it. What it has to do with topic at hand?
Oh so now it's for our sins, and here i thought it was originally meant for Israelites sins...Getting confused now...
It wasn't human intent...never was...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Romans 8

"28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Can of worms alert!!!!

Foreknowledge, free will, predestination...

As soon as you apply time bound human logic to Gods plans it all gets a bit messy!

 

[TokiEl]

I never heard of it. While it's possible some fanatics did it. What it has to do with topic at hand?
Oh so now it's for our sins, and here i thought it was originally meant for Israelites sins...Getting confused now...
It wasn't human intent...never was...

You never heard of it because you were not around during the Middle Ages...

Are you ok ?

 

[Vytas]

Romans 8
Can of worms alert!!!!

There is one small barely alive worm in that can... You reference to romans 11 was good enough to answer everything... One has to read i suppose...

 

[Vytas]

You never heard of it because you were not around during the Middle Ages...

Are you ok ?

What kind of answer is that?

 

[TokiEl]

What kind of answer is that?

You used to be a bit more coherent before.

 

[Damien50]

@Serveto If we were to examine the purpose of Israel and the subsequent purpose of Christ they were in a way tasked with the same objective. Israel failed to minister to the world and maintain their priestly order. Christ sent his disciples and beyond to minister to the world in place of Israel who failed and rejected the word of God. Salvation we inevitable whether through Israel or through Christ it was necessary for reconciliation and restoration.

 

[Damien50]

So what would have happened to gentiles if Jews accepted Jesus as their messiah ?

Israel would have ministered to the world and brought everyone back to God.

 

[Vytas]

Israel would have ministered to the world and brought everyone back to God.

Yeah thats sounds like more plausible turn of events...

 

[Damien50]

Yeah thats sounds like more plausible turn of events...

Looking at it from my perspective, we are grafted in upon acceptance of Christ. We are uninitiated into the priestly order of Melchizzedek and subsequently tasked with reconciling the world to God via deliverance of the gospels. Our bodies are the temples and the sacrifice Christ. We essentially take on the task initially given to Israel.

 

[KoncreteMind]

@Yahda, @KoncreteMind and others ...

Just out of curiosity, and not because I take a convinced position on the matter, I wonder how y'all interpret this prophecy from Deuteronomy:

"The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."​

(Deut 18:15-18)​

Some Christians and Muslims have been notoriously playing tug-of-war for 1,400 (+/-) years, claiming that it refers to Jesus and Muhammad respectively, but I understand that Judaism, and, I presume, various forms of HI(ism) vote "none of the above." My question, then, is this: has this prophecy been fulfilled, and, if so, by whom and when?

Imo it's referring to Joshua. It can't be Mohammed since it says the prophet will be raised from the Israelites, and Jesus just seems to be an amalgamation of different people in the OT. And furthermore he didn't deliver anyone from their captivity or to a new safety but simply said : "I got y'all when I get back" (Paraphrased of course). Ironically Joshua also had 12 disciples.

 

[Yahda]

@Yahda, @KoncreteMind and others ...

Just out of curiosity, and not because I take a convinced position on the matter, I wonder how y'all interpret this prophecy from Deuteronomy:

"The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."​

(Deut 18:15-18)​

Some Christians and Muslims have been notoriously playing tug-of-war for 1,400 (+/-) years, claiming that it refers to Jesus and Muhammad respectively, but I understand that Judaism, and, I presume, various forms of HI(ism) vote "none of the above." My question, then, is this: has this prophecy been fulfilled, and, if so, by whom and when?

That prophecy was spoken of before we were introduced to Joshua, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, Hosea etc etc......not to mention we are still waiting on Elijah. That’s like no other in itself. The return of a past prophet. Anyway It could have been, or it could be anyone.

The first thing you should know is that all prophets spoke what “thus said the Lord”. Something pronounced “co-amar-Yahawah”

I think you should study how all the prophets of The Most High God communicated.....now compare that to “other “ apostles, and books.....they do not have that same divine inspiration whatsoever.

 

[Yahda]

Double post. Sorry.