Hard drugs and The New World Order

Mr.Anderson

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@Damien50 to answer your question of why PEDs are forbidden, one which actually is a pretty good because I remember once a colleague of mine (he is not a pharmacist, he's a biomedic. Close enough) back in 2009~2010 at the beggining of pharmacy school asked me why PED should be forbidden. His argument was that if the drugs were avaiable to everyone, then all of them would be in the same level, so it would not be unfair.

I'll not lie, and today is a rare day were i'm not feeling lazy to write, his argument was a good one. Back then I had no arguments to conclusively answer him, but after some time in college and a bit more time after that I got a few points I'd like to show:

PEDs are everywhere. From the coffee in the morning to some dude studying under the effects of methylfenidate and back in the first olympics were some runner would eat some herb and run as fast as an arrow. So, if they are so common why we think they are unhetical?

Well, since the topic was sports, we'll limit it to just this part. Let us get to the health issue first. Some might argue that under medical supervision a cycle is OK but there are various things you should consider.

1) I'll call PEDs to increase muscle mass as bombs or poison, because that's how they are called here in Brazil. You take a cycle, increase your muscle mass, spend some time, you start to lose some mass or cycle again to maintain what you already have and so on nice and steady. The problem is your body adapts to this because after all you're overclocking your body so your homones go down. The more you do this the more likely it is to your body to stop producing endogenous hormones. And it doesn't even take that much, a simple cup of coffe in the morning per example is enough to cause addiction and give you a nasty headache. A hangover is another kind of withrawal syndrome.

2) Assuming your hormones don't dissapear in oblivion, you're overclocking your body. The muscle mass growth is way too fast for the bones to keep up with, and your tendons have a harder time. It's like using jet fuel on a Fiat 147. The overclock will work wonders for a short time, but trough mid and long term your body will start failing.

3) A thing that many, many doctors ignore is the blood/fat/water composition. Every drug you take will bind to the blood proteins and deposit in your fat deposits. If you take any kind of medicine for long enough it will deposit in your body fat deposits and steroids are particulally found of phat. This means that even if you take your time during cycles they will end up building over time.

4) Of course, you might wanna do some simple cycles. This might work fine but the results won't come as fast or as strong as they could. During a high level tournament where everybody is on their edge this would push the fighters to the edge and strongly short their "fight life span" or wathever I forgot the term.

Just think about other circunstances. Study drugs aren't forbidden and studying under the influence of one isn't considered cheating, so why isnt this the norm? Because if it was the norm we would all be addicted potheads, and because this drains way too much of your body. Sleep with diazepam at 3 am, wake up at 6 am with your amphetamines, take some prozac to nullify anxiety side effects, take some viagra to have sex under the body stress, drink alcohol to have fun! This routine is highly productive and 100% legal you could do it right now, but it would strongly strain your body and you surely would or wouldn't care but an enterprise surely would better employ a super-human than a normal living being. PEDs do the same, only that they work in a different rythm.

Now we get to ethical and practical terms.

Not everyone can use, wish to or has money to use PEDs. Simple. In a free to use enviroment this would be unfair to the ones who wish to remain clean and to see how far they can go with their own bodies. If the guys really were bothered about it, it might be easier to create two leagues, were one is ok and the other is not. And we are assuming that all these drugs are 100% ok, like, the drugs doesn't have any side effects (there is a thing called idiosincrasy, where your body simply reject something because God-knows-why), everybody is able to use them, all the doctors are following the right way to cycle et cetera
 

Damien50

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@Damien50 to answer your question of why PEDs are forbidden, one which actually is a pretty good because I remember once a colleague of mine (he is not a pharmacist, he's a biomedic. Close enough) back in 2009~2010 at the beggining of pharmacy school asked me why PED should be forbidden. His argument was that if the drugs were avaiable to everyone, then all of them would be in the same level, so it would not be unfair.

I'll not lie, and today is a rare day were i'm not feeling lazy to write, his argument was a good one. Back then I had no arguments to conclusively answer him, but after some time in college and a bit more time after that I got a few points I'd like to show:

PEDs are everywhere. From the coffee in the morning to some dude studying under the effects of methylfenidate and back in the first olympics were some runner would eat some herb and run as fast as an arrow. So, if they are so common why we think they are unhetical?

Well, since the topic was sports, we'll limit it to just this part. Let us get to the health issue first. Some might argue that under medical supervision a cycle is OK but there are various things you should consider.

1) I'll call PEDs to increase muscle mass as bombs or poison, because that's how they are called here in Brazil. You take a cycle, increase your muscle mass, spend some time, you start to lose some mass or cycle again to maintain what you already have and so on nice and steady. The problem is your body adapts to this because after all you're overclocking your body so your homones go down. The more you do this the more likely it is to your body to stop producing endogenous hormones. And it doesn't even take that much, a simple cup of coffe in the morning per example is enough to cause addiction and give you a nasty headache. A hangover is another kind of withrawal syndrome.

2) Assuming your hormones don't dissapear in oblivion, you're overclocking your body. The muscle mass growth is way too fast for the bones to keep up with, and your tendons have a harder time. It's like using jet fuel on a Fiat 147. The overclock will work wonders for a short time, but trough mid and long term your body will start failing.

3) A thing that many, many doctors ignore is the blood/fat/water composition. Every drug you take will bind to the blood proteins and deposit in your fat deposits. If you take any kind of medicine for long enough it will deposit in your body fat deposits and steroids are particulally found of phat. This means that even if you take your time during cycles they will end up building over time.

4) Of course, you might wanna do some simple cycles. This might work fine but the results won't come as fast or as strong as they could. During a high level tournament where everybody is on their edge this would push the fighters to the edge and strongly short their "fight life span" or wathever I forgot the term.

Just think about other circunstances. Study drugs aren't forbidden and studying under the influence of one isn't considered cheating, so why isnt this the norm? Because if it was the norm we would all be addicted potheads, and because this drains way too much of your body. Sleep with diazepam at 3 am, wake up at 6 am with your amphetamines, take some prozac to nullify anxiety side effects, take some viagra to have sex under the body stress, drink alcohol to have fun! This routine is highly productive and 100% legal you could do it right now, but it would strongly strain your body and you surely would or wouldn't care but an enterprise surely would better employ a super-human than a normal living being. PEDs do the same, only that they work in a different rythm.

Now we get to ethical and practical terms.

Not everyone can use, wish to or has money to use PEDs. Simple. In a free to use enviroment this would be unfair to the ones who wish to remain clean and to see how far they can go with their own bodies. If the guys really were bothered about it, it might be easier to create two leagues, were one is ok and the other is not. And we are assuming that all these drugs are 100% ok, like, the drugs doesn't have any side effects (there is a thing called idiosincrasy, where your body simply reject something because God-knows-why), everybody is able to use them, all the doctors are following the right way to cycle et cetera
I'm not saying they don't come with side effects but I don't see them as unethical or cheating. I mentioned supplements because you'll see lifters on several supplements and stimulants for various reasons to push their performance 5% but they aren't cheating and it isn't unethical. Whether the effect is real or placebo, steroids or stimulants, the PEDs don't offer a significant increase that could be ruled as unfair in my opinion rather the perception and the side effects are the problem.

I've considered PEDs before just to experience the growth but whether for professional or personal reasons I don't see it being anymore problematic than other drugs when done in an environment where a doctor/trainer can monitor and coordinate your cycles. I'm not advocating everyone get on them or down playing their side effects but their positives can't be overlooked either. As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to judge an individual at a high level four wanting that extra bit I don't fault regular gym rats for using either.
 

Mr.Anderson

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@Damien50 I understand your train of tought and I know you're not advocating anything. I think I sounded a bit harsh in my last post.

I disagree with using them in competitions but if one wants to use them outside for own personal gains and they are able to do it correctly with medical aid and are ok with the risks, well, it's not illegal and I will not judge as unhetical or anything, it's not just my vibe

[Edited to correct formating]
 
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Damien50

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@Damien50 I understand your train of tought and I know you're not advocating anything. I think I sounded a bit harsh in my last post.

I disagree with using them in competitions but if one wants to use them outside for own personal gains and they are able to do it correctly with medical aid and are ok with the risks, well, it's not illegal and I will not judge as unhetical or anything, it's not just my vibe

[Edited to correct formating]
I don't have a problem with them because most high level athletes already use them to some extent anyway. The name of the game is not getting caught and most of these coaches and trainers know how not to get caught. If everyone is going to do it anyway, because their job is to be a high level athlete, I see no reason for it to be a problem especially when there are health risk associated with using. I more so commented because there are many benefits and depending on what is used the risk can be minimal but they aren't some evil thing that deserves to be demonized.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/much-steroids-increase-hypertrophy/

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-science-of-steroids/

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/steroids-and-strength-differences/

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/steroids-for-strength-sports/
 
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Damien50

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TempestOfTempo

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I know. You already posted that you dont see a danger in them and you also dont see much benefit from them. If thats the case, not sure what their purpose is but Im not interested in using them or seeing them legalized into professional or amateur competition in any sport. So long as it doesn't effect anyone other than yourself, it doesn't matter to me if the average person uses them or not.
 

Damien50

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I know. You already posted that you dont see a danger in them and you also dont see much benefit from them. If thats the case, not sure what their purpose is but Im not interested in using them or seeing them legalized into professional or amateur competition in any sport. So long as it doesn't effect anyone other than yourself, it doesn't matter to me if the average person uses them or not.
I just wanted to share the science to support my claims. The links explain the benefits, the WADA, comparisons between athletes, etc. It's more comprehensive than just explaining steroids do but showing their purpose and more. The articles are long but interesting.
 

TempestOfTempo

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I just wanted to share the science to support my claims. The links explain the benefits, the WADA, comparisons between athletes, etc. It's more comprehensive than just explaining steroids do but showing their purpose and more. The articles are long but interesting.
I will check them out when I got a homie w/me who can break down the science behind them. Tbh, not being on them is a big advantage for me in competition. These guys "cut" 20+ pounds of water weight in a week, plus they are all juiced up on whatever they can get away with. They look like comic book superheroes and body builders. But when push comes to shove, they cant deal w/real world power and grown man strength. Although I utilize cutting edged sports performance science, I also roll w/the Lou Thez/Strangler Lewis and Jack Dempsy methods.

Sports nutrition is honestly the biggest factor I see that effects performance outside of actual training.
 

justjess

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Is there really always another option? I've had to sell in various occasions to either take care of myself or my mother at one point because I just don't make enough money despite my skills. So I pull myself up by my boot straps and deal weed so that I can pay my bills and eat because I can't strip or prostitute. Everyone has various situations where the only viable option is fast money so we don't get evicted, eat, buy our kids clothes. Not every situation is the same and not everyone only has the option to sell drugs but to a certain degree, and I think this is what tempest was getting at, the system is stacked against certain demographics more than others.

I know you're a social worker and I'm not denying your experiences but many of these communities have essentially been forced together and have these inherited traumas that are collectively stacked on each other from past generations. There may be other options but they aren't always the fastest or the best. I'm not even saying dealing is right but when the time comes these other options probably won't feed my kids in time, keep my apartment, keep my car or anything like that.
Yeah there always is another option. This is more than me talking as a social worker, as you also know my husband is a felon and grew up with many of these same issues. I’ve lived the not being able to get a job, pay the rent, feed my kids life - he can’t get a job 99% of places. I get it. I’m not just sitting here never having experienced the struggle and saying this.

Those kids growing up in low income families qualify for pell grants and pretty much free college (I did as a teenage mom because it automatically emancipated you for those purposes), they qualify for work programs they qualify for all other sorts of programs that can help them get their lives together. There is always another option. Always.

I’ve sold weed too, I’m not talking about weed. There’s a huge difference between selling weed and selling heroin laced with fentanyl.

I had a drug problem as a teenager, do you know where I copped drugs? The inner city projects, I looked twelve so I’m not sure what this “they don’t sell to kids” crap is about. They most certainly do.

I’m not understanding defending drug dealers either. Not at all. I’m actually a bit shocked.. they are a plague on society and most of all their own communities. A low paying job may not be immediate gratification but it’s honest and it isn’t poisoning anyone. Anyone can wash dishes - felony record, drug problem whatever it’s always an option. No, you won’t be driving a Cadillac or rocking $200+ Jordan’s but your conscience will be clear.
 

Damien50

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Yeah there always is another option. This is more than me talking as a social worker, as you also know my husband is a felon and grew up with many of these same issues. I’ve lived the not being able to get a job, pay the rent, feed my kids life - he can’t get a job 99% of places. I get it. I’m not just sitting here never having experienced the struggle and saying this.

Those kids growing up in low income families qualify for pell grants and pretty much free college (I did as a teenage mom because it automatically emancipated you for those purposes), they qualify for work programs they qualify for all other sorts of programs that can help them get their lives together. There is always another option. Always.

I’ve sold weed too, I’m not talking about weed. There’s a huge difference between selling weed and selling heroin laced with fentanyl.

I had a drug problem as a teenager, do you know where I copped drugs? The inner city projects, I looked twelve so I’m not sure what this “they don’t sell to kids” crap is about. They most certainly do.

I’m not understanding defending drug dealers either. Not at all. I’m actually a bit shocked.. they are a plague on society and most of all their own communities. A low paying job may not be immediate gratification but it’s honest and it isn’t poisoning anyone. Anyone can wash dishes - felony record, drug problem whatever it’s always an option. No, you won’t be driving a Cadillac or rocking $200+ Jordan’s but your conscience will be clear.
Why aren't these other options utilized more in your opinion? I wasn't aware of anything you mentioned besides Pell grants and work programs but they all take time whereas when someone needs a semi permanent solution to take care of the problems I've mentioned then the other options don't really work so well. When I was laid off this past fall, it took a month to get unemployment, a month and a half to find a job that could pay my bills, four months to catch my mortgage, two months for my car. I started the job at the wrong part of the month and missed a pay period lol. I ended up selling and caught up. I'm not justifying selling but if I had had kids I would of been selling weed the first week until I had my bills together because I couldn't get food stamps or any assistance and unemployment was playing games.

I never sold more than weed because I wasn't allowed to. To the extent I was told I would have to find my own supply and customers. Never got the experience but I didn't want it either.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Yeah there always is another option. This is more than me talking as a social worker, as you also know my husband is a felon and grew up with many of these same issues. I’ve lived the not being able to get a job, pay the rent, feed my kids life - he can’t get a job 99% of places. I get it. I’m not just sitting here never having experienced the struggle and saying this.

Those kids growing up in low income families qualify for pell grants and pretty much free college (I did as a teenage mom because it automatically emancipated you for those purposes), they qualify for work programs they qualify for all other sorts of programs that can help them get their lives together. There is always another option. Always.

I’ve sold weed too, I’m not talking about weed. There’s a huge difference between selling weed and selling heroin laced with fentanyl.

I had a drug problem as a teenager, do you know where I copped drugs? The inner city projects, I looked twelve so I’m not sure what this “they don’t sell to kids” crap is about. They most certainly do.

I’m not understanding defending drug dealers either. Not at all. I’m actually a bit shocked.. they are a plague on society and most of all their own communities. A low paying job may not be immediate gratification but it’s honest and it isn’t poisoning anyone. Anyone can wash dishes - felony record, drug problem whatever it’s always an option. No, you won’t be driving a Cadillac or rocking $200+ Jordan’s but your conscience will be clear.
I have to admit that I find it a bit offensive that you just keep pushing this idealistic, "there is always another option" line. Similar sentiments are expressed when people join gangs, but people who haven't walked in these shoes cannot truly understand what drives people to these choices. If people wish to survive in extreme environments, they cant simply impose their own morality and expect the right situation to open up because many times, life does not work that way.

On one hand, you mention your husband not being able to get a job at "99% of places" yet a few lines later you express the opinion that "Anyone can wash dishes - felony record, drug problem whatever it’s always an option" Sure, if the job exists there is a possibility they could land it, but its not realistic to compare your husband who has you for a support system and is able to live outside of these killing fields to people trapped in huge areas of cities where no obtainable jobs exists and public transportation isn't an option for employment which requires mobility.

"Those kids growing up in low income families qualify for pell grants and pretty much free college" Thats also not exactly true and once again, you are assuming the child can survive their schools and neighborhoods in order to advance to an institute of higher learning which is likely not located in the areas the live.

"I looked twelve so I’m not sure what this “they don’t sell to kids” crap is about."
Again, you are interjecting your personal, limited experiences with these situations that I actually lived through. It becomes problematic when you try to assign quotes to me that I never made. I never posted anything about "they dont sell to kids".... I stated that in my experiences it wasn't allowed, and I know there are many places like this, although with the introduction of this new music and lifestyles the lines are becoming blurred and many now break the G-Code. Its a direct result of the change in attitudes that came w/the introduction of this new music (and therefore, the new drugs as we are discussing). These were basically huge, open-air drug markets where all kind of crazy ish was going down on the regular, but dealers and gangs wouldn't sell to kids or shoot at them. Either way you typed that you looked 12, not that you actually were.

Again, a quote attributed to me which I never made. Im not "defending" drug dealers, I am posting regarding the reality of the situation.
 

justjess

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Tell me I’m wrong then. Tell me they have literally no other option. That’s a lie.

Pell grants are automatic for low income families. Community colleges and trade schools have no academic requirements to get in. Ever been in foster care? The feds will pick up your entire tab for any sort of higher education including living expenses. There is always another way, I’m sorry if that offends you. But there is. By trying to argue with me that there isn’t, you are defending drug dealers.

I was 16, still a kid.

Damien - if I had the answer to that I’d be in a very different place in life. But there is a psychological principal that says that people tend to do what’s most comfortable. Change is hard.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Tell me I’m wrong then. Tell me they have literally no other option. That’s a lie.

Pell grants are automatic for low income families. Community colleges and trade schools have no academic requirements to get in. Ever been in foster care? The feds will pick up your entire tab for any sort of higher education including living expenses. There is always another way, I’m sorry if that offends you. But there is. By trying to argue with me that there isn’t, you are defending drug dealers.

I was 16, still a kid.

Damien - if I had the answer to that I’d be in a very different place in life. But there is a psychological principal that says that people tend to do what’s most comfortable. Change is hard.
You are wrong.
If the person has no money, no job availability, no form of transportation, nothing but liquor/corner stores & churches as far as food options, no higher education facilities in the area and barely maintains their housing... how realistic is your "always another option" perspective? Most of these people are surviving on social welfare programs & whatever small hustles (legal or otherwise) they can get going. The limited resources for travel and etc. they do have are usually spent getting them to the government offices to keep their monthly benefits/section 8 & other life support systems turned on. They start selling drugs because it offers an almost immediate financial injection.

I was a ward of the state and unless things have drastically changed, the feds most certainly do NOT "pick up your entire tab for any sort of higher education including living expenses".

"By trying to argue with me that there isn’t, you are defending drug dealers."
Nope. You see this issue from a pretty simplistic set of rose-colored lenses. We can agree to disagree.
 

justjess

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Chafee grants, pell grants are federal and total 11grand a year.. most states have some additional funding available as well, and a large percentage also qualify for ovr funds as well. If that’s still not enough there are scholarships specifically for this population, subsidized federal loans Ione everyone else has to take are also available and don’t have any requirements to qualify for. Maybe these things didn’t exist when u were a kid, idk. But they do now.

I’ll give you your imagined scenario, you can have it. I could sit here and argue every last point but I don’t have the patience or the will, so we will assume from there. Guess what? There’s still other options. You could always sell your ass/sexual favors instead. Atleast that way you are only harming yourself.

The key word in all you said above is IMMEDIATE and that’s the problem. Everyone wants immediate gratification - it’s why people sell drugs and it’s why people use drugs. We are an adhd culture and it’s pathetic.
 
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