*graphic*stevie Steve: Cleveland Shooter

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

There have been reports lately of people on Facebook live saying they will go to 'x' business and are going to start shooting or killing people.

 

[rainerann]

There have been reports lately of people on Facebook live saying they will go to 'x' business and are going to start shooting or killing people.

People are acting so crazy. I can't quite understand it all.

 

[Haich]

End of times people, complete bloodshed everywhere and this pathetic coward goes and shoots an innocent elderly man...over a chick?

Who breaks up with someone and shoots people? Some seriously screwed up idiot glad he's gone hope he rots in his grave

He didn't go up to someone his size he had to go to a defenceless old man, for those who haven't watched it don't, it's just too sad I don't know why I clicked it...

 

[Haich]

America really has to revise their gun laws quacks like this are roaming around with firearms daily, how many more have to be killed before something is done?

 

[Leviathan]

I don't see the point of killing an innocent stranger if he was going to kill himself anyways. If the ultimate plan was to commit suicide, why wouldn't he do that before his act of murder? I don't mean that I condone suicide but there was no reason he should've done what he did. What is going on in this world that is making everyone want to kill each other? It makes me afraid to even step outside the house.

I've seen several people on social media trying to call it a false flag but I don't know that I necessarily believe that. I think it's a coping mechanism. Sometimes it helps people get through the day to believe nothing bad really happens and that everything is a setup rather than accept how cruel and ugly people can really be to each other.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

America really has to revise their gun laws quacks like this are roaming around with firearms daily, how many more have to be killed before something is done?

It's not an issue of gun laws. He could have as easily stabbed or beaten the man.

His mother said he was a good Christian with gambling issues. Good Christians gamble and cause senseless murder? Whatever.

@rainerann
They are the reason I blew my 401k to move to the country. The video causes me to remember why I remain armed unfortunately.

 

[Haich]

It's not an issue of gun laws. He could have as easily stabbed or beaten the man.

His mother said he was a good Christian with gambling issues. Good Christians gamble and cause senseless murder? Whatever.

@rainerann
They are the reason I blew my 401k to move to the country. The video causes me to remember why I remain armed unfortunately.

Well you have a gun like you stated so of course you won't believe there needs to be more gun regulation.

 

[rainerann]

Well you have a gun like you stated so of course you won't believe there needs to be more gun regulation.

Most of the country already has some pretty strict gun regulations that include a background check before all these shootings became an issue. Gun laws have always existed to ensure that gun owners were responsible people. I have no problem with the present regulations. I don't think they are creating the problem. Increasing regulation at this point almost requires being able to predict someone's behavior. This would be like conspiracy fiction where people are arrested for thought crime and whatnot.

Therefore, I don't think our gun regulations need to change. I think our culture needs to change. I think most of our problems have economic solutions or that there is a way to create economic incentives that would change our culture for the better. However, you would have to remove the Federal Reserve to do this. Nevertheless, money is a great motivator and the economy affects everyone more than the judicial system. People could theoretically go their whole lives without having an experience with the judicial system, but everyone will be affected by the way the economy works. So it would make sense to utilize the economy to help create a healthy culture.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

Well you have a gun like you stated so of course you won't believe there needs to be more gun regulation.

In countries where guns aren't allowed what's the most used weapon? Typically blades or fist. The issue is that he assaulted the man, the murder weapon is irrelevant, with the intent to murder is the issue.

He could have just stabbed him or beaten him or choked him but for some reason he shot him, probably because it was less personal, and everyone is triggered by the firearm first and the lunatic second. Let's say he was in a country where firearms are banned and he choked him to death while Facebook's watchers saw the man claw for life. The murder is still a murder regardless of the method.

I'm not bias towards gun ownership but many that trigger from it seem to have never handled them and or are just ignorant in regards to ownership laws and firearms in general.

So my question to you is, if the gun laws were tightened and he had beaten and stabbed him, do we ban knuckles and knives and subsequently force everyone to wear boxing gloves? Then people will be kicked to death.

You can't stop murder no matter how many laws you have.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

Most of the country already has some pretty strict gun regulations that include a background check before all these shootings became an issue. Gun laws have always existed to ensure that gun owners were responsible people. I have no problem with the present regulations. I don't think they are creating the problem. Increasing regulation at this point almost requires being able to predict someone's behavior. This would be like conspiracy fiction where people are arrested for thought crime and whatnot.

Therefore, I don't think our gun regulations need to change. I think our culture needs to change. I think most of our problems have economic solutions or that there is a way to create economic incentives that would change our culture for the better. However, you would have to remove the Federal Reserve to do this. Nevertheless, money is a great motivator and the economy affects everyone more than the judicial system. People could theoretically go their whole lives without having an experience with the judicial system, but everyone will be affected by the way the economy works. So it would make sense to utilize the economy to help create a healthy culture.

Can't out legislate crazy

 

[Loki]

In countries where guns aren't allowed what's the most used weapon? Typically blades or fist. The issue is that he assaulted the man, the murder weapon is irrelevant, with the intent to murder is the issue.

He could have just stabbed him or beaten him or choked him but for some reason he shot him, probably because it was less personal, and everyone is triggered by the firearm first and the lunatic second. Let's say he was in a country where firearms are banned and he choked him to death while Facebook's watchers saw the man claw for life. The murder is still a murder regardless of the method.

I'm not bias towards gun ownership but many that trigger from it seem to have never handled them and or are just ignorant in regards to ownership laws and firearms in general.

So my question to you is, if the gun laws were tightened and he had beaten and stabbed him, do we ban knuckles and knives and subsequently force everyone to wear boxing gloves? Then people will be kicked to death.

You can't stop murder no matter how many laws you have.

I'm not pro-gun by any means. Personally, I think as a species we should round them all up and melt them all down. However, one day I will likely own one as a means of protection because that's just the world we live in and it isn't going to change.

I tend to take issue, though, with the argument of "Well, if he didn't have a gun he would have just murdered him another way!" Yeah, probably he would have, he specifically picked an unsuspecting and clearly weaker target. However, knives and fists not only require you to be up close and personal, but they have a far lower likelihood that the target will die than guns do, and on top of that if someone comes at your with a knife or barehands running from them is a valid option or maybe even fighting back; both are still options with guns but not great options at all comparatively. While I agree that guns are tools and it is the handlers that are the true issue, we can't ignore that guns are tools designed specifically for killing things as efficiently as possible. There is no other use for a gun, much like say a spear or a battleaxe. If guns weren't so prevalent of course there would still be crazy people and those crazy people would still manage to murder people, but it certainly wouldn't be as easy as it is now with the aid of weapons that don't require much knowledge or skill beyond being able to point and shoot from a medium range in most cases. (For the record, I've fired only two different pistols personally, and I was a decent shot once I got over the anxiety of pulling the trigger the first time)

In my personal opinion, guns should have only ever been allowed for hunting or home defense. If you are seen with a gun outside of those two areas they can arrest you and take away your gun and your right to own one. Of course it's too late for that now, so it's a useless opinion, but that is how it should have been.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

I'm not pro-gun by any means. Personally, I think as a species we should round them all up and melt them all down. However, one day I will likely own one as a means of protection because that's just the world we live in and it isn't going to change.

I tend to take issue, though, with the argument of "Well, if he didn't have a gun he would have just murdered him another way!" Yeah, probably he would have, he specifically picked an unsuspecting and clearly weaker target. However, knives and fists not only require you to be up close and personal, but they have a far lower likelihood that the target will die than guns do, and on top of that if someone comes at your with a knife or barehands running from them is a valid option or maybe even fighting back; both are still options with guns but not great options at all comparatively. While I agree that guns are tools and it is the handlers that are the true issue, we can't ignore that guns are tools designed specifically for killing things as efficiently as possible. There is no other use for a gun, much like say a spear or a battleaxe. If guns weren't so prevalent of course there would still be crazy people and those crazy people would still manage to murder people, but it certainly wouldn't be as easy as it is now with the aid of weapons that don't require much knowledge or skill beyond being able to point and shoot from a medium range in most cases. (For the record, I've fired only two different pistols personally, and I was a decent shot once I got over the anxiety of pulling the trigger the first time)

In my personal opinion, guns should have only ever been allowed for hunting or home defense. If you are seen with a gun outside of those two areas they can arrest you and take away your gun and your right to own one. Of course it's too late for that now, so it's a useless opinion, but that is how it should have been.

Don't get me wrong, he might not have killed him if he didn't have the gun, but I'm not saying he would or wouldn't have just that scenario could have been different. And because of this scenario that played out everyone got triggered because there was a firearm involved.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said honestly and they are fair points just anything could have been different in this situation and could have still resulted in a homicide.

 

[Loki]

Don't get me wrong, he might not have killed him if he didn't have the gun, but I'm not saying he would or wouldn't have just that scenario could have been different. And because of this scenario that played out everyone got triggered because there was a firearm involved.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said honestly and they are fair points just anything could have been different in this situation and could have still resulted in a homicide.

Agreed. I honestly haven't really seen any gun backlash this time, but I mostly avoid social media really. Had it been a shooting spree again (not that there isn't one every week or so it seems) then I wouldn't doubt at all that the anti-gun protests would be back en force.

 

[Haich]

I guess my response to this incident is pretty biased since I'm not pro guns anyway. I mean this guy was a nut job so I'm not saying we should ban guns because guys like these commit heinous crimes, that would be ridiculous it's impossible to monitor people with firearms.

My stance is guns cause a lot more damage to society when they're legalised. There's a sense of lawlessness and freedom to 'protect' oneself from people and it encourages suspicion and paranoia amongst citizens. There's plenty of ways to defend yourself from intruders and shooting them down doesn't do anything it just normalises violence. I live in the UK and we're pretty much gun free except from the drug gangs who smuggle arms from Eastern Europe.

With regards to this crazed individual, don't you think it is better to control guns than to give idiots like this an excuse to shoot people up?

It's not a question of stopping murder that will never happen, but we can lessen the tools which we use at our disposal.

The thing is I'm probably quite ignorant to the situation in the US. By that I mean I'm sure there's a reason people feel threatened and want to arm themselves especially in a country as vast as it is. I just don't think we can trust people with guns despite the checks that are carried out a moment of madness will turn a sane man into a killer a

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

I guess my response to this incident is pretty biased since I'm not pro guns anyway. I mean this guy was a nut job so I'm not saying we should ban guns because guys like these commit heinous crimes, that would be ridiculous it's impossible to monitor people with firearms.

My stance is guns cause a lot more damage to society when they're legalised. There's a sense of lawlessness and freedom to 'protect' oneself from people and it encourages suspicion and paranoia amongst citizens. There's plenty of ways to defend yourself from intruders and shooting them down doesn't do anything it just normalises violence. I live in the UK and we're pretty much gun free except from the drug gangs who smuggle arms from Eastern Europe.

With regards to this crazed individual, don't you think it is better to control guns than to give idiots like this an excuse to shoot people up?

It's not a question of stopping murder that will never happen, but we can lessen the tools which we use at our disposal.

The thing is I'm probably quite ignorant to the situation in the US. By that I mean I'm sure there's a reason people feel threatened and want to arm themselves especially in a country as vast as it is. I just don't think we can trust people with guns despite the checks that are carried out a moment of madness will turn a sane man into a killer a

I'm more so with @rainerann . The gun and guns in general aren't the issue. This individual snapped mentally and choose to assault someone.

How do we as society help keep people mentally stable and so on to prevent people from harming themselves and others?

Let's be honest, there's scores of regulation for auto drivers yet death still occurs when someone gets behind the wheel. Another point is I think a good chunk of people rarely feel genuinely scared for their lives, I have been before growing up where I did, and don't feel an urge to protect themselves or others. People expect the law and officers to provide safety but ultimately it is the individuals responsibility and should be a right to protect themself.

I'm not contending that guns aren't meant to kill but excess legislation to band aid a broken society isn't the solution. Not everyone gets to live free of fear for themselves and personal property and overall what they consider precious in life.

 

[williejonesjr]

It's not an issue of gun laws. He could have as easily stabbed or beaten the man.

His mother said he was a good Christian with gambling issues. Good Christians gamble and cause senseless murder? Whatever.

@rainerann
They are the reason I blew my 401k to move to the country. The video causes me to remember why I remain armed unfortunately.

Stabbing & beating makes it "personal" He also could have run him over with his car. Less personal. Semantics.

Let's just be happy that this particular incident has been stopped.

 

[williejonesjr]

There have been reports lately of people on Facebook live saying they will go to 'x' business and are going to start shooting or killing people.

I sure hope not.

 

[mecca]

The thing is I'm probably quite ignorant to the situation in the US. By that I mean I'm sure there's a reason people feel threatened and want to arm themselves especially in a country as vast as it is.

The black panthers exercised their gun rights. That was very important at the time.